Was asked...Why put a 5 lbs Roe Blower on your Viper

[Steve 00RT/10]

1) Does anyone have before and after dyno results of a 5lb pulley?

Well.......yes and no. I have a pre SC result on our 2000 car and a post SC result on our 2001 car. Both have 5 pounders.
2000 car: Belanger Headers/3" pipe: 438 HP/480 TQ

Below is the dyno sheet on the 'new' 2001 car. This car was tuned on a dyno in 2003 prior to logging being available. I upgraded the VEC2 late this summer and my suspicions were correct. VERY RICH at WOT. I will finish tuning in the spring. In other words, there's more to get out of this one, although it will likely never see a dyno again to measure it. Getting the AFR right is good enough for me. As an added note, the 2000 car seems to pull a fair amount harder than the 2001 car. AFR in the 2000 is pretty much right at 11.5. I'm still in the high 10s with the 2001 car. It was in the mid 9s to low 10s when I first logged in late September.

How many lbs can you get up to w/o getting involved w/ **** & water?

5 pounds -- cast piston
6.5 pounds-- forged piston

How difficult is the install? How difficult for a noivce?

You can do it. Some mechanical ability and common sense is all that's needed. I am no mechanic, but put it on last spring and tuned it. It's a good experience and you get to learn your car a lot better. You even get a chance to spend a few hours cleaning parts of your car not normally exposed. It's a bonding experience

Steve

 

[DAMN YANKEE]

Pariaianviper - First and foremost, so glad you have a good sense of humor. I was pressing it on the culminator one....

Yes, VEC3 comes packaged with the blower. The units are now black in color, VEC2 units were silver.

iwbond - Answer to question #2 (#1 and #3 well answered above) at 5 lbs and ONLY at 5 lbs, the water/ **** kit is not required.

I am way more anal than that, so I pressed the question...If you live in Texas and drive at 100+ for hours in the desert heat you will still want the water/**** (WM) kit. If you want to have WM, it will be even better for your car. If you like more "stuff" (not problematic if you check your wm levels, fittings and electrical contacts) it will be better for your car. BUT, at 5 lbs thee is NO problem running without WM.

When you buy your blower Sean simply wont sell you the kit without you buying everything you need to keep your engine healty. Sean required me to send him a letter (email) confirming that I needed a high flo cat and did not buy them with the blower unit. That is Sean's way of both letting me know he is serious, as in "Dan, you are going to melt you side sills if you get on the 5 lbs blower and stay on them" and CYA for himself. Sean doesn't know Starbucks is only 10 minutes from my house. How hot can my sidesills get while I sit ion a lawn chair for hours staring at my Viper?

That leaves the BIG Questions for me:

1. How easily can I tune the 5 lbs rig? Stay tuned.

2. See my other thread "TAMING THE HIGH FLO CATS - HOLY GRAIL FOR EARS"
I am being quite serious, High Flo cats and 3" cat backs are best, but can it be accomplished and still have a reasonably quiet interior? Mr. Hemi Head may have nailed that one inhis answers. Stay tuned.

 

[Steve 00RT/10]

Yes, VEC3 comes packaged with the blower. The units are now black in color, VEC2 units were silver.

Do you know if this incorporates the Intake Temperature upgrade he has been working on?

at 5 lbs and ONLY at 5 lbs, the water/ **** kit is not required

I could stand corrected here if that's right from Sean. Last spring there were a couple forged piston cars without it that I had contact with -- I don't remember now who they were. Maybe they should have had it.


Dan,

Did you put the cooler T-stat in?

How easily can I tune the 5 lbs rig? Stay tuned.

You can do it. Sean is the best to get you going. You can easily e-mail log files to him to look at. My stock cards were rich--as they should be for starters. There's also lots of help available on line from those who have done it.........and the Wizard is practically right door you said. Sounds like the perfect combination to get the job done. You'll be happy you did it.

Steve

 

[DAMN YANKEE]

Steve-

1. Yes, Good news, the intake temp upgrade IS included in the new VEC3.

2. Yes, I should hve mentioned that when the old intake came off, we put in the cooler thermostat.

3. On the question of "does a 5 lbs kit need water/****", I would break it out as follows:

- Sean let me buy the unit without a disclaimer on WM kit.
- Tator was clear with me, it is not needed at the 5 lbs boost level.

 

[KMODStang]

My priorities were:
- It would be a great father/son project before he leaves the house

I think its awesome that was a huge piece of your motivation, and its clear your son enjoyed himself. I am only 22, and I wish that I cold have taken on a project like this with my dad, but he doesnt know the difference from a piston and a rod and looks at cars as simply a device that gets you from point a to point b (though i can't complain because we are starting a business together ACTual Solutions for those of you that care haha).

My real question is, does your son get to drive it? If so, IM JEALOUS!!!! Seriously though, Im glad to see you guys enjoyed the experience and its great to see families work together!!!

 

[jwbond]

great info on these posts...couple questions though.


1) Does anyone have before and after dyno results of a 5 lb pulley?

With headers and exhaust I went from 459rwhp to 601rwhp. When I went to the 8#, the hp didn't change much but the tq went up by 50!

You were at 459rwhp w/ just headers and exhaust?!?

I have a 96 gts w/ headers, intake, and exhaust and am considering getting retuned for the mods. Sounds like it could be worth it if what you say is accurate!

 

[DAMN YANKEE]

Kmodstang, he drives it, he drives it harder than I do. Its all part of the package. If the kid doesn't learn how, no telling what trouble he will get in.

 

[KMODStang]

Kmodstang, he drives it, he drives it harder than I do. Its all part of the package. If the kid doesn't learn how, no telling what trouble he will get in.

Lucky kid, i think you need to have a sit down with my dad...he needs a pep-talk haha

 

[DAMN YANKEE]

Finished mechanicals

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Simple RED

 

[DAMN YANKEE]

Add my 17 year old son to the list of people that have successfully installed a 5 lbs BEC3 Roe Supercharger system. Finished it off tonight....I'll finish writing up the tricks and traps thread sometime over the Xmas holiday.

With that...

1. Doable, definately. Quality, absolutely.
2. Results are very rewareding.
3. Sean Roe and Dave at Roe Racing were always (as in every call) there.
4. Chuck Tator supports his Clients just as well.

 

[DAMN YANKEE]

Tired sorry...
VEC3
rewarding

 

[RoadiJeff]

I was wondering for a minute there was a BEC3 was. The post edit button works also.

Anyway, I have questions later about the noise level. I've read that ceramic high flow cats are more quiet than metal but what brand to get.

Also, why a 5 lb boost instead of 8 or even 10 lbs? I think you can still use pump gas with 8 lbs but not sure if there's some other factors involved.

I'm planning on doing the install myself and taking it to a popular tuner on these forums who happens to be not far from me and have him do the final tweaking. Is that pretty much what you did?

 

[DAMN YANKEE]

RoadiJeff,


The ceramic cats are produced with smaller combing than the metal cats. The sound level difference is partially made up of the "blurring" of the exhaust notes through the smaller combs. It is not yet clear as to whether the cermaic cats are actually quieter, or rather blended more than the metal cats. IMO, one way to approach this issue is to clearly fall on one side or the other on the loudness issue. If you are looking for lots of sound and fury than Corsa is not your best choice. I am committed to as quiet a high flo system as I can get, that probably puts me squarely in the Corsa camp. Having said that, the lead tech at Corsa stated that his belief is that the ceramics are quieter. It would also be accurate to state that there is a general belief that the steel cats hold up better than the ceramic cats. But, this same gentleman is of the mind that he sees enough of them to state that that is not the case for most of the applications he sees. In other words big lbs blowers with ceramic cats hold up just fine. He mentioned Random as a good brand.

In my discussions with Sean Roe today, he suggested that using a 2 1/2" high flo ceramic cat and using your STOCK exhaust will provide good flo through the cat, less heat in the sill and reasonable sound levels. He admits that the resonance issues of the GTS are not attended to and the 3" cat backs would of course breath easier. However, all in all, that is a good way to go.

5 lbs boost....that was covered in this thread already. BIG reasons for not going above 5 lbs with the weaker pistons to begin with. Also, no water/**** required, much simpler tuning. Anything over 6.5 lbs requires a higher level of dedication to getting the tuning right and maintaining your cooling systems. As for me, keeping it straightforward, simple and maintainable was key to the enjoyment factor. All done, no engine lights, sounds great, looks great, runs great and done by yourself, goes a long way in my book of fun, productive projects.

As the GENIIs get older and are the subject of less focus for newly designed products (a trend that appears to be taking place) I strongly recommend that one take a good hard look at these blower systems as they are strong, well made, high performance add-ons that are still receiving the full attention of their designers. Climbing in and listening to that blower warm up is a great sensation. ITs as good as my 1932 Riley-4-Port warming up. With the right hand holding the wheel and shifting between your knees and the left hand pumping gas and holding the brake lever, well...thats a car.

In 2020, people will look back at these blown rigs as the golden age ride of the roaring 90's and the millenium.

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[DAMN YANKEE]

I just realize most people won;t know what a Riley-4-Port is...

The first of the overhead valve engines, this one was made by George Riley for Henry Ford. This rig...this Ford Model B....this four cylinder rig..is a 206 c.i.d, with 150 hp at 5000 rpms, Gentleman that is 100 miles an hour with rear brakes only...

Here is that same 17 year old that did the Roe kit as a younger kid...

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When she kicks up, that will send all the geese to the center of the pond