Viper Investment Project

[black mamba1]

Please forgive me if this belongs under an existing thread, I have had my hands full debating some really good friends lately.

I have read talk and posts about the Viper brand being sold. I, for one, do not believe the Viper community should simply sit on our asses and not get involved in the future of Viper. Many if not most of we VCA members and Viper owners are successful businessmen, lawyers, and many of us are connected to other wealthy investors. Why are we not using our talents, pooling our talents to see if we can "broker" a deal to the right buyers that will have the spirit, history and legacy of Viper in mind?

I dont feel right simply doing nothing while others determine what happens to our beloved Viper. We should form some kind of project or task force to pool our talents to impact or direct the future of Viper. Enough of this passive crap....lets fight for Viper! I for one will not let Viper go down w/out a serious fight. I definitely dont feel comfortable w/ Viper being owned by the Chinese.

We can get some brilliant minds together to get a project going to get Viper in the hands of the right investors.

 

[Brad04Mamba]

I actually agree with something you have said

 

[musicncars]

I very seriously doubt that they need our help selling Viper. That would mean the VCA would act as a middle man and require paying more money.

Please forgive me if this belongs under an existing thread, I have had my hands full debating some really good friends lately.

I have read talk and posts about the Viper brand being sold. I, for one, do not believe the Viper community should simply sit on our asses and not get involved in the future of Viper. Many if not most of we VCA members and Viper owners are successful businessmen, lawyers, and many of us are connected to other wealthy investors. Why are we not using our talents, pooling our talents to see if we can "broker" a deal to the right buyers that will have the spirit, history and legacy of Viper in mind?

I dont feel right simply doing nothing while others determine what happens to our beloved Viper. We should form some kind of project or task force to pool our talents to impact or direct the future of Viper. Enough of this passive crap....lets fight for Viper! I for one will not let Viper go down w/out a serious fight. I definitely dont feel comfortable w/ Viper being owned by the Chinese.

We can get some brilliant minds together to get a project going to get Viper in the hands of the right investors.

 

[black mamba1]

I actually agree with something you have said

See, there is still hope!

 

[black mamba1]

I very seriously doubt that they need our help selling Viper. That would mean the VCA would act as a middle man and require paying more money.

I dont suggest we help them, I suggest we act as a brain trust or a committee, or organize our own investors. I am sure there are several investors that would want Viper. But I dont think we should go the way of Lamborghini and end up being owned by Indonesians interested more in bluster and bragging rights than heritage and performance. All I am simply saying is we have pull. Most or at least many of us buy more than one Viper and we are responsible for all the Viper events. Without us Viper would fall flat on its face.

I have debated with some extremely smart and strong guys in here. We can use those same energies to unite and make an effort to at least have a back up plan.

 

[alpine7822]

I think what you're suggesting is kind of like "brokering" the deal. However, you would need to find a manufacturer that is willing to take over the Viper. Saleen would be ideal, or someone else that does the same or similar thing. I think if you were to get Shelby involved that you would have better luck. However, if you were to form your own corporation, you would end up doing the same thing Chrysler is doing now...looking at the bottom line!

Chrysler is evaluating if Viper is worth keeping around. This simply means is the cost worth the profit...you've got to look at the margin. Yes we all love this vehicle, but if you are going to spend $10 mil a year to make $100,000, is it worth it? A private company that only makes the Viper doesn't have other profitable lines to "subsidize" a luxary like a halo car.

HOWEVER, if there's anything I can do to help...let me know! I don't want to see the Viper disappear either.

 

[Scott_in_FL]

The winning concept would be to organzie a venture to purchase the brand. Chrysler could remain involved at some very low level of participation (perhaps a minority owner, with the ability to repurchase a majority stake when they get back on their feet).

Sell preferred interests to Viper owners past and present, float a public IPO for additional funding, team up with a rock solid third party design firm and car builder (i.e. Pratt & Miller, Riley & Scott, Saleen, Roush) or just subcontract out the build process. Better yet, purchase the CAAP facility from Chrysler.

We could be the first enthusiast owned car company. With the narrow focus, and limited production, we probably escape CAFE standards and much of the DOT/EPA testing requirements.

 

[97GTS]

I too find myself in the almost uncomfortable position of being in agreement with BM1. There is still hope for this world!!


Ron

 

[Warfang]

If you think things get heated here when Chrysler does something boneheaded towards the Viper... just imagine if the brand is club-owned! Just the nanny-no nanny arguments here get nuclear.

There's an old drug dealer saying... don't get high on you own supply. I think the same can be applied to cars.

 

[Need1]

It's just a car...

 

[dave6666]

I'm out. Too much quality drinking time would be lost.

Plus, I already have the Viper I want.

Sorry.

 

[Need1]

I'm out. Too much quality drinking time would be lost.

Plus, I already have the Viper I want.

Sorry.

While y'all are out trying to save the Viper, Dave is being a productive member of society.

 

[dave6666]

While y'all are out trying to save the Viper, Dave is being a productive member of society.

It had been at least 2 minutes since I last said something stupid. I ended up here at that moment of glory.

Sorry.

I really could care less if the VCA gets involved. If they do though, it won't affect whether or not I remain a member. I'm in, and you can use my membership dues as you choose.

 

[black mamba1]

We can either organize a venture to purchase the brand, or tap into the interests of existing venture capitalist already in existence. I have friends that are decendents of the RCA corporation founding family worth around a billion, another family who builds satellites, and another that invests in any new medical technology. Their combined net worth is between $6 and $9 billion. My point is that if I know people like this I am sure at least some of you guys out there know people like this too. While most investment groups only invest in certain niches that they are comfortbable with, the right approach will definitely get their attention.

I dont think this will be as difficult as one might imagine b/c Viper represents America and her values of strength. That image appeals to just about every American. No one wants to see Viper vanish, not even our Vette rivals want to see us go.

We can do this. And also, if Viper dies and we do nothing, how many of you could live with that? Certainly not me. I am going to organize a subcommittee to study the feasability of such a project and lets go from there. If you are interested in helping, please let me know.

 

[black mamba1]

I too find myself in the almost uncomfortable position of being in agreement with BM1. There is still hope for this world!!


Ron

We always unite when it really counts!

 

[Vipuronr]

Well, though I am a pretty new member, I feel I should chime in (a little) here. I think there is a lot to be said for being the only AMERICAN hand made sports car that is mass (sort of) marketed. With Anhauser Busch - the American Beer - being owned by a European company, really key decisions will (begin) to be made there and not here for AB (my opinion having been in merged companies).

In my previous life (marketing), had worked a fair amount globally in Europe and Asia, so it would bother me if a buyer was from anywhere outside the US.

As I read it, I don't think the objective would be that VCA own Viper, though with the right structure and board in place that could work with VCA members owning stock of some kind. I think what is being suggested is the VCA look to find the right (American?) investors/venture capital Company to purchase Viper so it will continue stand for American High Performance.

In my mind, it doesn't sit right to have the Viper future put in the hands of outside conglomerates in China, Japan, Germany, etc.

Also, if I am not mistaken, there are Chrysler/Viper factory people in the VCA...is that correct?

'Nuff said by me. Thanks for listening, sorry for intruding.

Peter
I have worked in Global business

 

[musicncars]

I dont suggest we help them, I suggest we act as a brain trust or a committee, or organize our own investors. I am sure there are several investors that would want Viper. But I dont think we should go the way of Lamborghini and end up being owned by Indonesians interested more in bluster and bragging rights than heritage and performance. All I am simply saying is we have pull. Most or at least many of us buy more than one Viper and we are responsible for all the Viper events. Without us Viper would fall flat on its face.

I have debated with some extremely smart and strong guys in here. We can use those same energies to unite and make an effort to at least have a back up plan.

I do agree that working together and discussing ways to help Viper would be a lot better than the constant blaming of political parties causing our country's downfall.
Politics are old and tired, and I believe that these candidates have been beaten to the ground enough....I get it...they both stink.
So? what do you propose?

 

[WOT!]

I and a few of our members were thinking the same thing. In fact when I first heard that a buyer had approached Chrysler I thought it might be an investment group of VCA members. I see positives and negative to this type of buyer/owner.

To me the best solution for us is a US buyer.

I already gave up drinking Bud and any product there in.

I'm surprised some of those very bright people on this forum have not chimed in yet. What are they up to?

 

[slaughterj]

I'm surprised some of those very bright people on this forum have not chimed in yet. What are they up to?

We're here

The biggest obstacle is money. With a certain amount (10%? more? that means at least $10 million more than likely), the rest might be able to financed. Once the money is available, then matters such as due diligence for the transaction, working up the legal documents for the transaction and the corporate entity doing the acquisition, etc. is just a matter of some time and money for legal fees (e.g., my firm and I do a lot of this sort of work) and business analysis (running the numbers, figuring out a reasonable price, if any, etc.). But unless there is a serious money player that gets involved to get the ball rolling, then it's just talk. There are some members with serious money, but I haven't heard of any of them stepping up, whether because it isn't of interest, appears too risky, they're too busy, etc.

 

[WOT!]

We're here

I here yea. I was just getting ready to post a correction when I realized I stated that completely wrong. Nuff said!

My apologies

 

[alpine7822]

I don't think the VCA "owning" Viper would be the key. I think the VCA and its members facilitating the transaction would be better. Possibly using our connections to talk to companies or individuals who could run the project and with the infrastructure in place to manufacture and distribute the vehicle. You would probably need assistance from Chysler so that you could distribute through Dodge dealerships as is, but the production, design and management of the car would done by the new firm. This would cause price increases so Chrysler could take their cut, and a smaller manufacturer would not get the pricing that Chrysler gets on materials, so I don't know if would be feasible.

HOWEVER, I have some contacts at Roush, I'll see if I can spark some interest there.

 

[Vipuronr]

I agree about VCA not being the owner, not sure you could raise that kind of capital from the members....but, what I've learned from over 35 years in corporate America, is that you can't complain about the outcome if you don't participate in the discussions. Meaning, if we do not somehow become part of Chrysler's discussions, we will have no right to complain when Viper is sold to some investment group from who knows where.

That's the theory but not sure, in practice, how VCA "inserts" itself in the discussions.

However I, for one, think VCA ownership or majority ownership of stock (controlling interest) would give us the best and maybe only real shot at determining the future of Viper.

Hey, just imagine a 4 cylinder Hybrid, 4 door Viper...yes, absurd but kinda makes the point.

Thanks for listening.

Peter

 

[ViperTony]

I agree about VCA not being the owner, not sure you could raise that kind of capital from the members....but, what I've learned from over 35 years in corporate America, is that you can't complain about the outcome if you don't participate in the discussions. Meaning, if we do not somehow become part of Chrysler's discussions, we will have no right to complain when Viper is sold to some investment group from who knows where.

Good point Peter. With that being said, aren't the national VCA officers part of the discussions with Chrysler and potential third parties? I thought I read about that in one of the VOIX updates. As for the VCA potentially owning Viper...you think the debates are ugly now what until we have to decide on cup-holders vs. no cup-holders.

 

[bluestreak]

I hope you guys are considering the costs associated with completing a venture of this sort and how it would affect the Viper. First of all, if whoever buys it is not a multi billion dollar company selling tons of other cars, the price of the Viper on it's own would have to skyrocket to make a profit.

Now think about the feasibility of selling a 600k (dare I say Saleen prices?). Now who would be interested???? The ACR is already the pinacle of performance, so you would end up having to make enough changes to convince people the once 90-100k Viper is now worth 500k. And what does that mean? Luxuries and nannies, the very thing the Viper does not stand for.

I'm sure Chrysler has trimmed the fat making the production as efficient as possible, so you'd have to figure out how to start with a non profitable sector of a company and make it profitable without the luxury of selling hundreds of thousands of other cars every year. One things for sure, you cant convince investors to throw away money.

Just wondering if some of you guys have thought about the business apect of this, it's certainly no sure thing.

 

[Vipuronr]

Yes, totally agree, my thoughts are conceptual and in no way am I recommending that the VCA buy Viper. On its own, there certainly are no economies of scale and true, how many could you sell at $600k each.

That said, no venture capital group would ever even think of investing without key doc/processes like complete due diligence, a highly detailed business plan including estimated unit/gross revenue projections, net profit projections, 5-year and 10-year marketing/business development plans, and on and on.

My take would be that VCA be involved in not only the discussions but, in some form, in the decision making process. Not sure how much power Chrysler would be willing to give VCA, but the ideal would be to have a legitimate say in where the Viper marque goes and how it evolves.

And, though I do not eat or drink anything in mine, I vote for at least one cup holder!!!

Thanks for listening.

Peter

 

[maxdaddy]

I think your basic Ideal sounds like when Harley davison got bought back from amc,If a few dedicated people or groups got together they might be able to run it,but I dont think dodge has made any profits off the viper yet? Flag ships are just that.

 

[bluestreak]

Another question is who would you trust to put the same vigor and keep the same principles with the Viper brand?? It's not like whoever buys the Viper would be buying SRT to go with it. So now the future of the Viper would lie with someone else who would decide where it would go. And the way the auto market is headed (turbos, dual clutches, computer assisted everything) there wont be anyone looking to sell the ******** Viper of old, and new changes may diminish the brand entirely considering what it was built for.

I think the reality of it is that the Viper as we know it can only live with chrysler behind the creative and determined minds of SRT. Anywhere else and it becomes something we arent used to, and certainly many here wont like, maybe even a change of name.

In short I think the Viper (as we know it) dies without Chrysler, so maybe a proposal for how to keep the Viper at Dodge is more in order. There is more to be lost than gained by going to a new home.

 

[Ron W.]

I hear that Chrysler wants 100 million for Viper and I believe that would include the Assembly plant and all tooling. There would be another 60 million in the near future for federal safety upgrades to include required side airbags and improved bumpers. The 60M also includes a refresh/ new model but I'm not sure to what extent. Chrysler is willing to provide engineering and design support for the next refresh/model to the new owners. If they produce less than 1000 vehicles per year there is a cost break for the manufacturer. I thought if we had 10,000 VCA members and averaged $10,000.00 investment each, we could raise the 100M. If we sold 1000 Vipers per year at $100,000 each that would only be 100M in gross sales. I feel these numbers don't add up for a business deal. If Chrysler kept 20% like Daimler did with Chrysler, Dodge dealers may be able to sell and service the Viper like today. Also, if Chrysler was involved, the purchase price may be greatly reduced.

 

[Vipuronr]

I see your point and the numbers certainly don't add up.

That said, Viper may be faced with one of two directions, sold to a (possibly) "unfriendly" buyer with goals in mind that might not be in the best interest of Viper as we know it now.

That leaves the (untimely) death of the Viper brand.

Given those two options, hypothetically, which would you prefer as an owner of a Viper. I for one, would not like to see the Viper brand dragged through the mud by a non-auto enthusiast owner group that may make decisions far different than SRT has and, in the end, ruin the Marque's reputation for brute performance and race character.

The analogy that comes to mind is the star ballplayer that plays way past their prime and permanently damages the reputation that they built over the years.

So, for me, I would rather see the brand go out on top!

Just one person's opinion.

Peter

 

[bluestreak]

I see your point and the numbers certainly don't add up.

That said, Viper may be faced with one of two directions, sold to a (possibly) "unfriendly" buyer with goals in mind that might not be in the best interest of Viper as we know it now.

That leaves the (untimely) death of the Viper brand.

Given those two options, hypothetically, which would you prefer as an owner of a Viper. I for one, would not like to see the Viper brand dragged through the mud by a non-auto enthusiast owner group that may make decisions far different than SRT has and, in the end, ruin the Marque's reputation for brute performance and race character.

The analogy that comes to mind is the star ballplayer that plays way past their prime and permanently damages the reputation that they built over the years.

So, for me, I would rather see the brand go out on top!

Just one person's opinion.

Peter

I wouldnt be too concerned. I honestly dont think there is any way our domestic car makers will survivie for long with the current lopsided bias in import fees vs other countries. They are esentially being suffocated to death, no access to the cheap labor other companies can access. So unless they can find a suitable way to make the flagship sportscars profitable on their own, we may see the death, and certainly the neutering of everything in our country. Add to that CAFE standards and sportscars are going to wither down to pathetic and die, Mustang, Corvette, Viper are all going to be in trouble in the upcoming years.

I really wish the big three would go ahead and merge into a conglomerate, and make a bunch of cars to smash everyone. I really feel bad for them because it's so much harder for them to be successful here. To the point where they are considering shutting down US operations altogether and just producing overseas, and I actually thinkfor the company that would be the smartest idea, but it would leave hundreds of thousands without jobs, so our government needs to step up and help. NOW!!!!!!!