What can SRT engineers do to improve future Gen Vipers?

[ohlarikd]

As i have stated, and several others, the engineers can make the car the best in the world and it still would not sell because the marketing team is so bad on the new gen v. I still have people ask me if my car is a 2010 because they have no clue that there is a new viper out. I just had a fellow car guy look at me in complete disbelief that there was a 2013 viper. This is the root of the problem all together. There are probably 500 buyers for those vipers sitting around looking for a car right now that would love a new viper, but have no clue they exist. Sadly, they all know about the new stingray though......

I haven't seen any Corvette TV spots, but they do have some huge fold out ads in Motor Trend at least - they are really nice. I haven't seen a single Viper ad in print.

 

[Jack B]

Terrible post - it makes too much sense.

On the other hand, SRT has done a lot of good things to promote the Viper.

You now see Vipers in national SRT TV advertising.

Srt came out with two models, The SRT for those who want as much old school as possible. Great design, with their own hood, interior, suspension etc.
They also offer the upscale GTS with fantastic interior, upgraded stereo, adjustable suspension (from the drivers seat), and lots of upscale options.

They offer some of the best looking and highest performance wheel packages I have ever seen.

They unleashed the Coupe LeMans racing cars, and have campaigned them with pretty good success against some of the worlds best (and best funded) sports cars in world wide venues.

They held up the initial production cars until they got assurances from their suppliers that quality was going to be seriously enforced.

They offered so many colors and options that every car down the line could be a 1 of 1 if the owner so specified.

They revamped the old Conner plant. Scrubbed it clean, repainted and installed improved assembly equipment and techniques.

They upgraded the car from plain old Dodge into the fresh new high performance SRT Group.

They required every dealership to invest in new tools, new training, and a capital investment to enhance their commitment to the brand.

Now I know that this is not enough for some, but few could really say they have not stepped up their Viper support levels.

Of course, not everything has worked out perfectly, and it was obvious that sending poorly prepped cars out to magazine evaluations was not their best execution, but there was tremendous pressure from many sources to just get the cars out there, and into the hands of all the journalists.

For as long as I can remember, Vipers have been portrayed as ill handling, rough riding, loud and obnoxious cars...just the way most of us liked them, however all the successful cars mentioned earlier in this post have also gone up scale, with enhanced suspensions, sound systems, improved full leather interiors. Hard to fault SRT here either (but some will)

I believe that the real reason they are not selling is a matter of two things.
One: Timing. Production volume was non-esistant during the traditional hot Spring selling season. (cars were held back due to quality standards). Now that production is ramping up, it is getting towards Winter with many exotics being placed in their respective garages till Spring.
Two: There is a larger financial jump than ever to go from what a used Viper will bring and the cost that dealerships were demanding for the first cars. Dealers were posting excessive additional dealer markups on their showroom cars, and acting like Primadonna's by keeping them locked up, behind ropes, and denying people the opportunity to sit in them, let alone drive them. They drank their own cool aid, and felt the cars would sell themselves (some did) but also turned off a lot of people by such a snooty attitude.
Many of these same dealers have now gotten a little more humble, and are doing what is necessary to sell the cars.
SRT is also promoting a factory tour, where prospective buyers can see the cars, speak to the executives and technical experts that produce the cars, and get the chance to drive them in earnest.

Now I know that some dealerships were exceptional, but still, lots of damage was done.

The current undermining of the VCA by so many forum detractors has spread to many other website, and this, I am sure, has had to hurt sales.

I am sure SRT will do what is necessary to make the Viper a compelling choice in the ultra performance marketplace. I am sure a convertible and an ACR derivitive will be coming along, as soon as development can be finalized. They will also continue to improve on the world racing scene.

For the past 20 years, Viper has struggled to increase it's sales volume. It has never been easy, as they produce a vehicle that only appeals to a tiny niche in the marketplace, but I have seen them rise to this challenge over and over. Do not be surprised if the do not pull an unexpected rabbit out of their hat.

 

[Fatboy 18]

I'm really pleased there is a new Viper, I've never bought a brand new car, one day I'm sure I will be in reach of a Gen V, but not at the moment. And to be honest you would have a very hard time getting me to part with my Gen 2. (I worked dam hard for that car).

If it was a blank piece of paper, I would like to see a slightly different front end more like the GTSR Extra Driving lights.

One day, One day

Please note: This is not criticism, but just something I would like to see, or maybe a SRT aftermarket option?

 

[ViperSmith]

We know you get all that fog

 

[ACRucrazy]

I know aftermarket has been mentioned more than once.

C7 guys already have headers

http://youtu.be/5rIrPdQu5uU

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Oh yea, and heads

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And tunes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wiuRyauwDxQ

and cams

and exhaust

and

and

 

[cashcorn]

Where's my roadster??

 

[Fatboy 18]

We know you get all that fog

A lot of our car runs are scheduled early mornings here before, the roads get too jammed up, this allows us to stretch the cars legs a bit

This was a recent little crash in the UK

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/tran...-sheppey-crossing-bridge-in-kent-8799228.html

 

[jdg1428]

smack the marketing team for dropping the ball on a well made, hand crafted machine.

YES!! Probably should fire them after you smack them.

 

[PeerBlock]

I know aftermarket has been mentioned more than once.

C7 guys already have headers

Oh yea, and heads

and cams

and exhaust

and

and

That's the benefit of the popular LS engine series. Many of the differences for things like headers, heads and cams are minor or none at all so the existing aftermarket parts can be made to work with tweaks...and sometimes direct carry-overs.

Stuff for the Viper V10 is coming from scratch, and when the after market isn't that big in the first place, what shop wants to make the up-front investment in designing, testing and refining parts. I think that the number of sold Gen 5s is still in the hundreds, and even if 50% of them wanted headers or something that's still a couple hundred potential customers - compared to the tens of thousands of potential customers who own cars with some type of LS engine in it.

 

[ACRsnake]

i think the gen 5 is very close to being perfect but can be improved
-DCT TRANS
-BETTER FIT
-BETTER MARKETING BY SRT
-FRONT LIFT SYSTEM ALA PORSCHE GT3

 

[past ohio]

I made a previous post somewhere about the same issue....-- What I think would help, a little more shoulder room, I felt close to the door, and I'm not the biggest person also I would like to see the coupe with two panels that can be removed to make it an open top and have clips in the rear hatch area to lock in the roof panels....gives us the best of both worlds....may not need the convertible as quickly ??!! My $.02

 

[Magnus_]

ECU's aren't locked, that's just a myth.

Supposedly the C7 PCM's were security encrypted, blah blah, HP Tuners still released product for it.

 

[Nine Ball]

ECU's aren't locked, that's just a myth.

Supposedly the C7 PCM's were security encrypted, blah blah, HP Tuners still released product for it.

Well then, get on with the code cracking

 

[PilotaX]

I think you guys nailed it pretty well with the items you've come up with already.

In case anyone at SRT is tallying what is said here, my preference order would be:

1. No drone stock exhaust
2. Improved ergonomics in the driver's seat/steering wheel/roof area (+ seat memory for when you get it dialed in)
3. Pilot Sport Cups
4. More aggressive aero kit for those who track their cars (along the lines of the Gen 4 ACR)
5. Dual clutch transmission
6. Ceramic brakes

 

[Tiago]

Well then, get on with the code cracking

No ****.

Crazy if people knew the history....

 

[ACRucrazy]

I find this commercial creepy at best...

Maybe this one is more your style?

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[Stealth]

Maybe this one is more your style?

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"Grab Life by the Horns"

 

[theviper]

Hi everyone,

I'm not an owner, so I hope this post isn't taken amiss, but I own two Corvettes, an older coupe and a newer Z06, and have been shopping for a Viper for about four months. I wanted to chime in because I think I'm the kind of person who SRT was trying to attract with this car. I'm cross shopping vs. other exotic brands. So I wanted to throw in my two cents about the future of the SRT viper.

I think the SRT Viper is the greatest looking American car to come out in the last 30 years. It fixed every dated line on the already beautiful GTS, namely the doofy headlights, the pancake-flat hood, the way-too-big rear hatch glass, and the severely dated wheels. It looks amazing. This brings me to my first point strength that the Viper team needs to play up:

1. It follows nobody. Corvette is always biting Porsche's heels. Porsche really wants Ferrari's cachet. The Viper is totally its own thing. No other car in the world is built with this design ethic, this styling, and this setup. I think it runs the only non-flat-plane-crank v10 in any sports car. That makes the car desperately cool. Viper needs to play up this attitude more. It shouldn't ever have resorted to "These seats are from Ferrari's suppler, (look at us, we're luxurious like them!)" The tagline all along should have been, "Come for a ride, you'll forget all about your Ferrari." That brings me to my next point.

2. By playing ****-up to other brands, the Viper lost out on the fact that it was once considered a legitimate rival of the best of them. I still remember the days when the Gen II GTS was considered a legitimate alternative to the Diablo if you wanted to take names between lights and laugh your ass off on back roads afterwards. Mags said it all the time, "Diablo or GTS if you want fun!" By comparing yourself to other brands in a yearning way, you lower yourself below them. By saying "our interior is like a Ferrari now" you draw attention to the fact that you've been below their standards before. By playing up (and raging about) a comparison with Corvette, you go from being unambiguously greater in everyone's eyes to being their rival. Being a rival of an inferior never does good things. How many cars has Aston Marton made that are faster than a GTR? You'll never hear their CEO get pissed because they lost to a Datsun in a MotorMag comparison. Even if the Viper was slower than the ZR1, the true supercar thing to do would be to default to the excuse that Lambo and Ferrari owners have been using against Corvette owners for years: "At the end of the race, you're still in the Corvette, and we're still in the exotic supercar."

3. Always remember-think like a supercar. Nobody considered the Viper to be "just a Dodge." People walk past 911 GT2's and old Ferraris to get to a Viper at a car show like the Euros aren't even there. The Dodge branding is not the problem, nor is the price, the problem is that the Viper lost some of its attitude at the brand level. In the 90's, it was all "I'm an American supercar, deal with it!" Now they're tepid, trying clumsily to justify their price in interviews rather than just owning it as the fabulously frivolous extravagance it is to get into a very exclusive club. The problem isn't that people are choking on a $140,000 Dodge, because a Viper is a Viper first, and a Dodge second.

So, what real changes should be made to the car (within reason) to make it sell better? Not a lot, as most of the problems are ethos and sales-pitch related, but there are definitely a few:

Engine: The older cars had something that connected them to exotics, which they never shouted about-Exposed, beautiful metal engines. You open a Gen 1-4, and BAM, huge metal intake, fuel rails, the whole bit. People see that and they think, "Hey, you know what other engine looks like this? One from Lambo, Ferrari, Aston, Audi R8 V10, etc. You open a car and see plastic covers, you instantly think of cheap ****ty econoboxes, or a budget exotic like the 911 or the Corvette. Either way, the Viper, which is a true hair-shirted exotic, loses. No weight savings is worth a plastic engine covering.

Exhaust: Titanium, and for God's sake, install high-flow cats at the factory. There should be zero heat scorch/cabin heat issues in 2013. You can use aerogel to help this too.

Brakes: Can you think of a single exotic of this caliber that doesn't have CCBS? If you need, as Ralph did, to explain to journalists how steel brakes can be "pretty much as good" in interviews, you already lost. Just buy them. Nobody that can go in for a $140,000 car can't go in for one that costs $148,000. Fearing those minor price bumps are thinking like a Dodge marketer rather than a supercar marketer. You're out of the blue-collar-drywaller-on-a-pension market already, so spend like you're selling to anesthesiologists.

Frame: It should be aluminum. If the Viper is going to beat up high tech giants, it needs to make gains by losing some weight. Steel frames are also yestertech for almost every supercar, and not in a good way.

Lubrication: Dry sump. GTS name=race car in most people's minds. Own it by fully prepping it for the track.

Buck the market trend with a staggering warranty. I've always advocated American sports cars going to town on Euros with this marketing strategy, and the Viper could be king of the hill here. We all know that the Viper is the lowest maintenance, most durable true exotic out there. So play off that. 10 year/100,000 mile power train and instead of negatively sucking up to the exotics in comparisons, point out the fragility as the serious fault it is: "You'll need to set aside $5000 to service our rivals from Italy if you drive 15,000 miles a year, but you'll only spend $1500 on our Viper because we have better engineering. Save your money for tires!

Allow test drives. No way in hell am I buying anything that costs as much as a condo without seeing what it's like first. This should be really played up: Set up an auto-x at SRT dealerships with safe runoff and then get people in the seats. I'd even open it up to qualified Viper aspirants who aren't quite there yet (say the just-graduated computer scientist or mechanical engineer now making $90K), because they're going to be making $160K in a couple years and be able to afford at least a base Viper. Get the blood flowing.

Anyway, sorry for the long post, but I just wanted to let you know that there are non "Viper guys" out there that are interested in the car, and its survival.

Great post. Only problem is that the SRT bosses have already been exposed to these ideas and, at least last year, many of these marketing ideas were brushed aside. Let's hope they get their act straight by the end of this year or 2015 may be one of the last years Sergio allows the Viper to be built.

 

[theviper]

Back then it was the economy, it is still the reason today.

No it is not. The economy for the people who can afford a new Viper is great. Never been better! The market is at all time highs. The car market is at all time highs. The car should be selling.

 

[theviper]

SRT marketing failure is the reason the car isn't selling well. They flubbed everything along the way.

+1. But alas, SRT marketing must have been paid off by GM. There is no fathomable way that they could have literally done 90% of it wrong like they did.

 

[ACRucrazy]

The car market is at all time highs.

Sources/proof?

 

[PeerBlock]

Sources/proof?

That's actually true.

Check any stock info website like marketwatch and pull up any of the market index funds, like SPY or IVV (both follow the S&P 500 index), to get a quick overview of how the market is doing. The "average" YTD return for the market this year is over 30%, which means if you put your money into it in Jan 1 2013 you'd have seen a 30% rise just letting it sit in one of these ETFs.

If you were more active in the market you'd possibly see even greater returns. Why? There's really nowhere else for anyone investing to put their money. Bond returns are garbage because of QE (printing money to pay for stuff) and if you let your money sit in the bank you're losing about 3% a year due to inflation...in other words if you had $50K just sitting in an account this year, next year it's effective buying power drops to about $48K.

 

[theviper]

Sources/proof?

As PeerBlock stated. I'm not sure if your question is sarcastic or real because it's all over the news. Dow is at all time high. S&P all time high. All big 3 have profits. Record sales increases. Almost record yearly car sales. Not sure what other proof you need.

 

[ViperSmith]

As PeerBlock stated. I'm not sure if your question is sarcastic or real because it's all over the news. Dow is at all time high. S&P all time high. All big 3 have profits. Record sales increases. Almost record yearly car sales. Not sure what other proof you need.

Sorry, but I disagree. What happens if the fed hints at all that the $85b a month in QE is going to be scaled back, the markets panic.

The economy isn't healthy without money being printed, it isn't a good sign. Sure, things have been going well for a lot of folk, but it isn't the state people claim.

 

[theviper]

Sorry, but I disagree. What happens if the fed hints at all that the $85b a month in QE is going to be scaled back, the markets panic.

The economy isn't healthy without money being printed, it isn't a good sign. Sure, things have been going well for a lot of folk, but it isn't the state people claim.

I agree that the economy isn't healthy from a fundamentals standpoint, but I stand by my previous statement: "The economy for the people who can afford a new Viper is great. The market is at all time highs. The car market is at all time highs. The car should be selling.

 

[PeerBlock]

Sorry, but I disagree. What happens if the fed hints at all that the $85b a month in QE is going to be scaled back, the markets panic.

The economy isn't healthy without money being printed, it isn't a good sign. Sure, things have been going well for a lot of folk, but it isn't the state people claim.

What you're picking up on is the beginning of a "classless" state, where everyone is equal - equally poor. It's known as communism, and it's the endgame of the left. Refer to former soviet union or current china for examples of what the US is slowly becoming...but yeah, if you have money and you're smart enough to invest it you won't be able to spend it fast enough.

 

[ACRucrazy]

As PeerBlock stated. I'm not sure if your question is sarcastic or real because it's all over the news. Dow is at all time high. S&P all time high. All big 3 have profits. Record sales increases. Almost record yearly car sales. Not sure what other proof you need.

You said the car market is at all time highs. That is great that the manufacturers are making profit, however profit does not mean all time car sales.

Sure US auto sales have increased for 5 years straight. But that is only after taking a huge **** in 2008 only to be briefly propped up by cash for clunkers in 2009. And sure auto sales are increasing, (no record sales numbers however) and profits are up because the industry has adjusted to meet those profits at lower sales figures. So by adjusting to meet profits at lower figures and then getting back to pre 2008 recession sales figures is of course going to show even more profit.

Corvette production has been at early 1960s levels, Mustang is selling fewer, Viper is selling fewer, 911s are fewer, Lamborghini is still down. GTR sales for 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 are no where near 2008/2009 numbers. They are also not having record sales/production numbers, you know, the vehicles that the Viper is always compared to here on the forums.

I don't see how anyone could possibly think that the Viper should have near record sales numbers especially after not shipping until 2nd quarter, with an increased price, no convertible option and no ACR while every other "sports car" is selling fewer.

You said the Viper should be selling. It is selling, just fewer copies. Like all the others sports cars mentioned who are NOT selling record numbers. The car market that the Viper plays in and sells in is NOT at all time highs. Automakers will make profit, but that are doing so at their re-structured economy/compact and midsize car plans, not with their 2 seater/sports car/halo vehicles.

This does not mean I think the launch and handling of the new Viper could have been done differently. I think we all wish things happened different, but thats for SRT to worry about, not me.

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[PeerBlock]

You said the car market is at all time highs. That is great that the manufacturers are making profit, however profit does not mean all time car sales.

Sure US auto sales have increased for 5 years straight. But that is only after taking a huge **** in 2008 only to be briefly propped up by cash for clunkers in 2009. And sure auto sales are increasing, (no record sales numbers however) and profits are up because the industry has adjusted to meet those profits at lower sales figures. So by adjusting to meet profits at lower figures and then getting back to pre 2008 recession sales figures is of course going to show even more profit.

I wasn't talking specifically about the auto industry and I don't think the other guy was either. The issue was whether or not there were a lot of people who could afford a car like the viper in today's economy - the answer is yes. Are 6-figure cars selling in high numbers? No, because there is a general lack of leadership in the USA under obama and that breeds uncertainty for all citizens whether they are wealthy or not.

I don't see how anyone could possibly think that the Viper should have near record sales numbers especially after not shipping until 2nd quarter, with an increased price, no convertible option and no ACR while every other "sports car" is selling fewer.

Even if Gen 5 sold at or near its 2000 unit target, it would still be trailing its next nearest competitor, the corvette, by a wide margin (unless you restrict comparisons to the Z06/ZR1 only). I don't think 2000 units for the year was an unrealistic goal, but SRT made some bad calls with regards to production and delivery, plus they didn't advertise so very few people know about the Gen 5.

This does not mean I think the launch and handling of the new Viper could have been done differently. I think we all wish things happened different, but thats for SRT to worry about, not me.

The economy isn't great but for the people who can afford cars like the viper it's "average" at worst...so I wouldn't pin the slow sales on the economy alone. Viper sales could be better if SRT spent some of their marketing budget on ads rather than dumping all of it into racing.

 

[ACRucrazy]

2000 units this year was never a goal. I wish people would understand that. Ralph said last December they have the capacity to build that number a year. And they WON'T build that this year.

People took his comments as they expect to sell 2000 in 2013. That simply was not the case. Scaling back production this time of year is common for a car like this.

The Viper will NEVER sell near the Corvette. It's only made over 2000 in a year in 1994, 2004 and 2005. There is no sense comparing the hand built Viper numbers directly to the mass built plastic fantastic Corvette.

GT-R hovers around 1000 per year down from it's peak of just over 1700. Lambo just recently got back to 2000 a year after a slump. Even at 8,000 a year the 911 is down from previous years and too common for my tastes.

 

[PeerBlock]

2000 units this year was never a goal. I wish people would understand that. Ralph said last December they have the capacity to build that number a year. And they WON'T build that this year.

People took his comments as they expect to sell 2000 in 2013. That simply was not the case. Scaling back production this time of year is common for a car like this.

I don't know what SRT's official unit sales target for the Viper is, but 2,000 is not unreasonable, especially if that's worldwide and not limited to the US market. I don't think that Ralph was implying that they can produce exactly 2,000 units in a year, 2,001 would be impossible...even if that's not an official figure it's a hint at what SRT was aiming for...combine that with all the talk about "attracting a new kind of buyer", it could be construed as code for "we want to sell more vipers" and not stop at 500-1000 units sold per year. If dealers are getting stuck with unsold vipers, is there any justification for them to order more?