Viper vs Ford GT

[Snakester]

I am paying attention. A different class means what you said "superior technology, and better HP/L" I would add build quality and manufacture rep.. and this new Ford will be in a different, higher class than the Viper. Especially, Gen1 & Gen2 Vipers. I own a Gen1 by the way.

I don't think that the engineering decisions for the Viper are a flaw. They are a choice.
Having a simpler design is important in terms of reliability and durability.
I don't see huge gaps, or have rattles, and nothing has broken down, or broken off. So I'm quite pleased with the build quality of the car. Would I pay $50,000 for nicer trim molding, carpet, and higher quality leather interior. Nope.
I got some MGW trim pieces to spice up the inside a bit, but otherwise I'm very happy with it.

$$ for $$ nothing beats the Z06... funny how we don't like to hear that until all the attention is paid to a car that costs more, then it's "fine but it's $60,000 more!!".

It all depends on how much you want to spend. the ZO6 IS a great deal for a $50K+ performance car, and likewise $35K for a SVT Cobra provides amazing bang for the buck. They are not a Viper in the same way that the SRT-10 Viper is not an Enzo.

The comp is great though. The SRT should be at 550 either next year or 06 and the Coupe shouldn't have a problem approaching 600HP. I'd pay $100,000 for a SRT Coupe IF Dodge would figure out how to provide actual customer service and have build quality at much higher level. Try Competing with Lamborghini and Ferrari in something else besides 0-100-0. I agree that's the most important thing but you can't just completely ignore the rest as Dodge seems to.

I agree that dealers should have specially certified PVO mechanics, and customer service that is a noticable step above what a Neon or minivan owner gets, for your $85K+ spent.

But DCX is actually competing in an area outside of just performance, it's value.

At more than double the price of the SRT-10 Viper, the Ferrari 360 and Lambo Gallardo offer nearly comparable performance, more prestige, nicer fit and finish, and better dealer support.
For some people (whom money is not a concern) that's worth paying the bags of extra cash for the difference.

Not me.

I would however consider paying an extra $15K for a factory supercharged Viper with 650-700HP though.
THAT would be money well spent.

-Dean.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

That “for the money” argument always sounds like begrudging somebody for getting a different car. Which is really amusing when talking about a $150K. Unless the owner of a $150K car is as financially irresponsible as I am he could always trade it in and not lose any sleep over any $ loss.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, congrats to Ford for following Dodge’s lead in building a <font color="red">different</font> car. I’d love to have one someday but it will be after I get a few more Vipers.

 

[ACR Joe]

All I wan to know is when will a Gen III Coupe (GTS or ACR) be available? Does anyone have a definitive answer?

Who cares about the Ford GT, Ferrari, Lambo, Corvette, etc. For varying reasons, most of us are Viper people and will likely remain so. Not having a a Gen III Coupe, however, is making it tough to hang in!

 

[FE 065]

Wow, lots of controversy! As I wrote the lead post I noted it did sound like a Supra/Mustang etc owner comparing equal performance for less money. Maybe it's the same thing (omg)... or maybe it's how you say it. I was just saying that after seeing the GT in Motor Trend, that personally car doesn't create any 'wish I had one' feeling in me, believe me.. for most of my life I have wished I had a Ford GT. Just a contented feeling that's a bit suprising to me I thought I'd mention, rather than a gearhead-my car's faster than yours' feeling, or a (sniff) 'I can't afford it so it *****' statement. While I love my GTS, I don't put it on a pedestal, nor walk around with a superlative attitude (inner or outer) about owning the car. At the Viper Vette drags I was as interested in what the Vette guys were running under their hoods as I was the Viper. It's all good I'm guess I'm finally contented, even the late model Diablo at a local cruise a month ago with its' 12cyl (nice!) stuffed in the back didn't WoW me. From a visual/styling and 'what's interesting under the hood' standpoint my unbiased opinion is the GTS can proudly compete with most anything short of a hyper-exotic McLaren F1, Saleen , etc.

 

[YouWish]

Saw one yesterday. One word, AWESOME! If I had an extra $150K, I would get one.

The hood is gross looks like you can take a bath in it.

 

[vipah]

For NEW cars (2003+)

Performance per dollar has to go to the Z06
Performance per dollar + exclusivity has to go to the SRT
Outrageous looks + Performance per dollar + Exclusivity has to go to the GT

We can speculate how much the GT will actually go for, so I am assuming sticker price for my comparisons.

Hopefully Dodge will up the ante with a coupe that brings the styling back to the Viper, but I am not so sure they will. It seems to me that the SRT isn't invoking the strong desire nearly as well as the first Vipers so bringing on a new model may not be in the cards.

It also seems that DC is looking to the Mercedes moniker for the exotic performance.

 

[ChoiceViper]

You won't be seeing the new GT's on the road much, if at all, due to low production numbers.
And I would'nt count on that $150,000 price tag. I remember reading somewhere that all of the first cars produced (not sure how many) will be auctioned off for at least three or four hundred grand.
I'll be keeping the Viper for now.

 

[OutThere]

"You won't be seeing the new GT's on the road much, if at all, due to low production numbers."

I have read that Ford intends to produce 1,500 GTs a year during a 3 year production run.

Which makes the $150,000 price tag more difficult to understand. Pirce it at $120,000 and really blow away the European offerings.

 

[jrkermode]

The first 3 cars were auctioned off at Pebble Beach in August. I recall they sold near $350k (I could not find the exact prices on Christies website). However, the Monterey weekend auctions are rarely indicative of real world prices.

Ford can probably get whatever they want the first year, however, it would seem unlikely they can maintain a price 2 X SRT in the subsequent years.

Don't forget Chevy is sitting back and watching all this. So, they can show up with a car better than the SRT and better than the GT for less money than either. Sure it would cost them some money, but imagine the favorable press it would generate.

 

[Marv S]

http://www.fordvehicles.com/fordgt/specs.asp

notice what important spec is not mentioned?

 

[SylvanSRT]

weight the motor trend says TARGET weight!

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Don't forget Chevy is sitting back and watching all this. So, they can show up with a car better than the SRT and better than the GT for less money than either. Sure it would cost them some money, but imagine the favorable press it would generate.

They've been "sitting back" since 92 and I wouldn't bet on them coming out with a contender for the SRT (Coupe by then). They never could compete against Oreca.

As far as "favorable press" they sure could use it.

 

[Hissses]

The first 3 cars were auctioned off at Pebble Beach in August. I recall they sold near $350k (I could not find the exact prices on Christies website). However, the Monterey weekend auctions are rarely indicative of real world prices.

Ford can probably get whatever they want the first year, however, it would seem unlikely they can maintain a price 2 X SRT in the subsequent years.

Don't forget Chevy is sitting back and watching all this. So, they can show up with a car better than the SRT and better than the GT for less money than either. Sure it would cost them some money, but imagine the favorable press it would generate.

According to Hemmings Muscle Machines it was #10 and sold for $557,500 with the proceeds going to various charities. "The undisclosed winner gets to pick his choice of color and options when the car actually goes to production in the spring"
Thats what 5 comp coupes?

 

[Marv S]

Great looking car but the project started with weight of less than 3000 lbs @ $100k. Both numbers have grown faster than inflation. Last I read was that it scaled in at 3,500 lbs. And the official site doesn't even touch the question.

http://www.nctd.com/sneakpreview.cfm?ReviewID=24

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=19&amp;article_id=6737&amp;page_number=2

 

[Motor City Mad Man]

Well, regardless of what some of you think, I think the new Ford GT is a beauty. Maybe not worth the price compared to a Viper given the performance, but if a person had more money than they knew what to do with, it would be a nice car to get.

On a side note, I saw a new Ford GT on the road today around 4 PM (white with blue stripes) after I got out of a meeting in Dearborn. It was about a mile from where they are developing it. The driver looked like Bill Ford himself from the quick glance I got of him (I know he got one of the first 3 built and it was white with blue stripes). Sounded and looked awesome. Brings a smile to my face every time I see one. And I have been seeing more and more of them around Dearborn.

 

[GTSnake]

I saw a white one with red stripes cruising down Southfield just past the world headquarters the other day. Other than that sighting the only ones I've seen were in the test labs.

 

[jcaspar1]

I saw and heard one at the Concorso Italiano in Monterey. Beautiful car and sounded great. I read an article in Autoweek that lamented Ford remaking a classic sports car rather than designing a new one and going racing with it. It is nice to see Ford with a exotic sports car. Hopefully Chevy will enter the market with something similar soon. Wouldn't trade my Viper for one but it would be nice to have one in the garage next to it....

P.S. The Saleen S-7 sounded the most amazing of the cars I heard, better than the GT, Diablo or Vector.

 

[Fast Freddy]

i want a ford gt-44. but i wouldn't pay more than $150,000 for a new one. so i will probably have to wait for the price gouging to come down and then buy 1 used for like $100,000. i feel that the car will cost ford about $100,000 - $115,000 to build. if i was ford i would list the sticker price (msrp) at $125,000. i would not let my salespeople sell if for less than sticker + tax out the door. so this means that buyers would be paying a minimum of $135,000 out the door for the car. unfortunately the cars will end selling for $150,000+ as a result of supply and demand. the first gt-44 sold publicly went for $557,000!!! ouch!

 

[Marv S]

The mags really want the GT to do well. "Ferrari killer" and other fawnings abound even before putting it through the paces. The new Car &amp; Driver lists the Weight of GT40 at 3400 pounds. More than the SRT-10. Then there is the little issue of drag. It's been tough for Ford to get it under .40 and looks to end up at about .39 - not much different than the SRT-10 Convertible! Remember how the mags pounded the .35 cd of the GTS as a way to high number?
As for the 500 hp, how much more can they do with it as it seems many hot rod tips &amp; tricks have been done at factory level? The SRT has way more to get out of it (even before putting a blower on it)

So as the mags gush about this great looking $150k car with the weight and areo of a Viper and take their test drives they make some bold predictions on performance. We'll see if they pan out.........

It is interesting how the media is acting as a huge fan of the GT and acting like the SRT does not even exist. I have noted that the Viper and other DC products are seldom used in comparisons. That trend continued for the GT as they compared it to the Vette, Ferrari and Lamborghini. Odd, unless of course they do not want to point out a competitor that actually challenges the GT performance.

page 53
",,,the GT should be able to sprint from 0 to 60 mph in a scalding 3.7 seconds or even less-quicker than the Viper"

So they did at least mention the Viper in passing, BUT, I don't see how the estimated 3.7 seconds is possible, I mean, its now weighing in at about 3300 pounds, and is going to have 500hp and 500pound feet of torque. With those numbers, they should get about 3.9 or 4.0 seconds from 0-60, just like the SRT, right? Or is there a weight transfer advantage with that mid-engine, that the SRT doesn't have?

To add to my confusion, there is the 2006 ZO6 with its purported 500hp, hydro-formed lightweight frame, should have a great power to weight ratio, and then theres the Gen3 Coupe to look forward to, which is a much better car for the money that the GT. So I dunno, the GT is a tuff sell. But I sure do like the looks.

 

[MES]

It's a very nice car I'd like to have one, but not at $150k I can't see Ford selling 1,500 a year for 3 years at $150k each. I don't think there are 4,500 people in America with that kind of $$ that would want the car. Sure the first couple hundred will go like hot cakes but after that it'll be a tough sell. I was thinking Ford would **** up the cost as a marketing expense and sell the car at a loss or maybe just sell them at the material cost. But it seems like they are trying to break even or maybe actually make a profit.

BTW Motor Trend has the latest revision at 3,300 lb, 500HP, 0-60 3.7 sec, 11.7@122 in the 1/4 and 60-0 100 feet, all just estimates as they didn't actually test the car. It seems to be getting fatter and more expensive as time passes.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Since I first heard about the GT I've been really looking forward to a GTS-GT competition. But if Ford really sticks to a limited production run then we won't see many on the track. Too bad. Garage queens get no respect regardless of how fast they might be.

 

[CHAD]

Chuck, at 1500 GT's a year (quoting the number above), doesn't that equal the number of Vipers built each year?

Chad

 

[Magicboy2]

BADASP,

It's my understanding that Viper production numbers are around 3000/yr

 

[CHAD]

Oh

Thanks,

Chad

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Chad, it's my understanding that they will cease production in 06 due to more strict crash test bs.

 

[treynor]

I like the new GT's looks, but would much prefer (and have!) the SRT. Essentially identical performance, easier to tune / modify, half the price, and a droptop to boot - seems like a no-brainer to me.

I am disturbed to see how the GT keeps porking up as it gets closer to production. The Vette and Viper have both managed to keep weight in check; if the GT ends up over 3300 lbs it will be a real shame, and the performance may end up -under- that of the SRT.

Also -- Outthere, have you ever driven an SRT? You seem to be implying that all Vipers don't handle / brake, which is simply not the case. Even my '01 RT/10 handles and stops very well, and the SRT is simply amazing. I've driven lots of high-end performance cars, and the SRT is as close to a streetable race car as I have yet experienced. I'm sure the GT will also be good, but not any quantum leap over the SRT, especially with that weight distribution.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

It's my understanding that Viper production numbers are around 3000/yr

Actually, your year of RT/10 (1994) was the only year to hit 3,000 Vipers built. Other than that, only the year 2000 saw more than 2000 cars built for a single model year - and that was only 2007. The breakdown for all Vipers built by model year, including RT/10, GTS, ACR, GT2, &amp; SRT-10 where applicable:

1992 - 285
1993 - 1043
1994 - 3083
1995 - 1577
1996 - 1887
1997 - 1778
1998 - 1216
1999 - 1463
2000 - 2007
2001 - 1978
2002 - 1622
2003 - 1500*

*estimated

This is total production for worldwide distribution, not just the Vipers for the US market. That averages out to 1620 Vipers per year over 12 years of production. So the 1500 wasn't too far off!

Now, I would then add my thoughts on the Ford GT: At $150,000 you probably won't see many on the roads and even fewer on the tracks. Not that they won't sell them at that price (at least the first year anyway), but not many folks with that kind of coin will buy them to race or even to drive much. Look at the other "exotics" (as evidenced by price) and you rarely see a Murcielago or 360 Modena anywhere except the magazines. And with all due respect to Porsche, with so many variations on the same body style (911) it can be difficult to identify the latest exotic ($$$) vs. an older car with a body kit - especially for those non-Porsche folks.

I have been to a LOT of drag races over the years and to this day the most expensive new car (stock) I have seen there is a Viper. While I have been to less road races, what I have seen there is restricted largely to older model exotics that no longer carry a big price on the used marketplace. I don't think that people that drop $100K+ on a car will generally take it out for anything besides a casual cruise or car show. Ben Treynor excepted.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Also -- Outthere, have you ever driven an SRT? You seem to be implying that all Vipers don't handle / brake, which is simply not the case.

Interestingly enough, he drove the same SRT that you did Ben - MINE! Don't take him wrong, I don't think he is dissing the SRT-10 in anything other than potential build quality vs. the Ford. And I would politely say that the SRT-10 is the best built Viper to date in terms of fit and finish. Doesn't mean it is a better looking car, just that it is probably the most solid Viper built and I don't think the GT will be any better. Realize that Outthere is driving a beautiful Gen I, however the difference between a Gen I and the Gen III is night and day in almost every respect, especially in braking.

And I would also note that Ben managed to get another 60+ rwhp out of his SRT-10 for UNDER $3,000. Heck, this is what most Viper owners pay for a good set of headers with less results. Figure his SRT-10 is making about 585 horsepower at the flywheel. Throw on what are now world-class brakes and world-class suspension and I think the Ford GT will be very hard pressed indeed.

 

[MES]

I'm sure the GT will also be good, but not any quantum leap over the SRT, especially with that weight distribution.

The GT has a 43/57 weight distribution. I thought the reason why to go mid engine was to get 50/50 The GTS has 49/51 (if I remember correctly) and I'm not sure about the SRT but the GT seems to be tail heavy. Is it better have more weight in the rear for a road course? Regardless it's on my top 5 favorite cars and I wouldn't mind picking up a used one in a couple of years

 

[fluffy]

Mid engined cars very rarely have 50/50. The benefit comes from having the mass of the engine located closer to the center of gravity, making it easier to for the car to rotate quickly which translates into better handling. For example, the Toyota MR Spyder is 44/56, the NSX is 42/58, Lotus Elise is also 42/58, and the 360 modena is 43/57.