Viper Owners as Ambassadors for Dodge

[redsrt03]

One of the interesting side effects of owning an SRT-10, is the fact that you're constantly approached by people interested in the car. This gives you an opportunity to be a one-person representative for Dodge.

Unfortunately, some Viper owners (including myself) have had very unpleasant experiences in both the quality/reliability of their cars and Dodge's apparent committment to honoring their warranties.

As one of the high-end/flagships of the Dodge fleet, you would think Dodge would give Viper owners the benefit of the doubt when it comes to premature clutch failures, differential problems, etc. (Unless there was obvious signs of abuse of course).

However that does not appear to be Dodge's approach. By being niggardly in their approach to honoring the written warranty, they are only fostering hostility and alienation with the group of buyers who could do them the most good.

I know many of the VCA members hint that by working with the "right" VCA people, they can influence Dodge's response to warranty claims. If this is true, then I personally have even less respect for Dodge.

It cost me $2700.00 to replace a clutch at 4000 miles on a brand new Viper, that I honestly believe (and still believe) should have been covered by the warranty.

Therefore the only thing I can do, is make sure that dodge gets at least $2700.00 worth of bad publicity by truthfully telling my own experience to anyone who will listen. If my clutch warranty episode with dodge, can prevent one person from buying a dodge, I will have come out ahead. (Actually, dodge already lost one sale, because I was 60% sure I was going to buy my wife an SRT-4. Now its going to be a TOYOTA for sure.)

So I encourage each of you use your position as an "unofficial spokesman" for dodge, and truthfully report your experiences, good or bad. In that way maybe we can influence dodge to be more committed to their customers (in action, not just marketing hype). Just my thoughts.

 

[AG98RT10]

I own a Viper IN SPITE OF the fact it had a Dodge marquee on it at one time (not any more though).

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Not in anyone's defense ,but your warranty with Dodge, states that clutches are not covered. This is virtually identical to the factory warranty with all our other Stores ( Nissan,Ford, Mazda,etc ) , as Corporations consider this a wear and tear item. Did the Dealership contact the District Rep to view the clutch to see if there was a visible flaw? Normally , if a clutch gets covered , it is because of a Dealership's interaction, showing an obvious flaw. This doesn't do you any good at this point, but I was not sure if the Dealer you bought from told you it was not a covered item. Normally, there are very few clutch concerns with Vipers (I personally did track events for three years on the standard clutch) and therefore it would have been up to the Dealer to address this more aggressively in case of a flaw. That not done, the only thing to fall back on would be the factory warranty, which unfortunately, as stated , does not cover said part. Did the Dealer keep or show you the clutch, or did they just repair? Just asking,as your note does not state how long ago you did this.

 

[Cris]

I think most of us already do. Positive in my case.

BTW I replaced the clutch in my Gen I ( at 30k miles and it had more than 50% life left when it was replaced) and it was less than $200. Did you buy a gold plated version? Or maybe it was $500 an hour for the labor.

Outside of the one post about the differential recently all the stories I have heard of were that they were replaced under warranty. And no I do not use any Viper club assistance. I just go to dealers that are known to be Viper friendly. Not in stretching the rules but more so in how they treat our cars.

BTW you have touted Toyota several times here. You must be their spokesperson. Hope you like their new Camry. I hear it outperforms the Viper so you better go get one quick before they sell out.

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

It's exactly the opposite experience for most. Dodge built us a race car that you can drive on the street. They know and flat out encourage us to track the car. They have improved the car over the years due to our feedback about what we want for track use. And when problems occur that are COVERED by the warranty they step up even if the problem occurred on the track. Why in the world would you complain about a non covered item not being covered? And really, enjoy that Toyota, they sure do make a nice little high performance sedan!

 

[redsrt03]

Bill,

Actually the warranty for the 03 does say that the clutch disk is covered for 1 year or 12k miles. I assume the flywheel and pressure plate are part of the driveline and are covered for 7/70k, but I would have to check.

Chris,

Assuming your are not just trying to be a smart a**, the service director stated I needed a new flywheel and pressure plate/clutch cover. That with labor would be around $1800.00. Although, no Dodge rep ever looked at the clutch/flywheel/disk, based upon the service guy's information, the a**hole at doddge's customer service said it would not be covered.

After installing a new flywheel, pressure plate, and disk, it turned out that the "real" problem was a clogged catalytic onverter. They wound up replacing oxygen sensors, resonator, and the cat. Unfortunately, I was still stuck with the new clutch costs.

And as far as Toyota, I have been buying them for 28 years and I've never had any warranty issues because, none of them that I have owned have ever had a failure within the 3yr/36k miles warranty period. I put over 170k miles on one and finally parked it because I got tired of driving in and wanted a new one. It said outside for 3 years and then some guy wanted to buy it. I put air in the tires, jump started it, and the guy drove it 60 miles to his house without any problems. As of a couple of years ago, he was still driving it.

The only Toyota I currently own is a 1996 T100. It still has the original tires and battery (~50k miles on it), and its starts and runs like new. That is my daily commuter.

Maybe that's why I sound like a Toyota spokesman. If I ever have a brand new Toyota break down at 4k miles and Toyota refuses to honor the warranty, I'll let the world know about that as well.


BTW I still have the OEM flywheel, disk, and pressure plate from the Viper. My guess, is that I could re-install them, and they would probably still work.

As far as the clogged cat, I figure its only a matter of time before that happens again. If it happens in the next couple of months, dodge is going to be buying back my Viper, as the car as already spent over 35 business days in the shop and in Colorado 30 business days qualifies under the lemon law. A 85k dollar lemon! Only dodge could pull that off.

 

[Cris]

I do not think cost has anything to do with potential problems. If anything added complexity (or in the Vipers case power) add the potential for problems.

BTW how could anyone get a clutch and a catalyst mixed up? I fail to see a connection. And how does a cat get clogged? Sounds more like the result rather than the cause. The O2 sensor, if it caused it, should have caused a MIL long before cat damage. The only connection between the clutch and the cat would be a possible crankshaft position sensor issue (which has a unique failure code).

Sounds like you had/have a yokel for a mechanic. I would take it elsewhere. BTW is this one of the previous Viper certified dealers or one of the new, don't know a Viper from a Neon dealers?

 

[DSR207]

Quote:"
"Sounds like you had/have a yokel for a mechanic"

No doubt...

 

[KenricGTS]

I have had three Vipers and have never and I mean never had any problems. And I drive fairly hard. The only problem I had is with the seals around the windows on my '96. Dodge has always taken care of me very well. I have also had 2 Rams and a Durango. Good luck with your car I hope it will turn out well.

 

[doctorbob]

I just cannot believe the price you paid for the clutch. My viper tech replaced the clutch on my 03 SRT at 30,000 miles (at the time I put in a lightweight flywheel) and I would have to look but I am sure it was consideribly less than a thousand dollars(just to replace the clutch). I think you got taken big time. I would talk to your regional Dodge representative. Bob

 

[Camfab]

Guys why are you jumping all over a guy who's having a problem with the dealer? I bought my wife a Jeep Liberty limited with all the bells and whistles when they first came out. Two months into it I notice the tranny is leaking fluid. I diagnosed the problem to be the selector shaft seal. Now to be fair most people don't what they are talking about when they describe things to the dealers, but I was correct in my evaluation. I called the dealer and explained the problem to the service manager and asked him if he could order the part ahead of time so that her car would not sit in the shop for days waiting for the part to arrive. The manager agreed and we set a date a week later to bring the car in. I even drove the car there that afternoon to show them the problem.
So I take the car in the next week and the manager says the car should be done that afternoon, ok great! I call the manager up that afternoon and ask him if the cars done and he says the mechanics driving it to see where it's leaking from! Hello are you guys on crack! What happened to the parts in and it'll be done in the afternoon. Did they order anything? NO!!!!!!
My bloods boiling at this point, I hang up the phone and drive down. I walk into the mechanics bay, find her car and see the mechanic gooping silicone around the selector shaft. What the @#!$. At this point, I'm all "what are you doing" and "why are you siliconing that part!" It's a brand new car they are not supposed to leak. He says to me it's just seeping, all DODGES LEAK, just like that Viper over there!
Anyway I saw my salesman as I was leaving, He asked how I was and if everything was okay? I told him what had happened. He was outraged and went over to talk to the sales manager. They both come out and apologize, they give me a car on the lot for my wife to drive and they get the correct part for the jeep. Now that is service!, if it wasn't for him the car would not have been repaired right. That salesman's name is Mark Ashtini at Simi Valley Dodge/Jeep in CA.
A Side note, Bill Pemberton was extremely helpful when I was looking for my ACR Viper in November. No pressure and full of info., I would give him my business anytime, and I consequently purchased a Mopar Performance Diff. through them.

 

[Cris]

Camfab, the reason is that he has stated this over and over. Every opportunity he has. It was ONE failure, and misdiagnosed at that (it sounds like it was really a $10 O2 sensor). One bad mechanic does not make all of them bad. And it surely does not make the Toyota guys better.

And regarding your "order the part ahead for me" stuff. How many times do you think the dealer has heard that line? And how many times has it been wrong? Then who pays if it was poor advice? The customer? Not! The dealer should diagnose it properly by adding dye and checking for the leak source. They should then of course repair it correctly. But the diagnosis should be theirs and not yours.

The thing to remember is the dealerships are independent. They are not owned by DC. They are not all good and they are not all bad. Same for other OEMs, though no doubt there are differences. But to blame the OEM for something that the dealer did, when it was not taken the next step to the zone (DC employed rather than dealership) seems pointless.

 

[Camfab]

Cris I don't know whats been said before so I could only comment on what I read. I'm not sure if you understood but I took the car to the dealer immediately after my conversation with the service manager. They took a look at it and said they would get the part. Now had I not done that, then of course they are going to wait untill the car comes in and is inspected. My point is why lie to the customer? It does them no good and it only serves to anger the customer, and in this case a very knowledgeable customer. You are absolutely correct that the OEM should not be blaimed! I wasn't trying to convey that at all. I've had my share of dealings with Dealerships, many were quite good, but I believe thats because after talking to me for a few minutes they realize they can't BS me.
My point here is that there is a problem with most dealerships. It's all about the sale of the vehicle right now. In my case the salesman was great and certainly took care of my problem.

As far as dealers being independent, thats meaningless, they sell the product and service the product. The Dealers are an integral part of the system and should be held responsible for their actions. Dealer angers customer, customer doesn't buy that product again. Until OEM's get that, they aren't going to get repeat customers. Why do you think Toyota surpassed Ford in sales. GM's market share is also slipping rapidly. Everybody always wants to shift the blame somewhere else. You buy a car from X and pay hard earned big bucks for it, than X should fix it period! NO MORE EXCUSES..........Ok I'm done, sorry I got all worked up. I was having flashbacks of other dealer problems I had in the past! Have a good night

 

[redsrt03]

BTW how could anyone get a clutch and a catalyst mixed up? I fail to see a connection. And how does a cat get clogged? Sounds more like the result rather than the cause. The O2 sensor, if it caused it, should have caused a MIL long before cat damage. The only connection between the clutch and the cat would be a possible crankshaft position sensor issue (which has a unique failure code).

Sounds like you had/have a yokel for a mechanic. I would take it elsewhere. BTW is this one of the previous Viper certified dealers or one of the new, don't know a Viper from a Neon dealers?

-------------------------------------------------------

Chris,

I agree with you that the clogged cat, was a symptom of some other problem. However the OBD II light only came on at the very tail end of the problem.

And as far as, ripping the Viper tech, according to the Serivce Director, every mechanic in the shop was trying to figure out what the problem was, and they were in constant communication with the Viper guys at dodge. Next time I will know to have them contact you first, before they waste all of their time!

As an engineer who routinely troubleshoots software and electronic problems, it is amazing how hindsight makes everything so simple and obvious. So I'm not one to critize the people who are working the problem. My only beef is with dodge for not honoring the warranty!

docbob,

The reason the clutch cost so much, was after getting opinions from VCA people, I opted for a high end clutch/flywheel instead of the OEM (which would have cost $1800.00 with labor). Added to that price with about $700.00 labor for the install. Actually, the service department wanted to put in a new pilot bearing and throwout bearing, but I said no way on a car with only 4k miles).

So to all of you who have never had problems with your Vipers, I say "good for you". And for the rest of us, who get screwed by dodge on warranty issues, I say ***** long and hard, you've earned the right!

 

[Cris]

Red,

You may find that many here are very knowledgeable about the Viper and could have provided help. In fact, you may even have the ears of the company here. But when all you do is hound them they will not seek you out to provide assistance.

It does sound like you had 2 unique, unrelated issues.

For a slipping clutch the potential causes are quite limited. Clutch covers can be measured to ensure they provide the appropriate clamp force. Clutch cover fasteners can be measured to ensure they are properly torqued. Missing cover spring, bent fingers, etc should be fairly easy to see if a defect is present. All-in-all if there is no measureable or visible defect the dealer and the OEM is going to assume abuse. They see it all the time with clutches. That is why they are not covered. Has anyone else drive your car that could have abused the clutch by accident or by poor driving? Or driving with your left foot resting on the clutch pedal. With 500 lb-ft one can slip and cook a clutch in just a few miles. Just a thought.

As far as your new clutch did you verify that the new cover was compatible with the stock slave cylinder. And that the slave and throwout bearing and/or pilot bearing were not damaged during disassembly or reassembly. The trans is not the easiest thing to realign and install and those two components are the most susceptible to installation damage.

I feel your pain in the whole thing but from all my experiences and those I hear from others (in 10 years of Viper ownership), your bad experiences are the exception rather than the rule. And I would hate for your very vocal complaining to change the relatively loose interpretation of the warranty limits to become rigid. My expereince is that the dealers have bent over backwards trying to make things right. Getting a positive relationship with an experienced Viper dealer is worth much more than your complaining.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Redsrt03 I understand your need to complain. But that same action makes it difficult for anyone to try to help. Either then or now. Whether you want to believe it or not there are people here that know more about Vipers, and cars in general, than you (or me). But the way you relentlessly attacked Dodge provides little incentive to become the next attackee.

 

[redsrt03]

Viper SRT,

Since you live in Detroit, somehow I get a feeling you have more than just a passing interest in dodge. Well no matter.
I am not looking for help. As far as I'm concerned dodge screwed me over on that one, and that's money down the drain.

The one advantage I have over what dodge or anyone else thinks, is that I know my driving didn't have anything to do with the slipping clutch and the clogged cat.

Therefore, when I lambast dodge it is with the conviction of the rightous. If my constant barrage bothers you and chris, please feel free to block my posts from your viewing. I assume this forum has that capability, since most do.

As far as me, I encourage everyone to speak openly and honestly about the satisfaction and enjoyment they get from their Vipers, as well as any problems with the car and/or dealer/manufacturer disatisfactions.

Again, when my Viper is running right, it is a bad-looking, kickass, high performance car. During the time it was in the shop I got an opportunity to look at the drive line and other components of the car that most owners don't get to see. For the most part, I was impressed with the quality of the parts. But still the proof is in the pudding and 4k is way too early for any new vehicle to start having failures.

I just hope that I (or anyone else for that matter including you and chris) don't have to deal with premature breakdowns (especially if dodge is going to weasel out of the warranty).

Just my opinion.