Water/**** got stuck on- Car won't Start

[SYNFULL]

Took her out for a wash yesterday as it was in the 40's and when I tried to start her up to bring her in it just cranked. Then I realized I didn't hear the fuel pump come on. But I did hear something else whirring in the back. As I sat there listening and wondering what the pumping noise was I realized the water **** pump light was on, and the was what was pumping away. I immediately turned the key off. I don't know why this happened but when I turned the key on again the fuel pump came on as it usually does and the water **** pump came on for a second like it usually does.

I tried to start the car now and it would half start a few times and the quit. One time I got it ti stay on for a few seconds by giving it a little gas but all kinds of smoke was coming out the exhaust. After a few more tries the battery died. I put a a charger on and waited a few hours thinking it was flooded out with the warer/****. Again tried to start but car only cranks. Disconnected pcm overnight to see if that had to be reset. This morning reconnected and car cranks but no attempt to fire.

I pulled 2 plugs and they are totally fouled. My questions are-
Can plugs be cleaned with electric cleaner etc, or should I really purchase new plugs?
They are Bosch FR8DC which I think I may have to order. Pep Boy has a cross referance for some ac delco but they are not platinum and I really don't think I should substitute.

I'm hoping it's only the plugs and I didn't damage something.

Thanks for any help

 

[CSXT802]

Disable the fuel pump(pull fuse and or relay). Remove all spark plugs and crank it over to clear the cylinders. be sure to check your oil as it may have become washed from the water/**** and fuel.
You may need a fresh set of plugs.

 

[plumcrazy]

if there is water in those cylinders, id talk to one of the trusted tuners and find out what to do. i would think washing down cylinders aint good.

im sure you can clean plugs but they are cheap enough to replace and depending on how long ago, its probably a good idea anyways. do you homework on platinum plugs, i recall them not being a good idea, especially for boosted cars

at least change oil. might need to put some oil down the spark plug holes to make sure it doesnt wash them clean. but again, check with someone who knows.

 

[plumcrazy]

some good spark plug info in this thread. its about a paxton but i dont think the plug knows the difference

http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-gts-discussions/634676-spark-plug-help-built-engine-paxton.html

 

[SYNFULL]

Thanks everyone- good advice. I appreciate it.
Can anyone recommend plugs for a Roe setup- 8lb.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

Some good advice so far.
Like CSXT said, pull all the plugs (you are going to want to try new ones anyway) and crank it over to make sure there is no puddling of w/m in the cylinders.
Disconnect / turn off the w/m system for now.
Depending on how much washed down, you may have to change your oil. Methanol and water are not good for oil and lubrication. Pull the dipstick and smell for alcohol and look for water drops in the oil. You will also see that it will be over full if there is extra fluid in the pan. If you are even a little suspect of excess w/m in the oil, change it.
Just get some cheap plugs for now. It won't matter to get it started and that will eliminate one variable (fouled plugs). You are just trying to get it started and check for other issues that may have occurred.
Adding a tsp of oil in each cylinder will help replace compression from wash down and help seal the rings.
Once you get it started, listen for any unusual noises or roughness at idle. Then start adding the other variables back into the mix. Check over your w/m system to see why it stuck.

good luck

 

[Camfab]

Water/**** will eventually ensure you need a new engine. Hopefully you didn't hydraulic the engine. As mentioned pull all the plugs and dry out the cylinders, get new plugs, change the oil and pray you didn't ruin your engine. Oh and most importantly junk that water/**** system. It's a band aid for an improperly designed system. Just like nitrous, it's a great fix for some cheap thrills till you break something, and you WILL break something.

 

[BOTTLEFED]

I don't agree with cam at all. W/M is a great way to cool the Roe (and the only way currently).
Also, these motors are tough. I would bet you didn't hurt it. Hydrolock would mean the engine will seize up as you turn in over. You'll know when you try to start it.
No praying necessary

 

[CSXT802]

There is nothing wrong with ****/water when used correctly. I used it on my csx-t to run big boost on pump gas. I'm not talking 10 - 15 psi. I'm talking 25 - 30 psi pump gas , ****/water. I put 30,000 + miles on the motor with out issue. The car made 366 WHP , 365 ft lbs of torque at 28 psi. not bad for a 135 ci 4 cylinder with 8 valves.

 

[Camfab]

Everyone has an opinion and I'll stand by mine. Water/**** is a way to band aid an improperly designed sysytem. The Roe is an example of that when you take it beyond it's very limited design spec. Don't get me wrong, I love blowers and turbo's etc., but when you take them out of their design spec. you need things like water/**** to help cover the fact that youv'e pushed the unit out of it's envelope. Read........when it fails, so goes your motor.

Let me take this a step further, In my savings account depleted, learned the hard way, built way too many motors listening to guru's and advertising driven magazines, life. I will never ever run Water/**** on a street car that I expect to drive with any reliabillity and not worry about checking every aspect of the car with each drive.

Incidentally you can still bend a rod and potentially get the car started.

 

[CSXT802]

I have to agree that race gas and the tune go with it is the safe thing to do. I know at the boost levels I was running, any malfunction of the fuel system or the ****/water could be expensive. My eyes were always on the wide band and boost gauge.

 

[SYNFULL]

Followed everything you guys said. I went and bought new plugs- NGK as they didn't have the champions and put them in after putting some oil in the plug holes.
Car still didn't start after a few tries and battery is dead. I have it on a charger now. The w/m is staying on when the key is in the on position. I am thinking it is the vec so I am going to reflash with my tune. Will let you know what happens.

Thanks!!

 

[plumcrazy]

did you drop the il ? what did it look like ?

I seem to remember reading a vec doing that before. did you search or reach out for sean roe ? im sure he's never heard of it before but its worth a shot

 

[GTSnake]

How are you controlling your W/M? Even if the pump is on it shouldn't pump any w/m into the tubes if your controller is not allowing it to.

 

[SYNFULL]

The car still will not start. I am thinking it may be the vec. I tried reading it with my laptop and cannot connect. Also the w/m is staying on which also leads me to believe it is the vec. Would the vec being toasted prevent the car from starting? I hope I don't need to buy a new one!
Thanks

 

[fqberful]

The car still will not start. I am thinking it may be the vec. I tried reading it with my laptop and cannot connect. Also the w/m is staying on which also leads me to believe it is the vec. Would the vec being toasted prevent the car from starting? I hope I don't need to buy a new one!
Thanks

The VEC is yet another bandaid. It sits between the car and the PCM .. If the VEC fails, the PCM doesn't get the proper signals and NO START.

Good luck.
--FQB

 

[99 R/T 10]

It could be. Did you by chance remove any of the injector leads while trying to start the car? It's know that dis-connecting the injector connectors while trying to operate teh car will burn out the Vec. Check your ***.

 

[plumcrazy]

call chuck tator, im pretty sure he posted about this once. and he can certainly help you regardless. he installed and worked on enough roe cars.

914-763-3136

 

[BOTTLEFED]

The car will not start if the VEC is burnt out (I just dealt with this).
You can try to take the VEC out of the loop by putting the injector harness back to stock (connect the harness back into itself without the VEC inline) and taking the VEC out of the CAS wiring. This will allow you to start the car just on the PCM. It will run rich if you have the upgraded injectors, but it will start.

Mike is right, the VEC is very finicky about the injector wiring. If anything is loose, it can burn out the drivers in the VEC.

 

[SYNFULL]

Car definitley has spark & fuel. I'm still thinking it's the vec cause the water/**** light pump comes on and stays on with the key in the on position and can't read the vec with my laptop. Car cranked and half started for a few seconds but I couldn't keep it alive. I disconnected the pcm overnight and will try again tonight. The battery did die on me and the doors got locked. I remember having trouble starting before when this happened and had to reset the pcm to get it too start.

Waiting for new plugs to come also.

If that doesn't work I will call the Wizard and or Sean. Also a member here offered to let me try his Vec which I may give a go at.

Question- can the vec be unplugged and bypassed to see if it starts? I read somewhere you can bypass the vec but not sure which plugs to unplug. Will look and the vec instructions tonight.

Thanks!

 

[99 R/T 10]

The car will not start if the VEC is burnt out (I just dealt with this).
You can try to take the VEC out of the loop by putting the injector harness back to stock (connect the harness back into itself without the VEC inline) and taking the VEC out of the CAS wiring. This will allow you to start the car just on the PCM. It will run rich if you have the upgraded injectors, but it will start.

Mike is right, the VEC is very finicky about the injector wiring. If anything is loose, it can burn out the drivers in the VEC.

See the above quote to by-pass the VEC,

 

[SYNFULL]

I disconnected the vec (connect the harness back into itself without the VEC inline) and after a very loud backfire the car started!
The water/**** light still stayed on so I don't know if that is a symptom of the vec being unplugged or another problem.
I guess I will be shopping for a vec 3. Can I use a srt programmer to replace the vec, or do I still need it for the water/****. I guess if I want to log, the srt is going to cost me a lot more with the programming.

Thanks All

 

[99 R/T 10]

The VECs are all the same, the wiring harnesses are different for each Generations.

 

[SYNFULL]

Called Sean about the vec today and he had me take it apart and clean it with electrical cleaner. He said often times moisture and or dirt get in there and cause bridges between the circuits. Used a soft brush and gently cleaned all the contacts. Put everything back together and guess what - car doesn't start BUT can read the vec and write to it! Water/**** seems to be working normally also.

Got the right spark plugs in the mail today so tomorrow I will put them in as I am sure the replacement plugs in there are all fouled, and maybe a new battery since this one has been through hell.

Thanks for the help - will let you know what happens.

 

[EllowViper]

What plugs are you running...just curious.

 

[SYNFULL]

It's ALIVE!! Put my new plugs in and she fired right up! Thanks to all that helped!
Plugs I am using are Bosch Super Plus FR8DC.

On another note does anyone know where I can get the push pull instant fittings used with the 1/4"
water/**** lines.

 

[Black Moon]

It's ALIVE!! Put my new plugs in and she fired right up! Thanks to all that helped!
Plugs I am using are Bosch Super Plus FR8DC.

On another note does anyone know where I can get the push pull instant fittings used with the 1/4"
water/**** lines.

Do you have a 'Fastenal' near you. They have them but not sure if they'll have your size. Good luck. Glad it's alive.

 

[SYNFULL]

Just found one close by. I will check there tomorrow.
Thanks!

 

[EllowViper]

So the VEC and everything is now working? Amazing. Maybe I need to take mine apart for a good cleaning.

 

[SYNFULL]

Crazy isn't it. I thought it was fried for sure. I'm thinking of making some type of enclosure as I have seen others do.