Viper production slowed by one third due to sluggish sales

[DodgeViper01]

Dealers should have ordered up SRTs with track packs, leather and sold them at sticker. Not loaded GTS with market adjustments.

$110k sounds a whole lot better than $150k for almost the same damn car.

I agree you with you. I have been a die hard Viper fan since the very beginning and follow just about everything, but besides an interior; I can not really find much of a difference between a GTS and SRT; especially for a $25,000 difference!

 

[VRYALT3R3D]

I would be interested ink knowing how many of the Vipers sitting on the lots are ordered for dealer stock vs customer orders.

t

 

[ohlarikd]

Production Numbers
1992 - 0285
1993 - 1043
1994 - 3083
1995 - 1577
1996 - 1887 (1166 GTS + 721 RT/10)
1997 - 1788 (1671 GTS + 117 RT/10)
1998 - 1216 (837 GTS + 379 RT/10)
1999 - 1463 (914 GTS/ACR + 549 RT/10)
2000 - 1789 (949 GTS/ACR + 840 RT/10)
2001 - 1751 (877 GTS/ACR + 874 RT/10)
2002 - 1463 (918 GTS/ACR + 545 RT/10)
2003 - 1875
2004 - 2433
2005 - 2009 (2003 convertible + 6 development coupes not for sale)
2006 - 1869 (752 convertible + 1117 coupes)
2008 - 1579 (712 convertible + 688 coupes + 179 ACR)
2009 - 0659 (167 convertible + 241 coupes + 251 ACR)
2010 - 0509 (134 convertible + 118 coupe + 187 ACR coupe + 20 ACR convertible + 50 ACR-X race cars)
2013 - 0809 (170 SRT + 639 GTS)

So in its 21 year history (18 model year) the Viper has built 2,000+ per year in 1994, 2004 & 2005. Building less than 2,000 is nothing new for the Viper. It was never stated SRT projects to sell 2,000 this year. It was stated very early on they have the capability of building 2,000 a year.

Base Price Over The Years
1992 RT/10 $50,000
1993 RT/10 $50,000
1994 RT/10 $54,500
1995 RT/10 $56,000
1996 RT/10 $58,500 GTS $66,000
1997 RT/10 $66,000 GTS $66,000
1998 RT/10 $64,000 GTS $66,500
1999 RT/10 $65,725 GTS $68,225
2000 RT/10 $67,225 GTS $69,725
2001 RT/10 $69,225 GTS $72,225
2002 RT/10 $71,725 GTS $72,225
2003 SRT-10 $79,995
2004 SRT-10 $80,995
2005 SRT-10 $81,895
2006 SRT-10 $81,895 coupe $83,135
2008 SRT-10 $84,460 coupe $89,340 ACR $98,345 ($12,050 option)
2009 SRT-10 $88,590 coupe $89,340 ACR $102,890 ($13,550 option)
2010 SRT-10 $90,245 coupe $91,005 ACR $105,550 ($14,550 option)
2013 SRT coupe $97,395 GTS $120,395

Looks like there is an inflection point around $80,000. As the price goes past that, the sales go down. Some people suggest the GenV should start in that area, and maybe that is the price that people are willing to pay for an American supercar. Once you past $80K, then you start looking at many European options. Just going by this limited data, and the comments in this thread. Even the sales when the car went way past $80K were made with heavy incentives to bring it back down to that number. I don't know what portion of the sales were full price and what was incentive. Just an observation.

Also, the way I read the comments from Ralph, they need to sell 2000 cars to make a profit. Selling 800 cars will not do it. It didn't sound like he was quoting maximum capacity, it sounded like the business plan. And that 2000 cars may need a large mix of GTS cars, which is why they came out that way. Maybe.

 

[Ev1E9]

Perhaps GM learned from one of SRT's mistakes. They are not going to increase production despite demand.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/1131007...vette-stingray-production-despite-high-demand

 

[ViperSmith]

They don't need to sell 2000 to make a profit, his statement was they can produce up to 2000 a year with their capacity, as I recall.

What number they need to sell to be profitable is another question.

 

[ohlarikd]

Perhaps GM learned from one of SRT's mistakes. They are not going to increase production despite demand.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/1131007...vette-stingray-production-despite-high-demand

Except I didn't see the 'demand' for SRT. I think it is purely price that is the issue.

 

[ohlarikd]

They don't need to sell 2000 to make a profit, his statement was they can produce up to 2000 a year with their capacity, as I recall.

What number they need to sell to be profitable is another question.

Definitely up for interpretation:
"Our demand that we expect is just under 2,000 cars a year. This year we'll be short demand; We can't get there this year, but in our peak year we can hit 2,000. And that's all we need to make the business case."

I am not sure what "but in our peak year we can hit 2,000. And that's all we need to make the business case" means. Either they need to sell 2000 cars a year, or they only need to hit 2000 cars ONCE, and the other years can be 800? I am not sure there is enough info here, maybe you are right.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Either way I am proud to be an owner of a hand built American car such as the Viper. I applaud SRT with what they have done and hope they continue to make improvements to not only the car but the dealer network and the service provided after the sale. The Viper is an awesome machine.
The fact that GM will ***** out as many C7 Stingrays in a 5 day work week compared to what SRT made for all of 2013 MY says something to me.

 

[mikesax]

My 2013 is the equal of any higher priced foreign exotic out there, the problem is the general public, or those buyers of Porsches etc... that SRT is hoping to draw from, needs to view it that way! I first looked at my 2010 after a positive Road and Track article, the rest is history. Put a Viper in an upscale mall display with Bentley's, Porsches, Maserati's etc.., and guess what, it will get noticed for all the right reasons!
Have positive write ups in the mainstream magazines is also a must! I didn't even know of the VCA until Dodge signed me up after my purchase 3 years ago, I only knew what I saw and read. Generating excitement is essential, and it really isn't hard to do-give it the old Hannibal Lechter-people COVET what they see- and to see this car once is enough to want to see it again!!! Just sayin, but putting it next to the vehicles your target market owns, is one way to make them feel it belongs with them!! Positive visual enforcement- 100,000 plus potential customers a week will associate this vehicle as something special and desirable-just sayin!

 

[ACRucrazy]

Have positive write ups in the mainstream magazines is also a must!

SRT shot them selves in the foot several times over here. I don't put all the blame on any magazine. You simply can NOT have a full year of mediocre reviews come out and expect to sell a car that cost 50% more than its predecessor. I don't think the car itself is mediocre, I think attention given to the press vehicles was however.

 

[ViperSmith]

SRT shot them selves in the foot several times over here. I don't put all the blame on any magazine. You simply can NOT have a full year of mediocre reviews come out and expect to sell a car that cost 50% more than its predecessor. I don't think the car itself is mediocre, I think attention given to the press vehicles was however.

The TA review was pretty good, but everything else was just a disaster

I don't get what SRT marketing is doing

 

[Oilman1934]

I love the gen v I just think its the same problem hyundai has with those hi end sedans they sell I think it call Equis or something like that People who spend that kind of $ want the dealership to resemble you spent that kind of $ it's kind of hard to beat the service a hi end Brand can give, do you guys remember when Volkswagen sold that 90k Phaeton sedan built on a Audi a8 it was a major disappointment ,just changing the name to SRT was not enough ,but on the upside maybe they will come down quickly so we can scoop them up! My only problem I don't think I can let go of my 2001 to do it.

 

[VENOM V]

SRT shot them selves in the foot several times over here. I don't put all the blame on any magazine. You simply can NOT have a full year of mediocre reviews come out and expect to sell a car that cost 50% more than its predecessor. I don't think the car itself is mediocre, I think attention given to the press vehicles was however.

Bulls eye.

As Vipersmith said, the TA review was spot on. If SRT put as much attention on the other mag review cars as they did on the TA, we'd be in much better shape. The car is spectacular on the road course, but these press mules. What the F?

 

[Coloviper]

What if Sergio made them sell the Viper in Ferrari dealerships (mainly those dealers just outside of the top 4 major and proven Viper dealers out there) considering it is a distant cousin through marriage? Would that dealership experience and technical support move the cars. Just curious? Truthfully in Denver it would make it much easier for me to pick one up, if I had the extra coin.

 

[Bobpantax]

See post number 89 in the thread "Re: Let's try to help SRT save/sell the GEN V. " posted a bit more than an hour ago.

What if Sergio made them sell the Viper in Ferrari dealerships (mainly those dealers just outside of the top 4 major and proven Viper dealers out there) considering it is a distant cousin through marriage? Would that dealership experience and technical support move the cars. Just curious? Truthfully in Denver it would make it much easier for me to pick one up, if I had the extra coin.

 

[Oilman1934]

If anybody had bought a Toyota and then bought a Lexus usually will not go back to Toyota ,the product with Lexus is better but the service is what the bigger difference is.

 

[09 Venom]

I just think allowing 'serious' buyers a test drive will seal the deal. Let them experience the Viper first hand.

 

[ViperSmith]

I just think allowing 'serious' buyers a test drive will seal the deal. Let them experience the Viper first hand.

I let a local former Gen IV ACR owner give my car a go this weekend (Forum member)

He is how trying to figure out what he wants.

Sorry, there is simply no way you can drive this car and not love it. Those criticizing it simply haven't given it the chance it needs.

 

[Oilman1934]

And the topic goes back in a circle, theres not a person out there that gonna spend 100k+ with out driving it I think SRT or dodge should of figured that out ,the test drive seals the deal with out it you sell the Gen v to previous Viper owners only.

 

[ViperSmith]

And the topic goes back in a circle, theres not a person out there that gonna spend 100k+ with out driving it I think SRT or dodge should of figured that out ,the test drive seals the deal with out it you sell the Gen v to previous Viper owners only.

Agree 10000000%%%

 

[ACRucrazy]

I had to practically beg to sit in the Gen V locally at the dealer, even though they all saw me roll up in my Gen IV. It had hand written do not touch signs all over the damn thing.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Some of Ralphs recent tweets.

@DeanKarnage half of that "stock" showed up late over the last 2.5months 80 of the 565 aren't at dealers yet. Network needs a chance digest.

@therealautoblog Correction 480 cars spread over 443 dealers, delivered way too late in the season. Trimming production for winter.

@ralphgilles It pains me to read about unsold Vipers and to take into consideration my own finances (or lack thereof). :'(

@e5p3ed This makes it that much harder!

You must be registered for see images attach

@strYker555 @therealautoblog Many of the Sold orders included custom features like the Carbon spoiler that was 6 months late...hence delay

Answer to question about about the MT article.

@meltedchshd This was on the web 3 months ago, was a poorly maintained & heavily abused media car that should never have been there.

 

[ViperSmith]

I can't believe what idiot dealer puts and ADM on the Viper now. Jesus. What morons.

 

[ACRucrazy]

Curious how production figures of previous years panned out monthly.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[ACRucrazy]

Looks like there is an inflection point around $80,000. As the price goes past that, the sales go down. Some people suggest the GenV should start in that area, and maybe that is the price that people are willing to pay for an American supercar. Once you past $80K, then you start looking at many European options. Just going by this limited data, and the comments in this thread. Even the sales when the car went way past $80K were made with heavy incentives to bring it back down to that number. I don't know what portion of the sales were full price and what was incentive. Just an observation.

Also, the way I read the comments from Ralph, they need to sell 2000 cars to make a profit. Selling 800 cars will not do it. It didn't sound like he was quoting maximum capacity, it sounded like the business plan. And that 2000 cars may need a large mix of GTS cars, which is why they came out that way. Maybe.

Random light night reading I found this bit of information. Comparing the Viper production numbers to Corvette production numbers. Quite surprising.

Year Production
1953  300
1954  3,640
1955   700
1956  3,467
1957  6,339
1958  9,168
1959  9,670
1960  10,261
1961 10,939
1962 14,531
1963  21,513
1964  22,229
1965  23,562
1966  27,720
1967  22,940
1968 28,566
1969 38,462
1970 17,316
1971 21,801
1972 27,004
1973 30,464
1974 37,502
1975 38,645
1976 46,558
1977 49,213
1978 46,776
1979 53,807<-- money shot
1980 40,614
1981 40,606
1982 25,407
1984 51,547
1985 39,729
1986 35,109
1987 36,632
1988 22,789
1989 26,412
1990 23,646
1991 20,639
1992 20,479
1993 21,590
1994 23,330
1995 20,742
1996 21,536
1997 9,752
1998 31,084
1999 33,270
2000 33,682
2001 35,627
2002 35,767
2003 35,469
2004 34,064
2005 37,372
2006 34,021
2007 40,561
2008 35,310
2009 16,956
2010 12,194
2011 13,596
2012 11,647
2013 13,466

Notice the huge drop in Corvette sales. Ignoring 1997, the first year of the C5, which also coincidentally was sold as a coupe only, even though it was designed from the ground up to be a convertible. I would have to guess the current state of the economy has a much larger impact on "middle class" sports cars than others may believe. You would have to go all the way back to 1962 to see the kind of production numbers the Corvette is currently at. Can SRT sell an additional 1400 Vipers annually before Chevy sells 35,000 Corvettes?

 

[v10enomous]

Looking at the 2014 Vipers showing up on ebay and auto trader it seems that SRT will still build a lot more GTS's than SRT cars for 2014 and I'm thinking that's a big mistake.

 

[Tenney]

Drop SRT and GTS. Make the TA the Viper (and drop the TA handle - though it did work well for Pontiac for a while). Make the fancy interior an option. Make the guy(s) responsible for sending not one but two duds to MT do something else. Introduce a lightweight ACR version with more focused suspension and downforce. Have track days for prospective buyers to try the car(s) - as Ferrari did with 599 and Scud. Sell Vipers like Tesla sells Tesla's.

 

[I Bin Therbefor]

They don't need to sell 2000 to make a profit, his statement was they can produce up to 2000 a year with their capacity, as I recall.

What number they need to sell to be profitable is another question.

As I recall, Ralph has said on several occasions, somewhere about 1500 a year is the breakeven point. But that was with the workforce in place. Perhaps the reduction in workforce has brought that number down into the high hundreds.

 

[09 Venom]

couldn't have said it better myself.

I let a local former Gen IV ACR owner give my car a go this weekend (Forum member)

He is how trying to figure out what he wants.

Sorry, there is simply no way you can drive this car and not love it. Those criticizing it simply haven't given it the chance it needs.

 

[Bobpantax]

That's true except for the hundreds of people who have modded their Vipers to their particular needs and will probably not buy a new one until they are capable of modding the Gen V to their particular needs. Quite a few of those people were at VOI 12 and have driven the Gen V.

It should be noted that there was a display board full of Mopar aftermarket mods that were going to be available for the Gen V at VOI. To my knowledge, none of the performance mods shown on that board, other than the aero kit,have been made available. And, there has not been any news since then, September 2012, to suggest that they will be available.

Similarly, we were promised that an off road controller would be available and that has not come to fruition. We were also told that the engine was made stronger to take boost applications in recognition of the fact that many Viper owners like to add boost. See the Dick Winkles video. But, as noted above by a number of people, that is not possible at a reasonable price without either an optional Mopar controller or opening the Code so that the current controller calibration can be altered to accommadate a boost application. Doing it with a Pectel, Motec or AEM controller add on is expensive. The way to go would be a Paxton kit but unless Chysler and SRT work with Paxton to produce same, it will not happen.

Bottom line, expectation management has been terrible. If it can't happen, don't mention it to begin with. That, and the TWO Motor Trend Fubared tests hurt.

Sorry, there is simply no way you can drive this car and not love it. Those criticizing it simply haven't given it the chance it needs.