Ricketts
Enthusiast
Uhhhhh this is a easy one. Mass produced Vette or Low production Viper?
Viper for Vette
- Thread starter reely
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Obviously if i didnt like the car i would not have spent the money and PERSONAL TIME on them i devoted (magazine tests,cordinating drag racing events ,hosting VCA events at my restaurant ect ect ect) =actions speak louder than words Personally the Vette is not to my taste BUT the car is a flat out rocketship .One of the reasons a GEN 4 is what is is is because SRT KNEW the Gen 3 could not beat it (Lol unless TWISTERS pal was in the Z06 ) BRAND LOYALITY obscures the truth in alot of cases .As far as road courses last time i checked this was a drag racing related thread.
Alabaster Mamba
Enthusiast
Actually nowhere in this thread did the OP inquire as to 1/4 mile performance. He simply asked for others opinion on what he should do concerning a trade. Maybe you are thinking that you are arguing with someone else about drag racing when you posted in this thread.
I have an offer to trade my 08SRT roadster for a 09 ZO6. Both cars have approx 400-500 miles on them. The corvette has all the options. Let me ask; what would you do?This is not an easy decision for me. This is an even swap in case that's not clear.
The point I was making is that the Z06 1/4 mile times are always thrown out when it comes to Gen III 1/4 times and yet Road Course times are not. The same holds true for the Gen IV and Z06. You never hear the argument about road course times because that is where the Viper rules.
As for brand loyalty, what do you expect on a Viper site? I do like Corvettes myself just like I like any high performance car. I try to be objective and open minded when it comes to topics that I am passionate about. Does bias sneak it's head in? Of course it does, that is human nature. As for the Z06, it is a beast. I think it will go down as GMs biggest success stories. It all started with the C5 Z06 when Chevrolet tried to make a cheaper version of the C5 coupe. Sales were in the tank and luckily someone at GM did the right thing. The rest is history.
As for the OP, I still think that he would be on the losing end unless it were a Z06 Carbon Edition and then it would still be questionable.
AS my actions have indicated no one is more loyal to the Viper than myself .My relationship with the mag guys has allowed me to EXPERIANCE FIRST HAND exactly how they stand up against other cars in a specific controlled testing environment .(SAME EXPERT DRIVER, SAME DAY ,SAME TRACK ).When i report a result it from this testing (alot of times some on this forum dont want to hear or accept the truth because as you said it is a Viper Forum.).Two years ago for example Muscle Mustang and Fast Ford ran my Gen 4 against a Shelby Supersnake.As i said earlyier the entire key to testing is the controlled testing environment .Issues arrive ,threads get conviluted when OWNERS of cars proclaim victory over BRANDS (BEAT A Z06 with my Gen 3 ect ) and they simply dont realize just how important driver skill is .Had the test been done in the above controlled environment the results would have been totally different.Another example in 2005 i was at Englishtown for the First Super Chevy test of a Z06.That car in near 95 degrre heat running into a 10 mph headwind popped 11.4 and 11.5 all day long.My Gen 3 with minor bolt on would have been lucky to break 12s on that day as in the best of conditions an 11.4 would be far fetched.
Viktimize
Enthusiast
i wasnt aware the coupes had that much more room than a vert. im pretty heart set on the vert, but that could sway me, if the right deal comes up on a coupe.
sick car you have there!! if it wasnt red, and 8 years too old for me, id probably pick it up.
Viktimize
Enthusiast
Z06 has been 505hp since 2006. they never upped the power, they just came out with the ZR1 in 09. the Z06 has wider rear fenders than the base coupe, and it also has a small hood scoop, and front lip. the ZR1 has a really nice side skirt, and a much nicer front lip, as well as the window in the hood.
ill totally agree that the vettes all look similar, unless you really know vettes. especially now, that you can buy the ZR1 lip kit for your Z06 for fairly cheap. and even though the ZR1 is the best looking vette, it is invisible when next to the viper. but looks are subjective. if someone didnt care about being flashy, and just wanted to go fast. i dont see any shame, in buying an 06 Z06, putting heads and cam in it, and saving themselves a good bit of money over buying a viper. it would still be an awesome performer, nobody can really argue that.
personally, i appreciate any well engineered vehicle. the hate between brands, really makes no sense to me at all.
Viktimize
Enthusiast
please have the courtesy to at least read my post, before calling me a trash talker. i love the viper, and i full well realize what its meant for. but the simple fact remains, that when i buy a nice car, i want to be able to take it on trips and enjoy it. anyway, as ive said, i did some more reading, and found i could work around the storage space problem, so i could still get the viper.
There was a Gen 3 coupe made in 2006 and then the coupes were continued and are still being made. While the Gen 3 were only verts they were not race cars (open top not allowed in GrandPrix or Lemans) and slower with the rounded rear. The Comp Coupe prevailed on the race track while the street version was eliminated, until 2006. The newest version of ACR is the most street legal track oriented car built since the GTSR.
To stay in the line of this thread the SRT10 is an open top and not much use at the track until a roll cage is installed. The Z06 is a hardtop. Nothing comparable to an ACR though.
You brought up a good point in that the vette would be allowed a faster race class at both the drag strip and road course because the SRT10 is an open top.
Exhaust on a new Viper would net 650bhp and that's more than the ZR1. If you mods are OK then the Gen3s are coming into their own since they easily go 650-700rwhp with a TT (Roe Racing $13,000installed) or Paxton ($11,000 installed) and you won't get that from a V8 vette. The Viper engines are 488 cubic inches and bigger. They respond better than any car I've ever worked on and that's why I've put my 440 Restomod Duster for sale.
Here's my first stock with Roe and exhaust 600rwhp/644rwtq that is 3/4 packed. This was the trip home from Illinois (3,200miles) with the wife.
Yes, for a guy that really dislikes Red ... 91 Ford F150 and 2 Vipers in Red, Lol. The newer Coupes have slightly less room because there is no larger opening in the middle as they don't have a spare tire. The Viper also has an advantage over the vette because the back of the seats are protected from stuff under the hatch nearly to the roof!
Ted
To stay in the line of this thread the SRT10 is an open top and not much use at the track until a roll cage is installed. The Z06 is a hardtop. Nothing comparable to an ACR though.
You brought up a good point in that the vette would be allowed a faster race class at both the drag strip and road course because the SRT10 is an open top.
Exhaust on a new Viper would net 650bhp and that's more than the ZR1. If you mods are OK then the Gen3s are coming into their own since they easily go 650-700rwhp with a TT (Roe Racing $13,000installed) or Paxton ($11,000 installed) and you won't get that from a V8 vette. The Viper engines are 488 cubic inches and bigger. They respond better than any car I've ever worked on and that's why I've put my 440 Restomod Duster for sale.
Here's my first stock with Roe and exhaust 600rwhp/644rwtq that is 3/4 packed. This was the trip home from Illinois (3,200miles) with the wife.
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Yes, for a guy that really dislikes Red ... 91 Ford F150 and 2 Vipers in Red, Lol. The newer Coupes have slightly less room because there is no larger opening in the middle as they don't have a spare tire. The Viper also has an advantage over the vette because the back of the seats are protected from stuff under the hatch nearly to the roof!
Ted
Thanks. I have been called a vette hater and that's not really true. I hate GM. I built show and go cars quite a bit when I lived in vancouver. I didn't like the way the rear axles would break and the tires would fall off as 1 example. Go back a year or two and you'll probably find 50 pages of other flaws, worst ever builts and recalls in the millions that are what formed my opinion of GM. I do prefer Dodges as they invented fastest and quickest starting in the fifties with the Hemis. Only cars ever to get a race rear axle was the Dodges with Dana 60s. Like the 5056 was invented FOR Dodge as were the Michelin tires.
As can be seen with the VCA and the Dodge Viper it hasn't been changed to compete with the vette - the Viper changes were all either demanded by the Government or Viper owners. The 06 coupe came back by demand, the ACR came back because of customer demand, the 600bhp was by demand. The Gen 3 body took the large body redesign because of the severe amount of breakage of the windshields and the extreme cost of the $18K US and $28,000 Cdn clamshell hoods.
I will be the first person to admit that GM makes ten times better product than they used to. Their products seem to require a lot more warranty work than the Dodges though and if I had to buy a different brand it would be a Ford. Either a supercharged pickup or a Mustang Shelby GT500. My 35years of racing showed me that a well built ford could be a challenge, but there weren't many.
http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-s...36680-need-help-srt-10-older-gts-one-get.html
A little different in that here's a Viper to Z06 and after seeing his buddies Viper get 900rwhp TT this guy wants back into a Viper. Guess that it would require a $80,000 Lingenfelter to get 900rwhp into a vette?
Difference is this guys wants an OLD Viper, man after my own heart. I'm going over there to post my 802rwhp 2000 GTS ACR link for him.
Ted
A little different in that here's a Viper to Z06 and after seeing his buddies Viper get 900rwhp TT this guy wants back into a Viper. Guess that it would require a $80,000 Lingenfelter to get 900rwhp into a vette?
Difference is this guys wants an OLD Viper, man after my own heart. I'm going over there to post my 802rwhp 2000 GTS ACR link for him.
Ted
Nine Ball
Enthusiast
1BADGTS just has this tendency to name-drop a lot. He will mention magazine writers and editors, track dates he has organized or gotten VIP credentials to. Whatever it takes to internet impress you.
I prefer not to name drop, I prefer facts based on ownership and my unbiased opinions about these cars. I dig all types of performance cars, I'm not blind loyal.
Oh yeah, and I also write/shoot for automotive magazines and get those same VIP passes and organize track events too. But I know nobody really gives a crap about that info, so I don't feel I need to state it to make a point
I prefer not to name drop, I prefer facts based on ownership and my unbiased opinions about these cars. I dig all types of performance cars, I'm not blind loyal.
Oh yeah, and I also write/shoot for automotive magazines and get those same VIP passes and organize track events too. But I know nobody really gives a crap about that info, so I don't feel I need to state it to make a point
Is it your contention that i dont know these people (editors or writers ),Is it your contention that i did not organize dates or have gotton VIP Credentials.If thats what your saying i can EASILY PROVE YOU DEAD WRONG.1BADGTS just has this tendency to name-drop a lot. He will mention magazine writers and editors, track dates he has organized or gotten VIP credentials to. Whatever it takes to internet impress you.
I prefer not to name drop, I prefer facts based on ownership and my unbiased opinions about these cars. I dig all types of performance cars, I'm not blind loyal.
Oh yeah, and I also write/shoot for automotive magazines and get those same VIP passes and organize track events too. But I know nobody really gives a crap about that info, so I don't feel I need to state it to make a point
v10enomous
Enthusiast
One of the key things that distinguishes a Viper from Corvettes is that there were a lot of pretty piss poor Vettes built even if you only go back to 92 when they started building Vipers... Then you have the whole lot of 74-87 Corvettes. Chevy really tarnished the brand IMO. If you own a Viper nobody has to ask you which one you have or check the badge on your fender to see if you have a serious car cause they're all Bad Ass high end cars.
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Achilles99
Enthusiast
I don't think that's what he's saying at all. I think he's just saying that the name-dropping and credential waving that you do sometimes detracts from the information that you give (which I appreciate by the way, since it's mostly hard numbers that people can't deny).
In the hands of an average driver, sometimes the Vette is faster, sometimes the Viper is faster. That goes for drag strips and road courses. None of us are pros.
I like them both for different reasons. The Viper for its exclusivity and looks, and the Vette for being mass produced and making my Viper look better. Just kidding
Gotta respect the Vette's performance...,I understand and respect what your are saying the reason for the creditional waving is nothing more than a source of PROOF of information .I truely believe these forums should be a source of FACTUAL INFORMATION unobscured by brand loyality.If a guy on here posting videos of winning races against Z06 true factual evidence reveals had the drivers in each car been of the same ability the outcome would have been vasatly different.(its not VIPER BEATING VETTE its Viper driver with more ability than Vette driver ).Iam probably wrong in thinking that people should know the truth.I don't think that's what he's saying at all. I think he's just saying that the name-dropping and credential waving that you do sometimes detracts from the information that you give (which I appreciate by the way, since it's mostly hard numbers that people can't deny).
In the hands of an average driver, sometimes the Vette is faster, sometimes the Viper is faster. That goes for drag strips and road courses. None of us are pros.
I like them both for different reasons. The Viper for its exclusivity and looks, and the Vette for being mass produced and making my Viper look better. Just kidding
I realize that this won't be understandable to some so please ignore it if you don't get it.
Chuck Tator told me the other day that his stock Gen 1 goes 11.7 at the race track. Call him.
Larry Macedo told me that a normaally aspirated Viper record is mid nine seconds. Sorry to ruin the thread with what I was told by experts - that's why I "dropped their names". Since I think stock is slow and fortuntely don't own one my 2 9 second rides shouldn't count.
Ted
Chuck Tator told me the other day that his stock Gen 1 goes 11.7 at the race track. Call him.
Larry Macedo told me that a normaally aspirated Viper record is mid nine seconds. Sorry to ruin the thread with what I was told by experts - that's why I "dropped their names". Since I think stock is slow and fortuntely don't own one my 2 9 second rides shouldn't count.
Ted
http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/636734-some-changes-my-gts.html Stock Gen 2 goes 11.7
ghengishahn
Viper Owner
So many have said in other ways, but Viper Specialy really hit the nail on the head. Vette's are common. Yes certain models may be have some performance superiority but to the average Joe they still appears to be a just Vette. Most have to squint to see the differences. To me, it is not about just being the fastest. It is about being exclusive and also the image. When you think Town Car....can you guess the drivers age!
I have had 2 Vette's and now a Viper. There is no comparison. More bystanders get goose bumps when they see the Viper roll by than ever happened in my Vettes.
Also it seems to me the predominant Vette owner are bald guys and platinum blondes in automatics. To me that also screws their image as the old man's sport's car.
Yep I am one of those old men too but the Viper lifts me up as one who enjoys a true sports car.... that is not available in an automatic.
Tom
ghengishahn
Viper Owner
It's completely your decision...but this IS a Viper site, I think you already know 99.99% of everyone is going to tell you to keep the Viper.
If it were ME, there's not a snowballs chance in hell that I'd trade a Viper for a Vette. Unless the Vette was a ZR1, and the Viper was a 94 RT/10, then I would trade, sell the ZR1, and buy 2 Vipers
I Love this one. My thoughts exactly.
Nine Ball
Enthusiast
I have no doubt you know these guys you continuously mention in every thread. They should be so lucky to have such a fanboy like yourself!
The sad part is that I typically agree with about 95% of the track data and results you mention. No question on the numbers and drivers, good track days, etc. I just figure you don't really need to do the name-dropping and such to make those points. I guess after reading it the 100th time, it gets old.
Some guys on either Viper or Vette sites are just in flat denial or disbelief about anything other than the brand flag they wave. No amount of video/magazine/internet proof will change their minds.
Sometimes it is easier just to tell them the facts, and spare them the e-proof. Simple for me, I own both and race both.
Tony
I guess you are correct =check out TWISTERS new thread .
Ps thread is no longer there (VCA must have removed it )in any case as i previously mentioned iam not doing it to drop names iam doing it as nothing more than a reference point to add crediability to what iam saying.For example the Super Chevy test of the Z06ect
You might as well stop now. There are some people here that are loyal to the point of stupidity. They do not comprehend anything that does not give their favorite car the edge.
I have owned an 08' Coupe with 576rwhp. It BARELY inched away from a C6Z w/492 rwhp (also mine). Weight and gearing play a huge role...but again, some people youtube race, internet race, magazine race and the little real racing that they do is on Forza II and against poorly driven contender-cars.
Just stop and laugh it off...
You might as well stop now. There are some people here that are loyal to the point of stupidity. They do not comprehend anything that does not give their favorite car the edge.
I have owned an 08' Coupe with 576rwhp. It BARELY inched away from a C6Z w/492 rwhp (also mine). Weight and gearing play a huge role...but again, some people youtube race, internet race, magazine race and the little real racing that they do is on Forza II and against poorly driven contender-cars.
Just stop and laugh it off...
So you are telling me that my new ACR with all the bolt ons I can bolt on will only pull a Z by a half a car?? Dam that *****
I tell you Ford did a hell of a job on the GT. With just a pulley on my old stock blower I would crush Zs modded or unmodded.GREAT, GREAT post.(Personally i dont know whether to laugh or cry about some of the stuff ).Wag like yourself i owned a Gen 4 and it spent some time at the track.As you replied it was an EXTREMELY close race against a stock Z06 and my car ran 11.3 at 129.7 in decent weather.You might as well stop now. There are some people here that are loyal to the point of stupidity. They do not comprehend anything that does not give their favorite car the edge.
I have owned an 08' Coupe with 576rwhp. It BARELY inched away from a C6Z w/492 rwhp (also mine). Weight and gearing play a huge role...but again, some people youtube race, internet race, magazine race and the little real racing that they do is on Forza II and against poorly driven contender-cars.
Just stop and laugh it off...
So you are telling me that my new ACR with all the bolt ons I can bolt on will only pull a Z by a half a car?? Dam that *****
I got 576rwhp out of my 08 only with Belangers, hf cats and full Corsa. The thing ran pretty darn strong. My Z has 492rwhp (intake, tune + muffler mod) but it also runs extremely strong.
The Z is definitly harder to drive to the extreme and fast. If you run into a good driver, I think it will surprise you. Unfortunately for the Zs, 90% of their drivers ****...
. Your ACR downforce is also a handicap at over 120mph...the Z gearing helps a lot. If you have diff gears on your ACR, I think that would also make a world of a difference.
There are no Ford GTs around here, but from what I hear, it does not take a whole lot to make them fast...
A GT is definitely something I continue to look at in search of the next car. Different world comparing a forced induction car (spinning the blower a little faster can give you 100 mmore horsepower )with a NA car..The Z06 run as someone replied earlyier the BEST EVER runs by both cars in stock condition are a few hundreds of a second apart (same driver )that tells it all.As far as the FGT at the prototype testing the engineers were screwing aroung with pulley sizes ,fuel mapping ect at Englishtown that day.From one run to the next a pulley ,fuel map alteration resulted in a 5 mph increase in trap speeds .Ford baselined the car with the stock pulley around the 130 mph range.WHEN THEY UPPED THE BOOST THE CAR TRAPPED IN THE 135 RANGE.So you are telling me that my new ACR with all the bolt ons I can bolt on will only pull a Z by a half a car?? Dam that *****
You might as well stop now. There are some people here that are loyal to the point of stupidity. They do not comprehend anything that does not give their favorite car the edge.
I have owned an 08' Coupe with 576rwhp. It BARELY inched away from a C6Z w/492 rwhp (also mine). Weight and gearing play a huge role...but again, some people youtube race, internet race, magazine race and the little real racing that they do is on Forza II and against poorly driven contender-cars.
Just stop and laugh it off...
I believe that you have disagreed with the vette group that state the vette Z06 is equal to Gen 4, just like most.
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