What a day at the track . . .

[Vic]

Hey Dan, Do you know if the NCRC has driving instructors that are Viper savvy?

Yes, there are several of us NCRC instructors/members that can get you around the track in a Viper just fine. If memory serves me I think we are low-mid 1:50's at T-Hill on the Toyo RA-1's

1:50s? Pfft! I do that all the time.























In my dreams........






.

 

[luc]

Brian:

As Redsled mentioned, we have a few instructors that own/race/open track Vipers.
I myself own a Viper (00GTS) and we always have a few Vipers at our events.

To answer "Driving School" Kinder :

Running an open-track/ race event is not cheap, anywhere between $16K to $24K for a weekend ( you can get more info on cost on our website NCRC.ORG )and consequently it is not surprising that very few clubs run their own event and the NCVCA is no different, Either they just get some members together and go,as regular paying customers, to another Club (as in Green Flag) or they make a deal with VD and "rent" a Friday/slot time at a VD event.
There is nothing wrong with that but they do not manage ( meaning renting the track, hiring the corner workers,etc) their own track day

As an open-track/ race organizer, you should not expect to be in the black at each event you run, some make money, some break even and on some you loose money (sometime a lot)so, the decision to run or cancel an event is not based only on the estimated financial picture for this specific event but rather on the financial impact that this event will have on your bottom line at the end of year and, more importantly, on what is the goal you're trying to achieve with your Club.

If you run a Club only as a for-profit business,making a living out of it, with maximum income as your only goal, obviously, you will try not to do any loosing event, but, if your main goal is to have fun and offer a service to other drivers that suffer the same addiction than you, as long that you break even or make a little money at the end of ther year, you don't worry about making money on evey single events nor do you expect to make a living out of it.

That do not mean that one formula is "better" than the other one, just that you have more than one way to run a club, and from a driver point of view, the more clubs, the better.

Luc. 00GTS

PS: Brian, I will be more than happy to "comp" you a track day, just contact me off line

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

luc,

Very good info for running a track day.

Tracks do provide corner workers, wreckers, emergency equipment each at extra cost or you can rent the track and provide your own track support.

Viper Days:

Provides great track support in addition to outstanding pit support. John Archer company provides amazing services from complete fluid changes to brake pads to brake kit upgrades, etc. Also available safety equipment, tires, wheels. It is like having your own pit crew. Ted May and Al from Valaya Racing also support local drivers as needed.

Go off track and blow a tire or few tires and the track pit support becomes golden.

Great people run the event and great attend the event. It is like a family reunion.

Over the last 10 years the cost for renting a track like Thunderhill has increased 3 - 8x depending on the day(mid week or weekend).

 

[Cal Cobra]

The Northern California VCA has a wide variety of activities. For performance driving we have yearly VCA driving schools via Skip Barber. The BAMF track day as well as Viper Days. I think there was also a Green Flag/VCA event at Laguna Seca. There are may other members like Dan, Robert, Rocky, Kurt, Bret, just to name a few who do open track events(Checkered Flag, NASA, Corp. track events) and or race with the SCCA or NASA. There are a couple VCA track guys from Brentwood, Bill and Rob.

Events are driven by member interest not by the interest of a few. If you want more track events suggest you get involved and organize one rather than make empty comments. Club events are organized and managed by club members so get to work or stop complaining about one of the best clubs in the World.

Viper Days at Thunderhill was dropped because of cost vs income. This track was always the first event scheduled and typically we (VCA) had little notice to help promote it. The attendance was a market issue in my opinion. I do feel we should lobby for the return of Viper Days to Thunderhill.

Brian since you sound like an avid track guy? Where were you when Viper Days was at Button Willow? That event combined with the BAMF event was an opportunity for three track days, along with the best track side support of any open track event in the US.

Hi Fred,

My comment was an observation (and one shared by more then myself I can assure you), but not a condemnation of the club, no need to take it personally.

I'm just starting on the track program, as Thunderhill last week was my first time out. When I received the yearly norcal VCA schedule in January (maybe it was in December even) they showed Viper Days at Button Willow (Southern California) with the BAMF program at the same location, and same weekend. As I recall it poured rain that weekend. Between the distance and the rain that was out for me. I don't recall seeing the Skip Barber program in the local newsletter in January, maybe it was added later (or I missed it), but that's a somewhat different beast. A good venue for sure, but not really a track day IMO.

When I made an inquiry with the Viper Days group as to local Viper Day venues, they only indicated Button Willow (and said no more Thunderhill). I wish I'd know about the Reno program at the time, as that's a lot closer to me then Button Willow, and I would've planned to go (I'll be in NYC that weekend now). These other events are the first I've heard of this or last year.

Cal

 

[ruckdr]

Brian,
Your first track day at Thunderhill, and you mentioned Reno, are these tracks somewhat close to you??
Go online to these track sites and look at their schedules, and see what car clubs are hosting track days at these tracks; Porsche, BMW, ALFA, Corvette, and other Sports car clubs. Contact the clubs and you should be able to get in LOTS of track time.
For example, I went/going on:
Sept 1 Bremerton Sports Car Club - Bremerton Raceway
Sept 7 Speedware Inc. - Pacific Raceway
Sept 14 ALFA Car Club - Pacific Raceway.

There are so many car clubs (mentioned above and others) that have track days here, that you CAN spend much time at the track.

Later,

 

[Cal Cobra]

Redsled, Thanks for the NCRC info. Low-mid 1:50's at T-Hil is definitely quick. They didn't time us in our program, so I'm not sure what I was running, but I know it was no where near that!

luc that's a good synopsis of the track program operations, I can certainly see why clubs don't run many of their own open track days. I'll definitely touch basis with you on more info on the NCRC program.

Again I wasn't bagging on the NorCal VCA, it's a good club, I was just expecting a slightly different program. As an newbie/outsider to the club, I know they already have their click and the club interests are definitely majority rules (not that there's anything wrong with car shows and BBQ's, I love 'em too, but I also love driving my car).

Cal

 

[Fast Viper Dan]

Redsled, Thanks for the NCRC info. Low-mid 1:50's at T-Hil is definitely quick. They didn't time us in our program, so I'm not sure what I was running, but I know it was no where near that!

luc that's a good synopsis of the track program operations, I can certainly see why clubs don't run many of their own open track days. I'll definitely touch basis with you on more info on the NCRC program.

Again I wasn't bagging on the NorCal VCA, it's a good club, I was just expecting a slightly different program. As an newbie/outsider to the club, I know they already have their click and the club interests are definitely majority rules (not that there's anything wrong with car shows and BBQ's, I love 'em too, but I also love driving my car).

Cal

Red Sled is one of the exceptions. His car is full race prep. And he is fearless (or crazy )! You would expect to start in the 2:25's and with several events be in the 2:15 range. This is based on a stock street car. Vic ran 2:15 while I was in his car with him and believe me your on the edge at that speed. There are a few others that have dropped into the 2:05 range but again that is a real exception.
As for the NorCal VCA, yea they like BBQ's but that's what the majority likes to do. If you want to get out to the track once a month, do as RUCKDR suggested look up on the track Webb site and see who is renting the track on the day you wish to attend and contact them.
Be sure to contact Luc and take him up on his offer. I will personally instruct you for the day!! It would be to your best interest to have an instructor early on to get you going in the right direction. Bad habits come easy but they are hard to break.
Oh, we have BBQ's too, at the track!


Dan (Fast Viper Dan)

 

[luc]

"Tracks do provide corner workers"

Yes and no, some like Infineon/Sears not only provide the workers but mandate the use of their own workers, Thunderhill provide workers if you request it, Reno/Fernley and BW do not.

In California,there is a very professional Flag workers organization, called USARM that you can contract to provide workers to your events.

Also, a little known "secret" is that very,very few Clubs carry their own insurance, main reason is once against cost, beside the "regular" per day insurance fee, there is a over $10K yearly premium and the only way to amortize it is to run a bunch of events since this premium is a flat fee.

Clubs usually "buy" the insurance from the track, and the traks are insured most of the time by the same insurer that we use (K & K)

As a rule of thumb, you need between 40 to 50 PAYING customers to break even and only then can you breath easier and don't worry about paying the bills (that BTW for the most part are payable, not net 30 but right at the track b4 you leave)

There are a bunch of good clubs in califonia, Speedventure, OTR, GFDA, Shelby, TCRA, NCRC/ARC, AROSC, etc and I can tell you from knowing all those peoples very well, first as a customer and since a few years as a club ownwer, that none of them make a living out of it or have quited their day job.

THey all are open-trackers/racers junkies that want to share their passion/hobby with other drivers
Just remember that next time that you're at an event and not 100% satisfied with something, being the line at registration or too many/not enough cars on the track or whatever.

Luc.

 

[REDSLED]

Here's a site that lists many of the track events in California

http://www.racerguys.com/

 

[Randy]

Again I wasn't bagging on the NorCal VCA, it's a good club, I was just expecting a slightly different program. As an newbie/outsider to the club, I know they already have their click and the club interests are definitely majority rules (not that there's anything wrong with car shows and BBQ's, I love 'em too, but I also love driving my car)

We (NorCal VCA) actually have done more driving events than either car shows or BBQ's, so your comment is actually inaccurate. As far as renting the track, the BAMF event we do every year is a complete track rental, and we are very familiar with this end of it also. However, with about nine local clubs whose sole purpose is to provide track time, that each rent any of the four world-class racetracks (Laguna Seca, Sears Point, Button Willow and Thunderhill), and as someone else noted, it really makes no sense for us to go to the expense and risk of renting the track. Most of our members just got with NASA, Green Flag, Checkered Flag (by invitation only), etc, and they could track their cars at least twice a month. I was doing three or four track events a year (not that much, I know) until financial issues have halted that for now; i.e. my tire budget ran out. As far as non-track driving events, we've done a Tahoe Tour (which was a lot of driving, as well as eating and other events), Lap around the Bay, and a few others. Sure, some of them do end up driving for food, but most fun events seem to do this anyway.

Brian, I do note that that your VCA membership has expired or you have transferred out of the NorCal region (you are not currently on our rolls as a renewed member as of this year). You would receive all of this information in the newsletter if you would maintain your membership, and all of these events are discussed and promoted at our monthly meetings. I believe most of this is also on the NorCal web site, which is getting updated in a more timely manner as of late.

 

[Randy]

When I received the yearly norcal VCA schedule in January (maybe it was in December even) they showed Viper Days at Button Willow (Southern California) with the BAMF program at the same location, and same weekend. As I recall it poured rain that weekend.

That would be incorrect. The BAMF event was a perfect weekend for the track, and it was not (nor is ever) shared with another group.

In any event, the schedule in January is extremely preliminary, and often changes significantly as the year progresses.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Hi Fred,

My comment was an observation (and one shared by more then myself I can assure you), but not a condemnation of the club, no need to take it personally.

I'm just starting on the track program, as Thunderhill last week was my first time out. When I received the yearly norcal VCA schedule in January (maybe it was in December even) they showed Viper Days at Button Willow (Southern California) with the BAMF program at the same location, and same weekend. As I recall it poured rain that weekend. Between the distance and the rain that was out for me. I don't recall seeing the Skip Barber program in the local newsletter in January, maybe it was added later (or I missed it), but that's a somewhat different beast. A good venue for sure, but not really a track day IMO.

When I made an inquiry with the Viper Days group as to local Viper Day venues, they only indicated Button Willow (and said no more Thunderhill). I wish I'd know about the Reno program at the time, as that's a lot closer to me then Button Willow, and I would've planned to go (I'll be in NYC that weekend now). These other events are the first I've heard of this or last year.

Cal



[/QUOTE]

Brian,

There was nothing to take personal. Just like to keep the facts straight. Someone new to Viper ownership could read your post and take your post as coming from an informed VCA member. That would not be fair to them or the VCA. Comments about Club events for which one has no or little knowledge has ZERO value.

FYI, Buttonwillow was a great three(BAMF/Viper Days) day event. It rained a little late in the evening and early morning. The track was dry.

Renew your membership, attend our monthly meetings and get all the track information you want. There are plenty of track guys at the meetings who can answer questions and/or perhaps help offer on track in car instruction. We have worked, as the Viper Club, with Green Flag, and arranged(an option) for Skip Barber instructors to provide in car instruction. I am sure many clubs would love to have a group of Vipers play with them. Simply a matter of interest, time and money.

Regarding BAMF events - they are completely managed by BAMF.

 

[Cal Cobra]

Fred and Randy,

Geesh, a harmless comment garnered so much attention You both have fair comments, I stand corrected.

I joined the VCA last year in about June/July...and was itching for driving events as a new Viper owner. I went to the VCA SJGP event in July (my first VCA event) that Mike put together for the club, and it was a lot of fun. As I recall there were no driving events (definitely no track events) from that point forward last year. So from my perspective, I only saw BBQ's, car shows, etc., but no driving events, so my comment was valid from my perspective.

When I got the 2006 schedule that was sent out (I believe in December 05) it only showed the Viper Days and BAMF track day on the same weekend/same place, and I believe the Skip Barber school was tentative at that time.

In January of this year I broke my leg, and wasn't able to drive for three months or so. Definitely wanted to go to the Viper Days, but between the distance, weather forecast, and recent injury it wasn't in the cards. It did pour rain in NorCal during the end of week/weekend the BAMF track day and Viper Days were held in Button Willow.

At any rate I'm sure I'll reup my VCA membership, as apparently my timing wasn't in sync with the driving events last year, and there's definitely some great folks in the NorCal VCA. I do hope they'll be able to bring Viper Days back to Thunder Hill in the future.

OK, back to track talk!!

Thanks,
Cal

 

[Cal Cobra]

When I received the yearly norcal VCA schedule in January (maybe it was in December even) they showed Viper Days at Button Willow (Southern California) with the BAMF program at the same location, and same weekend. As I recall it poured rain that weekend.

That would be incorrect. The BAMF event was a perfect weekend for the track, and it was not (nor is ever) shared with another group.

In any event, the schedule in January is extremely preliminary, and often changes significantly as the year progresses.

Hi Randy,

I understand BAMF and Viper Days are separate events. I just dug out my newsletter I received in December, and maybe the dates changed, but the schedule indicated they were in fact both at Button Willow, with the BAMF event (Mar31) the day prior to Viper Days (Apr 1&2). I do also see the Green Flag event at Laguna Seca (Mar 25 - 26), and the flyer for the Skip Barber school (Mar 23, again a great venue, but not a track day).

It appears that all of the NorCal VCA sponsored driving (track) events took place within an eleven day time span. Hmm, a lot of fun in a short period of time for sure, but I wonder why they weren't spread out more?

That definitely added to my perception of minimal driving (track) events.

Cal

 

[GR8_ASP]

Complain, complain complain. Come to Michigan if you want to experience a lack of driving events (none this year).

 

[Cal Cobra]

Hey GR8 ASP...it's not a complaint (although it was obviously taken that way). It was purely an observation.

Thanks to other posters on this thread, a whole bunch of track opportunities just opened up

Cal

 

[GR8_ASP]

If you read between the lines I was providing a comparison point with a little complaining from my side. Michigan - One of the highest Viper owner states and yet no Viper club motorsports events. Some of us joined with a Ford Taurus group earlier this year to get a momentary fix though.

 

[Cal Cobra]

Hey GR8 ASP,

I got your comment. No track days whatsoever is criminal in a place like Michigan! I mean that's practically the birthplace of the American sports car!!

I guess I'm a bit surprised at the defensiveness from a comment that wasn't a big deal, or ill-intended.

Oh well, time to fire up this Ancient Warrior.

Cal

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Brian,

Hope you have recovered completely from your broken leg.

Driving a Viper on a race track is the ultimate experience for driving enthusiast. I think that is why VOI's are held in locations with major road courses as well as drag racing venues. At VOI's many owners experience their first time driving on a major race track. In reality a race track is the only place to maximize a Viper's performance.

We are lucky to have Viper Days events across the country. This is an enjoyable open track driving event for beginners to pro's.

We try to have a VCA/Skip Barber driving school before Viper Days comes to our area(Buttonwillow or Thunderhill). The goal is to get drivers ready for Viper Days as well as winter is ending and the snakes are starting to hit the roads. The dates for our VCA driving school are not scheduled until after the first of the year. We have to wait for Skip Barber to get their schedule from the tack management. This year if demand continues we may do two schools. One will be the same Viper Specific program offered for the past 6 or 7 years, and the second an advanced program that will require students to have completed the VCA program or a std Skip Barber two day or three day program.