Joseph Dell
Enthusiast
I got 5 bucks on JD beating Roof to the nines.
I'm up for a challenge anytime!
JD
I'm up for a challenge anytime!
JD
Uppity Supercharged Vipers!!!
- Thread starter treynor
- Start date
Dr Roof
Enthusiast
the only way it could be better if we were racing and both got a 9.
Gerald
Enthusiast
I'm still shootin' for 12's.
Joseph Dell
Enthusiast
I once put my car in the 12s... but that was when I raced mustangs...
JD
JD
Paolo Castellano
Enthusiast
I love this thread. This is where the real men are hanging out! 900hp and looking for more - you won't see this stuff on the Honda Civic forum
Mark - a 700hp WRX? If you ever find one, I'd like to hear about it. 550hp is about the limit for those flat fours before they start grenading. Someone may get past that for a little while, but not for long I reckon. Still your point was they are good across an intersection. No arguement there - my old Subaru could pull 1.07g in first gear with its AWD. Not bad for a 2 litre four!
Our top local Nissan Skyline is running their 2.6 litre GTR at 8.95 sec at 156mph. It makes much less torque as it revs to 10,000, but makes about 950hp at the crank. AWD makes for a good 60ft. The **** have got 1350hp out of them and run solid 7's in a Skyline and 6's in a lightweight car.
Guys - someone on this board has got a sub 1.4 second 60 foot out of their Viper. That's incredible. I'd make friends with that guy and pick his brain for all its worth. If you can get the weight onto the back wheels and keep the tire planted flat, the 9's will come. It may require changing shocks (at least settings) and spring rates for the track...in fact I'm almost certain of it. It may be you can get adjustability built into the cars so you don't have to physically rip it all out just for a weekends play. The old 90/10 shocks for the front trick can help. Soft rear springs may not be needed with a stiff body and massive power.... it's all about experiementing - that's why I'd get around the guy getting 1.37 60 footers..... they've obviously hit the mark. They probably run close to zero camber and toe in plus a skinnier front tire too?
Anyone topping 150mph has enough power to run a sub nine (about 8.9's based upon trap speeds to drag cars here). That would not be possible in a street Viper, but getting a 60 footer around 1.4 will definitely get you a 9. Hope the trans holds! A 1.6 is a really a good time.... after that its some serious chassis tuning... and sticky tires, obviously not street Pilots!
As for torque vs hp - they're both related over a factor of 5252. Hp and rpms and gears vs torque and lower rpms, less gear etc. Same difference. The NO2 just spins the engine slower to make the torque. The SC needs more rpms to make more hp to make up for the lower torque... but can run more gear to make up the torque.... same end result.
I don't know why anyone isn't running 4.1:1 rear gears - tall gears (anything in the 3's)with big power spins tires worse than low gearing (4:1+) in my experience. The lower rear end gears match the engine speed to tire speed much quicker, whereas the tall rear gears (like stock ratios)are easily overpowered as the engine rpms force the tires to catch up. With a 0.5:1 6th gear - it'd still run just 1700rpm at 60-65mph depending on tire choice. Just my thoughts... with steep gears, you will however be changing gears like men demented
SO NOS has done it, twin turbos (my favourite power source) have done it, who is gonna take the first SC Viper without NOS into the 9's?
My guess is several of you are going to do it - the one closest to a warmer climate will probably be first
Good luck guys, we can't wait to hear the results.
I just have to say I love every post torquemonster makes: He says the coolest ****!
I believe Tom Welch has run the 1.37 60' time. I also think that the nitrous cars can leave the line balls out on almost stock power to hook up. Then Tommy hits the gas and is gone.........
I do however, know of one supercharged viper that should have close to or better than 900 RWLBS/FT (without funny gas or unnatural amounts of boost) that is coming out soon...... It already has a stiff chassis, full roll cage and adjustable shocks. It's kind of a shame the owner could care a less for the 1/4 mile though. I also have a prediction that it will take more than just these aforementioned things and more HP to be king of the hill. Heffner and his top secret development team have a few more tricks up their sleeve to keep things interesting to say the least.
Paolo Castellano
Enthusiast
Wayne, I am anxiously looking foreward to seeing the results of supercharging the baddest a$$ NA motor so far. I am not entirely convinced the Lethal 750 is a natural platform to add a supercharger: The Lethal 750 is the most powerful NA Viper motor so far(Even more powerful than Lingenfelter). But all the things that make the most NA power do not have the same advantage in the adding on of a supercharger application. How will you be modifying the Lethal 750 package to make the serious power you are hoping for? I would assume that dropping the compression ratio would most definitely lower the tremendous power output of the the Lethal 750. When you first mentioned this a few weeks ago, I became fascinated as to exactly how one would go about doing this to that type of motor...I have asked you about this before and you must have gone on vacation or something. Gimme the scoop!
GASDOC
Enthusiast
Since I have cast pistons in my 2001,I can't bump up the boost much or go nuts with NOS to keep up with you guys ..So...maybe this will work.Where do I go to dyno it??
Paolo Castellano
Enthusiast
Snake 505, I agree with you 100%. It would be great to have a get together for all to attend. We could have a closed track and have some fun!
2BADD 4U
Enthusiast
Hey Guys...not to rain on your party, but the FASTEST VIPERS IN THE WORLD ARE RIGHT HERE IN PA. There are 2 right now and a third soon. 1100 RWHP and 1200 RWHP!
Oh , and by the way one of them is THE "FIRST AND ONLY" VIPER TO RUN 9's "WITHOUT NOS"!!! And has 300 RWHP left in it! This Viper WILL BREAK ALL THE RECORDS, and WILL be running HIGH 8's by the Summer!!! This has been low- keyed so far, but you will find out SOON!!!
NO Flame intended....JUST THE FACTS!!!
Best,Dave
Oh , and by the way one of them is THE "FIRST AND ONLY" VIPER TO RUN 9's "WITHOUT NOS"!!! And has 300 RWHP left in it! This Viper WILL BREAK ALL THE RECORDS, and WILL be running HIGH 8's by the Summer!!! This has been low- keyed so far, but you will find out SOON!!!
NO Flame intended....JUST THE FACTS!!!
Best,Dave
Dr Roof
Enthusiast
[******] Twin Turbo's?
Dr Roof
Enthusiast
It would be nice to see all this back patting and dillusions of grandure settled at the same track and same dyno at the same time.
[/QUOTE]
I am working on that right Now! It is time for a shoot out. Centrally located Bowling Green, KY Beech Bend Raceway. More info first of next week.
[/QUOTE]
I am working on that right Now! It is time for a shoot out. Centrally located Bowling Green, KY Beech Bend Raceway. More info first of next week.
Paolo-
Good questions. I may have missed your post you refer to earlier.
To keep it brief....out LETHAL 1000 does use all of the components of the LETHAL 750. We do use a different cam profile (no added cost) and we do modify the compression ratio. However, if you remember from our last post updating the numbers of our LETHAL 750 package with our new, exclusive headers and camshaft we were able to achieve over 670rwhp. After modifying the compression ratio, we still have an EXCELLENT platform for supercharging....a bulletproof engine!!!
With very minimal amounts of boost (around 5 lbs)we are able to make the necessary power. As I mentioned in an earlier post, this is VERY important to the overall package. With only 5lbs boost, this means we DO NOT have to use an intercooler which saves significant installation time and modifications. The heat generated by boost is minimized and makes it an ideal application for the street, strip, and track.
Hope this answers your questions.
-Wayne
Good questions. I may have missed your post you refer to earlier.
To keep it brief....out LETHAL 1000 does use all of the components of the LETHAL 750. We do use a different cam profile (no added cost) and we do modify the compression ratio. However, if you remember from our last post updating the numbers of our LETHAL 750 package with our new, exclusive headers and camshaft we were able to achieve over 670rwhp. After modifying the compression ratio, we still have an EXCELLENT platform for supercharging....a bulletproof engine!!!
With very minimal amounts of boost (around 5 lbs)we are able to make the necessary power. As I mentioned in an earlier post, this is VERY important to the overall package. With only 5lbs boost, this means we DO NOT have to use an intercooler which saves significant installation time and modifications. The heat generated by boost is minimized and makes it an ideal application for the street, strip, and track.
Hope this answers your questions.
-Wayne
Paolo Castellano
Enthusiast
2BADD, this is very interesting. Who is the tuner doing the turbos? Is this the one that went nines with an auto tranny? I'll have to go through Pennsylvania on my way home from Heffner's when I pick up my car. I would love to see what you've got! The only flames you will get from me will be the ones coming out of my side exhaust!
P.S. How about posting some dyno sheets?
Paolo Castellano
Enthusiast
Wayne, it looks like it should be good! Good luck!
Daffy Duck Viper
Enthusiast
Is this a turbo setup then? Or a supercharger setup? I saw no mention of turbos in 2BADD 4U's post.
-Daffy
Paolo Castellano
Enthusiast
Daffy, I am assuming that it has to be a turbo as there has not been one supercharged Viper in the nines on boost only.
Daffy Duck Viper
Enthusiast
Oh. Got it, Paolo. Thanks. I was just excited over the idea of there being another system out there that I had not heard of - what with my extensive note-keeping and all, you know. Heh. Mustn't miss a speck of information. *grin*
-Daffy
OrecaGTS-R/T
Enthusiast
Yikes, didn't realise how fast the [******] cars have been running! From what I understand, this is what i've compiled so far.
Terry Rout's Venom 1000TT ran 9.79@145 on motor only with an auto tranny
Jamie Parkers Venom 1000TT has ran 9.52@156 (has previously dynoed 1030rwhp that included 150 shot of NOS) but not sure what setup was used for the run.
Ed Illgens Venom 800TT ran 9.99@138 (as tested by Motor Trend magazine last year)
Rowan.
Terry Rout's Venom 1000TT ran 9.79@145 on motor only with an auto tranny
Jamie Parkers Venom 1000TT has ran 9.52@156 (has previously dynoed 1030rwhp that included 150 shot of NOS) but not sure what setup was used for the run.
Ed Illgens Venom 800TT ran 9.99@138 (as tested by Motor Trend magazine last year)
Rowan.
Paolo Castellano
Enthusiast
Rowan, I do not like the idea of putting an auto tranny in the Viper. I also do not care much for the 1/4 mile either. The auto tranny makes it MUCH easier to hook up and get into the nines.
Jamie Parker's 156 MPH was on the N20 and 14-15 PSI from what I understand.
Ed Illgens' 9.99 @ 138's MPH has been eclipsed by Gary Almond's Heffner supercharged car running less boost AND on radials @ 142 MPH(The ET was not in the nines, but the MPH was faster)
Heffner is coming out with lots more power and once it gets warmer, I am sure he will be taking it to the track......
One thing for sure is that this is going to be a hell of an interesting year.
Paul Fischer
Enthusiast
When you guys are ready to put the pedal down a little longer than just 9 seconds give Ella Samaron at the Continental/General Tire Test Facility in Uvalde, Texas (west of San Antonio) a call at 1-830-591-7064. They have a 8.5 mile oval that brings new meaning to high speed weekend. If I recall correctly the radius of the corners is 4 miles with one mile straights between. My car's 3:45 diff and aero mods limited it to low 170's but if you've got the stones the sky's the limit.
Ella will give you all the scheduling and insurance info you need. Have fun!
Ella will give you all the scheduling and insurance info you need. Have fun!
Paolo Castellano
Enthusiast
Paul, Now that's what I am talking about! => This could, in my opinion, be the best post I have ever seen on the Viper Board! I have the stones and the car(actually, I will have the car shortly) to do some big #'s. Heffner is working on a few more things for my car and a few more parts have to come in. I will give Ella a call!
Tom86ZT
Enthusiast
Now you've done it. You've gave Paolo a chance to technically prove what his car is gonna be able of. Rest asshured, he has the balls to push it, I know, as does every other CAR driver in chicago. Ask him about his story a couple years ago in the snow on some on ramps. Yes, I said in the snow (or at least sub zero temps).
To reiterrate what everyone else has said. This will be a awesome year.
Tom
To reiterrate what everyone else has said. This will be a awesome year.
Tom
Paolo Castellano
Enthusiast
Tom, I drove my Viper to the Detroit Auto Show a few years back and picked up my friend Don Sleik and his girlfriend Jennifer AND their luggage at the Detroit Metro Airport. I used my experience in the moving business to fit everything and everyone into the Viper. You should have seen the VCA Guys faces when we all piled out of the Viper! Priceless! Back to the matter at hand though: When we had those mild winters(with very little or no salt) a few years ago I used to drive may car in the cold weather. In 30 below my car felt like it made 1000 RWHP! Maybe that's a slight exaggeration, but it really did feel zippy in the cold.
Tom86ZT
Enthusiast
Yeah Paolo,
Next time just use one of those moving trucks you got, just kidding. Although that would make for a great company viper moving. Not a company for moving vipers, but a company that uses vipers to move merchandise. OK its not a good idea, but see it would work.
Tom
Next time just use one of those moving trucks you got, just kidding. Although that would make for a great company viper moving. Not a company for moving vipers, but a company that uses vipers to move merchandise. OK its not a good idea, but see it would work.
Tom
treynor
Enthusiast
> Ed Illgens' 9.99 @ 138's MPH has been eclipsed by Gary
> Almond's Heffner supercharged car running less boost AND
> on radials @ 142 MPH(The ET was not in the nines, but
> the MPH was faster)
FWIW, my yellow RT has run 10.45 @ 143.3 without Nitrous. That was with ET streets rather than radials.
> Almond's Heffner supercharged car running less boost AND
> on radials @ 142 MPH(The ET was not in the nines, but
> the MPH was faster)
FWIW, my yellow RT has run 10.45 @ 143.3 without Nitrous. That was with ET streets rather than radials.
Torquemonster
Enthusiast
Wow! That's a serious oval! Paolo - just make sure you run nice new tires that are up to it - I'd hate anything to happen to you. Owen Evans over here ran the NZ land speed record on a public road to 370kph then got a blow out - it wasn't pretty on National TV... cartwheeled like you wouldn't believe... but our black top roads are very coarse chip and that would be tough on tires. Owen survived, they sewed his arm back on and he can race again. He had a 700+hp Porsche Turbo road race car. Apparently two runs back to back got the tire too hot.
The oval should have a smooth surface and that'll be better on tires.... just choose ones that the manufacturer will support at that speed. The guys that run 200mph+ at Silverstate may have some good input too.... 200mph+ is not to be taken lightly... but I'm sure you knew that and will create some stunning news with your upcoming beast.
re the turbine type blowers - why not run two - like the twin turbo setups? Advantage = smaller pumps = better low down torque to compensate for the design disadvantage at lower rpms, and still maintaining the top end power from having two 600hp units. No more plumbing or complications than TT.
As for NO intercooling and 5psi - well, that's one road.... but guys... life begins at 1 bar! You can't say you've really experienced real boost until you've gone over 1 bar... I know, I know, they make so much power under that you can't use it.... but that's power - I'm talking about boost. Intercooled high boost is an immense rush and low boost is a totally different animal - not comparable. I've ridden in 55psi on blown alcohol - now THAT was serious boost! 0-100 mph under 2 seconds!
What do you think about twin smaller 600hp units with full intercooling and pulleys to run from 5psi to 15psi? I still think the 4:1+ rear gears are the go for the 1/4. The fact that 3.45 may spin more than 3.08 etc is not a guide as the gap is too close. It's a big step to the 4's and they seem to match engine speeds quicker at the track on ET's. Not sure if the trans will handle the massive torque increase from steep gears.... only one way to find out.
The oval should have a smooth surface and that'll be better on tires.... just choose ones that the manufacturer will support at that speed. The guys that run 200mph+ at Silverstate may have some good input too.... 200mph+ is not to be taken lightly... but I'm sure you knew that and will create some stunning news with your upcoming beast.
re the turbine type blowers - why not run two - like the twin turbo setups? Advantage = smaller pumps = better low down torque to compensate for the design disadvantage at lower rpms, and still maintaining the top end power from having two 600hp units. No more plumbing or complications than TT.
As for NO intercooling and 5psi - well, that's one road.... but guys... life begins at 1 bar!
You can't say you've really experienced real boost until you've gone over 1 bar... I know, I know, they make so much power under that you can't use it.... but that's power - I'm talking about boost. Intercooled high boost is an immense rush and low boost is a totally different animal - not comparable. I've ridden in 55psi on blown alcohol - now THAT was serious boost! 0-100 mph under 2 seconds!What do you think about twin smaller 600hp units with full intercooling and pulleys to run from 5psi to 15psi? I still think the 4:1+ rear gears are the go for the 1/4. The fact that 3.45 may spin more than 3.08 etc is not a guide as the gap is too close. It's a big step to the 4's and they seem to match engine speeds quicker at the track on ET's. Not sure if the trans will handle the massive torque increase from steep gears.... only one way to find out.
Chuck B 98 GTS
Enthusiast
That's what I'm talk'in aboutAs for NO intercooling and 5psi - well, that's one road.... but guys... life begins at 1 bar!
Paolo Castellano
Enthusiast
Wow! That's a serious oval! Paolo - just make sure you run nice new tires that are up to it - I'd hate anything to happen to you. Owen Evans over here ran the NZ land speed record on a public road to 370kph then got a blow out - it wasn't pretty on National TV... cartwheeled like you wouldn't believe... but our black top roads are very coarse chip and that would be tough on tires. Owen survived, they sewed his arm back on and he can race again. He had a 700+hp Porsche Turbo road race car. Apparently two runs back to back got the tire too hot.
The oval should have a smooth surface and that'll be better on tires.... just choose ones that the manufacturer will support at that speed. The guys that run 200mph+ at Silverstate may have some good input too.... 200mph+ is not to be taken lightly... but I'm sure you knew that and will create some stunning news with your upcoming beast.
re the turbine type blowers - why not run two - like the twin turbo setups? Advantage = smaller pumps = better low down torque to compensate for the design disadvantage at lower rpms, and still maintaining the top end power from having two 600hp units. No more plumbing or complications than TT.
As for NO intercooling and 5psi - well, that's one road.... but guys... life begins at 1 bar!
What do you think about twin smaller 600hp units with full intercooling and pulleys to run from 5psi to 15psi? I still think the 4:1+ rear gears are the go for the 1/4. The fact that 3.45 may spin more than 3.08 etc is not a guide as the gap is too close. It's a big step to the 4's and they seem to match engine speeds quicker at the track on ET's. Not sure if the trans will handle the massive torque increase from steep gears.... only one way to find out.
Torquemonster, Owen is lucky to have survived a 230 MPH crash to say the least. I was reading the March 2000 Motortrend which had Lingenfelter's 226 MPH TT Vette on the cover. They used specially x-rayed pilots for the job. I would do nothing less. What I do not know is if there are tires available that can handle the 200+ speeds. I know that the YR rating is only good for 186 MPH. I think that is for some extended period of time with a certain weight car. I do not think that the LPE Vette is significantly lighter than the Viper as far as load would be concerned(To quote Mark Wahlberg in "Rock Star"_, "Loaads of it-Tons!"=> Wait, I think we are talking about different kinds of loads even though tons are involved!LOL!) The 335/35/17 Pilot Sport has a load rating of 2094 lbs/tire and the 345/35/18 has a load rating of 2271 lbs/tire. Lingenfelter ran narrower tires 235/35/18 fronts, 1356# rating/tire and 275/35/18 rears, 1700# rating/tire.
Lingenfelter ran on a 32 degree banking: Do you know how to calculate the extra load/gravity assisted downforce resulting from the 32 degree banking? If you add up the weight bearing aspect of the 4 tires on the LPE Vette, you get about 6112 lbs. A 3300# Vette, 200 lb driver, and at least 150 lbs of fuel makes 3650 LBS. So I am assuming 6112/3650 = 1.6745 G's would hypothetically make the LPE Vette equal the load carrying potential of the tires. Now it you take the 345/35/18's 2271# capacity and the 275/40/18's 1709# capacity, you would have 7960# capacity for the tires carrying the Viper. Now if my car weighs 3500# with the rollcage, 200 for me wearing all the necessary safety equipment, 150# of fuel you get 3850#, 7960/3850 = 2.068 G's to hypothetically equal the tire's weight bearing capacities. I know that weight bearing and heat dissipation vs speed are two different things.
Do run-flats have better or worse heat dissipation characteristics? I would imagine that the thicker sidewalls could provide a greater surface area medium to dissipate the heat with all other things being equal. I have made some preliminary calls to tire manufacturers regarding the possibility of there being a tire that is designed to go 200+ for a car of this weight and they said there is nothing of the sort. Does antbody have any suggestions?
Torquemonster
Enthusiast
Paolo: Do run-flats have better or worse heat dissipation characteristics? I would imagine that the thicker sidewalls could provide a greater surface area medium to dissipate the heat with all other things being equal. I have made some preliminary calls to tire manufacturers regarding the possibility of there being a tire that is designed to go 200+ for a car of this weight and they said there is nothing of the sort. Does antbody have any suggestions?
TM: mmmm... pass. You are into one of my many areas of incomptetence... but you are doing the right things... sounds to me like the tire companies are covering their butts. Every race car at Le Mans has to run 200+mph lap after lap, Indy cars have to run it consistently, the Silverstate Classic top cars, the Bugatti Veyron! etc etc.... so there are obviously tires that are up to it... The question is the weight I guess, but you are unlikely to have enough down force to generate 2g. Why not find out who that guy is that averaged 200mph at the Silverstate Classic - I'm sure he'd be helpful. there's also a Mustang running 200mph and I think their website is www.200mph.com from memory - not sure but if interested I'll find it as they seemed really helpful about the things to watch for re holding that speed... good video download of them cruising at 200mph on the road too!
Let me know and I'll track down their site if the one above doesn't work. You really need to talk to people who have done it in something similar... for that matter there are some Viper guys who have gone 200+mph on pavement... you know who I'm sure they'd be happy to share their experience re tires. No one wants to see anyone get hurt, I'd expect the 200mph+ club will be pretty hepful to you. Let us know what you find out - Im sure others will be interested... maybe Ben and a few others would like to join you at the oval?
TM: mmmm... pass. You are into one of my many areas of incomptetence...
but you are doing the right things... sounds to me like the tire companies are covering their butts. Every race car at Le Mans has to run 200+mph lap after lap, Indy cars have to run it consistently, the Silverstate Classic top cars, the Bugatti Veyron! etc etc.... so there are obviously tires that are up to it... The question is the weight I guess, but you are unlikely to have enough down force to generate 2g. Why not find out who that guy is that averaged 200mph at the Silverstate Classic - I'm sure he'd be helpful. there's also a Mustang running 200mph and I think their website is www.200mph.com from memory - not sure but if interested I'll find it as they seemed really helpful about the things to watch for re holding that speed... good video download of them cruising at 200mph on the road too!Let me know and I'll track down their site if the one above doesn't work. You really need to talk to people who have done it in something similar... for that matter there are some Viper guys who have gone 200+mph on pavement... you know who
I'm sure they'd be happy to share their experience re tires. No one wants to see anyone get hurt, I'd expect the 200mph+ club will be pretty hepful to you. Let us know what you find out - Im sure others will be interested... maybe Ben and a few others would like to join you at the oval? 
