What do you think a 90 mile GTS-R is worth ? now and in 20 years?

[C O D Y]

I would love to see these cars jump in value. I have 3 vipers and enough spare parts to almost build a 4th or 5th one. But the fact remains, they are not a good investment. No way around it.

Over the last 4 years I have had 3 houses double in value while they are producing an income each month. This is just my area... your area and investments will differ, but I can assure you there are ways to make money where you live. When you look at the tax advantages of real estate and other investments, cars should be your last choice and at most maybe 5 to 15% of your portfolio.

There are a ton of people who can, have and will make more at investing then me, but if I took that same money I invested 4 years ago and put it in vipers I would be SOL and sucking hind **** right now.

So if you are really "always looking" for an investment, run away from the viper. It's not a good "investment".

However, if you have an extra $100,000 laying around (I assumed you will not need a loan to buy the car) and your portfolio has put you in a position to enjoy the nicer things in life, I would say BUY IT NOW and enjoy it how ever you want....

Good luck and have fun!

Betting your retirement on a few cars to appreciate enough to carry you into your golden years is a VERY high risk idea. My condolences to the guy who bet his future finances on "investing" in a collection of Ferrari's in the late 80's.

 

[harley56]

I think some were thrown off by your original words of always looking for an investment......

Seems to me in this case your investment refers to owning a fairly unique and highly desirable car that at any point in the future will be worth at least as much, or more than you originally paid. Without factoring in inflation, that is certainly the case with a GT2 and I say go for it. Big thing initially is how much you have to pay. Pay between $100K-$115K US dollars and I say go for it, enjoy it and certainly sell it some year for more than that.

I will pay you $110 for your gt2,


in?

Thanks,

But mine is not for sale, at least not at any price that is realistic. However, confirms what we already know, can't really lose money on a GT2. Again, originally paid $101K from you dad. Seems to me Marv and I have consecutive numbered ones, me #48 and him #49.

 

[C O D Y]

Harley this is not a knock on you, but how can you say you can't lose money?

If you took the offer of $110,000 you WOULD LOSE MONEY!

You paid 101K in Cali so you're already in to it $110,000 with sales tax and license. When you figure in inflation, cost of storage, insurance, maintenance, etc... you have lost even more.

That's not even talking about what you could have been making with the money in a secure no risk investment (CD / money market).

Please don't take this the wrong way. I love vipers and wish they were good investments. It's really all a mute point due to the fact your car isn't even for sale... nor or mine.

I will pay you $110 for your gt2,

However, confirms what we already know, can't really lose money on a GT2. Again, originally paid $101K from you dad.

 

[FinalEd357]

2 points:
An interesting investment strategy is '25x4'. Take one's net worth (at least $100k) and diversify as follows:
25% Real Estate equity
25% Traditional investments (stocks, bonds, IRA, 401k)
25% Non-traditional (new company, restaurant, etc.)
25% Cash
* Just keep 're-balancing' as the numbers change, but stick with the strategy. I would consider a 'viper collection' to fall into Non-traditional

I would pay the following for a '98 GT2:
$120k Less than 2k miles
$105-120k Less than 5k
$90-105k less than 10k
$85-90k more than 10k

Just my .02 - congrats to those who own these beautiful Snakes!

 

[harley56]

Harley this is not a knock on you, but how can you say you can't lose money?

If you took the offer of $110,000 you WOULD LOSE MONEY!

You paid 101K in Cali so you're already in to it $110,000 with sales tax and license. When you figure in inflation, cost of storage, insurance, maintenance, etc... you have lost even more.

That's not even talking about what you could have been making with the money in a secure no risk investment (CD / money market).

Please don't take this the wrong way. I love vipers and wish they were good investments. It's really all a mute point due to the fact your car isn't even for sale... nor or mine.

I will pay you $110 for your gt2,

However, confirms what we already know, can't really lose money on a GT2. Again, originally paid $101K from you dad.

Hi Cody, I don't take it the wrong way at all. I am not in the car over $110K, but my situation is not typical. It's non-op, so there is no license (I'm able to use a dealer plate for occasional trips around the block), sales tax was taken care of in another way and it sits with my other cars, so there is no storage, insurance has been minimal through Grundy and maintenance has been fluids and done by me. So, I am in it somewhere short of $105K. So, in my case if I sold it for $110K that check would be larger than my outlay to date. Am I making money on it -- no way, my $101K back then is more than $110K today. However, it's not often that a guy like me can buy a car and sell it for a greater amount down the road. Besides, if I had taken that $101K in '99 and put it in the same stock market I put my other money, about 50% of it would have been gone 12 months later. From that standpoint I'm richer for buying it. (Weird the rationalizations we will make to justify our viper passion)

 

[Les Quam]

I agree with Cody in that there always seems to be a few low mile stored collector quality GTS-Rs available. Much more difficult to find in original low mile condition are the blue and white 97 RT 10s and 92 RTs.

In regard to whether Vipers will appreciate in the future I believe certain year low mile, original cars with verifiable owner histories and paper work will appreciate. Yes in some instances low mile Vipers are readily available however what year and options are those cars? Generally speaking Viper collectors look for 92s, BW 97 RTs, 98 GTS-Rs, ACRs of any year with some ACRs being more desireable than others. Very few of the cars I mentioned with low miles and in factory original condition are available. Seems to be several low mile 2000, 2001,and GEN 3 cars for sale at any given time all are great cars but their appreciation potential is less IMHO then other Vipers.

Vipers being handbuilt in low numbers each year with tons of factory and dealer support which generates huge owner loyalty and enthusiasm is perhaps unprecedented in automotive history? Then factor in Vipers are handbuilt low volume AMERICAN cars with most importantly in my opinion BIG BLOCK engines generating unparrelled amounts of torque makes there appreciation potential the highest among the modern performance cars.

Lets not forget how difficult it is now to find original parts for the GEN 1 and 2 cars and that also makes a big difference in prospective appreciation. Clearly we would all agree that Vipers are a not a proper place for investment income but for many enthusiasts who have grown tired of the muscle car world for a variety of reasons Vipers are becoming a safe alternative for their discretionary collector car income. My two cents.

 

[thebigsnake]

You guys are making too much of the mileage issue. Who pays attention to the original mileage on a '69 Copo Camaro or a Superbird?
Fact is, if you're a guy who's not using your Viper, you're just a Treky. Don't try to church it up.

 

[Dakota Viper Collector]

I collect Vipers because it is fun to hunt them down. They very likely will not be my best investment but they will surely not be my worst either. Vipers are hobbies for many us and will be part of our lives forever (even if you sell your Viper the memories will remain forever).

 

[Viper ACR]

You guys are making too much of the mileage issue. Who pays attention to the original mileage on a '69 Copo Camaro or a Superbird?
Fact is, if you're a guy who's not using your Viper, you're just a Treky. Don't try to church it up.

I agree with you 100 % .
I think some are just a bit Jaded . I really think the Vipers are gonna be one of the most sought out cars in the future . Gen 2 cars for sure . I know if something happend and I couldn't have one for 10 years ,for what ever reason . Then came into money ,I would pay what ever it took to get a Gen 2 back in my garage .

 

[Viper ACR]

I collect Vipers because it is fun to hunt them down. They very likely will not be my best investment but they will surely not be my worst either. Vipers are hobbies for many us and will be part of our lives forever (even if you sell your Viper the memories will remain forever).

If I had your Collection of Vipers . I would die a very happy man . I would love to one day be comfortable enough to have that collection . GOOD JOB !!!! keep up the good work . I went to your picture gallery seen a few of your cars . Would be great to see them all in one picture that would make for a great shot .

 

[Roadtrip]

You guys are making too much of the mileage issue. Who pays attention to the original mileage on a '69 Copo Camaro or a Superbird?
Fact is, if you're a guy who's not using your Viper, you're just a Treky. Don't try to church it up.

I Agree.

Having a 900 mile car is tragic. What are you waiting for? Enjoy the thing.

That's like becoming celibate, so you can date a hot **** star!!! Frankly you guys and your car bubbles should be flogged! Or at least have your fluids drained and put on a rack for 15 years until I come up with a better analogy.

 

[Les Quam]

Low mileage performance cars built in small volume like the Vipers will be used someday, and that day is a loooong way off as reference Vipers for restoration purposes. No matter how hard the factory tries to keep records on parts and assembly procedures the records and techs fade away as the years go by. More importantly the Viper has yearly assembly and part changes and with such low build volumes those parts are scarce even now. The running model year changes are already a source of debate on the GEN 1 and 2 cars even today. Imagine that debate 30 years from now as to what is factory correct or not?

At some point in the history of Vipers there will be pure non track Viper shows and in those shows a class will exist for OE or original equipment cars to be judged. The low mileage unmodified Vipers will be used as the standard by which future generations of Viper owners have their Vipers judged in that OE class. Therefore low mileage unmodified well preserved cars of any type are the rarest cars to find and ultimately the most valuable in that regard by collectors. An original low mile unmolested HEMI Cuda stored in a non corrosive environment is worth more than a restored HEMI Cuda even if restored by Roger Gibson.

That being said none of us know how long we will be here on this earth and saving our Viper for the next guy is pure insanity! Pure stupidity! A waste of the little precious time we have here. Therefore I agree with all those who advocate drive em like you stole em.

However buying a new Viper and driving the snot of it and adding upgrades and enjoying the heck out of it will inherently hurt it's resale value even if a resale is not contemplated any time soon. So some Viper owners find and buy low mileage unmodified ultra rare or unique Vipers that have already been saved by someone else (the next guy) over the years and park them for future resale knowing that the appreciation on the stored Viper will pay for the depreciation on the driven and enjoyed Viper.

For example 1992 Vipers with low miles and factory original are still available in the mid 50s and as the first model year of an iconic legendary car will undoubtedly appreciate substantially over time. To buy such a 92 and park it next to your GEN 2 or 3 that you drive the wheels off is not such a implausible plan? All it takes is one public sale for silly money like the one at Barrett Jackson on the GTS-R a few years ago to ignite the collectors to start buying these cars and suddenly your 50K car is now selling for 100K which pays for the depreciation on your driven and enjoyed Vipers. My humble opinion on the low mileage discussion.

 

[FinalEd357]

great post Les

 

[Leslie]

I enjoy watching Barrett Jackson every year to see what cars have truly proven to be collectables

 

[Les Quam]

As Elvis was so fond of saying, "Thank you, thank you very much."

I think the whole Viper story with it's humble birth handbuilt lifespan in low volumes and subsequent strong factory commitment in the form of special editions, comp coupes owner invitationals etc. and screaming big block torque that the factory keeps upgrading to keep the Viper on top in the HP wars is unprecedented in automotive history. The car IMHO really is a modern legend.