Viper production slowed by one third due to sluggish sales

[Nine Ball]

About modding the Viper. A lot of people say you cannot mod the Gen 4 or 5. That statement is incorrect. The proper statement is that you can't tune the factory ECM. That doesn't keep you from modding a car. Look at all those twin-turbo Lamborghinis out there, Underground Racing has a waiting list for them to be built. NONE of them use the factory ECM. All of them require an aftermarket ECM to handle the engine controls when making that power.

The same thing can be done with a Gen 4 or 5. You'll spend $6-10K on this engine management system, just like the Lambo guys do. But, it can (and has) been done. Anyone spending $100,000 on a car can afford a $6K computer system to make big power upgrades. I could twin-turbo my SRT '13 and probably still come in under the cost of a fully loaded GTS with the $15K paint job. If you want a twin-turbo 2013 Viper, you can have it built. Period.

 

[ViperSmith]

I agree, rolling up in a Viper is no longer that "special" anymore. It is no longer a car at the top and the Gen V has only tarnished that even more! I have a Gen IV and I can't imagine rolling up in a Gen V...what a disgrace and embarrassment for the Viper heritage. It's sad to see the demise of something that WAS so good! Overpriced mediocrity will not sell cars. I thought SRT was onto something when they set all the records with the gen IV ACR. Something needs to change quick or else...

Stupidity like this isn't constructive.

 

[KB Viper]

It's only been a few months man. How long have the Gen Vs been on the street? 4-5 months? I feel for you and what happened and how it was handled. But IMO you didn't even get a chance to give the Viper a shot. (And I am not saying it's your fault) Goodies will come, but I wouldn't expect a blower, tunes, headers, full exhausts, cams etc in the first 4-5 months of a new model low production car like the Viper. It's not a Corvette, Mustang, Civic, WRX, Evo etc.

It's to bad really, because rolling around in a Viper in itself is something truly special. No Corvette or Mustang can touch that. No matter how fast it may be. Oh well, maybe next time.

no need to feel for me, i'm not looking for sympathy. I bought a Gen V, and after 67 days total at 2 different dealships to fix multiple repeat problems i was given the opportuntity to get another Viper or walk. I decided walked and it was a combination of the way the situaition was handled and the lack of aftermarket performance upgrades. You are right, I only had the car 4 months (drove it 5,500 miles in that short time) and it has only been out 5 or 6 months so maybe after market tuning and performance parts will be avaliable. It didn't seem to take long for the C7 to be fitted with a blower, i'm just saying... maybe if Chrysler's IPO is approved and they spin off of Fiat they will be able to get things done a bit faster.

http://www.corvetteforum.com/articles/didnt-take-long/

 

[Nine Ball]

I actually owned the first C6 with a Magna Charger. LOL. It was fast, ran mid-10s. Then the following year, the wide-body Z06 came out. That kinda pissed me off, no lie.

I also had the first C6 Z06 with a Magna Charger.

 

[FikseGTS]

doesn't happen with the Viper as often because they become borderline deathtraps if your not a really really good driver... The mid-engine, AWD config for the Gallardo makes them awesome to run big power with and many people spend big $$ on them to go that route...

you can run a bolt on turbo kit on the LP560 with the factory ECU (tuned) which is good for around 800 WHP, anything higher and you have to run another ECU with the stock one since you need additional injectors and pumps...

About modding the Viper. A lot of people say you cannot mod the Gen 4 or 5. That statement is incorrect. The proper statement is that you can't tune the factory ECM. That doesn't keep you from modding a car. Look at all those twin-turbo Lamborghinis out there, Underground Racing has a waiting list for them to be built. NONE of them use the factory ECM. All of them require an aftermarket ECM to handle the engine controls when making that power.

The same thing can be done with a Gen 4 or 5. You'll spend $6-10K on this engine management system, just like the Lambo guys do. But, it can (and has) been done. Anyone spending $100,000 on a car can afford a $6K computer system to make big power upgrades. I could twin-turbo my SRT '13 and probably still come in under the cost of a fully loaded GTS with the $15K paint job. If you want a twin-turbo 2013 Viper, you can have it built. Period.

 

[Nine Ball]

FikseGTS, the aftermarket ECM with boost-by-gear and traction control works wonders for taming the low gear runs on a Viper. One of our local TT Viper owners used to be all over the road in his, then he had the Pectel installed with TC and boost control - now the car is a rocket and stays perfectly straight. Huge difference with and without those systems. My '06 is around 1100 rwhp without the nannies, and it is a handful.

 

[PDCjonny]

Rehashing the pros and cons of the Gen 5 AGAIN is a waste of bandwith it's been done a hundred times already.
One thing everyone can agree on is sales have got to pick up or the brand is doomed.
How SRT goes about doing that will be very interesting but something has to be done.
They cannot sell 500 cars this year with 2014's being introduced already. Where are the 2014 buyers going to come from?

 

[FikseGTS]

yea, but you can't use the power till 100 MPH! I was recently in a 1200 whp pump gas TT Viper (UGR) and it was the scariest ride I've ever had.... and it takes a lot to rattle me...

FikseGTS, the aftermarket ECM with boost-by-gear and traction control works wonders for taming the low gear runs on a Viper. One of our local TT Viper owners used to be all over the road in his, then he had the Pectel installed with TC and boost control - now the car is a rocket and stays perfectly straight. Huge difference with and without those systems. My '06 is around 1100 rwhp without the nannies, and it is a handful.

 

[Voice of Reason]

At our Illinois club meeting last night I drove from central IL up to Chicago with the two owners of my dealership, each in their Vipers, and a friend in his 06. There my dealer let multiple people sit in his '13 and let at least one of them who was serious about buying take it for a test drive. I know this summer when they had a Mopar car show at their dealership anyone showing up with a Viper was automatically invited to drive one of the '13s they had there. Before I bought mine he let me test drive his own '13.

My point? I'm sorry the dealers in your areas are not taking care of you. Mine did before my purchase, now during ownership with every question and warranty concern, and I know he will in the future with whatever I buy next, Viper or daily driver. The car is wonderful so don't let a poor sales experience sour you. Yes, I know that shouldn't happen, but honestly get over it if you really want the car.

 

[SSGViper]

Stupidity like this isn't constructive.

No need to lash out like that, I feel your pain!

 

[SSGViper]

All this internet publicity does not bode well for future SRT Viper sales! This story is going viral. I find the comments quite interesting:

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/03/2013-srt-viper-sales-slump/

 

[ACRucrazy]

Any Aztec fans?

The Guy In Charge Of The C7 Corvette's Design Made The Pontiac Aztek

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[VENOM V]

Any Aztec fans?

The Guy In Charge Of The C7 Corvette's Design Made The Pontiac Aztek

You must be registered for see images attach

LOL! That's freakin' hillareous, because the Aztek came to mind the first time I saw the C7's butt. Thanks for the laugh, we needed a break from all this Viper negativity.

 

[KB Viper]

About modding the Viper. A lot of people say you cannot mod the Gen 4 or 5. That statement is incorrect. The proper statement is that you can't tune the factory ECM. That doesn't keep you from modding a car. Look at all those twin-turbo Lamborghinis out there, Underground Racing has a waiting list for them to be built. NONE of them use the factory ECM. All of them require an aftermarket ECM to handle the engine controls when making that power.

The same thing can be done with a Gen 4 or 5. You'll spend $6-10K on this engine management system, just like the Lambo guys do. But, it can (and has) been done. Anyone spending $100,000 on a car can afford a $6K computer system to make big power upgrades. I could twin-turbo my SRT '13 and probably still come in under the cost of a fully loaded GTS with the $15K paint job. If you want a twin-turbo 2013 Viper, you can have it built. Period.

I saw on the RSI website they have the twin turbo package, one for 40k and the other for 80k. So you are right you can mod the viper. When are you going TT?

 

[Black Adder]

In May I made the decision to sell my 2006 gen 3. I looked at a new Gen 5 SRT and also a 2010 Vooodoo ACR with 510 miles. I ended up buying the Vooodoo even though it cost the same as the new gen 5. The reason.......the Vooodoo is every inch what a Viper is meant to be, epecially visually. I know spec wise the gen 5 beats the ACR but I couldnt be more happy with the ACR and when it was parked next to a gen 5 at a recent event, everyone was taking pictures of the Viper with the wings, carbon etc etc

 

[VENOM V]

In May I made the decision to sell my 2006 gen 3. I looked at a new Gen 5 SRT and also a 2010 Vooodoo ACR with 510 miles. I ended up buying the Vooodoo even though it cost the same as the new gen 5. The reason.......the Vooodoo is every inch what a Viper is meant to be, epecially visually. I know spec wise the gen 5 beats the ACR but I couldnt be more happy with the ACR and when it was parked next to a gen 5 at a recent event, everyone was taking pictures of the Viper with the wings, carbon etc etc

Hey Tony, that wasn't my Gen V that was getting neglected next to your Vooodoo, was it?

All kidding aside, I was one of the guys snapping pics of that bad ass Voodoo. Beatufiul machine, one of my all time favorites and sure to be one of the rarest Vipers around.

 

[v10enomous]

Where's Motor Trend on this story

Any Aztec fans?

The Guy In Charge Of The C7 Corvette's Design Made The Pontiac Aztek

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[KB Viper]

Any Aztec fans?

The Guy In Charge Of The C7 Corvette's Design Made The Pontiac Aztek

You must be registered for see images attach

nice pic. how's your gen V treating you?

 

[ACRucrazy]

nice pic. how's your gen V treating you?

I still drive an outdated, flacid feeling, cheap interior Gen IV. It's miserable.

 

[KB Viper]

I still drive an outdated, flacid feeling, cheap interior Gen IV. It's miserable.

You and me both. I have a out dated c6 zr1 with a very cheap interior also. We have more in common than you think.

 

[chorps]

This was an interesting video segment.

Lamborghini's boy wonder of sales

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101081170

Maybe some insight there on how to improve Viper sales.

 

[Gustfront]

I do not believe it is the car. The Gen V is a fantastic looking, great performing, and reasonabley priced American king of the hill that is better than the Vett, Jag, Aston, Porsche, Lambo, etc. in almost every way for the majority of the current Viper Nation.

I believe the slow down in sales is due to the lack of Love shown by SRT. Viper members and clubs seem to be pretty much cut out of the loop.

As an example, The SoCal President contacted SRT to get some support for our recent Western Zone Rendezvous. He was pretty much told to pound sand...nothing was available. I speak to the other Western Region Presidents and they give me the same response...crickets!

We have been encouraged to attend sponsored SRT inclusive events, but nothing for the Vipers...Nothing.

The only President in the region that has been able to gain access to SRT and their supports, has been Maurice. He got SRT racing drivers interviews and autographs, meet and greet with the drivers and SRT executives at the Laguna races. Got the best parking spots, sat in the Sky Boxes and ate the catered food. Pretty much access to everything, however the rest of the region has been walled off. I appreciate this success by Maurice, but others noticed the favoritism and are put off by the cold shoulder.

Not sure of the politics here, but many have told me they are losing their interest in the brand because the interface excitement is gone.

We have been shut out of factory tours that were opened up for just a select group. Kind of a clique mentality has been mentioned to me my several members.

Due to the distain Ralph showed for the club and the politics of opening a spin off club, many members have circled their wagons, and spend their enthusiasm at the local club event level. Local club Presidents, for the most part, have a very loyal and enthusiastic membership. They love to go on rides and events. They enjoy the company of each other, and value the social nature of these events. For many Viper owners, this is the only time they take their cars on the road. Without these events the cars would reside dusty in their garages.

I have noticed that many Regional Presidents have been reaching out to neighboring clubs to engage in multi club events. These are well received, and the host club is usually very proud to show off their local favorite driving roads and venues.

Believe this may be in response of the vacuum felt at the national level.

So, I believe there may be a silver lining in all this. People only buy from people they like. If they feel that SRT does not like them...so it goes, and other manufacturers will welcome them with open arms. Just as SRT thought they would draw buyers from other manufacturers, those same manufacturers have been gobbling up previous Viper owners that no longer feel the LOVE.

What A Joke. Do you really believe that?. Wow


Ok, moving on. I have the means to buy pretty well any car I want (well maybe not a Bugatti. lol), but after seeing the way ACR's can corner, and also the fact that there is only a "reported" 40 hp difference between the 2. The Gen V didn't interest me. Like other's have said, the Gen 4 ACR looks like a Viper should. Mean.

Now if they (SRT) make an ACR that looks like that GT3R....With at least 700 hp, I will buy one.

 

[v10enomous]

The GenV is amazing. It already holds the record at Laguna Seca and did it without huge bolt on aero and with all the creature comforts and technology and with less weight. A GenV is quicker in straight line acceleration and will destroy an ACR in top speed. They will sell like crazy at Gen4 pricing or even slightly higher or better yet at Gen4 discount pricing. Had they not built so many big dollar GTS's and if they offered a Vert and an ACR they would easily sell 2,000 cars.

 

[Bobpantax]

Just for Jack B with a few edits.

I think a huge factor, in addition to the obvious sluggish economy and price factor, is the failure to follow through on the calibration issue. Let's face it. Many of those who can afford the car would either want to mod it immediately or at least know that they could mod it later if they choose to.

Dick Winkles said in a public video that the engine was built to take boost because he knew that many Viper owners like boost. ( Dick drove my car at Palm Beach Int'l and I am sure that he has driven many other members boosted cars.) That got many of us excited. Then when Ralph told us that Mopar was likely to have an offroad controller, that got us a bit more excited.

But nothing has happened and expectations that were created have not been met. One would have thought that the lesson was learned after the posts concerning the Gen IV which had the same calibration limitations. But at least in the case of the Gen IV, the Mopar offroad controller, with air filter, headers and a catback exhaust replacement could add 65 to 70 HP without a problem.

The Gen V programming is, from what we have been told, far more complex than the Gen IV programming and has even more protective alogrithms making the problem worse not better. So the calibration problem limits the Viper from being made into a monster like many of us like to do to varying degrees without having to use a different controller and all that goes with that change.

Since the Ferrari, Audi R8, McClaren and Porsche, etc. crowd do not seem to be stepping up to the buying plate in significant numbers as desired by SRT, SRT's market is pretty small. ( I always thought it would be a hard sell getting that crowd into a Chrysler dealership and the 25K SRT front fee and some tech training, by themselves, do not create the same purchasing environement. Those of you who have been in The Collection in Coral Gables down here know what I mean.)

I think that SRT needs to get back to the basics of what a Viper was, and should be, again. It was, and should be, a very reasonably priced, class dominating, NO FRILLS vehicle that can be made even more outrageous for a reasonable amount of money. Pretty, plush and nannytech ( except that nannytech mandated by law), are not Viper. Mean looking - the meaner the better - somewhat Spartan, and driver skill dependent are Viper. Put another way, Viper is not really Halley Berry. Viper is more like one of those extremely fit, good looking women who appear in some MMA matches who are interesting to look at but can also kick the s**t out of anyone who rubs them the wrong way. Viper should be a male subculture, macho, over the top experience. The heck with trying to cater to Hermes belted p*****s. Please excuse the rant. Watching Dirty Harry turn into a bit of a wus has not been easy on my ancient senses.

I want to thank Chorps for the computer advice. It worked. Is this better Jack? LOL.

Bob:

no disrespect, but, your posts usually have great content (I enjoy them), but, they are so hard to follow due to the fact they are one paragraph no matter how long they are. I probably should not be casting stones, my sentence structure usually *****.

 

[johniew398]

Price doesn't deter me if it's a car I like. Having said that, the Gen V is getting into territory pricewise where there are other choices. I get get a Mercedes SLS AMG GT for about $50k more than a fully loaded Viper. I'm not saying they compare, I'm just saying the increased price is probably driving some people to other brands.

 

[chorps]

I want to thank Chorps for the computer advice. It worked. Is this better Jack? LOL.

You're welcome.

 

[balance]

-Price
-Production delays
-Motor Trend reviews specifically
-Dealer mark up on top of the price hike
-Dumb SRT - GTS "models" and dumb dealers ordering up GTS with a bunch of options
-No loyalty shown to previous Viper owners
-Lack of aftermarket support
-No Vert
-No ACR

I feel like a broken record here. Many of us have been saying it since day one. I love the Viper, I would love to have a Gen V, I would even consider giving up my Gen IV ACR for one. But damned if I would do that to have a car that costs my ACR and 30, 40, 50, 60 or even 70 grand to have a car that has marginally better performance numbers, "looks soft" compared to the ACR and has the same lack of aftermarket support that my current Gen IV has with no loyalty if I were to order one new. (To clarify, I think the Gen V looks great! It's **** and I applaud them on the job they have done. However for me, it needs some more intimidation factor.. I am sure that will come with the ACR)

I don't' have my magazine in front of me for 2010 I can check when I get home, but:

- 2008 there were 1579 Vipers made. 712 were roadsters, 179 were ACRs. So 56% were not the "coupe" which is all that is currently avail in the GEN V.
- 2009 251 of the 659 Vipers produced were ACRs. 167 of those were roadsters. Another words 63% were NOT a"base" coupe.
- From what I recall 2010, most of the very few 2010s made were ACRs.

So the Gen IV was trending each year to having more ACRs, more performance vehicles and less standard coupes, even roadster production was waning. I am glad SRT started with the coupe, and its still early, its only 1 model year, but they went the complete opposite way the Viper was trending for all of Gen IV. I get it. It takes time. SRT did a lot with what they had and I applaud that. Once the roadster hits, the ACR drops and the teething of a first year production finishes I am sure the tone and media will change. I await..

Finally.. please don't forget the loyal customers. Someone who shells out this kind of money or special order their car should NOT be left in limbo wondering when they will have their car, where it is in the build/delivery process. And once they have their car and if there is an issue, a special hotline the customer can call to speak with someone from SRT would do wonders... Treat you customers like royalty where it counts. Service. Service will keep the doors open and lights on, not with leather headliners check boxes and 14,000 paint colors.

I'm done. My thinking out loud is spent.

Agreed and share your GenV passion.

 

[PDCjonny]

The GenV is amazing. It already holds the record at Laguna Seca and did it without huge bolt on aero and with all the creature comforts and technology and with less weight. A GenV is quicker in straight line acceleration and will destroy an ACR in top speed. They will sell like crazy at Gen4 pricing or even slightly higher or better yet at Gen4 discount pricing. Had they not built so many big dollar GTS's and if they offered a Vert and an ACR they would easily sell 2,000 cars.

Nonsense. The SRT's ARE at Gen 4 pricing or slightly above and they're not selling.

 

[JETSTAR]

Definitely not a good sign. I'd imagine those meetings at Chrysler/SRT to discuss Viper sales aren't too fun to attend. 7-month late deliveries, and screwing those of us that had orders for them really leaves a lasting impression. Dealerships should have never gotten inventory cars before customer pre-ordered cars were built, period. If I had known that would have happened, I'd not have ordered mine. I'd have just waited to find one close enough on any given dealer's lot.

Me too
It really sucked having almost the same car as mine sitting on a dealer lot 10 miles from me for almost a month before mine showed up and it had a higher S/N
Just for comparison my C7 showed up this week on time and it's no Viper but I have to admit it's pretty nice

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[v10enomous]

Nonsense. The SRT's ARE at Gen 4 pricing or slightly above and they're not selling.

Base price on a 2010 was $91k including leather. The base on a 2013 is $102k and leather is $3k extra. There are actually some new 2010's still on lots. The GenV is light years ahead of the Gen4. Even the biased journalists that don't like Vipers and guys like Randy Pobst will tell you the same thing.