VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

[Vipermed 97.01]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB14&Number=330236&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#Post330270
The winner of Stock Gen2 Gary soltys. when they said stock they forgot to mention that he had the vipair.11.87 not bad times

 

[vipah]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Is using the magic HP beans considered stock?

 

[Larry Macedo]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Gary S and I will be going to the track in a few weeks and will freely give everyone our analysis on the Vipair since we'll make passes with and without the unit. I forgot to mention Gary S has been drag racing for quite a looooong time so the benefits will be documented.

 

[joe117]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Sound's good. I'm not so sure that the claimed power increase would show up in quarter mile runs.
It will be interesting to see if you find a consistant improvement in your time with this device.

Do you have any estimate of what 16 extra hp might do for you if the device could provide that?

 

[Larry Macedo]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Sound's good. I'm not so sure that the claimed power increase would show up in quarter mile runs.
It will be interesting to see if you find a consistant improvement in your time with this device.

Do you have any estimate of what 16 extra hp might do for you if the device could provide that?

16 extra HP?

 

[FranciscoR.]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

I don't know much about HP and 1/4 times but it doesn't seem a 16hp increase would improve times any noticeable difference since it is only 16hp out of probably 400 - 500 or more hp.

 

[Tiepilot]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Be nice if it makes a difference in the 1/4 mile!

 

[ViperJoe]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Is this the longest thread ever? LOL!!!!!

 

[OutThere]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Think they even sold 1 due to the popularity of this stupid thread?

 

[GTS-R 001]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Larry, the 16 hp came from a dyno test, in fact only the "unbiased" dyno test has shown no gain so far all others have shown between 6 - 24 rwhp as reported by our customers, we have only posted the median dyno graphs and have not posted the 24 rwhp or the 6 rwhp.

OutThere, sales have been quite good as there are a lot of Viper owners "out there" with common sense and $ 200.00.

Steve

 

[vipah]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Magic HP bean sales are way up as well. Must be the same owners with common sense.

 

[Russ M]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Larry, the 16 hp came from a dyno test, in fact only the "unbiased" dyno test has shown no gain so far all others have shown between 6 - 24 rwhp as reported by our customers, we have only posted the median dyno graphs and have not posted the 24 rwhp or the 6 rwhp.

OutThere, sales have been quite good as there are a lot of Viper owners "out there" with common sense and $ 200.00.

Steve

Now you are starting to cross the line. I have been more than fair with my dyno testing on my own dime I might add.

None of your so called dyno tests have any hint of proper before and after testing. They typically have 1 or 2 before pulls and 1 pull after with a long installation time in between.

I will promise you that NO vipair will ever make power on a properly controlled dyno test. And to this date you don't have 1 valid set of dyno pulls besides mine, why is that? Lets hear some of these 16rwhp gain tests, exactly how they were done. How the vipers they were done with pulled numbers lower than a Gen 1 initially.

Please wake up.

PS. Anyone want a slightly used piece of plastic with magic hp beans already installed? Its yours for $100.00, exactly what the dyno testing cost.

 

[Shelby3]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Larry, the 16 hp came from a dyno test, in fact only the "unbiased" dyno test has shown no gain so far all others have shown between 6 - 24 rwhp as reported by our customers, we have only posted the median dyno graphs and have not posted the 24 rwhp or the 6 rwhp.

OutThere, sales have been quite good as there are a lot of Viper owners "out there" with common sense and $ 200.00.

Steve

Now you are starting to cross the line. I have been more than fair with my dyno testing on my own dime I might add.

None of your so called dyno tests have any hint of proper before and after testing. They typically have 1 or 2 before pulls and 1 pull after with a long installation time in between.

I will promise you that NO vipair will ever make power on a properly controlled dyno test. And to this date you don't have 1 valid set of dyno pulls besides mine, why is that? Lets hear some of these 16rwhp gain tests, exactly how they were done. How the vipers they were done with pulled numbers lower than a Gen 1 initially.

Please wake up.

PS. Anyone want a slightly used piece of plastic with magic hp beans already installed? Its yours for $100.00, exactly what the dyno testing cost.

I thought the vipair came with a money back guarantee? Why would you sell it for $100?

 

[Frank 03SRT]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

All right, that does it!!!

I call shennanigans!

Run this Vipair out of town!!

 

[joe117]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

MacedoMS,
The 16hp was what the manufacturers of the Vipair claim to be the gain they recorded when they tested Vipair on a dyno.

I'd like to have you estimate of what that 16hp gain would give you in lower 1/4 mile times.

My estimate would be about .1 seconds, perhaps a little more.

This, of course, is based on the device producing the gain claimed by the manufacturer.

Based on what I consider an unbiased dyno test performed by Russ, I don't believe you will see any gain from Vipair.

 

[joe117]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

EdmontonGTS
You have been saying that Russ did not perform a truly unbiased test. I don't think I ever heard the basis of your accusation.

Just so we know, please tell us if you think Russ reported false results.

I'm sure that you are unbiased in your insistance that Vipair will do what you claim.

Just so everyone knows how unbiased you are, why don't you tell us how much money you have invested in this product and thus, how much you would lose if it turned out to be of no value.

 

[joe117]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

A money back guarantee may be an indicator of the manufacturers knowledge that the product is a good one and that the customer will be satisfied with it.

I receive a large number of spam emails offering various products. I haven't done any testing but I would question the value of some of these products. Their claims seem unbelievable.

All of these products come with a money back guarantee.

 

[GTS-R 001]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Joe117,

VIPAIR is now like SPAM?? Joe you are so funny! How do those K&N's that you bought just for looks work Joe? Did you know that Russ has irrefutable dyno proof that K&N's do not work? If this is the company I keep in products that do not work than you GOT ME Joe!!

The basis for which I think that RussM's test is invalid is the following:
"We then decided to eat lunch and show once and for all how so many people get abnormaly high numbers when compared to others. The pulls from here on out were all made with the hood closed and a single 90mph fan blowing into the naca duct."

Russ is artificially feeding 90 mph air directly into the NACA duct instead of having the fans only orientated at the front of the car ... all fans should be directed at the front of the car to simulate the airflow as if the car is travelling through the air. Not directed directly at the NACA duct, why because as Russ stated...

Quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ,
How do you explain the fact that your results are different than those measured by the GTSR Lemans developers at Chryler? Didn't they find that there was a vaccuum situation created at speed with the stock airbox and NACA duct?
Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes they did but that was on the outside of the hood. They discovered that the air pocket arround the naca duct at certain speeds restricted flow into the duct.

If this is the case then Russ knows that air should not have been introduced via the NACA duct, air should only have been blown at the entire front of the car only.

As for how much horsepower affects ET try this calculator ( http://www.douglevinmotorsports.com/HP_calc.htm ) supplied by Doug Levin Motor sport, thanks Doug, enter vehicle weight approx 3550 with driver trap speed of 122 and Et of 12.0 and then try ET of 11.8... the difference is approx 21 HP, WOW!!

Russ if it makes you feel better to sell the Vipair and keep the cash do so, I ahve no hard feeling towards you, I just think that the test could have been done better and in a way that closer simulates real world driving, and then you would have gotten and increase just as you did when you opened your hood you got a horse power increase, this proves that more cold air got into the engine as compared top having the hood closed.

 

[Russ M]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Joe117,

VIPAIR is now like SPAM?? Joe you are so funny! How do those K&N's that you bought just for looks work Joe? Did you know that Russ has irrefutable dyno proof that K&N's do not work? If this is the company I keep in products that do not work than you GOT ME Joe!!

The basis for which I think that RussM's test is invalid is the following:
"We then decided to eat lunch and show once and for all how so many people get abnormaly high numbers when compared to others. The pulls from here on out were all made with the hood closed and a single 90mph fan blowing into the naca duct."

Russ is artificially feeding 90 mph air directly into the NACA duct instead of having the fans only orientated at the front of the car ... all fans should be directed at the front of the car to simulate the airflow as if the car is travelling through the air. Not directed directly at the NACA duct, why because as Russ stated...

Quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Russ,
How do you explain the fact that your results are different than those measured by the GTSR Lemans developers at Chryler? Didn't they find that there was a vaccuum situation created at speed with the stock airbox and NACA duct?
Steve
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes they did but that was on the outside of the hood. They discovered that the air pocket arround the naca duct at certain speeds restricted flow into the duct.

If this is the case then Russ knows that air should not have been introduced via the NACA duct, air should only have been blown at the entire front of the car only.

As for how much horsepower affects ET try this calculator ( http://www.douglevinmotorsports.com/HP_calc.htm ) supplied by Doug Levin Motor sport, thanks Doug, enter vehicle weight approx 3550 with driver trap speed of 122 and Et of 12.0 and then try ET of 11.8... the difference is approx 21 HP, WOW!!

Russ if it makes you feel better to sell the Vipair and keep the cash do so, I ahve no hard feeling towards you, I just think that the test could have been done better and in a way that closer simulates real world driving, and then you would have gotten and increase just as you did when you opened your hood you got a horse power increase, this proves that more cold air got into the engine as compared top having the hood closed.

Edmonton,

I have many dyno pulls with my car on the same dyno, hood open, hood closed, fan blowing and so on, the results are always within acceptable fluctuation pull to pull. Which means that opening the hood or putting the fan on it is not going to add power, just make sure that heat soak is not going to affect the outcome.

I had 2 90 mph fans blowing into the facia and NACA duct for the Vipair testing why are you not upset about that?

The airpocket was discovered at 120mph or so, how is having a 90mph fan going to be different than real world driving?

 

[Russ M]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Anyone in or close to Socal have a Vericom or Gtech unit installed on their Viper?

I would love to put the Vipair on and see if we can measure any performance gains at 100mph+.

 

[Vipermed 97.01]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

EdmontonGTS
You have been saying that Russ did not perform a truly unbiased test. I don't think I ever heard the basis of your accusation.

Just so we know, please tell us if you think Russ reported false results.

I'm sure that you are unbiased in your insistance that Vipair will do what you claim.

Just so everyone knows how unbiased you are, why don't you tell us how much money you have invested in this product and thus, how much you would lose if it turned out to be of no value.

Just out of curiosity what would be the perfect investment # for you not to disect it with critisizm......lets see low investment, well how can the product possibly work with the little amt of time and money invested.high scenario.well these guys got so much money invested in this they will do anything to recoupe.So Joe117 what is the magic number that would satisfy your curiosity.Well i think 9 pages later we have all come to realise short of NASA testing and opening all of our books to you(none of which will ever happen)satisfaction on your end cant be had.But believe it or not i do appreciate your time and thought into this product

 

[vipah]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

This thread has conclusively proved two theories:

1) the P.T. Barnum theory: "There is a sucker born every minute"
2) Anonymous: "No good dead goes unpunished"

Now we just need to set a record for the longest thread in VCA history to complete the trifecta!

 

[Russ M]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

The sad thing is that here I am testing, testing and more testing in hopes of coming up with something that will produce power. In the hopes of one day creating something of my own to say I did that, and it works.

When in reality all I should have done was build something, make it look nice, and say it works. Would be much cheaper this way and keep costs to produce way down. Not to mention save me countless hours of useless dyno time.

And at the same time I would also be able to through personal insults at the people who claimed my great looking product didnt work.

 

[GTS-R 001]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

RussM,

Re your question "I had 2 90 mph fans blowing into the facia and NACA duct for the Vipair testing why are you not upset about that? "

Russ you should not have had any fans directed at the NACA duct, you should have only had fans pointed at the front of the car for all the tests, maybe you should try again, if you like you can call me and I shall pay for the dyno time, I will give your dyno shop a visa # to bill for the session.

Russ, believe me I do appreciate all your testing and I understand your frustration, I am looking forward to the G-Tech Pro tests as this is also one of the tests that we discussed that should be done when I sent you the no charge VIPAIR™. I think that this whole thread has gone astray with all the childish crap and illogic from Vipah and Joe117,

Steve

 

[joe117]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

EdmontonGTS,
Too bad you think my comments are "childish crap and illogic".
I can tell you this much. There is no logic to any of your problems with the testing that Russ did.

The testing you did was much less comprehensive that his.

The claims of seat of the pants improvement have not been noticed by anyone else.


You have quite a bit of time and money invested in Vipair. I do not believe that you will let anyone provide any proof that it does not work.


I believe you are simply trying to sell Vipair.
You will attack anyone who questions it.
You are not, as some have said, "a stand up guy".
You look more like a guy who would sell junk to his friends.

 

[Mike Brunton]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

EdmontonGTS,
Too bad you think my comments are "childish crap and illogic".
I can tell you this much. There is no logic to any of your problems with the testing that Russ did.

The testing you did was much less comprehensive that his.

The claims of seat of the pants improvement have not been noticed by anyone else.


You have quite a bit of time and money invested in Vipair. I do not believe that you will let anyone provide any proof that it does not work.


I believe you are simply trying to sell Vipair.
You will attack anyone who questions it.
You are not, as some have said, "a stand up guy".
You look more like a guy who would sell junk to his friends.

Joe, I totally see where you are coming from, and like you I have a scientific approach to things like this. I'm especially skeptical of horsepower claims after I was disappointed as a teenager when my "throttle body airfoil" I bought for my Vette with my hard earned part-time after-shool job did not actually give me the 20hp or whatever they claimed. I'm sure we can all relate.

Having said that, I think Vipermed may have misspoken (and the reason for that is not important - I'm guessing it was just a mistake) if/when any claim towards increased airbox pressures was made.

Now, the reason I replied to this thread, is because it was me that said Steve is a stand up guy. I don't think its fair to say he is selling snake oil, because honestly, there are other tests I think would be required before anyone could say that, such as

1) Do you pick up MPH at the drag strip? This is HARD to measure because you need a CONSISTENT drive making lots of runs with and without in a placebo-type environment with as controlled conditions (temp of engine, ambient temp) as you can get.

2) Is the temp inside the airbox different with Vipair vs. without it? This is an easy test to do, but hasn't been done yet

3) I *believe* the manifold will have a lower pressure than ambient because the cylinders have large vacuum and are "sucking" air out of the manifold. There is probably some restriction in the factory intake box. Does the Vipair "channel" air into the manifold to reduce the vacuum in the manifold, therby ensuring more air for the cylinders = more HP? Is that within the realm of physics? I honestly don't know, and it's been so long since I took fluid dynamics that I'm not the one to say. But I do know that you could probably test it with a pressure sensor in the manifold. I think Doug said "it's not the pressure, it's the flow" when talking about superchargers. Maybe a mass-airflow sensor would be the test to do? I don't know for sure, but I think that would be another valid test.

My point is that I don't think it's been proven that Vipair doesn't work. Personally, I think Russ did a very good test and in a controlled manner, but I also don't think fans simulate actual airflow at speed. Then again, I don't think Russ was testing that, but rather "does it pick up HP on a dyno".

The book isn't closed on this one for sure, but I think it's not fair to claim EdmontonGTS would lie because he has money in this. Does anyone think these guys are openly trying to just rip people off? Come on - I don't know and probably should keep my mouth shut about it, but I don't think he exactly is someone who needs the money. Some folks are getting pissy, which I can relate to and understand, but like I said the book sure ain't closed yet and nobody can say "it doesn't work and thats proven".

Anyways, enough of the bickering for me - I will be looking forward to seeing what people might pick up at the drag strip, because after all, unless y'all do your racing on a dyno, that's where it would count

 

[Shelby3]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Well said Mr. Brunton.

 

[joe117]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Mike,
The pressure testing has been done. Vipair does not increase pressure in the airbox.

If you do not believe my comments to be "childish crap and illogic", I do not understand why you give him credit for being a "stand up guy".
The only reason he would attack me would be to deflect criticism of Vipair.

He has twisted the meaning of some of my posts. He has done this in an attempt to ridicule. These are not the tactics of a "stand up guy". His tactics are beginning to take on the appearance of a side show barker.

I believe he has purposely overstated the performance of his product in order to increase sales.


He has quite a bit of time and money invested in Vipair. I do not believe that he will let anyone provide any proof that it does not work.


I believe he is simply trying to sell Vipair.
He will attack anyone who questions it.
He is not, as some have said, "a stand up guy".
He look's more like a guy who would sell junk to his friends.

 

[joe117]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Any testing that shows Vipair to be worthless will be attacked as biased or poorly performed.

Any testing that shows Vipair to be useful will be accepted as logical proof.

It is clear at this point that there will be no further pretense by these people. They will attack unbelievers and embrace believers.

They are not to be trusted.

 

[vipah]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

" I think that this whole thread has gone astray with all the childish crap and illogic from Vipah and Joe117"

Illogical??? I said long ago that I didn't think that this product would provide gains and that the temp difference, if any, would be equivilent to the $50 advantage product since it uses the same theory.

I have chosen to use satyr since logic doesn't seem to work. How does the saying go --- "you can't argue with a crazy man" -- so I have chosen to have some fun instead.

My magic HP beans have a money back guarantee and the same level of proof of performance as vipair.

By the way, if it does prove someohow to work I still say the $50 advantage product would do the same. So I would like to understand the benefit for the extra $150.

Basically what I hear most of the proponents saying is that the benfits of the vipair can not be proven, but trust us they are real. Funny, that is the same for my magic HP beans.


I am not accusing the sellers of intentionally trying to dupe people. I am saying they have not, in my opinion, adequately proven their claims. I have no reason to believe that they are not trying their best to make a product that they feel works and provides benefits, and to that I tip my hat.