Viper Crash on Mulholland Highway near Los Angeles, California

[v10viperbox]

Lost Traction. Why? V10VIPERBOX....any idea the year of Viper??

No idea on the year. I did not press to much for details just if anyone survived. My understanding is that is was a over throttle issue not a road condition issue but I withhold judgment until I see the pictures off the road condition.

But given that the viper was hit on the wrong side of the road in the passenger door I would assume that fault lies there.

PERSONAL OPINION.

This type of stuff just kills me. Part of me wants cars like this off the road for anyone who does not hold some sort of competitive driving license.

Part of me thinks the nanny controls are needed at this stage given the raw number of totaled cars. Maybe a key'd switch in the truck that turns them off at the track so you are actively disabling them and not able to do it from the cabin.

A alternative would be a low power mode, say 300hp for the first 1K miles of ownership or switchable from the cabin.

 

[WILDASP]

Hard to do before your FIRST day with the car. So wouldn't help here would it?
Taking it easy would be the other option, but even with that the car can be have surprising torque for most drivers. Even drivers of other exotics, and even previous Viper owners.
There are other options, of course, and we have discussed them in other threads. Like gun control, the consensus appears to be the lives lost are a worthwhile trade-off for the freedom that we enjoy. Easy to talk about in the abstract, but doesn't make the loss of an individual like this kid any easier for anyone does it?

No, Cop, it doesn't, and that was the point of what I posted earlier. Here's the situation as I see it. We asked for a car that was a raw, uncomplicated, street-legal racer. We got it. We asked for a real driver's car. without a bunch of complications. We got it. We asked for better handling. Dodge gave it to us. We asked for more power. Dodge gave it to us. We asked for a better gearbox. Dodge gave it to us. The car has gotten better; whether the drivers have is another story.

I suppose the inevitable question is whether TC/ESC would have prevented this accident. To tell the truth, I don't know. What I do know, is that with 500+ hp it is definitely possible to overpower an ESC, because I've done it (IN A CLOSED ENVIRONMENT) intentionally (with a CZ06). I had to violate my instincts and training to do it, but it is possible, at least under some conditions.Where I'm going with this is that I'm afraid that giving some people TC/ESC in a 600hp car, is that it may encourage them to take even more risks, thereby making the situation even worse. The only thing worse than having an average driver get into a 600hp car, and start thinking he's the next Mario Andretti, is having him think he's also ten feet tall and bulletproof when he isn't.

So what's left? Well, I do know that a healthy amount of fear and a good dose of common sense would have prevented this tragedy (and a lot of others). So would a sense of personal responsibility( of the kind that has increasingly become unfashionable in our society lately). I actually like the gun control analogy, because this car is a lot like a loaded gun. Used properly, it will serve and protect you well; Used improperly or carelessly, it will kill you, or someone else, maybe someone you love. Too many people fail to get that understanding, and when something bad happens, the current tendency is to blame the tool, not the operator. That's unfortunate, because just like most accidental shootings, this incident was completely preventable. A few words of warning, to the effect that "Sudden throttle application in this car can and will kill you!" would have sufficed (had they been heeded, of course). How we get that across, I'm not sure, but we have to find a better way. Setting the right example, as ambassadors of the Viper Nation (which we as Viper drivers are, whether we want to be or not) is a start in the right direction. Doing all we can to educate newcomers to the fold is another. If there's more we can do, I for one am open to suggestions. The key is that if we don't do something, Big Brother is going to step in and do it for us, and we won't like the result.

We asked for this car. We got it. Now we have to do our best to make sure we and others enjoy it responsibly and safely.

 

[ACRsnake]

very sad . RIP

 

[Cop Magnet]

Wild Asp, I could not have said it better.

 

[Newport Viper]

You must be registered for see images

eyes are getting old but the calipers look red. So 04,05 year. Must have been run flats cause its never the driver.... R.I.P...... this story really *****

 

[JimK]

When I try for even a minute to put myself in this mans shoes and imagine what he must feel like, my chest actually hurts! Its almost unimaginable - going from what must have been one of his most happy life-moments to his worst within seconds. You really never know from one minute to the next in life! Things like this really puts in perspective any problems I think I might have...

I seriously hope and pray that he is consolable! I'd personally want to go myself...

Jim

 

[jdeft1]

There are no words. Nothing can be said about this incident that will help anyone involved. So sorry.. We see too many viper wrecks here.

Please don't blame the car. It's a tool like any other and must be used and handled properly.

 

[HSSSSSS]

It is so sad and tragic. Our prayers and hearts go out to the family. The loss of a youth, no matter what the circumstances, is always tragic.

However, with the amount of country our club covers, I do not feel the ratio of wrecks is any greater with the Viper than with any other car. It is an issue with us because we hate to see or hear of any Viper being damaged since we are so passionate about the looks of our cars. We post most of the major Viper wrecks in at least two countries and part of Europe, about one every two or three weeks on average? Less often in winter as only about 1/4 of the cars are being driven for 5 months.

 

[TrackAire]

Wow, what a terrible loss for that family. It really does send chills down my spine.....I can't for a moment imagine what that father must be going through. Plus, we must not forget about the other driver. Being involved in a serious accident were a death has occured stays with you forever, even if it was not your fault. The feeling of guilt and helplessness in a situation like this can be overwhelming.

Please understand that I do not know the facts first hand or claim that this was a "speeding", "racing" or "showing off" incident. I'm not blaming anyone nor do I mean to come across as such in this sad time. The following are just my experiences and opinions.

I found out a long time ago that you just can't drive fast on open public roads and be safe, period. No amount of driver training, Viper Days training, competition driving, performance driving schools, etc can make you safe if "racing" on public hiways or roads. There are just too many unknowns that race tracks just don't have. First, there is oncoming traffic. Second, there are no flaggers to warn you about a problem around a corner. Third, you just don't know if there is gravel, dirt, oil, or any other traction limiting substance on the road ahead of you. Fourth, there are trees, posts, guardrails and other physical "things" that aren't on a race track or at least near the racing surface. I'm sure there are more, but you get the idea.

The most dangerous Viper driver may be the one that goes to a couple of HPDE's days and thinks he's a pro. Performance training will definately help you control your Viper better than no training. Can this give someone the false confidence to push their car on the street harder than is prudent?? I guess it just depends on the person. Speeding, racing or showing off on the road just has too many variables.

Here are the hard facts...the Viper is probably one of the safest cars on the hiway when driven at the posted speed limits. It stops better than 99% of any other car. It has abundant traction to corner at any posted speed without even breathing hard. I would think that it is impossible to flip a Viper over when cornering at the posted speed limits. Is it fun to drive this way? No. Is it fun to take someone out and show them the performance of the car? Yes. Have most of us done this? Yes. And 99.9% of the time there is never an issue or incident.

We've all had situations where a decision or action 10 seconds sooner or 10 seconds later would have changed your life forever. I wish there was an easy answer to ease everyones pain. Prayers to all involved in this heartbreak tragedy.

George

 

[Warfang]

I thank God every morning that my son (when he sold me the Viper) told me it was potentially easier to destroy than his GSRX 1000 Suzuki. I really didn t believe him but was extra careful. Probably saved my life....

A responsible thing to do anytime you hand Viper keys over to anyone who has never driven one before... even though some members here don't seem to think so.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

The most dangerous Viper driver may be the one that goes to a couple of HPDE's days and thinks he's a pro.

Those guys might be bad but the most dangerous is the driver who thinks he is a pro and doesn't have ANY HPDE's under his belt. I'd like to see stats on the most heartbreaking Viper crashes and how many of them were by drivers with no track time vs. those with track time. I'm talking about track time on a road track not a dragstrip.

 

[VENUM INJECTION]

My thoughts and prayers go out to those families. Such a horrible set of circumstances. That will not be an easy emotional recovery for those involved.

 

[Cop Magnet]

Those guys might be bad but the most dangerous is the driver who thinks he is a pro and doesn't have ANY HPDE's under his belt. I'd like to see stats on the most heartbreaking Viper crashes and how many of them were by drivers with no track time vs. those with track time. I'm talking about track time on a road track not a dragstrip.

Track time never hurts, but I am not sure it helps as much as people think. All you have to do is look at the posts. MANY of the people who report being "snake bitten" are experienced Viper drivers, even track rats. So the stock answer "get some seat time at a HPDE" may not be the only answer or even the best answer.

TrackAire's point is worth considering. NO amount of track time prepares you for cold tires, dew on the pavement, sudden application of throttle, intentional wheel spin, major camber changes, variable traffic, etc. Those conditions do not exist on the track. They only exist on the street. Even if you did drive like that on the track, they will ask you to leave, pronto. Don't believe me, do a burnout the next time you pull out of the grid. This is the type of thing people do on the street that gets them in trouble. Maybe the best advice in this regard has been in the "take it to a parking lot" thread.

Bottom line, the Viper is a no-holds barred car. Unbelievable torque, rear wheel drive, questionable diff perhaps, bad tires in certain years for sure, and it is thrown out to the public with little thought to the aftermath. Sure, it is perfect for track rats like you or I. But the car can't be sold just to "purists".

I don't want to take away from the tragedy here, or diminish my expression of sorrow in any way. So I will leave it at that.

 

[Fatboy 18]

Very Very sad

Nothing to add

Mark

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Track time never hurts, but I am not sure it helps as much as people think. All you have to do is look at the posts. MANY of the people who report being "snake bitten" are experienced Viper drivers, even track rats. So the stock answer "get some seat time at a HPDE" may not be the only answer or even the best answer.

Short of limiting the Viper to 200 hp, yes track time is the best answer.

Track time does a few things. The obvious being training as in how to handle a Viper. Another is the learning of the effects surface conditions can have and how much more dangerous street conditions are at all times compared to a track.

The not so obvious is filling one's desire for spirited driving. Track it and street action gets relatively boring.

 

[Janni]

I think the "no so obvious" benefit is the most important.

After tracking or even autocrossing a Viper, you realize that there's nothing you can do on the street that will give you that same euphoria as hitting hte high speed esses perfectly at VIR, or heading into a four wheel drift around some silly cones in a parking lot and having those huge tires grip and scream for all they are worth.

You pay more attention to conditions, you warm your car up, you warm your tires up, and you understand vehicle dynamics - all that just appears to be drilled into your head at the track - and you think about maintenance, and when the last time you checked your lugnuts / tire pressure was, and how important stuff like that is, etc. You just think differently - and THAT makes you a safer driver.

 

[Cop Magnet]

Deleted. Sorry, I think we should focus on the child, not politics and whatnot. There'll be another place for that.
As the father of four, aged 10-18, I can only imagine the pain the father and the rest of the family will go through for the rest of their lives. Truly tragic. My heart goes out to them.

 

[VIPER BAZ UK]

Having a five year old daughter i can't even imagine what the Dad is going through

 

[V10SpeedLuvr]

This is the saddest Viper story I can remember reading since I joined the site. Prayers going out to all involved. I can't even imagine what the dad must be going through. Even if he recovers physically, how will he be treated by the rest of the family since he is responsible (from what we know) for the death of his daughter? This story just ***** from every single angle. May Jessica RIP

 

[ViperTony]

Having a five year old daughter i can't even imagine what the Dad is going through

5 & 7 year old daughters here...I feel for him...I don't know how I would be able to live through something like that. This is just an awful and sad situation.

 

[v10viperbox]

I have heard a small bit more, Viper driver is in a induced coma. Viper family has already filed a suit on the FJ driver.

Given the CHP report which I have been giving the rundown on I doubt that will go anywhere. But the FJ driver has not even gotten out of the hospital and they are circling. I am NOT HAPPY.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Viper family has already filed a suit on the FJ driver.

Wait a minute. The Viper crossed the centerline and veered into the Toyota FJ and the Viper family is suing the Toyota driver??? If that is the case I am guessing there will be a few rescinded condolences.

 

[bluesrt]

god speed for all

 

[v10viperbox]

Wait a minute. The Viper crossed the centerline and veered into the Toyota FJ and the Viper family is suing the Toyota driver??? If that is the case I am guessing there will be a few rescinded condolences.

My understanding is that the extended family of the Viper is the one doing it. Not specifically the owner who current is not speaking, that whole coma thing.

I will know more in a few days. I believe the CHP report will be released at some point. But to my understanding the FJ driver had moved off the road to the left to avoid the Viper and still hit it.

 

[newredrt10]

First prayers to the all families envoled.

As I read this it made me think my daughter and the things I did with her in the car. We of the OHVCA warn all new owners of snake bite. Many think we joking. I know of two that have been bitten after being warned. its no joke.

v10viperbox did you say the FJ was moving left or right off the road. If he was left of center they may make it stick. Here in Ohio you never go left of center. Too many people have paid the price for things that they were not at fault for going left of center.

 

[WILDASP]

My understanding is that the extended family of the Viper is the one doing it. Not specifically the owner who current is not speaking, that whole coma thing.

I will know more in a few days. I believe the CHP report will be released at some point. But to my understanding the FJ driver had moved off the road to the left to avoid the Viper and still hit it.

In todays environment, I guess that (litigation) is to be expected, unfortunately. Bad situation in every way, I think. I suppose the only positive that can come from something like this (if there's such a thing) is trying to learn how to prevent the next one. There have been some good comments on that in this thread. I suppose we won't know for sure until the final reports are in, but on the face of it, this seems to have all the earmaks of the classic sudden overthrottle thing we hear entirely too much of; barring something on the road, or catastrophic mechanical failure, of course.

I don't think there's any magic solution for this, unfortunately; same old little seat time in the car, public road, straight line circumstances . The stats I've heard (and wouldn't doubt) are sobering: 38% crashed in the first six months of ownership, 21% before 500 miles, mostly the same way. I don't know; driver attitude thing, maybe? The Viper just has a steep learning curve. I think Janni put it well; driving school, track, autocross just give a driver a different attitude and make one more attentive to those little details that are so important. I just feel sick when I hear about something like this; wish we could do something more to educate people.

 

[v10viperbox]

First prayers to the all families envoled.

As I read this it made me think my daughter and the things I did with her in the car. We of the OHVCA warn all new owners of snake bite. Many think we joking. I know of two that have been bitten after being warned. its no joke.

v10viperbox did you say the FJ was moving left or right off the road. If he was left of center they may make it stick. Here in Ohio you never go left of center. Too many people have paid the price for things that they were not at fault for going left of center.

Right of center to the shoulder of the road to avoid the crash.

 

[agentf1]

The CHP has not even issued a report yet. I think we are all going on assumptions here. Regardless of who's fault it is it is an incredibly sad story.

I think what we should all take away from this story is we need to be careful when we are driving our Vipers as accidents CAN and DO happen. We need to be diligent in trying to prevent them.

 

[CitySnake]

I found out a long time ago that you just can't drive fast on open public roads and be safe, period. No amount of driver training, Viper Days training, competition driving, performance driving schools, etc can make you safe if "racing" on public hiways or roads. There are just too many unknowns that race tracks just don't have. First, there is oncoming traffic. Second, there are no flaggers to warn you about a problem around a corner. Third, you just don't know if there is gravel, dirt, oil, or any other traction limiting substance on the road ahead of you. Fourth, there are trees, posts, guardrails and other physical "things" that aren't on a race track or at least near the racing surface. I'm sure there are more, but you get the idea.

The most dangerous Viper driver may be the one that goes to a couple of HPDE's days and thinks he's a pro. Performance training will definately help you control your Viper better than no training. Can this give someone the false confidence to push their car on the street harder than is prudent?? I guess it just depends on the person. Speeding, racing or showing off on the road just has too many variables.

Here are the hard facts...the Viper is probably one of the safest cars on the hiway when driven at the posted speed limits. It stops better than 99% of any other car. It has abundant traction to corner at any posted speed without even breathing hard. I would think that it is impossible to flip a Viper over when cornering at the posted speed limits. Is it fun to drive this way? No. Is it fun to take someone out and show them the performance of the car? Yes. Have most of us done this? Yes. And 99.9% of the time there is never an issue or incident.

George

Those guys might be bad but the most dangerous is the driver who thinks he is a pro and doesn't have ANY HPDE's under his belt. I'd like to see stats on the most heartbreaking Viper crashes and how many of them were by drivers with no track time vs. those with track time. I'm talking about track time on a road track not a dragstrip.

[

I think the "no so obvious" benefit is the most important.

After tracking or even autocrossing a Viper, you realize that there's nothing you can do on the street that will give you that same euphoria as hitting hte high speed esses perfectly at VIR, or heading into a four wheel drift around some silly cones in a parking lot and having those huge tires grip and scream for all they are worth.

You pay more attention to conditions, you warm your car up, you warm your tires up, and you understand vehicle dynamics - all that just appears to be drilled into your head at the track - and you think about maintenance, and when the last time you checked your lugnuts / tire pressure was, and how important stuff like that is, etc. You just think differently - and THAT makes you a safer driver.

These are some excellent thought provoking posts!
What struck me the most are some of George's comments (highlighted in red). A great deal of what we love the most about owning and driving a Viper is "toying" with danger. It may be difficult to admit, but the car IS an extension (to some extent) of our egos and all that comes from that.

In reading Chuck and Janni's posts, it occurred to me that the "negative image" of their observations may, in this case, actually bring about better (safer) results. Rather than learning and exercising the limits of our cars, might we (everyone) be better off learning just how bad it can get? Too bad there was not a means for new Viper owners to experience a "simulated" crash. I'm thinking that the experience of a few nightmarish crashes would have far more lingering effects than a day of high speed instruction. Not to suggest in the least that you'd be a better driver, but a detrimental experience would be better suited for the average Viper buyer and their habits while on the street. Just my thoughts.

 

[Cop Magnet]

On Mulholland Dr, moving to the right may not be an option. Unless you want to go over a cliff. If the oncoming driver looks as if he is going to pass the midline of your car, moving to the left makes perfect sense. What a sad, crazy, and f'ed up world of litigation we live in. But Obama says tort reform is unecessary