VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

[dave6666]

White is technically a lack of color, so the white vents shouldn't slow him down or speed him up. That said, the all white Vipers don't move at all.

Oh Grasshopper, you have it backerds. White is the presence of all color, whereas black is the absence of all color.

Technically then, black is not even a color.

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

Have you ever tried switching the Vipair to the other car and seeing if it too idles cooler with the Vipair installed?

I realized after I said I would do this that a direct comparison between the two vehicles would not be possible because the cars are not identical due to the following:

2000 car: 170 t-stat / no cats
2001 car: OEM t-stat / hi flow cats.

Both cars have 5 pound Roe blowers, Belanger headers, 3” exhaust (00 is Belanger exhaust and the 01 is Corsa), and lightweight flywheels.

There is a huge heat differential between the cars because of the cats. I can run the 00 car relatively hard and still put my hand on the side sills without issue when put in the garage. You will burn yourself attempting the same with the 01 car. Heat literally radiates off the side sills in the 01 car. I also think the t-stat difference in an idle situation impacts the results.

I came to the conclusion that I might wait forever here for another hot day…..so I did the test over 2 days with the following parameters:

I installed the Vipair on the 2001 car which had been Vipair less until this test.

2001 car with Vipair

68F in garage both days
Cold start up
10 minute idle (T-stat open)
IAT 92-95F

19 minute idle.
IAT 110-113F

2001 car without Vipair
Cold start up
10 minute idle (T-stat open)
IAT 96-101F

19 minute idle
123.62 to 126.12

While not completely scientific, the results do show an improvement in a static situation. Most Vipers are with convertors and standard T-stat……so the conclusion would be a slight improvement for most Vipers. Of course, there may be little value of a 10-15F temperature reduction at idle, but I think it does prove that the Vipair limits engine heat from entering the engine through the air intake system in all running conditions. I have no clue how this translates to power gains, but it is absolutely true that gas engines run better with cooler/cold air. Another thing about power……dynos are kind of a bench bragging thing when it comes to adding a few HP. Ingesting cooler air at speed could easily pick up those few HP (which seems to be the main debate here), thus giving slightly stronger performance.

I also checked the 2000 catless / lower t-stat car when I removed it from that vehicle to test on the 01. ...same test parameters....68F by my garage thermometer. The results were not conclusive on this car in a static situation. My guess is that running only 10-15 minutes with a cooler thermostat, and pretty much zero side sill heat in that amount of time, is not enough to show a difference. One could surmise that if the ambient outside temperature were much higher than 68F, that there could be noticeable differences on the cooler running car at idle for the same time frame used.

In logging conditions, with the ambient outside temp around 90F a year or two ago, I hit 144F on the 01 catted car and 128 on the 00 catless car. At speed, I have to think the convertor heat is not as much an issue. There is another difference between the cars under moving conditions. The 00 car has stock tires and 3.45 gears. The 01 car has stock gears and 19” tires, making the effective rear end ratio a 2.92.
The 3.45 gears have everything turning faster in the 00 car, thus generating more heat through the driveline. (and less than a stock set up on the 01 car)

Thus, the Vipair chronicle continues.

Steve

……….if anyone wants to send me a ‘yellow’ Vipair for my above time consuming (Vipair positive) labours, I’d be happy to have it permanently affixed to our bumblebee ACR

 

[BOTTLEFED]

thanks Steve
good info

I may just start looking into one of these since I don't have plans for a full aftermarket intake anytime soon

 

[Warfang]

Oh Grasshopper, you have it backerds. White is the presence of all color, whereas black is the absence of all color.

Technically then, black is not even a color.

It depends if you're talking about light or pigment (CMYK ink/paint). Since we're talking car paint, white is the absence of color, while all of the primary colors (CMYK) makes black. In light, all the colors of the rainbow make white light, while no light is black. This is why TV's always brag about how good they "represent" black, because true black can never be achieved from a light source (tv).

The teacher is the student... or vice versa.

 

[FE 065]

A good test Steve, and seems to be rather conclusive regarding idle inlet air temps. Thanks for making the effort. Though to be 100% accurate, it might be necessary though to use the same AIT sensor in both tests. I'm not splitting hairs just for the sake of it, using the same AIT sensor would simply rule out what could be an important variable.

The airbox inlet sections not behind the NACA duct on each side could of course be inhaling some hot engine comparment air at idle. Which is where the Vipair's ducts are attached to the airbox, essentially ducting air from below the area where the access panel formerly was. Note too that once the access panel is removed to install the Vipair, hot air from the oil cooler can also now find its' way up into the airbox at idle. There is a lot of heat coming off the oil cooler and at idle it must be rising right up towards the airbox inlet. (Another reason to use the same AIT sensor while testing perhaps.)

I did post some time ago in this thread my air temp measurement tests at 50 mph. There was no temperature difference at all at that speed with or without air from behind the facia being allowed to come up and into the airbox inlet. Not a huge surprise; to think that air behind the radiator is somehow going to work its' way forward at any speed in spite of air rushing through the radiator and air rushing by underneath the car, is a bit much.


Inlet air temps aside, there's always the question of Vipair's ability to funnel high pressure air that has come thru the facia opening into the airbox at speed. Just how much of a contribution is that when the NACA duct provides the majority of air inlet area? Most Viper race teams were blocking off the NACA duct, if it's not blocked off would the little bit of high pressure air contributed by the Vipair find its' way into the airbox or be sucked out the NACA duct that's been known to backflow at speed?

All it takes to solve all the questions is enough on road, track or strip results coming back from Vipair users to prove it one way or the other. Problem is there's very little before/after performance data. I can't recall anyone saying their car was faster at the strip with Vipair, or that they were faster in roll-ons against another car after the installation etc. So it's still mostly conjecture.

The Corvette guys spend a lot of time talking about the various inlet systems available for their cars too. Debate's a lot of fun, I'd just like to see some real world/on the road (not on the dyno) results, and there haven't been many.


I mean how great would it be to bolt on something so simple and see real world/on the road gains?

 

[GTS-R 001]

HEy FE, Good post.

The inlet opening sq in. on the vipair actually exceeds the the sq in of the actual opening in the NACA duct.

To have this work best you have to block the Naca. I have a design I worked on that would block the NACA once positive air pressure was reached at speed, but I did not pursue it due to the over the top debate about whether the product worked or not. Unfortunately ROI's come into effect. Funny now the debate is how much it works vs if it does or not.

I wnet over the design with Gerry Malicoat ( viper race GTSR designer who was the one who blocked the NACA and found the 60 - 80 HP LOSS at speed due to the NACA duct +80 mph)

If there is interest I can quite quickly rig up a new generation Vipair that (at speed) would create some positive manifold air pressure, maybe a few guys here could volunteer to test ( with instruments) data logging MAP and temperatures.

Steve 00RT/10 PM me your details....

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

A good test Steve, and seems to be rather conclusive regarding idle inlet air temps. Thanks for making the effort. Though to be 100% accurate, it might be necessary though to use the same AIT sensor in both tests. I'm not splitting hairs just for the sake of it, using the same AIT sensor would simply rule out what could be an important variable.

The airbox inlet sections not behind the NACA duct on each side could of course be inhaling some hot engine comparment air at idle. Which is where the Vipair's ducts are attached to the airbox, essentially ducting air from below the area where the access panel formerly was. Note too that once the access panel is removed to install the Vipair, hot air from the oil cooler can also now find its' way up into the airbox at idle. There is a lot of heat coming off the oil cooler and at idle it must be rising right up towards the airbox inlet. (Another reason to use the same AIT sensor while testing perhaps.)

I did post some time ago in this thread my air temp measurement tests at 50 mph. There was no temperature difference at all at that speed with or without air from behind the facia being allowed to come up and into the airbox inlet. Not a huge surprise; to think that air behind the radiator is somehow going to work its' way forward at any speed in spite of air rushing through the radiator and air rushing by underneath the car, is a bit much.


Inlet air temps aside, there's always the question of Vipair's ability to funnel high pressure air that has come thru the facia opening into the airbox at speed. Just how much of a contribution is that when the NACA duct provides the majority of air inlet area? Most Viper race teams were blocking off the NACA duct, if it's not blocked off would the little bit of high pressure air contributed by the Vipair find its' way into the airbox or be sucked out the NACA duct that's been known to backflow at speed?

All it takes to solve all the questions is enough on road, track or strip results coming back from Vipair users to prove it one way or the other. Problem is there's very little before/after performance data. I can't recall anyone saying their car was faster at the strip with Vipair, or that they were faster in roll-ons against another car after the installation etc. So it's still mostly conjecture.

The Corvette guys spend a lot of time talking about the various inlet systems available for their cars too. Debate's a lot of fun, I'd just like to see some real world/on the road (not on the dyno) results, and there haven't been many.


I mean how great would it be to bolt on something so simple and see real world/on the road gains?

FE 065....I don't disagree with most of your points. I do think the Vipair itself blocks the same space the access cover to the oil cooler area does.

I think we can all agree that cooler air is good for a gas engine and will lend itself to better performance.

My hot 'moving' logs seem to indicate a temp differential as well. ....even given the fact we agree a lot of high engine heat is blown away by the speed you're going.

There are zero tracks anywhere close to here to try anything you suggest. I will say that running 15-20 minute sessions at Gingerman only gets my temp gauge up to about 2 needles past the 3rd mark in the 190F area. One cool down lap and when I park, I am down to the mid point of the 3 marks or lower.....that's with a blower and 3.45 gears. (no cats). I have never experienced any heat soak at the track.......based on how fast I am able to go on the straights.

I'm probably done experimenting now. I agree with the premise they were designed to do. I have no idea how this little bit of cooling translates to HP numbers, but I think it does perform it's intended function of funneling slightly cooler air into the maw of the mighty V10

Steve

 

[dave6666]

Good to see the old Vipair thread living the high life again.

See you in a few months for updates!

 

[crviper]

Amazing that someone just paid $91 on ebay for one when you can buy them brand new on ebay for $59, as that's what and where I paid for mine.

Hey NOW! I am the one that won that bid. Due that I won the guys air intakes for $30!! SO

 

[crviper]

Which for the record, I have mine installed on my gen 1 and I like it. Sure looks better than the stock one! lmao!

 

[dave6666]

2010. Wake up everyone.

 

[99 R/T 10]

Damn you Sir, damn you to heck.....................................................

 

[eucharistos]

so, does anyone have an opinion as to whether these things work? dyno results

 

[Mopar Boy]

Oh not this thread again!


Dave!

 

[Sweet Ride]

Can I plumb the Vipair to cool my brake rotors? If so, what kind of additional applied torque ratings can I acheieve?

LMAO!

Glad this thread is back!

 

[KNG SNKE]

OMG again? Seriously? Stop waking this thread up.

 

[Wyoming_54]

After reading this tread I see it is/was a train wreck, but with out it I would have never noticed there is one on my car.

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[AV108U]

Well....what is the conclusion if any ? Will it help putting a K&N filter in also ? I already have smooth tubes..

 

[plumcrazy]

Dyno numbers do not matter. You HAVE to run it on the track and if its not trappeng a higher MPH it did nothing. To deside if TRUE or not call Evan smith and have him hot lap it in humid and hot weather. That would be a true test. If your car is not trapping 122 mph blah blah blah.....

Next I'm going to quote myself 2 times and reply to my own posts.

 

[99 R/T 10]

Come on Phil, you know you will. This is the devil's thread...................

Like a bad habit, it keeps coming back.................

 

[GTS-R 001]

Dyno numbers do not matter. You HAVE to run it on the track and if its not trappeng a higher MPH it did nothing. To deside if TRUE or not call Evan smith and have him hot lap it in humid and hot weather. That would be a true test. If your car is not trapping 122 mph blah blah blah.....

Next I'm going to quote myself 2 times and reply to my own posts.

Well Plumb,

Here is the answer,

Norm here in this picture was once quoted saying (while rather drunk after his record setting Naturally Aspirated run so you know its true)

"I owe all my success to this Vipair Intake, without it all the other mods I ever made to my car meant little to nothing"

 

[SquadX]

Dyno numbers do not matter. You HAVE to run it on the track and if its not trappeng a higher MPH it did nothing. To deside if TRUE or not call Evan smith and have him hot lap it in humid and hot weather. That would be a true test. If your car is not trapping 122 mph blah blah blah.....

Next I'm going to quote myself 2 times and reply to my own posts.

LOLLL Hilarious. you need a few more caps then perfect lol

 

[Mopar Boy]

Does give the intake a cool sound....

 

[Fatboy 18]

Well started reading this thread with interest, got to page 19 and gave up

So have any tests been performed on Yellow cars

Would be interesting to compare results with Red cars

Anyways does it work

Mark

 

[AV108U]

Just ordered one.....can't test till spring....damn snow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[jay01m]

Well started reading this thread with interest, got to page 19 and gave up

Wow, I'm surprised you made it to page 19 LOL! I read to page 2 and threw in the towel.

Sorry if anyone already addressed this, but IMHO the name of the game is whether or not it truly drops air intake temperatures. If it does I would think it's a worthwhile mod. It would allow for tuning the car for the lower intake temps, which could lead to more oxygen intake into the motor, and increased timing without knock/detonation, all of which lead to more power.

Question is, does it? This can be known with a simple EASE scan with before and after snapshot of what the intake air temperature is reading.

I want to emphasize that like all mods of this nature, it really does hardly any good without a new tune of the car. Got to do a tune after mods like these.

Just my $.02.
Jason
Hampton Roads, VA

 

[01ACR/VIPER]

So,whats this VIPAIR thing everyone is talking about?

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

Well if noone else is gonna bump this for April Fool's Day, I'll just have to do it myself

 

[eucharistos]

Well if noone else is gonna bump this for April Fool's Day, I'll just have to do it myself

i was waiting for chad to do it




thanks chad

 

[vpower01]

ok im game i think its something to do with air?