What is the best high flow cats fore a 2000 gts?
- Thread starter mazzo
- Start date
2BADD 4U
Enthusiast
Random Tech.
RT, and you have 2 choices:
Stainless Steel / Ceramic - up to about 600hp
Metalic Substrate - more expensive and for heavily modded V10's
http://partsrack.blastmart.com/customer/home.php?cat=102
Stainless Steel / Ceramic - up to about 600hp
Metalic Substrate - more expensive and for heavily modded V10's
http://partsrack.blastmart.com/customer/home.php?cat=102
SSSSE YA
Enthusiast
PAIR 3 inch in/out Metal Honeycomb Cats
THE BEST!!! These non-ceramic metal honeycomb substrate high-flow catalytic converters are used in Europe by V-10 supertuners whose names you would recognize. Custom built for your application - headers, exhaust type, power goals, heat requirements, etc. These cats are recommended for applications of 525 HP+.
I have them on my Viper and they sound great and still pass CA smog.
THE BEST!!! These non-ceramic metal honeycomb substrate high-flow catalytic converters are used in Europe by V-10 supertuners whose names you would recognize. Custom built for your application - headers, exhaust type, power goals, heat requirements, etc. These cats are recommended for applications of 525 HP+.
I have them on my Viper and they sound great and still pass CA smog.
2000 GTS Owner
Enthusiast
Random Tech is what i have on mine with B&B exhaust..
Shop for the best price.
The high end metallic substrate stainless steel cats we started carrying in mid 2005 are manufactured by the same company that makes those Random Tech branded cats. These are the exact same cats, but without the markup from an additional middle man. They go from the manufacturer straight to us.
We have a direct fit pair and a raw pair without the pipe and clamps, depending on your installation needs.
http://www.roeracing.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=9&idproduct=25
http://www.roeracing.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=9&idproduct=235
Regards,
Sean
The high end metallic substrate stainless steel cats we started carrying in mid 2005 are manufactured by the same company that makes those Random Tech branded cats. These are the exact same cats, but without the markup from an additional middle man. They go from the manufacturer straight to us.
We have a direct fit pair and a raw pair without the pipe and clamps, depending on your installation needs.
http://www.roeracing.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=9&idproduct=25
http://www.roeracing.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=9&idproduct=235
Regards,
Sean
This isn't rocket science, but I did do some research.
Before plunking down your hard earned.......not that cats will likely break any of us, ask what the cat's flow rates are.
Although price is a factor to consider.....the old addage you get what you pay for applies here also.
Some items to consider would be:
Are the ends TIG welded (RandomTech) or MIG welded(MIG is commonly found on mass-produced exhaust products). On many "direct fit" or less expensive converters they simply weld in extension tubes on the front and rear of the cat, usually with poor weld quality (see above). On some lesser products the outlet side of the converter is expanded so the pipe slips OVER the exhaust system, not into it. This may cause a flow restriction.
As far as saying that all metal matrix converters are the same, that's like saying all Vipers are the same. From the outside, you can't tell whether a Viper has a stock engine or one that's highly modified. With catalytic converters, the situation is the same. You can't tell how the substrate is put together, or what the chemical composition of the washcoat is (can you say China and little quality control). There has to be a reason that Random Tech cats are the overwhelming favorite of Viper owners. That being the case, it's to be expected that there would be a cheap look-alike cat sold under the guise that it was just as good.
Before plunking down your hard earned.......not that cats will likely break any of us, ask what the cat's flow rates are.
Although price is a factor to consider.....the old addage you get what you pay for applies here also.
Some items to consider would be:
Are the ends TIG welded (RandomTech) or MIG welded(MIG is commonly found on mass-produced exhaust products). On many "direct fit" or less expensive converters they simply weld in extension tubes on the front and rear of the cat, usually with poor weld quality (see above). On some lesser products the outlet side of the converter is expanded so the pipe slips OVER the exhaust system, not into it. This may cause a flow restriction.
As far as saying that all metal matrix converters are the same, that's like saying all Vipers are the same. From the outside, you can't tell whether a Viper has a stock engine or one that's highly modified. With catalytic converters, the situation is the same. You can't tell how the substrate is put together, or what the chemical composition of the washcoat is (can you say China and little quality control). There has to be a reason that Random Tech cats are the overwhelming favorite of Viper owners. That being the case, it's to be expected that there would be a cheap look-alike cat sold under the guise that it was just as good.
About 6 years ago when I started testing the HP gains by removing / replacing cats, I found that the biggest restriction for producing HP was the stock cats 4 substrate design.
With a high flowing, lower cell number per inch (more open design) two substrate ceramic cat, we could get within 1-2 HP of a pipece of straight pipe on a 450-500 HP engine.
For years, we carried these ceramic cats.
At the SEMA show in 2004, our rep at the cat manufacturer dsiplay booth told us that we could start getting the meatllic substrate cats that they make for other companies. One of those other companies happens to be Random Tech.
Since we knew that the ceramic cats would get us to within 1-2 HP of a straight pipe and the metallic were a known higher flowing design used by other companies selling Viper cats, we started carrying them without testing for the HP change.
The matallic ones are a single substrate bullet design, where the earlier ones we used were a larger diameter body design.
In either case, the cat change will allow the engine to flow more air and make more HP, and that's the goal for most people. The side benefits are improved sound and cooler side sills.
Since 2000, we've sold at least 500+ sets of cats. We've always supplied a 5 year 50,000 mile warranty with them. Of the cats sold, we've probably warranty replaced 3 car sets. Not bad odds, considering that all those were ceramics and not the tougher metallic substrates.
In regard to emissions, a typical two substrate high flow ceramic cat will usually be able to burn off more excess fuel than a single substrate metallic cat, primarily due to the surface area.
Expect a good high flow cat to pick you up 14-17 RWHP on a 1992-1999 model Viper and 9-12 RWHP on a 2000-2002. 2003+ can see 17-20 by removing the two stock cats and replacing with one single high flow. Those are the average results we see with our chassis dyno.
Below is a picture of one of our direct fit 2.5" cats. They're designed to slip into the stock muffler like the stock cat does. The body is stainless steel. We TIG weld 304 stainless pipe, set to the correct diameter and length, so it's a direct replacement to the stock cat. With this kit, we include two stainless steel strap style exhaust calmps, like the factory uses.
Regards,
Sean
With a high flowing, lower cell number per inch (more open design) two substrate ceramic cat, we could get within 1-2 HP of a pipece of straight pipe on a 450-500 HP engine.
For years, we carried these ceramic cats.
At the SEMA show in 2004, our rep at the cat manufacturer dsiplay booth told us that we could start getting the meatllic substrate cats that they make for other companies. One of those other companies happens to be Random Tech.
Since we knew that the ceramic cats would get us to within 1-2 HP of a straight pipe and the metallic were a known higher flowing design used by other companies selling Viper cats, we started carrying them without testing for the HP change.
The matallic ones are a single substrate bullet design, where the earlier ones we used were a larger diameter body design.
In either case, the cat change will allow the engine to flow more air and make more HP, and that's the goal for most people. The side benefits are improved sound and cooler side sills.
Since 2000, we've sold at least 500+ sets of cats. We've always supplied a 5 year 50,000 mile warranty with them. Of the cats sold, we've probably warranty replaced 3 car sets. Not bad odds, considering that all those were ceramics and not the tougher metallic substrates.
In regard to emissions, a typical two substrate high flow ceramic cat will usually be able to burn off more excess fuel than a single substrate metallic cat, primarily due to the surface area.
Expect a good high flow cat to pick you up 14-17 RWHP on a 1992-1999 model Viper and 9-12 RWHP on a 2000-2002. 2003+ can see 17-20 by removing the two stock cats and replacing with one single high flow. Those are the average results we see with our chassis dyno.
Below is a picture of one of our direct fit 2.5" cats. They're designed to slip into the stock muffler like the stock cat does. The body is stainless steel. We TIG weld 304 stainless pipe, set to the correct diameter and length, so it's a direct replacement to the stock cat. With this kit, we include two stainless steel strap style exhaust calmps, like the factory uses.
Regards,
Sean
I think somebody needs to check their facts here. I did a lot of checking before I bought my converters and have some friends in the industry, so I have a bit more insight. For openers, the Random Tech cats are 3", not 2-1/2". Secondly, I was at the 2004 SEMA show and chased down the converter manufacturers who had displays. Everyone told me they supplied Random Tech. I subsequently did more checking and when I pressed the issue and asked for specifics, none of the manufacturers could supply them. As it turns out, none of the companies who displayed at the SEMA show actually supply Random.
I don't particularly care which converter anybody buys, but I think postings on this forum should be accurate. We've all been misled in the past by bogus postings and we don't need any more. That's just my 2 cents.
I don't particularly care which converter anybody buys, but I think postings on this forum should be accurate. We've all been misled in the past by bogus postings and we don't need any more. That's just my 2 cents.
banton
Viper Owner
I couldn't agree more, that is why I might suggest you heed your own comments to ensure your facts are accurate. I can't speak to the validity of vendors at SEMA, but you are factually incorrect in your statement regarding size availability for the RT cats. They offer a range of sizes for there metal substrate convertors. They list the 81000 series, which is a ceramic version specifically for the Viper, but they do offer a full range of inlet/outlet size. This is taken directly from their site:
Round, Metal Matrix (Race)
7000 Series-- 2", 2-1/4", 2-1/2", 2-3/4", 3", 3-1/2" and 4" inlet/outlet
Round, Ceramic
8100 Series-- 2", 2-1/4", 2-1/2" and 3" inlet/outlet
Oval Ceramic
8000 Series-- 2", 2-1/4", 2-1/2" and 3" inlet/outlet
9000 Series-- 2", 2-1/4", 2-1/2", 3", 3-1/2" and 4" inlet/outlet
I'll gladly put the cats and warranty we offer up against any other cat currently available.
Put them side by side, run them on the dyno.
The benefits are the same.
We've been doing business direct with the same manufacturer for over 5 years and we did not just stumble across them. We found out who the better suppliers were and contacted them about our needs for the Viper.
Random Tech does not make their own substrates, they buy them. Like many, they're buying good ones.
We offer Random Tech products and like what they offer (their cat-back is a very nice product at a great value).
I posted on this thread to let people know there are other viable options for less money, just as there has been ever since more than just H M S was available to supply Viper parts. Competition helps improve products and makes prices lower for the consumers. You don't have to buy from Roe Racing, but do yourself a favor and shop around. You can spend 25-40% less and have an equal performing part that will last just as long.
Regards,
Sean
Put them side by side, run them on the dyno.
The benefits are the same.
We've been doing business direct with the same manufacturer for over 5 years and we did not just stumble across them. We found out who the better suppliers were and contacted them about our needs for the Viper.
Random Tech does not make their own substrates, they buy them. Like many, they're buying good ones.
We offer Random Tech products and like what they offer (their cat-back is a very nice product at a great value).
I posted on this thread to let people know there are other viable options for less money, just as there has been ever since more than just H M S was available to supply Viper parts. Competition helps improve products and makes prices lower for the consumers. You don't have to buy from Roe Racing, but do yourself a favor and shop around. You can spend 25-40% less and have an equal performing part that will last just as long.
Regards,
Sean
i cant talk much on the performance as im not that versed on it but the roe ovals i put on my car have cooled the sills down a LOT. on a silver car ya always have to keep repainting the sills from them getting yellowed from the heat.
NOT with the roe cats though. they have not even come close to being heated like the stock cats do. the color has NOT changed one bit since i installed them.
NOT with the roe cats though. they have not even come close to being heated like the stock cats do. the color has NOT changed one bit since i installed them.
AZTVR
Enthusiast
Could anyone comment on the difference between sound with the OEM cats and Corsa exhaust compared to the Hi-flow cats and a Corsa exhaust? I'd like the lower heat, but don't really want significant sound increase at this point.
Re: What is the best high flow cats fore a 2000 gts?
I just put a straight 2.5" pipe on both sides deleting the cat and factory side mufflers but leaving the rear factory muffler and tips. Remarkably cooler running, seat of pants power increase and near factory exhaust note!!! I'M VERY happy with this upgrade and it's easily returned to stock
I just put a straight 2.5" pipe on both sides deleting the cat and factory side mufflers but leaving the rear factory muffler and tips. Remarkably cooler running, seat of pants power increase and near factory exhaust note!!! I'M VERY happy with this upgrade and it's easily returned to stock
About 6 years ago when I started testing the HP gains by removing / replacing cats, I found that the biggest restriction for producing HP was the stock cats 4 substrate design.
With a high flowing, lower cell number per inch (more open design) two substrate ceramic cat, we could get within 1-2 HP of a pipece of straight pipe on a 450-500 HP engine.
For years, we carried these ceramic cats.
At the SEMA show in 2004, our rep at the cat manufacturer dsiplay booth told us that we could start getting the meatllic substrate cats that they make for other companies. One of those other companies happens to be Random Tech.
Since we knew that the ceramic cats would get us to within 1-2 HP of a straight pipe and the metallic were a known higher flowing design used by other companies selling Viper cats, we started carrying them without testing for the HP change.
The matallic ones are a single substrate bullet design, where the earlier ones we used were a larger diameter body design.
In either case, the cat change will allow the engine to flow more air and make more HP, and that's the goal for most people. The side benefits are improved sound and cooler side sills.
Since 2000, we've sold at least 500+ sets of cats. We've always supplied a 5 year 50,000 mile warranty with them. Of the cats sold, we've probably warranty replaced 3 car sets. Not bad odds, considering that all those were ceramics and not the tougher metallic substrates.
In regard to emissions, a typical two substrate high flow ceramic cat will usually be able to burn off more excess fuel than a single substrate metallic cat, primarily due to the surface area.
Expect a good high flow cat to pick you up 14-17 RWHP on a 1992-1999 model Viper and 9-12 RWHP on a 2000-2002. 2003+ can see 17-20 by removing the two stock cats and replacing with one single high flow. Those are the average results we see with our chassis dyno.
Below is a picture of one of our direct fit 2.5" cats. They're designed to slip into the stock muffler like the stock cat does. The body is stainless steel. We TIG weld 304 stainless pipe, set to the correct diameter and length, so it's a direct replacement to the stock cat. With this kit, we include two stainless steel strap style exhaust calmps, like the factory uses.
Regards,
Sean
Sean, would you recommend the Belanger HIgh flow 3-inch ceramic cats that bolt direct onto their headers as the best/highest flow cats you carry? I'm seriously considering going with them being that I'm buying their ceramic headers for sure. Any comments on that..? Thanks
--- Kevin
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