Viper vs. ZO6 = Bad Comparison

[King GTS]

I'm not trying to make waves, although this is a Viper board. I'm just curious as to why people compare the ZO6 to a Viper? In my opinion, there is no comparison! All across the board. Both cars have their highs & lows but to compare it w/ a Viper? I just think that doesn't make sense & that's just my opinion. I think a better comparison for the ZO6 would be a Saleen or Z28 SS or something like that. According to Road & Track the 02 Saleen does a 12.6 if I remember correctly.

Stock vs. stock = Viper wins all day long!! Go all the way w/ either car = the Viper still wins! What's there to talk about?

Now if you want to talk @ the brakes, cornering, AC in 100 degree weather, ya know....."creature comforts" that's one thing. But other than that??

You corvette guys have lost me.

 

[MES]

IMHO the Z06 is the closest car to the Viper made today. By closest I don't just mean 1/4 times but over all. I don't own a Z and have never even driven in one, but GM did a good job designing the car. Now maybe the Z is not up to par with the Viper in every aspect but the cars are very close and that's why they get compared to each other.

Some points of comparison. They are not all exactly the same that's for sure but try and match up the 10 items below. You will find no other car made matches all 10 except the Z06 and Viper.

1. American made/designed
2. Big CI engines
3. power to weight ratio within 5%
4. Front engine, rear wheel drive
5. IRS (Independent rear suspension)
6. T56 six speed transmission
7. Both 12 sec cars from the factory (debatable, maybe 11 for Vipers)
8. Both fiberglass bodies (it's not fiberglass but I don't know what its called)
9. Appeal to the same demographic market
10. Styling - 2 seats, low ground clearance, long hood, hatch back, big low profile tires, approx. same size (length width height)

I'm not taking anything away from the Viper I'm just pointing out they are more similar than different. Competition is a good thing. I for one don't think the Z06 would exist today if the Viper was not here. So just from that, I have to say the Z06 does compare/compete against the Viper.

 

[King GTS]

Thanks MES. I guess I never thought about it like that. I just always looked at it from a HP - Speed - 1/4 Mile - point of view. Coupled w/ the fact that there's so many other comparisons out there (Supra, Mitsubishi VR4, Z28 SS, Saleen, Stealth TT) I never took those points into consideration. I see your point though.

I think the ZO6 is a great little car though. The ultimate rain vehicle in my view. No pun intended. I agree w/ you though...I love competition! That's what makes it so much fun.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SGC:
King,

I own both and completely agree with MES. BTW MES, I will bring my Z06 to Moroso this week. If we hook up, I'll take you for a spin if you're interested.

Steve

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


What's going on at Moroso this week?

 

[King GTS]

Darth,

Now you don't have just any ol' ZO6! After checkin @ the local 'rumor mill' - I heard you've actually got one of the fastest ZO6's in Houston! (My dad gotta kick outta that. He knows how I wanna be that fastest) Soooooooooooo....Your car don't count!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I definitely wanna go for a test spin in your ride though. I've never been in a Corvette/ZO6 w/ that much power. I saw your Post @ the C&D Article. Don't really know how to answer that one. I can't wait to get it though! is it out now?


Oh yeah...Your car deserves some respect, you've earned it.

 

[King GTS]

WOW!!!!!!! Now how's that for an explanation Jon Paul (Darth)!!!
I was actually upset at the fact that the ACR lost! I couldn't understand it! I couldn't believe it! I didn't know what happened or could have possibly happened!!


Bryan,
Your Post made my day! Thanks for that information for us less astute individuals! i.e. Me...

Well Darth, I'm eager to hear a response to this.

 

[King GTS]

According to the February/2001 isuue of Car and Driver and I quote,


"Beyond the basic formula of a big engine out front, fat driven wheels to the rear, and one very happy driver perched in the middle, the ZO6 and the Viper have little in common."

The numbers that count......

Viper was 3.6 sec quicker to 150 mph...

Viper was 0.4 sec faster in the 1/4 Mile...

Viper was 1.4 sec per lap faster on the road course...

 

[ASASN]

This is my first post!! I've had a username & password for sometime, but it wasn't activated til the other day!! It's probably not going to be recieved well!!

Let me start by saying I love all cars, but I am a Corvette guy at heart!!!

I purchased a 99 Silver GTS (4900 miles) sometime around the first of June and sold the car about a month ago (6100 miles)!! I bought the car to see what all the fuss was about with the Viper!! The car had Borla Exhaust, Mopar CPU Upgrade, Modified Air-Box w/ K&N's!! The car made pretty good power, 434.8 rwhp & 486.6 rwtq!! Well, personally this car was not for me, maybe I had a bad one or something, but the other four or five I've driven drove the same way!!! At speeds (140+), the car front end wanted to hunt all over the place!! Another thing that I couldn't get past was having to shift the car at 5500 rpms! On the dyno sheet, the car falls off after 5500 as quick as it gets there!!
In cornering, maybe this was driver and my inexperience with the car, the way you could oversteer the car very easily!! Not to mention, the butt wanting to come around on you without any notice!! Maybe there's some things that I could've done to correct these problems, but you figure something that expensive would be taken care of for you!! My first drive in the car was 500 miles from Nashville Tn. to home, the car has a very rough ride, I was happy to get the car home and park it for a while!!!

Someone in another post said they weren't worried about not having Active Handling, Cruise Control, ABS, Oil Temp Gauge, even a cup holder, well that fine cause you really don't have much of a choice, it isn't offered!! Sorry, ABS was introduced in 2000 I believe!! I won't even get started on gas mileage, it *****!!As far as styling goes, the Viper is an awesome looking car, if you want to stop traffic, this is the car!!

Don't get me wrong, the Vette has some short-comings!! The butt end of the car being the biggest, but I'm not close-minded enough not to notice it!! Yeah, the Z06 may be down on power to the Viper, but not by as much as people like to believe!! I mean, you're talking about a car that can't produce 1hp per cubic inch!! The Z06 is at least doing that and getting 27+ MPG to boot!! I would hope the Viper would be a little quicker in a straight line (which isn't always the case) considering it has a 142CI advantage!! I hate to bring up a modified car, but take a 415 ZR1 for instance, these cars are consistantly in the 10's and they've got a 73ci disadvantage to the Viper, what's up with that?

I believe it was Bryan S. that said the Vette hasn't been "King of The Hill" since 92!! I assume you are meaning with the introduction of the NO AC, NO WINDOW, NO ROOF, NO DOOR HANDLED, ETC,ETC, Viper taking its place!! Well, I personally would like to have a finished car before I handed over the title, not a glorified "KIT" car! Hell, the Vette has at least had AC since the early 60's, windows, roofs and door handles!! You could have bought a Cobra Replica, built a 427 for it, pocketed $15K and had more of a head turner, with heritage!!

Look, I've been very fortunate to have a ZR1, Z06 and a Viper all in the garage at the same time, each car has it's short-comings and personally the Viper had the most....IN MY OPINION!!! I'm sure I'll probably get alot of heat from this post and that's OK, I listened to everyone else's opinion and now I've said mine!!

Thanks for the time!!! Just another gear head with an opinion!!

 

[Martin D]

ASASHOLN,

You are right, the Viper is not for everyone. And, you are entitled to your opinion.

Hopefully, your '99 went to someone who would appreciate it.


Regards,

 

[ASASN]

Martin.......I expected that!! I'm glad I'm entitled to my opinion!! Like I said, the car wasn't for me!! I'm glad you're happy with yours and I hope you get all the enjoyment out of it that you can!!

Yes, the guy that bought the car is very happy with it, thanks for your concern!!!

BTW....LOVED the way you addressed me, you must have hit a couple of wrong keys!

Thanks,

Mike Perlis

 

[Martin D]

oops, yes, it appears I did....

 

[King GTS]

Welcome to the Board ASASN.

 

[ASASN]

King GTS!!

Thanks for the welcome!!

 

[MES]

Hey, ASASN I liked your post. A good comparison between the cars. I have to admit one of the reason I like the Viper over the Z06 is the looks, rarity, and gawk factor among many other things of course. If I had to get another car to replace the Viper it would probably be an old 1969 Corvette with a big block. Some people get attached to a particular car like they do to a Football or Baseball team, then reality can get distorted.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 1bad gts:
IM 40 when i was growing up every kid had a Vette poster in his bedroom(the Vette was the AMERICAN DREAM CAR ),that stopped short as soon as the Viper appeared.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think your giving it too much credit. I'm 41 and I also wanted a Vette when I was in high school. But the demise of the Vette being the "American Dream Car" began long before the Viper was introduced. Now they're playing catch up.

Welcome ASASN

 

[Maverick The Electrician]

The viper is a car you must learn to drive. It is like no other. The first week I got mine I thought I had made a mistake. Now as I am a better driver, I couldn't see going with anything else. I have drove almost every car from $ 100,000- 300,000. And IMO the Viper is still #1

 

[ASASN]

1Bad.......Hey, I agree with you 110%!! I'm as frustrated with Chevrolet as most Corvette owners are, I too would like a low production bad a$$ Corvette!! Chevrolet has got the perfect platform to do it with, handling, light wieght and reliable!!

I'm sure with the 500/500/500, the gap will be further apart!! I said the Viper was a head turner and it is, but still, you're talking about 500+ CI and just pulling 500 HP!!

I take nothing away from the Viper, it just wasn't for me!! With a $75,000 price tag (new), I just thought that the car should be a little more! I know it was built for a purpose and they sell everyone of them, more power to 'em!!! I give Dodge all the credit in the world for having the b*lls to build it, I personally just wish they would finish it!
Really though, wouldn't Cruise Control be nice, from the factory!!

 

[ASASN]

Mes.....Thanks for the responce and you're right!! I'm a HUGE Texas Longhorn fan and I've never been to a game or even to Austin for that matter, but I watch and get upset everytime they lose or give a game away!!

Hey, I'll be the first one to admit that the Corvette is playing catch-up, but it's not as far behind as people like to believe!

As far as the demise of the Corvette coming before the Viper was introduced! The 1990 ZR1 with its LT5 is now 12 Yrs old and is still one of the most technologicly advanced cars out there! Hey, it had its short-comings also! Chevrolet did give up on this and as 1Bad said, started producing for the masses!!

I'll tell you this, if Chevrolet would build a car, with a 427, making 500+ from the factory, somewhere in the price range as a Viper, which they could probably come in a little under that, I'd be the FIRST som-b#tch in line to get one!! I don't think I'd be too far off saying that there's some people here that would be there with me!!

1Bad, I hope these guys are right!! I've heard a couple of rumors about of a twin-cam engine also!! One things for sure, looks like this is gonna go on for years to come!!

Man, I tell you guys, I love talking cars!! This is great!!

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ASASN:
a 427, making 500+ from the factory, somewhere in the price range as a Viper,

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now you're talkin'!!! But why stop at 427 cubes? How about a 454?

 

[MES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Now you're talkin'!!! But why stop at 427 cubes? How about a 454?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why stop at 454? How about the 496 that they put in the trucks?

 

[ASASN]

I like the 427!! With GM bringing old racing RPO's such as ZR1, Z06 out of the closet, I think they should go ahead and bring out the baddest boy of them all!!

I could see it now.......

"Introducing an entirely NEW level of OVERKILL, ladies and gentleman the all new ZL-1 427 Z06!! Racing heritage has taken on a whole NEW meaning!!"

I'd be there with bells on and cash in hand ready, to hand it over!! Hell, I'd probably be throwing it at 'em!!

 

[treynor]

Yep, 2003 could be fun. Just imagine the magazine shootout:

$180K Porsche GT2 (468 BHP, 3400 lbs)
vs
$75K Viper SRT-10 (520 BHP, 3350 lbs)
vs
$55K Corvette ZL-1 (490 BHP*, 3150 lbs)

Regardless of the outcome, I personally think it's great to see America putting out world-****** sports cars.

* 490 BHP extrapolated from current 405 BHP as follows: 405 * (427 / 351) = 492

 

[Jim Hodel]

Hi ASASN. I had sort of the opposite experience too you. My wife and I bought a 99 GTS new, and owned it for a year and a half before we bought a new 01 Z06. To me, the Viper has a distinct advantage in SOTP pants acceleration, especially in the top end. I honestly think the Viper pulls harder at 160 mph then the Vette does at 120 mph.

As far as handling goes, the Vette does have better road feel which makes it easier to tell where the limits of adhesion are, however I find the handling of the Viper to be quite good. I've run a few track days, including a couple or rain days, and the predominant characteristic in the Viper is mild understeer.

The Viper certainly has it's set of flaws, but the Vette does as well. It has a confounded soft feeling clutch, and uses over twice as much oil as the Viper. My motto with the Z06 is, 'just add oil and enjoy'.

My wife and I do like both cars, but if we were to sell one, it would be the Vette. The Viper is a car that I plan to own for many years. I honestly believe that in 10 plus years the Viper will still be a really cool car, while the Z06 will be just another 10 year old Corvettte. I somehow do not see the Z06 achieving ZR1 status.

Anyway, isn't it great that we have such a fantastic choice of cars from which too choose??

Jim

 

[ASASN]

Jim......I agree with you 100%!! It's great that we have a choice and are able to voice our opinions!! How boring would life be if we didn't!!

Yes, the Z06 is not without its share of problems and hopefully the oil consumption problem has been solved!! The 2 Z06s' that I've owned, the one I have now and the one I sold, neither of these cars have this problem!! Both of these cars are early cars!! I too was worried about the problem, thankfully I guess I got lucky!! The one I own now, I will say, under extended WOT I might have to add about a half quart the next week or so!! But, this car is not stock anymore!! I had to take the car and do what Chevrolet should of done to start with and I'm not finished yet!! Like I said, they gave us a great platform to do something with, more power is all it needs, so that's what I'll give it!

No, I also don't see the Z06 reaching ZR1 status, 3 World Endurance and 12 International Class Records speaks for itself! I know a couple of the records were broken this year by a non-production 12 cylinder VW, but the ZR1 still claims quite a few!! Hey, the ZR1 isn't without its share of problems either!

Hell, they're all great cars and I'm gonna agree with you again, it is great to have a choice!!

Too each his(or her) own!!! What a great country we live in!!!

 

[speedpup]

I love my Grand Sport, I love my 99 I road race, if I win lotto GTS blue with white stripes. Love them all and can't wait for Pocono with the Vipers 4-8-02 and my pesky 99. I hate Porsches beat by a Viper I don't mind.

 

[DanElam]

CLAP CLAP CLAP!!!! Nice job everyone. I love the discussion on this topic. I'll add my $0.02.

First, I can certainly see why people would compare the cars. Let's not forget that DC and GM obviously see it that way too - look at their race programs if you have any doubts.

Second, I think it helps to remember why the cars are made. For Chrysler, the Viper proved to the world that they could make something other than a K-car. It changed their image and gave them experience with composites - something they needed for minivans. I don't think it is an understatement to say that the Viper helped to save Chrysler. When it came out, they didn't need to sell many cars - they just needed it to have a Dodge label.

GM has looked at the Corvette as one of their most consistently profitable brands. GM wants to make them easy to drive and appeal to a certain profile where they can sell a lot of cars. GM wants to sell a lot of cars. The Corvette has a history in American culture that the Viper will never achieve. As far as why the cars exist, they are both important, but they certainly are different.

On to performance. I have had a couple of students with the Z06 and it is hard not to be impressed with the cars. They are tricked out for 0-60 and not 0-150. They do have better brakes than the Viper. They are probably equivalent to 92-95 Viper overall and a bit behind a 96-02 Viper (esp. GTS)

The real advantage to the Z06 is that it can be driven as an everyday car much better the Viper. The Vette features a star wars type panel while the Viper instantly takes me back to the 60s muscle cars. I could be a traveling salesman and have a Vette. I probably wouldn't be comfortable doing that with a Viper. The Viper attracts a ton of attention and you get the nice parking space at the restaraunt. The Vette projects an image of middle-aged guy with a mid-life the crisis. The Viper can project this too, but it's eccentric enough that the owner really just might like to drive performance cars.

So I'll keep my Viper, thank you. But I'll also take my hat off to GM for continuing the make the Vetter better and for not just giving up without a fight. After all, Ford can only play with a Mustang (great value for the masses) or an overpriced Aston-Martin.

 

[King GTS]

BUMP!!

 

[laptopman]

I have owned 3 Corvettes in my life a 2002 Z06, a 2001 Stroked Carroll Stage 6 Supercharged 580rwhp z06 and a 1999 Standard Vette. My current Viper beast is a 2000 Viper ACR TNT Serpent 605 with a bunch of hennessey body kit stuff. So here are some interesting metephors I would like to share with all you fellow Viper Fans here.

2000 Viper ACR Serpent 605 - Pamela Lee Anderson (on crack)
2000 Viper ACR Bone Stock - Robecca Romain Stamos
2002 Z06 - Kirsten Dunst
2001 Z06 Carroll Stage 6 - Alyssa Milano
2000 Ferrari 360 Modena F1 - Rebecca Romain Stamos before she was Stamosed!! LOL

There you have it. For more detailed reviews goto
www.bigmantoys.com

As soon as my 03 Viper comes it's going to TNT. I love those guys!

 

[Gerald]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by noszr1:
I would think that the ZR-1 Corvette was "King of the Hill" until '95 when it was discontinued.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

According to GM it was, but the public knows better......

So lets all let GM brainwash more and more ppl. I"m suprised at how many people do not know that thet TESTED a GEN II gts at a top speed of what... 192?

 

[MES]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I would think that the ZR-1 Corvette was "King of the Hill" until '95 when it was discontinued.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it's debatable who was "The King" from 93-95 but if you go strictly by rated HP the ZR-1 was 405 and the Viper was 400 so the Vette was king by 5 HP for 3 years, if that's the measurement. If you look at top end, 1/4 mile, and 0-60 they were all very close between the ZR-1 and the Viper (gen I that is) Prior to '93 the ZR-1 was rated at 375 HP