VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

[J DAWG]

Re: RALPH NADER vs. VIPAIR

I agree, my official tittle is demiGod however when the group of cars are ALL vipers the response from mods should be identical.

That's a pretty bold statement....so let us say we have a 96 GTS and my 01 RT. We both put CORSA, headers, and remove the cats. By your statement our gains should be "identical" if I am reading your post correctly....Mr. demiGOD.

Should be fairly obvious to you that I mean identical cars. Since 96's and 01's have different cams/pistons obviously the power results will be different.

I am still gonna have to disagree with you on that as well....respectfully. Since DC did not balance/blueprint these cars in any year, they will still yield different numbers based on inherient variances in the powertrain. I am sure I can find a couple of graphs where people put Corsa on their 96's and some may have gotten 20+ and some did not. But then we get into how was the car tested, what conditions and all that.

So my entire point is why should anyone believe any one test and not the other. In this case specifically, you dyno over the 2 other that have been done.

 

[vipah]

Re: MAGIC HP BEANS vs. VIPAIR

Just watch. The magic beans will reduce the deficit by $30B by the end of the year. I gaurantee it!

 

[Sam 01 RT10]

GIVE ME A DOZEN MAGIC BEANS, PLEASE!!!

I'll order some magic beans, just to help my neighboring state.
The extra 120hp I get will just be a bonus.

 

[J DAWG]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Russ, why was pressure testing done? All of the claims I have seen, like the following quote from Steve, refer to gains being related to cooler air, not increased air pressure. So does the lack of a pressure change prove or disprove anything related to the VIPAIR?

Joe117,

If you drive your car in the early morning and it is cold out, does your car feel faster? Does it feel like it has more power? I do not think that you can answer no to either of these questions. The Vipair brings in cold air and the faster you go the more cold air you get. The fan used in the dyno shop for this run was not very powerful and if it had been more powerful the gains would probably have ben more.

Read above we are eliminating the BS by offering a money back if not sattisfied. Nobody is trying to pull the wool over your eyes here, just offer you a product that gives you more performance for a relatively cheap price.

 

[Russ M]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

I was asked to do the pressure testing by the Vipair folks.

My inital plan was just to dyno test, but when they said to do pressure I agreed.

JDAWG,

You can agree or disagree all you like, fact of the matter is Vipers are very consistent on power when equal cars are compared.

The hp variations you see on the internet are all dyno related. Go to the next dyno day in your area and compare for yourself. I did and found that most vipers are within a few hp with idential mods.

 

[J DAWG]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

I did and found that most vipers are within a few hp with idential mods.

I have no problem agreeing with that statement versus your initial one.

 

[GTS-R 001]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

---VIPAIR™ REALITY CHECK---

1)RUSSM, while I appreciate the testing, I do find that in Russ's test he put the 90mph fan "directed at the NACA duct" this is a no no, the fan is artificially introducing cool ambient air with velocity that would not exhist in the real world ( as per Russ's own admission that there is a negative air pressure situation at the NACA duct ) therefore testing is VOID!!! the fan should have been in front of the car for all tests period to simulate airflow on teh front of the car this is how it was set up for my dyno tests that acoording to some don't exhist??? even though they are posted on this thread.

PS. Russ you actually proved the theory of the VIPAIR™ correct when you opened your hood! Think about it before your reply. You got a horse power gain with less restriction direct path air!!

2) Joe117 you do not understand how a ram air device works on a car ! It does not act like a supercharger, it will not create boost it simply, I repeat simply, pushes air through the filter that would normally have to be sucked through the filter, UNDERSTAND!! If you stand in front of a 300 mph fan with a boost guage you wil not register any boost only air pressure that can push cool air through a filter, ie less restriction, more air available to fill the cylinders when the valves open, not under boost just less restriction, GET IT? I thought I would give you guys enough rope to hang yourselves on this one and you took it, tied the noose and put it over the branch around your necks!

3) Vipah, do you have a dyno test for those beans done by Russ? Do you eat them or are they suppositories?

J DAWG and Devlidog thanks for bringing common sense to this thread.

 

[jason427]

Re: RALPH NADER vs. VIPAIR

I received my Vipair today. From a looks/coolness standpoint I give it a big THUMBS UP!
Nice instructions also, not that you need them.

I will report back with the findings that matter.... to me that is.
Dragstrip and how the car feels. I drive my Viper every day so I have a pretty good feel for the car.

I will post results in a new thread as I don't like where this one went. I am not affiliated with ViperMed, Vipair, or anyone who has anything to do with this product.

I am a guy who just loves Vipers, and even more so I love mods. Every car I have ever owned has been modded in some way.
Enthusiast tuners should be our favorite people cause without them we would not have great products like Roe/Belanger/CCW etc... These guys have a passion for our cars, not just trying to make a buck on our passion for these cars.

For some reason the testing by a forum member seemed negative from the get-go (((THIS IS MY OPINION))
I could be wrong.

That is why I am going to see for myself which is what everyone should do. Not slam a new product based on one persons results.

Thanks,
Jason

 

[Big Medicine]

Re: RALPH NADER vs. VIPAIR

If you RAN down the hall with a vacuum cleaner turned on & the hose held out in front of you, will you **** more air in than STANDING in the hall with the hose held out in front of you?

 

[DEVILDOG]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

---VIPAIR™ REALITY CHECK---

1)RUSSM, while I appreciate the testing, I do find that in Russ's test he put the 90mph fan "directed at the NACA duct" this is a no no, the fan is artificially introducing cool ambient air with velocity that would not exhist in the real world ( as per Russ's own admission that there is a negative air pressure situation at the NACA duct ) therefore testing is VOID!!! the fan should have been in front of the car for all tests period to simulate airflow on teh front of the car this is how it was set up for my dyno tests that acoording to some don't exhist??? even though they are posted on this thread.

PS. Russ you actually proved the theory of the VIPAIR™ correct when you opened your hood! Think about it before your reply. You got a horse power gain with less restriction direct path air!!

2) Joe117 you do not understand how a ram air device works on a car ! It does not act like a supercharger, it will not create boost it simply, I repeat simply, pushes air through the filter that would normally have to be sucked through the filter, UNDERSTAND!! If you stand in front of a 300 mph fan with a boost guage you wil not register any boost only air pressure that can push cool air through a filter, ie less restriction, more air available to fill the cylinders when the valves open, not under boost just less restriction, GET IT? I thought I would give you guys enough rope to hang yourselves on this one and you took it, tied the noose and put it over the branch around your necks!

3) Vipah, do you have a dyno test for those beans done by Russ? Do you eat them or are they suppositories?

J DAWG and Devlidog thanks for bringing common sense to this thread.

Above makes perfect common sense to me and I trust the dyno testing you did. I will be receiving my final modified production version VIPAIR that you developed for guys/gals with Henn ess ey carbon fibre boxes and will post results after our next N. Texas VCA dyno day event.

 

[DEVILDOG]

Re: RALPH NADER vs. VIPAIR

If you RAN down the hall with a vacuum cleaner turned on & the hose held out in front of you, will you **** more air in than STANDING in the hall with the hose held out in front of you?

I think it depends on how FAST you can RUN and how WIDE and LONG your hose is!

 

[jason427]

Re: RALPH NADER vs. VIPAIR

You must be registered for see images

How do I get this image under my name??? I did not see a place for it.

Anyway... I put the Vipair on tonight. Fits perfect, and looks really cool. I took the car for a ride and it felt strong. Did it feel like 50rwhp... no, but it does feel real good. It is of course hard to feel 5, 10, 15 horsepower, but I drive the car every day and I can say it does feel a bit better. Seat of the pants is very subjective. I will get to the track as soon as I can and do some back to back testing. I may rent the track with some friends and then get plenty of runs in.

Thanks,
Jason

 

[Cris]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

---VIPAIR™ REALITY CHECK---

...

2) Joe117 you do not understand how a ram air device works on a car ! It does not act like a supercharger, it will not create boost it simply, I repeat simply, pushes air through the filter that would normally have to be sucked through the filter, UNDERSTAND!! If you stand in front of a 300 mph fan with a boost guage you wil not register any boost only air pressure that can push cool air through a filter, ie less restriction, more air available to fill the cylinders when the valves open, not under boost just less restriction, GET IT? I thought I would give you guys enough rope to hang yourselves on this one and you took it, tied the noose and put it over the branch around your necks!

I think you need a reality check. And maybe a little schooling in engineering. Are you saying air can do work without pressure. Bernouli would be rolling in his grave. There are only 2 ways that the Vipair can work. 1) By creating a positive pressure (so called ram air effect - so named as it uses the inertial energia of the fluid (air) due to the fluids relative velocity) or 2) Reduced inlet air temperature.

Russ measured the pressure and demonstrated the lack of benefit in that arena. The remaining test is the easiest. Tap into the inlet temperature sensor and measure the voltage (measure it at 2 known temperatures and you will know the relationship between volts and temperature). Then do back to back tests at a constant speed and record how much cooler it is. You can then input the temperature difference into the SAE power correction equation to determine the expected horsepower increase due to lower temps. Factual based analysis. That is all that is needed. Then armchair engineers can go back to what they do best. Whatever that is.

 

[vipah]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Edmonton) I put the Magic HP beans in the gas tank of the car, but you can do what ever floats your boat.

Since no one else knows how to properly dyno a car that is using the beans you won't get the right results on a dyno. I have done extensive testing in the proper fashion for the beans and they do show the gains.

Money back guarantee.

 

[Nexus-6]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Edmonton) I put the Magic HP beans in the gas tank of the car, but you can do what ever floats your boat.

Since no one else knows how to properly dyno a car that is using the beans you won't get the right results on a dyno. I have done extensive testing in the proper fashion for the beans and they do show the gains.

Money back guarantee.

lol...

 

[Russ M]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

When AEM is closer to finishing the Viper unit, I will through it in my car and monitor the air temps.

Edmonton,

Any chance you guys have a factory airbox on which you can design something to block off the water drains? I think with that blocked we might see some positive pressure in the damn thing.

 

[joe117]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Here's what you said,
"2) Joe117 you do not understand how a ram air device works on a car ! It does not act like a supercharger, it will not create boost it simply, I repeat simply, pushes air through the filter that would normally have to be sucked through the filter, UNDERSTAND!! If you stand in front of a 300 mph fan with a boost guage you wil not register any boost only air pressure that can push cool air through a filter, ie less restriction, more air available to fill the cylinders when the valves open, not under boost just less restriction, GET IT? I thought I would give you guys enough rope to hang yourselves on this one and you took it, tied the noose and put it over the branch around your necks!"

I know this sound's like it would be true. It seem's to make sense.
The problem is that it is not true.
You can not get any boost at car speeds by scooping up air.

I posted a link to a technical article about the ram air myth.

What you are saying is that Vipair can get more air into the box without a measurable pressure increase.
You say,
"it simply, I repeat simply, pushes air through the filter that would normally have to be sucked through the filter,"

I say,
The only thing that makes the air flow from one place to some other place is a pressure difference. This is a fact.

If you believe that your device can give air a running start at the airbox and sort of go in there using some kind of momentum, then I can understand why you are confused.

You do not have enough information to properly design or evaluate your product.
You need to understand that fluid dynamics is much more complex than one would think and it often works in ways that are not intuitive.

If you continue to ignore physics, I and others will have to conclude that you are not doing so through ignorance.

 

[joe117]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Testers,
Those of you who wish to test Vipair for SOTP power and better times at the drags, listen up.

If you want to make valid comparisons with and without Vipair, you will need to at least do the testing without knowing if Vipair is in place or not.

I think everyone knows how subjective it can be to try to tell if your car has a little more or less power. A perception of gain can be all in your head.

To avoid this, you must have a helper who can remove and reinstall Vipair. You drive and write down your results.
Do a number of tests without knowing if Vipair is on the car or not.
Then compare the results.

This will remove some unintentional bias from the testing.

 

[joe117]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Here, again, is a link to a technical article on the Myth Of Ram Air.
I's an easy read. Take a look.

http://www.vetteguru.com/ramair/

 

[joe117]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

EdmontonGTS says,
"I thought I would give you guys enough rope to hang yourselves on this one and you took it, tied the noose and put it over the branch around your necks!"

You are starting to sound like PT Barnum.

By the way, just so we know how unbiased you are, how much money do you have ******* in Vipair?

What I'm getting at is this, what would you stand to lose if you had to admit that Vipair didn't work?

 

[FE 065]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Any chance you guys have a factory airbox on which you can design something to block off the water drains? I think with that blocked we might see some positive pressure in the damn thing.

[/QUOTE] Man this thread is like one long Seinfeld episode... The airbox drains can be blocked by simply pulling off the 3 short rubber drain hoses, taping up the ends of the plastic drains, and re-installing the hoses and their clamps for added measure. How tough is that? You'll still have to seal the mating edges of the upper and lower airbox halves to hope for max pressure gain. I mentioned waaay back in this thread that I can recall an old Hot Rod or Car Craft magazine article where they put a univeral-fit ram air system on a car and got a gain. It was a large round air filter housing with two snorkels for dryer hose to clamp to. The hose went down to two scoops under the front bumper. But, the only way they finally got the gain with the system was to tape up the lid and connections where the hoses clamped up at the air cleaner housing and at the scoops. You can buy a small indoor/outdoor thermometer with remote sending unit on a 12' or so cord from Oregon Scientific for like $15. The model number on mine is NAW881EXT. Wasn't it engineer types quoting the laws of physics who 35 or 40yrs ago predicted a rail could never go faster than 150mph in the 1/4 mile after calculating traction, weight etc?? Those magazines got similar letters for years from engineering students questioning how it was being done. Here's a real-world test. Stick your head out the window at 100mph and open your mouth see what happens?? Can you breath easier? Drive and love

 

[J DAWG]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Here's a real-world test. Stick your head out the window at 100mph and open your mouth see what happens?? Can you breath easier? Drive and love

Great analogy.





ps - What's for breakfast?

 

[OutThere]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

I just wanted to be a part of this never-ending threat from he**.

PS - VIPAIR = P.O.S.

 

[joe117]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

"Wasn't it engineer types quoting the laws of physics who 35 or 40yrs ago predicted a rail could never go faster than 150mph in the 1/4 mile after calculating traction, weight etc?? Those magazines got similar letters for years from engineering students questioning"

Yes, it was the engineering types that were mistaken. They thought the dragsters rear wheels put power to the ground through friction. Had that been the case, the limit of acceleration would be 1g. That 1g would limit the car to a potential of about 150mph in a 1/4 mile.
They found that it wasn't just friction. There was a tooth effect, sort of like tiny gear teeth giving a bite into the pavement.

No new physics was discovered. Engineering types figured it out.

 

[DEVILDOG]

Re: RALPH NADER vs. VIPAIR

You must be registered for see images

How do I get this image under my name??? I did not see a place for it.

Anyway... I put the Vipair on tonight. Fits perfect, and looks really cool. I took the car for a ride and it felt strong. Did it feel like 50rwhp... no, but it does feel real good. It is of course hard to feel 5, 10, 15 horsepower, but I drive the car every day and I can say it does feel a bit better. Seat of the pants is very subjective. I will get to the track as soon as I can and do some back to back testing. I may rent the track with some friends and then get plenty of runs in.

Thanks,
Jason

You need to be a VCA Member to have an avatar.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Here's a real-world test. Stick your head out the window at 100mph and open your mouth see what happens?? Can you breath easier? Drive and love

Great example of why engineers get paid to use their brains and the engineering sciences instead of sticking their head out the window.

 

[FE 065]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Here's a real-world test. Stick your head out the window at 100mph and open your mouth see what happens?? Can you breath easier? Drive and love

Great example of why engineers get paid to use their brains and the engineering sciences instead of sticking their head out the window.

The engineers would spend their time trying to re-design the window track, debating which was the more efficient way for the crank to turn, and instrumenting the knob.

 

[ViperJoe]

Re: RALPH NADER vs. VIPAIR

You need to be a VCA Member to have an avatar.

Yeah! Cough up the money bro! This ain't no free ride! LOL!!!!!!

 

[1TONY1]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Here's a real-world test. Stick your head out the window at 100mph and open your mouth see what happens?? Can you breath easier?

Funny as hell !! That would be southern engineering.

FYI, My airplane has a factory ram air hole in the front of the engine cowling....behind the hole there is a throttle body type flap that is actuated by a handle/cable. It also bypasses the filters and is good for .5" of manifold pressure at 185 mph. On the ground (sitting still) at full throttle I don't think there would be an increase. Probably means nothing in this discussion.

 

[SNKEBIT]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

I coughed up the money a month ago & still haven't gotten a VCA #!!!!!!!! I want to put my avatar up too!!

p.s. money-back garantee!!!!! period!!!!!!