Vette engineer on the Viper

[viking]

What do you think of this?


Corvetteforum: You've said in the past that you don't consider the Dodge Viper to be a competitor of the Corvette because it's from a different market segment. But I've heard some Viper owners say recently that they consider the C6 ZO6 to be a significant competitor - one some of them will buy to replace their Vipers. Was the strategy to lull to sleep the Viper designers and engineers and then catch them off guard with Corvette's bold new step?

David Hill: Corvettes need to be more well balanced and less specialized than cars like today's Viper. We've extensively benchmarked the Viper and are confident that our Z06 will offer a compelling alternative. But Z06 is a compelling alternative to Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin, Lamborghini, Maserati and Ford GT as well. We aim to grow the Corvette business by offering a better car.

 

[Wifey's Viper]

I doubt the Z06 is an alternative to many Lamborghini, Ferrari, Maserati, Aston Martin & GT buyers. Those often tend to be status vehicles.

I do agree the Z06 will probably be a more driveable vehicle with better creature comforts than the Viper. The performance to boot is also impressive.

In the end it will appeal to Vette buyers who are happy to finally have the performance they wanted. I just think they are different markets.

 

[viking]

I like the phrase "extensively benchmarked". #1 it means they thought the Viper was the goal, the standard in the class and #2 "extensively" almost implies they copied it.

 

[Nader]

I agree. They tried to mirror the Viper's capabilities while maintaining a more "user friendly" driver. Since the Viper is Specialized, the vette is generic copy to appeal to a broader audience.

 

[Frank 03SRT]

If the Viper isn't a competitor to the Z06, why did GM make the Z06 look just like it? Maybe the "extensive" part was the design appearance.

 

[viperdrummer]

I had a C5 and C6. He is the same guy who said the premium Bose stereo in the C6 is amazing and implied it was really state of the art. It sounded like crap. He was also enamored of the "polished " $1200 wheel option. They looked awful and many buyers loudly complained. I liked my C6 , but saw one a couple of weeks ago at VIR and the fit and finish looked like a kit car. I was on the Z06 list, but concerns over quality and resale took me off. I also envisioned what it would be like to take a Z06 into your average Chevy dealer and see the look of amazement on the face of the 18 yr old kid trying to figure out how to fix it. Like an aborigine looking at an iPod.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

But Z06 is a compelling alternative to Ferrari, Porsche, Aston Martin, Lamborghini, Maserati and Ford GT as well.

That's hilarious.

 

[SnakeEye]

If the Viper isn't a competitor to the Z06, why did GM make the Z06 look just like it? Maybe the "extensive" part was the design appearance. -Frank 03SRT

Frank plzzzzzzzz the Chebby Z06 does not look like the SRT-10 Viper.

 

[RSI Unlimited]

Even if the car is slightly faster than a stock SRT10, Heads and Cam or even a few bolt-ons will put us back on top. I wouldn't be surprised to see a 550 plus hp viper roll off the assembly line in the coming yrs.

 

[sween]

i woundn't be suprised either. hopefully they use the carbon concepts 625 HP engine and reduce weight.

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

How about Dodge answers Chevy's 25% HP up grade of the Z06, with our 25% up grade of an ACR with 625 HP?

 

[Mopar426]

No way is the Z06 going to replace an exotic like Ferrari/Lambo no more than a Viper will, NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

While the Z06 and Viper can offer the same if not more performance neither car will EVER have the exclusitivity/staus of the Exotics.

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

I'll put my ALL AMERICAN Viper up against any foreign Exotics any day.

 

[Turbo63]

The Z will be a yawn .. a bit quicker then the C6 but it will look just like a normal C6 Corvette so who really cares? Our Vipers are a blast in so many ways -- nothing to compare!

 

[Snakester]

Having the performance of a $300K Lamborghini Murcielago in comparative testing does raise the status of the Viper and the Z06.

Still, the Italian performance cars always carry their exotic history on a red flag held high. As high as their price. Which attracts the rich because it filters out the less affluent from their ownership ranks.

And even though the Viper does have a good reputation as a fast and rare car, it does desparately need to raise it's power now, just as the Porsche Turbo, Gallardo, and F430 will need more power to help separate themselves from the upstart (read very fast) C6 Z06.

A BIG issue holding the Z06 back in image/status is the fact that it looks almost identical to the regular C6 Corvette. Plus economics won't allow Chevy to meet their $65K price point and also have the quality, fit, finish, and high-end materials of the pricey European performance cars.

The cars that need to worry the most about the Z06 are ones like the Porsche Cayman, and 911, which cost about the same, but don't offer anywhere near the performance as the new Vette.

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

I doubt the Z06 is an alternative to many Lamborghini, Ferrari, Maserati, Aston Martin & GT buyers. Those often tend to be status vehicles.

I do agree the Z06 will probably be a more driveable vehicle with better creature comforts than the Viper. The performance to boot is also impressive.

In the end it will appeal to Vette buyers who are happy to finally have the performance they wanted. I just think they are different markets.

Very well said! The best and shortest summation yet. Different markets indeed!

 

[Jim Hodel]

I have nothing bad too say about the new Corvette C6 Z06 or even the standard C6. I do think Dodge needs to make some adjustments too the new coupe. However, I owned an 01 Z06 for four years and recently sold it - kept my 99 Viper that I bought new. It's not a matter of logic or even performance really. I just like the Viper better.

Jim

 

[Camfab]

Good point about taking a Z-06 to the dealer. Boy those Dodge dealers only employ MIT graduates.

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Well at least they are specifically trained and certified on the Viper. GM does not do a thing to upgrade their mechanics from a cavalier, trust me I've been there with many Vettes. The Viper tech experience is 200% better.

 

[safireviper]

Who needs upgrades when you can get new colors? That's what REALLY makes a cool car.

 

[SnakeEye]

Who needs upgrades when you can get new colors? That's what REALLY makes a cool car. -safireviper

Any color but graphite but don't concern yourself.
The SRT-10 rocks and Paxton makes it even better...

 

[viperdrummer]

Camfab: I have worked with several MIT grads over the years, and I cannot think of one who I would let work on my Vipers. My Viper tech , however, has been extraordinary with all 3 Vipers. My experince with taking my Vettes in has been miserable. Buy both, give it a shot, and report back.

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

The Z will be a yawn .. a bit quicker then the C6 but it will look just like a normal C6 Corvette so who really cares? Our Vipers are a blast in so many ways -- nothing to compare!



Ya. What he said.

 

[glenn hofstetter]

GM has already said its aluminum chassis twists more than the regular Vet, how's that for performance engineering? We have such poor gas here I would be really worried about the high compression ratio. Every Chevy built car I ever owned, including Vets, broke when real power was put through the drive line. I wouldn't touch this car. There will be 100's of them on the road for each Viper.

 

[Mopar426]

Well at least they are specifically trained and certified on the Viper. GM does not do a thing to upgrade their mechanics from a cavalier, trust me I've been there with many Vettes. The Viper tech experience is 200% better.

I wonder if they will send their techs to school for the LS7 like they did for the LT5/ZR1's? Guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Mopar426]

GM has already said its aluminum chassis twists more than the regular Vet, how's that for performance engineering? We have such poor gas here I would be really worried about the high compression ratio. Every Chevy built car I ever owned, including Vets, broke when real power was put through the drive line. I wouldn't touch this car. There will be 100's of them on the road for each Viper.

Considering the C6R uses the same frame I wouldn't be worried and I'm sure the driveline will be up to task.

As far as numbers GM is said to build around 3,000 units per year so the ratio won't be 100:1.

Guess we'll all just have to wait and see.

 

[sween]

3000 per year. nope. way more than that. it will be around 10,000 per year.

 

[kwiksilver]

I don't believe the C6R uses the same frame as I think the aluminum is not legal

 

[FloridaChris]

I don't believe the C6R uses the same frame as I think the aluminum is not legal

Why wouldn't aluminum be legal? No laws on type of metal in a chassis. Ford GT, BMW Z-8, Lotus Elise to name a few are all aluminum chassis cars.

 

[sween]

another one acura NSX