Viper currently in the shop and suspension advice?

[Martin2000GTS]

Viper currently in the shop need suspension advice please

Hey guys,
My viper is currently in the shop because my rear left tire keeps rubbing my fender. The tire is getting pretty bad so I decided to have someone look at it to get it fixed. The car has eibach lowering springs with the stock blue koni shocks. I also have 19" rims with the 345 pilot sports. When the car is parked on a flat surface I can fit one almost 2 fingers between the top of the tire and the bottom of the wheel well, on the other side theres more room and it never rubs.
Here are my questions.....Can an Eibach spring weaken over time? I bought the car with 4000 miles on it and it had the springs already installed and now the car has 17k on it. This problem arose probably 3000 miles ago and has been getting worse. I called Eibach and they say their Eibach springs will never weaken over time because of a process they they do to them before any of them are sold. Who knows if thats true... Also the Koni's look fine.
Also do you think that the eibachs are not meant to work with a tire that is bigger than the stock set up? (18in rims with 335 pilots) because if thats so maybe thats the problem? And maybe its only the left side that rubbing because thats the side I sit on? But from being on the forum Im pretty sure there are plenty of owners that have 19's and 20's on the rear with the lowering springs.
Any help or advice on what I should do is greatly appreciated! It is at the shop now and the weather here is 75+ all week. grrrrr
thanks
Martin

 

[drviperdds]

Re: Viper currently in the shop need suspension advice please

Get some 355/25/R19 pirelli's

 

[XLR8SN]

I dont know if I can really add any help...but I will try.

I have had other people that used Eibach springs on their cars as well...granted they were mostly imports...but never the less, the springs did not sag or "fail" even after years of hard track use. One thing that you might want to check would be the distance from the tire to the fender lip. This would at least give you an idea if the offsets and distances from the tire to the fender edge are the same. Sometimes just changing the brake rotors will change your offset. Might be just 2-3mm...but it does make a difference.

I am assuming that the suspension has never been touched. Are both rims "true" Is one slightly out of round.

If both distances between the tire and fender are the same...then I would see if I can get a new set of springs and see if that solves the issues. You might be able to call JohnB at PartsRack and get a set of the ACR coilovers. That might help you in regards to adjusting for vehicle height and solve your clearance issues as well.

Best of luck. I cant wait till my Viper comes in.....

 

[Martin2000GTS]

XLR8SN
thanks for the reply, the only modifications to the suspension is the eibachs thats all. I guess after talking to chuck at tators, it cant be the shocks because they dont control the ride height, its only the springs, Im hoping i just so happen to have a bad spring. Any ideas on where to buy a new set of ibachs? I really dont want to buy new shocks considering how much they cost.
the car does have eradispeed rotors i wonder if that made the wheel stick out more....im not sure. the other side is fine though, so unless the rotors have different thinknessess........I had the rims checked last year at rimpro here in tweksbury and they are round and the car dosent wobble or viabrate so I dont think its a wheel problem. As convincing as the eiback rep was about how the springs never go bad and thats why they have the million mile warrenty, i think for now thats my only option...

 

[GTS Dean]

If I were you, I would ballast and reset the ride height per the manual and retorque all the suspension busings. You will obviously have to make some allowance for the lower ride height due to the springs. Unless a reputable dealer's Viper Tech or a qualified installer put the springs on, that is the most likely cause. If there's still a problem, I'd check the shock and a-arm bushings for non-concentricity or visible damage. The 345 section width is 10mm - nearly 1/2" wider - than OEM. It's only 1/4" per side, but it gets tight when you go low and wide.

 

[XLR8SN]

*Thinking out loud*

Resetting the ride height and double checking of the suspension bushings would make sense as well (GTS Dean's suggestion). Are you the first and only owner? Was the car ever involved in an accident? If not...then I would assume that the suspension geometry should be relatively to spec yet. Though the bolts and nuts could be a little loose. Though...would that really factor into having one side of the car "sagging" a little?

When you got the rims...I am also assuming that they gave you the correct offsets assuming that you were going to run 345's correct? Since I ordered 19 X 13 from HRE to run 345 seriers tire on an aggressive setup as well...it still should not rub...unless I use a way wider tire than originally expected and drop the car to the ground. Though the Eibachs are rated for .6 front and 1.0 inch rear....not that much at all IMO. Conservative and still a functional height.

Anyhow....if it was me, I guess i would pickup a set of Eibach's and reinstall the fresh new set. Also while I was getting the job done, check all the suspension bolts and check for any signs of damage and stress fractures...or anything of the like. If the suspension was fine before...the car was never in an accident...there are no other signs of suspension or misalignment...then it could be just the springs. There will always be a small amount of "defective" manufactored parts that slip through. Maybe unfortunately you got one of them.

Working mentally backwards is what I am trying to do. What causes and affects the suspension travel and alignment. If there were no damages then certain things can be eliminated. If all the bolts and OEM specs are correct like GTS Dean suggested...then another set of parameters can be eliminated. Hopefully, its just the springs. Cheap and at the sametime...the suspension gets all double checked.

 

[JonB]

As we discussed 3 times or so:

1) See if the 998-999 Recalls have been performed. Rear Frame crack is possible !
2) Check for a leaking shock [probable culprit-Dont replace ONE new!!!!]
3) It AINT'T likely the Eibachs
4) Do what GTS-Dean Says.

PartsRack has pairs of new or used shocks, as well as after-market

 

[2000_Black_RT10]

Edit: Sorry, back peddling here.. out of respect for a VCA sponsor JonB, I'll hold off on digging up some OEM dampers. We don't usually sell stuff to the public.. (and respecting another business situation in negotiation..) sure I'd like to chat about work, but can be considered confidential stuff..

I also think GTS Dean may be onto something regarding installation, it doesn't take much to throw the suspension geometry off and in conjunction with the reduced clearance.

Even though the dampers aren't leaking there may be an internal problem, such that the rebound damping is defective, in which case the damper restricts quick travel to ride height, and the next bump jacks the tire even closer to the wheel well having less travel, that or there is reduced damping during jounce, usually leaking fluid will be a sign there is no damping. If you were close I'd offer to get them tested on a damper dyno.

The combination of a wider tire and most likely your camber has been adjusted also adds to a loss in clearance at the wheel lip in the jounced tire position. Camber is set at design height, the camber changes during suspension travel, now that the car is lowered, the camber could be setup in a worse condition for clearance, so it'd be good to check the camber too.

Mike

 

[JonB]

Edit: Sorry, back peddling here.. out of respect for a VCA sponsor JonB, I'll hold off on digging up some OEM dampers. We don't usually sell stuff to the public.. (and respecting another business situation in negotiation..) sure I'd like to chat about work, but can be considered confidential stuff..Mike

Mike.... no worries, and thanks for the mention of RESPECT. It is truly priceless in a web environment!

If you have a set to help him, I am glad that he got help. [ I dont want ALL the business..... just my sponsored share + 1% ] THANKS !!!

 

[2000_Black_RT10]

JonB - It's probably better for the sake of matching Koni dampers (front & rear). Our OEM dampers can be identified as also being blue, but glossy / shiney if you compare them to the Konis, I think they are less than half the weight of Konis. Our workplace is geared towards racing applications, F1, Daytona, LeMans, etc.. yet there's OEM dampers including Vipers. Some stock Vipers are using our dampers, as well as other applications offered through Mopar Performance.

Regarding a damper expert quick comment today, it is a general rule that if you change a spring which has a 30% change in spring rate, there will be a significant effect in the overall vehicle dynamics if the dampers are not tuned for this spring rate change, which is not good. The final product from an OEM is a tuned system, it is not always good to simply beef up a part because this can result in a negative effect in the entire system. If the shorter Eibach spring rate is close to stock, it should be ok, just having to deal with less travel.

Yet, there are those who just cruise the boulevard, and prefer appearance over performance. That's ok, in the end it's all about making yourself happy with your car, I just wanted to share some advice.

 

[Martin2000GTS]

Hey guys thanks for the replies and help. I bought a new set of eibach springs and my friend Jerry whos a VCA member here on the board (lives right down the street from me) gave me his old rear shocks with 8000 miles on them. When I get my rears out im going to send them into Koni to have them both checked and revalved if necessaryand give them to Jerry. I also printed out this whole thread and Im going to give it to the shop. Just to make sure he checks all the other things too. This guy seems pretty good he's in Belmont NH "Heitz Automotive" Hes a viper Tech and has a couple roe super charged vipers in his lobby. He did a lot of work on my friend Jerry's car as well. Anyways thanks for all the help and as soon as I get my car back in a week or 2 ill update you guys.