Viper in Fatal Crash

[DSR207]

Statistics you should know...

14% of all deaths due to motor vehicle accidents are teen drivers.

Most teen driver deaths due to motor vehicle accidents occur on weekends 53% of the time.

Teen drivers killed in motor vehicle accidents had a youth passenger in automobile 45% of the time. More facts below.

Of teen drivers fatally injured in automobiles, more than 1/3 were speed related accidents.

More than any age group, teens are likely to be involved in a single vehicle crash.

This age group makes up 7% of licensed drivers, but suffers 14% of fatalities and 20% of all reported accidents.
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Teen Drivers: Ticking Time-Bombs

A driver's license is one of the most easily attained documents in the United States. In most states, new drivers need only pass a vision test and a written exam based on knowledge of traffic safety rules to obtain a learner's permit. Then with a minimum of on-the-road practice, a young person can easily pass the requirements for an unrestricted license. When you also consider that a first-year driver tends to overestimate his ability behind the wheel, it's no wonder kids are at risk.

The risks are substantial: Teenagers make up only 6.7 percent of drivers but account for 14 percent of drivers involved in fatal auto crashes. At 16 years, inexperience leads to 43.2 crashes per million miles driven. (By contrast "veteran" 17-year-old drivers experience 30.3 crashes per million miles.)

Why are teens the worst drivers? Because too many are easily distracted risk-takers. All too often, they fail to see a dangerous situation developing as they fiddle with radio dials, get swept away by their favorite songs, or pay more attention to their passengers than to oncoming traffic.

Another reason teens experience a higher percentage of crashes is simply that many have had little road experience, especially on dark, rainy nights and on slick streets.

Choose a safe car for your new driver. Buy a car of substantial size and weight -- a tank would do nicely -- with shoulder harnesses, air bags, and antilock brakes, if possible. Avoid performance cars, and insist a seat belt be worn at all times -- or the keys are yours.
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It's sad and it's tragic, but it's not the Viper's fault, it's the parent's decision to let the teen drive it. I do agree with some of the people calling on DC to do something. It should come with a warning : <font color="red"> THIS CAR WILL BITE, KEEP IT LEASHED AND UNDER CONTROL AT ALL TIMES... </font>

 

[Warfang]

It's sad and it's tragic, but it's not the Viper's fault, it's the parent's decision to let the teen drive it. I do agree with some of the people calling on DC to do something. It should come with a warning : <font color="red"> THIS CAR WILL BITE, KEEP IT LEASHED AND UNDER CONTROL AT ALL TIMES... </font>

No arguments there, but the "kid" was no longer a teen technically (20). I guess at some point you have to stop treating them like a kid... but so many of them are sooo good at acting responsible when you're around, then go do something stupid outside.

 

[lankhoss]

So, Warfang.....you think the driver of that car is a "mansy" corpse now? That's about the worst logic I've ever read in my life.

Unfortunately, a lot of people have more money than brains. A lot of people who have the money to buy a Viper, or Lamborghini, or any other exotic car....don't have the "car sense" that a lot of other enthusiasts do. TC isn't such a horrible thing, it allows you to learn using your car. It has been very cold since I bought my car, and I have kept traction control on the entire time. I've spun and slid the car a couple of times already. I'd rather be called a "[******]" than end up like the guy in this story. Once the temperature warms up, I'll turn the T/C off and get a better feel for my car. This is the 3rd Vette I've driven, and it's got FAR more horsepower than any other I've had. That doesn't mean I "deserve" to wreck it.

Obviously, you can't counter any of my logical points, so you use a straw man argument and try to claim I called the driver a mansy. That's pretty pathetic.

The driver of the car was careless from eyewitness accounts of him speeding and weaving recklessly around the time while it was raining. No tc would have helped. tc does NOT defy physics. You even admit your vette slips and slides WITH tc on... imagine in traffic doing 80mph under the same slippery condition and tell me your precious tc will save ur @$$? Good luck with that.

Well, looks like you're the perfect candidate for a vette. Congrats! Plenty of people drive Vipers without tc in rain and snow, and they take enough care not to lose control. The ones that do, accept the fact that accidents happen, and don't go blaming the car. If you're not certain of your driving capabilities, don't go speeding and weaving in traffic, and don't drive the viper in bad weather. THAT'S one of the reasons why so many members here store their Vipers away during the winter. There's no guarantee you will be 100% protected from everything. That's why you have insurance. Understand vehicle dynamics, and your chances at avoiding an accident is infinitely better than if you JUST had tc, albiet it wouldn't hurt for a novice to have both. Those people deserve a vette... like you.

That said, there's a good chance DC will cave to the pansies and their lawyers and add all the nannytech sooner or later. Then it will be time to look for another car... but still keeping my beautiful gts without the tc.

Oh my God, you are SUCH a toughguy!! Man, you are totally BAD ASS!!! The fact that you drive a Viper makes you WAY more of a man than I'll ever be!!! (add in more OMG's and exclamation points).

 

[Warfang]

Oh my God, you are SUCH a toughguy!! Man, you are totally BAD ASS!!! The fact that you drive a Viper makes you WAY more of a man than I'll ever be!!! (add in more OMG's and exclamation points).

Nothing intelligent to say... yet again.

Let's close out this thread with an agreement that we live in a glorious time of mega-HP machines, and a prayer that we all stay safe on the road.

 

[lankhoss]

Oh my God, you are SUCH a toughguy!! Man, you are totally BAD ASS!!! The fact that you drive a Viper makes you WAY more of a man than I'll ever be!!! (add in more OMG's and exclamation points).

Nothing intelligent to say... yet again.

Let's close out this thread with an agreement that we live in a glorious time of mega-HP machines, and a prayer that we all stay safe on the road.

I'm all for that!

 

[AG98RT10]

Actually, recommend we replace this thread with a sticky at the top of the board where everyone who's so inclined can post relevant measurements of their biceps and reproductive apparatus, along with record distances for projecting bodily fluids...

 

[Got Venom]

I have not visited this thread in a few days, and I see it got totally off the original sadness for the loss of life into a debate that should have been in a new thread. Does anyone know if these people or their parents are VCA members? I see that a young woman died and a 20 yr. old male was driving and is in the hospital. Do we know anything else? We have some members that live up that way, and I am hoping it was not them. Thanks

 

[DodgeViper01]

I can not believe some of the things I am reading here. I keep wondering, why would people say such things. Point is someone died here! All I have to say is, what would you do if it was your child? Would you be saying, "oh if the driver does not know what they are doing...." And please, do not say that I would not let them drive my car because if a teenager wants to take your car they will find a way.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Certainly higher percentage of Vipers are wrecked than other high performance cars. How many people have to die in Vipers before DC takes the long-overdue step of equipping them with (defeatable for expert drivers) traction control and active handling? Maybe that wouldn't have stopped this fatality, but maybe it would, too.

I was thinking the same thing. Before I even read this I would always talk to my brother and we just did not understand why DC did not introduce traction control, side airbags, stability control, REAL roll bars, and other safety equipment.

F355, This was a horrible accident. A tragedy for the family and friends as well as the Viper family. And our hearts go out to them. Nothing worse than losing a child I say that as a parent. This is out of natures normal sequence of events making it even more tragic.

Your reply quoted above is of what value? IMO is worse than a worthless post!

 

[DodgeViper01]

How is agreeing with more safety equipment worthless?

 

[Warfang]

I have not visited this thread in a few days, and I see it got totally off the original sadness for the loss of life into a debate that should have been in a new thread. Does anyone know if these people or their parents are VCA members? I see that a young woman died and a 20 yr. old male was driving and is in the hospital. Do we know anything else? We have some members that live up that way, and I am hoping it was not them. Thanks

GotVenom is right. As far as I know, it's no one we know from here. I'm not certain if the dad is vca or not. It's a sad story and there no point dragging this into some other discussion. That's why I was trying to close it on a positive note.

 

[DEVILDOG]

Do you think that if ABS, traction control, stability control, etc were readily available back in the early 60's that the Cobra would have avoided them. Just to make it difficult to drive so it could be considered a he man car. No. Shelby would have employed anything to make it the top dog. Why not make a car that makes the average driver very fast. I cannot think of a good reason.

I wonder why replica COBRAS being built today have none of the current safety technology including air bags?
I wonder why Shelby's latest creation...the Series 1 does not have T/C or airbags?
I don't want the average driver to be driving very fast! I can't think of a good reason as to why you would want them to.

 

[DEVILDOG]

Then again, there are some knuckle draggers in here too.

Did you take your daily tip toe through the tulips today?

 

[madman]

Although this story is sad I think it makes no sense to blame the lack of active controls. From what I recall the surface of 101 is quite ****** at the place of the accident - all of us know what viper can do with the stock suspension when you hit a pothole, a series of potholes or road rails. It dances. Add the lack of experience, some speed, darkness and you get the accident waiting. I think that it is a shame that the regulations allow DC to build the convertible without rollover bars - US may be the only civilized country in the world with such flaw - and the bars could have saved them (maybe) - but the active components? I wouldn't think so. This story is a clear example that there is no car that "fits them all". I don't want to trade a razor sharp handling so that teens won't get killed in a Viper. I want this car to 'dance' on potholes because if it wouldn't I could be driving my wife's M3 for all I care. The power and handling is what makes Viper unique and any compromise in this area will make Viper noViper. And yes, I have Motons and the car still dances (although little less). Our Viper is what it is and that's why I love driving it.

 

[Warfang]

Although this story is sad I think it makes no sense to blame the lack of active controls. From what I recall the surface of 101 is quite ****** at the place of the accident - all of us know what viper can do with the stock suspension when you hit a pothole, a series of potholes or road rails. It dances. Add the lack of experience, some speed, darkness and you get the accident waiting. I think that it is a shame that the regulations allow DC to build the convertible without rollover bars - US may be the only civilized country in the world with such flaw - and the bars could have saved them (maybe) - but the active components? I wouldn't think so. This story is a clear example that there is no car that "fits them all". I don't want to trade a razor sharp handling so that teens won't get killed in a Viper. I want this car to 'dance' on potholes because if it wouldn't I could be driving my wife's M3 for all I care. The power and handling is what makes Viper unique and any compromise in this area will make Viper noViper. And yes, I have Motons and the car still dances (although little less). Our Viper is what it is and that's why I love driving it.

Yes, but the whiners will complain that what they want is a tc that you can turn off if you're the macho kinda guy. There's no point perpetuating this discussion. No one will blink on this one. Let's just move on...

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

First you say this...

Putting traction/handling controls makes sense. It won't stop every fool from killing themselves; it will help prevent someone with just enough experience

Then you say this...

So don't try to play up the angle that all people need is "driving school" and they're suddenly miraculously transformed into the safest drivers on four wheels. It helps but it's no panacea.

If you are so hell-bent on nanny aids like TC that "won't stop every fool from killing themselves" then why aren't you hell-bent on sending every Viper driver to driving school which you admit "it helps?"

After all, driving schools are everywhere, and if you can afford a Viper...

Bottom line: buy a Vette, PLEASE BUY A VETTE if you can't handle a Viper. And "can't handle" may sound macho to you pro-nannys but it is exactly accurate.

 

[Rolf]

My condolencses to the families. I agree with the above point about who we allow to drive our cars. I have three sons who would love to get their hands on my car with out my supervision. The oldest is 20 and an engineering major at OSU. He works as a bonded car valet in his spare time. I still would have misgivings about him driving the car off the track and in traffic. We don't have much in electronic features such as traction control etc. These cars can be very unforgiving in inexperienced hands. For a young person with a friend in the passenger seat it can be very tempting to "show what the car will do".

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Adding to the comments made earlier about young drivers, most high schools have done away with driver's education leaving that responsibility entirely in the hands of parents, and most parents of which are irresponsible or haven't thought much about it. Defensive driver schools are great and would do wonders for teen and inexperienced drivers. They should be mandatory for anyone under 30.

 

[SweetRed04]

Although this story is sad I think it makes no sense to blame the lack of active controls. From what I recall the surface of 101 is quite ****** at the place of the accident - all of us know what viper can do with the stock suspension when you hit a pothole, a series of potholes or road rails. It dances. Add the lack of experience, some speed, darkness and you get the accident waiting. I think that it is a shame that the regulations allow DC to build the convertible without rollover bars - US may be the only civilized country in the world with such flaw - and the bars could have saved them (maybe) - but the active components? I wouldn't think so. This story is a clear example that there is no car that "fits them all". I don't want to trade a razor sharp handling so that teens won't get killed in a Viper. I want this car to 'dance' on potholes because if it wouldn't I could be driving my wife's M3 for all I care. The power and handling is what makes Viper unique and any compromise in this area will make Viper noViper. And yes, I have Motons and the car still dances (although little less). Our Viper is what it is and that's why I love driving it.

I would NEVER wish or ask for MORE REGULATIONS from the government. If you want a convertible with a roll bar buy one. I don't want to put any more roadblocks and costs into providing high performance vehicles.

If you think rollbars should be required, someone else might think that over 400 HP cars require NACAR style roll cages, while others might think that ANY engine modifications be banned or require emmissions with 70,000 or 100,000 mile cerifications (not just spot or periodic testing). Do you think such a situation would be a good thing?

Also, keep in mind, that if regualated, the SRT-10 coupe would also need modifications to meet rollover specs depending upon what was dreamt up by the government.

 

[madman]

400 or 800 HP will not kill you by itself. Some stupid ***** hitting you at 60MPH so that you end up off the road bottom up will. I think it is plain stupid from DC building 80k car without rollover protection. In this case this might (maybe) have saved the crew from the driver's error. In other cases it would protect the crew from the errors of others. Somehow I don't like others to determine my destiny.

 

[Nobody]

400 or 800 HP will not kill you by itself. Some stupid ***** hitting you at 60MPH so that you end up off the road bottom up will. I think it is plain stupid from DC building 80k car without rollover protection. In this case this might (maybe) have saved the crew from the driver's error. In other cases it would protect the crew from the errors of others. Somehow I don't like others to determine my destiny.

Same thing might happen while walking across the street....Do you feel it is some clothing manufactures fault for not incorporating body armor in your ballerina dress

 

[kwiksilver]

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Somehow I don't like others to determine my destiny.

I'm not sure what you mean but this but nobody is forcing anybody to drive a Viper.

 

[madman]

Somehow I don't like others to determine my destiny.

I'm not sure what you mean but this but nobody is forcing anybody to drive a Viper.

When I bought Viper I thought these things behind the seats were rollover protection. They looked the same like on my S2000 and on S these ARE rollover protection. Nobody told me otherwise, I received no warning either from the sales staff or from the reading DC web or from looking at the car. I hope you don't expect a buyer read all labels on the car prior buying it. Before I bought a Viper I bought three other cvts - S2000, BMW 330 and M3 and all of them came with the 'things' behind the seats which were rollover protection. I lived in the world where these things behind the seats were supposed to have a safety function.

So in my case I am sort of 'forced' to drive this thing with the toy bars. The truth is that I never tried to return the car (you might guess the probability of the success))

The bottom line is that I love driving Viper and I like looking at it. But this matter with rollover protection ****** me off.

 

[Bonkers]

Preach both sides of the TC debate to hearts content - if the GenIV comes out with it I will not buy it, regardless of looks or performance.

 

[SRT10_SWISS]

This thread came really to a sad point...

 

[DodgeViper01]

This thread came really to a sad point...

Agreed. I think the mods should close this one!

 

[GR8_ASP]

Preach both sides of the TC debate to hearts content - if the GenIV comes out with it I will not buy it, regardless of looks or performance.

So Bonkers how many NEW Vipers have you purchased? Just wondering what the loss factor is.

I still do not understand how a defeatable system (one you can turn completely off) can be a problem. It does not stop you from being a he-man, if you so wish.

 

[Warfang]

Preach both sides of the TC debate to hearts content - if the GenIV comes out with it I will not buy it, regardless of looks or performance.

So Bonkers how many NEW Vipers have you purchased? Just wondering what the loss factor is.

I still do not understand how a defeatable system (one you can turn completely off) can be a problem. It does not stop you from being a he-man, if you so wish.

You remind me of chickens... if you put feed on the other side of a chainlink fence, the chicken will smack its beak into the fence over and over again trying to get to the feed... a smarter animal would go around the fence.

Are you not reading any of the previous posts? This is what's called a standstill. Both sides have already said more then they have to...TWICE! Bringing up the same lame arguments yet again, doesn't advance the conversation.

So let me recap for you:

1. No one wants to pay for your inadequacies or insecurities. Why turn it off, when I can just not have it and not pay for it?

2. This goes against what the Viper is all about. The tech that IS on there helps with overall performance (abs=stop quick=fast track times), not a crutch for the timid. Get a vette or a porsche if you need the nannytech. If you insist on the "look" of a Viper, use the money you saved buying a vette to get some body kit fabbed... the vette looks close enough to a gen3 that it shouldnt be too hard.

Can we PLEASE close out this thread?

 

[kwiksilver]

Yeeessssss!!!!!