VCA back to the same old routine

[TrackAire]

How did Dan assist Lee is suspending Randall and Jim? Remember, Maurice was technically not suspended. Lee had executive power to do it himself. This is something we are correcting in revised bylaws.

The letter from Chrysler clearly states that there is a conflict of interest. Having C2C no longer manage the club gets rid of this conflict of interest and in accordance to the letter from Chrysler, satisfies them.

The magazines have been fine. In fact they have been much better than they were a few years ago. Everyone should enjoy the content of the magazine that is at printers. If you are referring to lack of magazine distribution, previous *** voted to delay magazines and instead pay regional stipends.

I just checked the National Officers Section of the web site. Lee has not posted in there since 8/21/13. So you comment that he is posting is *** section is wrong and untruthful.

To my knowledge, Tim Wolleson is not getting checks from VCA. When he was a board member he secured a lease for storage of manufacturing equipment. We are paying rent to store molds and manufacturing equipment. Tim should not be making any money on this. If he is, it's a issue for me as well.

As far as making changes, we are. Have enough been made yet? Absolutely not, but it's a start. It has taken a lot of years to get VCA to lowest point it was recently and it will take a while to get everything fixed. We probably don't have all the facts and truthfully we probably never will get all the facts. But rest assured, we are acting in what's in the Regional Presidents and members best interests.

ViperJohn,

Regardless of what else was going on, the conflicts of interest, wrongful moderation, **** style suspensions, etc,....the fact remains that the club is broke per your statement that the magazine was shelved so there would be some monies to pay the regions stipends...and from what region presidents are saying, those stipends were very, very late on more than one occasion. You've got to understand how this looks.....the members send national the monies and national sends a portion of that back to the members region. But, there was not enough money to send back to regions. And although I'm sure somebody will post up the quotes from the VCA/VPA/CM/LEE that the club was in great financial shape, the truth is the VCA is broke.

A normal business would take some of the advertising revenue from the Viper Magazine and use it so future issues can go to press and be sent to members on a timely schedule. But instead, and correct me if I'm wrong, Chris Marshall gets to keep the advertising revenue. You're going to have a hard time getting vendors to re-sign up when they pre-paid for their advertising but the VCA did not fulfill there end of the contract. Since not all Viper Magazine issues were printed in 2013, does this mean those vendors get their money back?....it's not their fault that the club ran short on funds is it?

Where did all the monies go? Were there no profits from the VPA that could be used to keep everything on track? It just doesn't make any fiscal sense.

I know you state you were not on the *** during that time correct? But all of the *** that were voting on halting the magazine to make the stipends, did they not care that the club was broke? None of them raised an eye to demand what the hell is going on? Sadly, the VCA has become the Enron of car clubs.

At first I figured the VCA would survive after hearing of another club starting up. But now, I don't see it making it to December of 2014.

George

 

[hammerofgods]

ViperJohn,

At first I figured the VCA would survive after hearing of another club starting up. But now, I don't see it making it to December of 2014.

George

VCA and SRT Viper Seeing how VCA claims partial credit for new car, this would be very fitting.

 

[steve911]

The recommendations for changes are still being made. We are also getting feedback from regional presidents. While most agree that change is needed, we still need to work through what changes should be and how they should be worded. I recently discovered that our bylaws have been altered quite a few times in the last 5-7 years.

As far as the election, I believe the plan is to have candidacy period open later this year with elections occurring at Presidents meeting in January.

I knew that was coming.... We have been told that elections were going to be held prior to the NEW YEAR, in other words 2013. Now that it is 2014, and at the presidents meeting (what all 3-4 remaining chapters), how does that provide for transparency???

If there is half a chance that the VCA wants to retain those stitting on the fence, have elections this year and be open about it. As far as I am concerned, reading the above posting by a VCA officer is the SSDD (same sh*t different day).

The REAL reason I believe why the elections WON'T be held in 2013 is that the VCA members who have chosen to go elsewhere in 2014 would most likely shape the board to a way different configuation than it is now.

 

[Mopar Steve]

Why would zones that have already voted to leave want to vote? I know there is the opinion that as dues paying members they have the right to vote for next years officers, and while I might agree, why would they want to vote if they were leaving anyway? Zones that have elected to stay can vote in January at the meeting with the whole year ahead of them.

I am serriously only asking. Not trying to start anything. Goodness knows my grammar and tone have not been the best lately and I am honestly being sincere. Sort of like someone voting for what songs will be played at a concert that they would not be attending.

 

[chorps]

Your prediction of people leaving will come true if you disenfranchise them. People who are have been screwed over for the slightest infraction or no infraction at all are *still* paid up members. Claiming that they are on their way out so they shouldn't have a voice is guaranteeing that they will leave.

 

[Camfab]

VPA is a great resource, and all this anger really mystifies me. Who are all these people with absolute answers speaking for the entire VCA membership, particularly those with enthusiast status. I'm so done with this........

 

[FOViper]

As far as what else is in the letter, he did try to take over VCA didn't he? Wasn't he part of the "illegal" board meeting held to remove Lee from office? The meeting was illegal because not all board members were invited and there needed to be a 20 day notice for board meetings.

Then the board meeting the extended JonB's ban was also illegal right?

Do you think that the club is in better shape now that what it would have been if Lee hadn't brought lawyers in and reinstated himself due to a technicality that he has overlooked many times to push Chris and his own agenda?

 

[FOViper]

VPA is a great resource, and all this anger really mystifies me. Who are all these people with absolute answers speaking for the entire VCA membership, particularly those with enthusiast status. I'm so done with this........

They are the people that have known what has been going on and decided long ago to stop lining Chris Marshalls pockets.

 

[FOViper]

"Bob Pentax, why do you keep posting the same picture of a non-existent Generation 5 Viper?. We are getting answers to some questions here."

I thought it provided a nice intermission from reading about a horse that has been beaten to death. All of the data above is old and was in a different thread days, if not weeks, ago. For instance, there is no reference to the Colpits post showing the letter inviting Maurice back as National Vice President. That was posted in the members section and in a public thread and discussed ad nauseum. At this point, I would guess that most people have made up there mind one way or the other and would like to return to discussing Viper related topics and some non related Viper topics in the relevant subforums. Most of us, regardless of whther we are VCA or not VCA, are Viper fans. I wish everyone well going forward.

"Old" data the zone directors in this thread are obviously not aware of. These are the new people in office, shouldn't they have all the correct information?

 

[past ohio]

This does remind me of the Obama administration !!

 

[Camfab]

"Old" data the zone directors in this thread are obviously not aware of. These are the new people in office, shouldn't they have all the correct information?

Why are you so concerned about the new zone directors if your not in the club? It really comes across as vindictive, if you really want and know what's best for the club then why don't you just join and help reconstruct the club. My second, and it is a question.........are you saying that Lee has brought in lawyers and is now the President? My final point is this, let's assume Chris Marshall is making money on the VPA deal. Honestly, I hope he is making money, no one should be doing all that work for free. So many here, including yourself are claiming that he is lining his pockets with cash. Ok so what are we talking about here, 60K/yr? Do you consider that lining your pockets? Honestly here, I'm just asking? For the price of admission to this club, I personally have enjoyed a heck of a lot of entertainment, and met some great people. So assuming he or anyone else was getting "rich" as some people believe, who gives a crap. 60K, 100K is not "rich", sounds like some serious petty jealousy to me..............It's a fricken car club.

 

[FOViper]

Why are you so concerned about the new zone directors if your not in the club? It really comes across as vindictive, if you really want and know what's best for the club then why don't you just join and help reconstruct the club. My second, and it is a question.........are you saying that Lee has brought in lawyers and is now the President? My final point is this, let's assume Chris Marshall is making money on the VPA deal. Honestly, I hope he is making money, no one should be doing all that work for free. So many here, including yourself are claiming that he is lining his pockets with cash. Ok so what are we talking about here, 60K/yr? Do you consider that lining your pockets? Honestly here, I'm just asking? For the price of admission to this club, I personally have enjoyed a heck of a lot of entertainment, and met some great people. So assuming he or anyone else was getting "rich" as some people believe, who gives a crap. 60K, 100K is not "rich", sounds like some serious petty jealousy to me..............It's a fricken car club.

Cam, you have obviously not kept up on this whole situation.

Lee was voted out of the club in a *** meeting BEFORE all the craziness happened AFTER the Chrysler letter came out and he was still saying everything was fine. Now, ViperJohn pointed out that technically that meeting wasn't an "official" meeting as there was not 20 days notice given. Lee hired a lawyer, found that loophole and had himself reinstated. After that you got all the suspensions by Lee and Dan and people quitting the club. AFTER that he stepped down.

You are right, Chris Marshall is making around 60k a year from the VPA. Nobody has actually gotten the books but he gave the *** this # last year I believe. He also gets the first $75k in advertising revenue generated by the magazine. (Still wondering why your mags are late and the club can't afford to print them?) Chris and Mary also demanded $50k to run VOI last year. Remember how registration opened so late? They refused to open registration until they were paid. Mary also makes $60k year to manage the club. They have also added their son on to the magazine staff as an editor. I don't believe anyone knows what his salary is. Please rerun your calculations again see if you think any 1 family should be making around 250k off the club in a year?? Jealousy......lmao.

YOU think it's a car club, it no longer is and has not operated in that manner for awhile. It's a business and was being run as such. If you can't see that then I'm sorry.

If you have more questions feel free to PM me.

 

[CWhiteRun]

Cam, you have obviously not kept up on this whole situation.

Lee was voted out of the club in a *** meeting BEFORE all the craziness happened AFTER the Chrysler letter came out and he was still saying everything was fine. Now, ViperJohn pointed out that technically that meeting wasn't an "official" meeting as there was not 20 days notice given. Lee hired a lawyer, found that loophole and had himself reinstated. After that you got all the suspensions by Lee and Dan and people quitting the club. AFTER that he stepped down.

You are right, Chris Marshall is making around 60k a year from the VPA. Nobody has actually gotten the books but he gave the *** this # last year I believe. He also gets the first $75k in advertising revenue generated by the magazine. (Still wondering why your mags are late and the club can't afford to print them?) Chris and Mary also demanded $50k to run VOI last year. Remember how registration opened so late? They refused to open registration until they were paid. Mary also makes $60k year to manage the club. They have also added their son on to the magazine staff as an editor. I don't believe anyone knows what his salary is. Please rerun your calculations again see if you think any 1 family should be making around 250k off the club in a year?? Jealousy......lmao.

YOU think it's a car club, it no longer is and has not operated in that manner for awhile. It's a business and was being run as such. If you can't see that then I'm sorry.

If you have more questions feel free to PM me.

Well done sir, well done

 

[ViperJohn]

ViperJohn,

Regardless of what else was going on, the conflicts of interest, wrongful moderation, **** style suspensions, etc,....the fact remains that the club is broke per your statement that the magazine was shelved so there would be some monies to pay the regions stipends...and from what region presidents are saying, those stipends were very, very late on more than one occasion. You've got to understand how this looks.....the members send national the monies and national sends a portion of that back to the members region. But, there was not enough money to send back to regions. And although I'm sure somebody will post up the quotes from the VCA/VPA/CM/LEE that the club was in great financial shape, the truth is the VCA is broke.

A normal business would take some of the advertising revenue from the Viper Magazine and use it so future issues can go to press and be sent to members on a timely schedule. But instead, and correct me if I'm wrong, Chris Marshall gets to keep the advertising revenue. You're going to have a hard time getting vendors to re-sign up when they pre-paid for their advertising but the VCA did not fulfill there end of the contract. Since not all Viper Magazine issues were printed in 2013, does this mean those vendors get their money back?....it's not their fault that the club ran short on funds is it?

Where did all the monies go? Were there no profits from the VPA that could be used to keep everything on track? It just doesn't make any fiscal sense.

I know you state you were not on the *** during that time correct? But all of the *** that were voting on halting the magazine to make the stipends, did they not care that the club was broke? None of them raised an eye to demand what the hell is going on? Sadly, the VCA has become the Enron of car clubs.

At first I figured the VCA would survive after hearing of another club starting up. But now, I don't see it making it to December of 2014.

George

Geroge, I have responded in order. Hopefully my paragraphs correspond to your questions and statements.

With regards to financial condition of the club when previous *** voted to suspend sending magazine, I wasn't on board at the time, but it appears to have been done in the interest of cash flow. The fact that National couldn't pay regional stipends in a timely manner is an issue, I agree. The club isn't broke, however, I feel (emphasis on this being my opinion) the club needs to cut expenses and manage cash flow better going forward.

As far as the magazine goes, I haven't dug into that yet. So I can't confirm or deny your claims. As far as advertisers go, if they paid for 6 issues and we only get 4 out this year, it would make sense to give them 2 free ads in 2014.

No profits from VPA came back to VCA, however, VPA carries some VCA expense and VPA has donated about 20K in parts to local VCA regions. I am not in agreement with some decisions previous *** made. These decisions may even go back in time further. Doesn't mean this can't be fixed either.


I can't speak for previous board, but my best guess is that they cared. In fact since I know most previous board members so I would say without a doubt they cared. I think some previous Board members did bring up this issue. It may very well have been one of the components in the feuding that was going on.

Don't give up on VCA yet. I will refer back to what started this whole thread.....the VCA is back to it's old ways......that is simply not the case. If the VCA doesn't change, it may very well die. Hopefully everyone can see that changes are being made. Only time will determine if changes have been made too late or if enough change was made. But rest assured we are trying.

 

[ViperJohn]

I knew that was coming.... We have been told that elections were going to be held prior to the NEW YEAR, in other words 2013. Now that it is 2014, and at the presidents meeting (what all 3-4 remaining chapters), how does that provide for transparency???

If there is half a chance that the VCA wants to retain those stitting on the fence, have elections this year and be open about it. As far as I am concerned, reading the above posting by a VCA officer is the SSDD (same sh*t different day).

The REAL reason I believe why the elections WON'T be held in 2013 is that the VCA members who have chosen to go elsewhere in 2014 would most likely shape the board to a way different configuration than it is now.

Regarding elections being held in 2013. I initially felt and thought they should be too. Not sure there is enough time. However, would you want someone to be elected into office that otherwise wouldn't be here next year?

For what it's worth, most of current *** don't want to stay in office next year, myself included. Even after all hell broke loose 6 weeks ago, I told Tony and Adrian, I would step down in a heartbeat if they wanted to come back.

With election process, you could potentially have all previous board members back in place.

 

[ViperJohn]

Then the board meeting the extended JonB's ban was also illegal right?

Do you think that the club is in better shape now that what it would have been if Lee hadn't brought lawyers in and reinstated himself due to a technicality that he has overlooked many times to push Chris and his own agenda?

With regards to the one that took place in December of 2012, based on what I have read online, it appears so. But keep in mind, the following month at the Presidents meeting, the board did in fact vote again to extend Jon B suspension.

Lee didn't bring an attorney into this mess, the VCA had an attorney that oversaw activities of board. The attorney brought up that the process wasn't done correctly, thus overturned. The same attorney also brought up the Maurice's suspension was invalid. At the end of the day, the attorney was impartial and both "sides" used him.

As far as the the club being in better shape? I can only speculate. Since it appears true that Randall resigned or threatened to resign multiple times during his office, he is not a leader that I would follow. And for the record, I thought Randall did a hell of a job as regional president, so news of this shocked me. The board would have probably continued to fight about issues but there would not be as much turmoil with regional presidents and members. So I would have to say that the club would have been in better shape right now, but the situation we are in now would have simply happened down the road a bit. The changes that have happened in the past 45 days would not have happened.

 

[chorps]

Geroge, I have responded in order. Hopefully my paragraphs correspond to your questions and statements.

With regards to financial condition of the club when previous *** voted to suspend sending magazine, I wasn't on board at the time, but it appears to have been done in the interest of cash flow. The fact that National couldn't pay regional stipends in a timely manner is an issue, I agree. The club isn't broke, however, I feel (emphasis on this being my opinion) the club needs to cut expenses and manage cash flow better going forward.

As far as the magazine goes, I haven't dug into that yet. So I can't confirm or deny your claims. As far as advertisers go, if they paid for 6 issues and we only get 4 out this year, it would make sense to give them 2 free ads in 2014.

No profits from VPA came back to VCA, however, VPA carries some VCA expense and VPA has donated about 20K in parts to local VCA regions. I am not in agreement with some decisions previous *** made. These decisions may even go back in time further. Doesn't mean this can't be fixed either.


I can't speak for previous board, but my best guess is that they cared. In fact since I know most previous board members so I would say without a doubt they cared. I think some previous Board members did bring up this issue. It may very well have been one of the components in the feuding that was going on.

Don't give up on VCA yet. I will refer back to what started this whole thread.....the VCA is back to it's old ways......that is simply not the case. If the VCA doesn't change, it may very well die. Hopefully everyone can see that changes are being made. Only time will determine if changes have been made too late or if enough change was made. But rest assured we are trying.

If there was clarity and openness like this only a few months earlier I think the exodus would have been averted.

 

[ViperJohn]

Cam, you have obviously not kept up on this whole situation.

Lee was voted out of the club in a *** meeting BEFORE all the craziness happened AFTER the Chrysler letter came out and he was still saying everything was fine. Now, ViperJohn pointed out that technically that meeting wasn't an "official" meeting as there was not 20 days notice given. Lee hired a lawyer, found that loophole and had himself reinstated. After that you got all the suspensions by Lee and Dan and people quitting the club. AFTER that he stepped down.

You are right, Chris Marshall is making around 60k a year from the VPA. Nobody has actually gotten the books but he gave the *** this # last year I believe. He also gets the first $75k in advertising revenue generated by the magazine. (Still wondering why your mags are late and the club can't afford to print them?) Chris and Mary also demanded $50k to run VOI last year. Remember how registration opened so late? They refused to open registration until they were paid. Mary also makes $60k year to manage the club. They have also added their son on to the magazine staff as an editor. I don't believe anyone knows what his salary is. Please rerun your calculations again see if you think any 1 family should be making around 250k off the club in a year?? Jealousy......lmao.

YOU think it's a car club, it no longer is and has not operated in that manner for awhile. It's a business and was being run as such. If you can't see that then I'm sorry.

If you have more questions feel free to PM me.

I want to jump on this one to as I see some inaccuracies and things that require clarification.

Lee didn't hire an attorney.

I can't confirm or deny whether or not the Marshalls demanded the 50K to run VOI 12. I do remember reading that Janni Cone posted that board researched what companies charge to set and run VOI-type events and that 50K was not out of line and perhaps even less expensive than what typical event planning companies would charge. The process may or may not been handled properly, but everyone agrees that they should do it for free.

The 60K the VCA pays Coast 2 Coast is half of what it used to cost. I don't think we will find another company to run at as well and inexpensively as Mary did. Both "sides" agree on that.

I haven't dived into the magazine yet. Primary focus was to get past due issues out. I believe magazines have finally started trickling out.

At the end of the day, the VCA is a car club but due to it's size and infrastructure, requires it be run as a business. The same applies to local regions. I always have run our region as if it were a business.

 

[ViperJohn]

If there was clarity and openness like this only a few months earlier I think the exodus would have been averted.

Agreed. However, if those who left came back and put the energy they are putting into starting a new organization back into the VCA, we could heal the club faster. The election process we want to put into place makes this a reality. It's not too late.

 

[Bobpantax]

I do not believe that VPA "carries some VCA expense". However, it appears that VPA may be paying some items that the VCA used to pay. There is a difference. For instance, per prior posts, Herb Helbig is now paid by VPA but since Herb is the retired chief engineer of SRT, it made far more sense for VPA to have him as a consultant regarding parts and the historical equipment than for the VCA to continue having him as its consultant. Herb's continuing to do the short articles in the magazine and have a thread is a common practice of a for profit business doing some promotional activity in the context of a non profit entity. For instance, Luke posts about tires. CPAs, attorneys, and others speak before non profit groups all the time. The donation of the parts to the Regions is separate from the VCA since all of the Regions are separate entities.

Geroge, I have responded in order. Hopefully my paragraphs correspond to your questions and statements.

With regards to financial condition of the club when previous *** voted to suspend sending magazine, I wasn't on board at the time, but it appears to have been done in the interest of cash flow. The fact that National couldn't pay regional stipends in a timely manner is an issue, I agree. The club isn't broke, however, I feel (emphasis on this being my opinion) the club needs to cut expenses and manage cash flow better going forward.

As far as the magazine goes, I haven't dug into that yet. So I can't confirm or deny your claims. As far as advertisers go, if they paid for 6 issues and we only get 4 out this year, it would make sense to give them 2 free ads in 2014.

No profits from VPA came back to VCA, however, VPA carries some VCA expense and VPA has donated about 20K in parts to local VCA regions. I am not in agreement with some decisions previous *** made. These decisions may even go back in time further. Doesn't mean this can't be fixed either.


I can't speak for previous board, but my best guess is that they cared. In fact since I know most previous board members so I would say without a doubt they cared. I think some previous Board members did bring up this issue. It may very well have been one of the components in the feuding that was going on.

Don't give up on VCA yet. I will refer back to what started this whole thread.....the VCA is back to it's old ways......that is simply not the case. If the VCA doesn't change, it may very well die. Hopefully everyone can see that changes are being made. Only time will determine if changes have been made too late or if enough change was made. But rest assured we are trying.

 

[Bugman Jeff]

A few quick questions from a perspective member that I haven't seen answered yet, if you don't mind. Where is the Raffle car currently, and when can the winner legally take possession? Can the new board shed some light on the legality of the raffle?

 

[Glen97]

VPA has donated about 20K in parts to local VCA regions. It would be nice to see what regions got the donated parts? I would bet not all received donations.
Glen

 

[Janni]

please stop mentioning my name with regard to historical information, not posting "the whole story" that I have posted, when I cannot respond. It's sneaky, dirty and underhanded. It also istrying to capitalize on the respect I have in this org - and that's yet another BS move.

And yes - I know I am still moderated - but I am going to ask you to stop it.

 

[FOViper]

I want to jump on this one to as I see some inaccuracies and things that require clarification.

Lee didn't hire an attorney.

I can't confirm or deny whether or not the Marshalls demanded the 50K to run VOI 12. I do remember reading that Janni Cone posted that board researched what companies charge to set and run VOI-type events and that 50K was not out of line and perhaps even less expensive than what typical event planning companies would charge. The process may or may not been handled properly, but everyone agrees that they should do it for free.

The 60K the VCA pays Coast 2 Coast is half of what it used to cost. I don't think we will find another company to run at as well and inexpensively as Mary did. Both "sides" agree on that.

I haven't dived into the magazine yet. Primary focus was to get past due issues out. I believe magazines have finally started trickling out.

At the end of the day, the VCA is a car club but due to it's size and infrastructure, requires it be run as a business. The same applies to local regions. I always have run our region as if it were a business.

What inaccuracies did you clarify? You confirmed everything I said except for the attorney part. I should have been more clear on that part. He didn't have to go out and physically "hire" an attorney, he consulted with the club attorney. You also see evidence of this in the suspension letters as he even says he consulted the club attorney. Cam was asking for #'s and I provided them.

 

[FOViper]

I do not believe that VPA "carries some VCA expense". However, it appears that VPA may be paying some items that the VCA used to pay. There is a difference. For instance, per prior posts, Herb Helbig is now paid by VPA but since Herb is the retired chief engineer of SRT, it made far more sense for VPA to have him as a consultant regarding parts and the historical equipment than for the VCA to continue having him as its consultant. Herb's continuing to do the short articles in the magazine and have a thread is a common practice of a for profit business doing some promotional activity in the context of a non profit entity. For instance, Luke posts about tires. CPAs, attorneys, and others speak before non profit groups all the time. The donation of the parts to the Regions is separate from the VCA since all of the Regions are separate entities.

Right, Marshall has said many times that they have taken over Herb salary and reduced other expenses to the club. So since the VPA has reduced the all these club expenses why in the world can the club not pay the region their dues or pay to have the magazine printed???

 

[Bobpantax]

Just curious FO. Assuming your numbers are correct for discussion sake, do you think that the VCA and VPA could have gotten unrelated third parties to provide the services at issue in each instance for less? If so, could you please provide the data you are relying upon for what appears to be an assumption on your part that the price for the services, except for the 60K, was excessive? I think that some of us, including me, are having trouble understanding your position without providing that data.

 

[FOViper]

Just curious FO. Assuming your numbers are correct for discussion sake, do you think that the VCA and VPA could have gotten unrelated third parties to provide the services at issue in each instance for less? If so, could you please provide the data you are relying upon for what appears to be an assumption on your part that the price for the services, except for the 60K, was excessive? I think that some of us, including me, are having trouble understanding your position without providing that data.

Bob I really don't care what you are or are not having trouble understanding.

It's pretty basic math $60k + $60k +75k + $50k = $245k That is WITHOUT counting their sons salary which we don't know.

Why is it my responsibility to go out and get bids for these jobs just for your own personal data. You know whose job that was for the entire club? Chris Marshalls when he set all of this up. You know what he did? He hired himself, his wife and his son. I don't need to prove it can't be done for less, he does as it was he responsibility in the first place.

 

[Bobpantax]

You are the one making allegations suggesting that the amounts are somehow excessive. So the burden is on you to back up what you are suggesting. If you do not really know, what is your position based on? For all we know at this point, what was paid may have been a bargain. Until I see hard data, all I see is an angry poster making an unsubstantiated allegation against someone who he clearly does not like and may even hate. I do not think that I am the only person reading this thread who sees the issue in this light.

Take care.

Bob I really don't care what you are or are not having trouble understanding.

It's pretty basic math $60k + $60k +75k + $50k = $245k That is WITHOUT counting their sons salary which we don't know.

Why is it my responsibility to go out and get bids for these jobs just for your own personal data. You know whose job that was for the entire club? Chris Marshalls when he set all of this up. You know what he did? He hired himself, his wife and his son. I don't need to prove it can't be done for less, he does as it was he responsibility in the first place.

 

[FOViper]

I do not think that I am the only person reading this thread who sees the issue in this light.

The others being Chris, Mary, Marv, Lee, Dan, Cathy, etc....

 

[MoparBoyy]

Bob is the most informed normal member of the VCA, he knows more than zone directors!