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Snake Bitten

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I think we are all missing "the point"...Street racing is only illegal if you get caught!






slaughterj will back me up on this, and he is a patent attorney!!!
 

Janni

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While I know this is a waste of breath, I'll post one last time and call it a day.

Maybe, just maybe, the site was trying ot get a little more laid back and allowing certain things to be posted. However, when it was brought to their attention about the possible "endorsement" aspect by a member, then action had to be taken. NOT because one members opinion is worth more than another, but because it made the board go back to enforcing its own rules.

Then, because street racing is illegal and potentially dangerous - not just for the participants - the video was pulled. And yes, so are clear marker lights and using NOS on the street and using 5 points on the street, but 1) no one is going to get killed using clear marker lights 2) NOS itself is not illegal and 3) it's reasonable to use 5 points on the track.

As much as some folks are stirring the ***, most realize the seriousness and the potential liability of a street race gone bad and an unsuccesful marker light install are not the same thing. The world is not black and white and this site has drawn the line in a shade of grey that they feel is appropriate for the members and the sponsors.

You may not like the decision, but it's really just getting back to a statement that was put forth some time ago about not supporting / condoning or allowing posts on street racing. Things got a little looser around here, but after it was brought to the attention of the board again, it does make sense to enforce the rules that are already here.

And no, I have absolutely no input into how this board is run.
 

GR8_ASP

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The arguments are getting fierce. I can see all the lawyers lining up to have a suit against us for advocating exhaust and emissions deviations. Get a life. The liability issue is not the same. The air bag comment has some validity, but it is doubtful the removal of the airbag is going to harm an innocent bystander.

The level of liability related to street racing is on a whole other level. If you want to take this further why not ask the club to obtain legal advice and then follow it. I pretty much know what the legal advice would be. Do not advocate behaviors that put innocent people at SIGNIFICANT risk.
 

utahviper

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I am at a loss here!! Don't we have the snake pit?? Doesn't it talk about off the wall things legal and not legal?? Does Dodge or the VCA claim responsibility for what is said there?? Like, lets kill Saddam or whatever?? So if the people of Iraq read this and he does get killed then they will hold the VCA and Dodge responsible?? I don't think so! What is wrong with posting videos? Do you really think someone will post a video of someone getting run over by a viper @ 100MPH?? I think that should be banned!

If dodge was responsible for everything said or done on this board then what happen to the compensation for the people who aren't satisfied with tuners work? (H M S) Among others? By banning people from the board does that really decrease their responsiblity for what has already been posted?

AM I to understand that each of these posts is read by a lawyer from dodge to see if they have any reponsiblity.

Since they have read all about my SC'er install then I should hold them liable if the car blows up because they let me post it? I wish, but I don't think that will happen.

Post those videos and listen to your members and owners.
 

SmokinV10

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While I know this is a waste of breath, I'll post one last time and call it a day.

Maybe, just maybe, the site was trying ot get a little more laid back and allowing certain things to be posted. However, when it was brought to their attention about the possible "endorsement" aspect by a member, then action had to be taken. NOT because one members opinion is worth more than another, but because it made the board go back to enforcing its own rules.

Then, because street racing is illegal and potentially dangerous - not just for the participants - the video was pulled. And yes, so are clear marker lights and using NOS on the street and using 5 points on the street, but 1) no one is going to get killed using clear marker lights 2) NOS itself is not illegal and 3) it's reasonable to use 5 points on the track.

As much as some folks are stirring the ***, most realize the seriousness and the potential liability of a street race gone bad and an unsuccesful marker light install are not the same thing. The world is not black and white and this site has drawn the line in a shade of grey that they feel is appropriate for the members and the sponsors.

You may not like the decision, but it's really just getting back to a statement that was put forth some time ago about not supporting / condoning or allowing posts on street racing. Things got a little looser around here, but after it was brought to the attention of the board again, it does make sense to enforce the rules that are already here.

And no, I have absolutely no input into how this board is run.


So an hour or two ago "illegal is illegal" equating ****** to streetracing. Now there is a "shade of grey". Schitzophrenia, is a disease, there is a cure.
 

Anthony - 98 GTS

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The arguments are getting fierce. I can see all the lawyers lining up to have a suit against us for advocating exhaust and emissions deviations. Get a life. The liability issue is not the same. The air bag comment has some validity, but it is doubtful the removal of the airbag is going to harm an innocent bystander.

The level of liability related to street racing is on a whole other level. If you want to take this further why not ask the club to obtain legal advice and then follow it. I pretty much know what the legal advice would be. Do not advocate behaviors that put innocent people at SIGNIFICANT risk.

I thought the point was perfectly clear - Illegal is Illegal and the VCA and Dodge does not support Illegal activities - PERIOD.

So now Illegal activities are okay - everything is based on the LEVEL of liability and risk created by the Illegal activity??? :rolleyes:

So which way is it?? I can't make a post of my GTS with my Momo steering wheel with no air bag but I can make a post about having no headers and no cats??? What risk is SIGNIFICANT? Only risk to others and not to myself?? Only personal injury risk?? Are emissions not significant??
 

Viperzilla

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Burnouts, donuts, and doing anything that includes chirping or spinning the rear tires is illegal. I don't want to see those vids banned either.
 

SmokinV10

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Burnouts, donuts, and doing anything that includes chirping or spinning the rear tires is illegal. I don't want to see those vids banned either.


But what if someone was doing an illegal donut and slammed into someone and died? :rolleyes:
 

Moundir

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wow, I am speechless of all the support of my fellow gear heads and speed junkies :) Thank you all for the support. Hey I am the one out there taking chances with my life and well being for the simple joy of pleasure. I will continue to share that pleasure with you guys, just not on this board I guess. Hey I aint mad @Chris he is just the messenger, infact he enjoys the videos just as much as the next guy. I will send all you guys on this thread an email with the link to where the videos will be posted. Thank you all once again :)
 

Viperzilla

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Just remember Mike, it's just not your life you chance. It's other motorists and the guys you're racing/filming. A rule I go by is that I enjoy and save the races that are/appear safe. Meaning no traffic in area of high speed, no evasive manuveurs, no hard braking before coming upon traffic, etc. But I denounce videos that are dangerous, and hold the racers and other "bystanders" in risk.

Maybe I'm just stubborn, but that's how I believe the board should look and judge the videos that should stay or get banned.
 

CAS

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YES..

BTW - Moundir, Viper Alley Dot Com (one word!)
 

GR8_ASP

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The arguments are getting fierce. I can see all the lawyers lining up to have a suit against us for advocating exhaust and emissions deviations. Get a life. The liability issue is not the same. The air bag comment has some validity, but it is doubtful the removal of the airbag is going to harm an innocent bystander.

The level of liability related to street racing is on a whole other level. If you want to take this further why not ask the club to obtain legal advice and then follow it. I pretty much know what the legal advice would be. Do not advocate behaviors that put innocent people at SIGNIFICANT risk.

Missed the word "innocent" just before significant risk. If you put a MOMO wheel on your car how many innocent people are put at significant risk? I would hope none. Now do that and rent out your car. If a renter kills himself, with partial cause being the loss of the airbag, you will now be very liable. Same action different situation.

Now, for another example say person A, who is known to post videos on the VCA board of street racing, kills another person while video taping the next saga. The police and lawyers inquire why he had a camera mounted in the vehicle and eventually find that his sole purpose was to create videos for posting to the VCA website. I am absolutely certain the VCA would be included in any tort case brought forward, if not also included in criminal proceedings. The VCA and all connected would be at substantial risk in this situation. I believe it would lead to the end of the VCA, and of course any connection to the OEM.

Now there are many shades of gray between these examples. The degree of liability would vary as well. But if you were in a leadership position in the VCA, and thus both personally and criminally liable for its actions, would you advocate such a practice or work to thwart it?
 

Gerald

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Please... So I guess if someone gets killed by my Dodge Viper, they can sue Dodge? This is utterly ridiculous.

So basically, if someone gets hurt, see that someone has a camera in the car and posted it on the VCA site, the VCA is responsible. Who's dumb and dumber, the person who actually thinks that or the lawyer representing him.??
 

Seifer

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???

Moved way down here so as not to attract more attention??


You must be registered for see images
 

GR8_ASP

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Please... So I guess if someone gets killed by my Dodge Viper, they can sue Dodge? This is utterly ridiculous.

So basically, if someone gets hurt, see that someone has a camera in the car and posted it on the VCA site, the VCA is responsible. Who's dumb and dumber, the person who actually thinks that or the lawyer representing him.??

No. Not because of it being a Dodge (unless a Dodge created defect caused or facilitated the injury). You clearly missed the point. Maybe my example wasn't clear enough. The posting of a video provides intent (note this is a prior posting of an earlier street race). That is evidence that the person intended to do a criminal act (street racing). A camera in the car would be additional circumstantial evidence leading to the conclusion of assumed risk. And if said act (street racing) resulted in injury or death, then the courts assume the intent to do bodily harm, or unreasonable risk thereof. By participating in a forum where this in condoned, all parties involved have assumed a tort risk. That would include DC if they have have a role in the web site. It could also include DC if they are an advocate of the VCA and the VCA is a participant in the activity.

We have a litigous society here in the US. Major organizations and corporations must take extreme measures to protect themselves from the tort risk. Even when it seems stupid to the majority.
 

slaughterj

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I think we are all missing "the point"...Street racing is only illegal if you get caught!






slaughterj will back me up on this, and he is a patent attorney!!!

LOL! Actually I've patented street racing, so all of you guys owe me big $$$$, payment by paypal is accepted :cool:
 

slaughterj

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1) no one is going to get killed using clear marker lights

Why just the other day, a whole schoolbus of orphan kids was killed by clear marker lights... :D
 

ElDiablo Viper

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Well...in a few months we'll not be able to lease most of the cars in NY because the law allows people sue the bank as responsible for the accident ***?
 

NCVCA

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NO for reasons expounded upon in boring detail in the other thread, but just to give Gerald credit I'm not hiding and respect everyone else's opionion. Just don't agree with it.

There probably are some people who don't want to post a no on this thread just because who wants to be the first to say no when the thread topic is biased to begin with?

What the heck. I'll be the first and let you guys have first blood.

Just remember the 'no's' are only no's for one of probably only 3 reasons.

1. don't want the club to get screwed in a lawsuit
2. don't want a member to get hurt/killed (sounds lame but wait until it happens)
3. don't want a bystander to get hurt/killed

2 & 3 can be cast as wimpy fears, but if it happens all of a sudden opinion changes.

Hey, I respect you for making your stand. Being willing to stand up for what you beleive in within a club that is reletively small where you will certainly be recognized at meetings and events takes some cohonese. (thats supposed to be balls in Spanish but I didn't take Spanish so I don't know how to spell it)

Be safe--
 

GR8_ASP

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You can't be first. I have posted similar argunments here and elsewhere. With excessive repetition I might add.

I agree with all 3 counts above. Note number 2 wouldn't be a first, unfortunately. I prefer not to add to the list, especially with the dogma that a street racing incident involving a Viper would bring down on all of us.

And yes it does take cajones. Having lived in Brazil for a few years does add to my vocabulary.
 
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