Whats better Belanger headers or ACRX headers?

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

KenricGTS,

If I may chime in for a moment, I have a client who runs his Gen 4 at Luguna Seca religously. His Viper is built to the hilt as far as rear diff, suspension ect, ( hense ACR like set-up ). He has purchased a set of the OEM Viper Track headers w/cats ( BBG high temp coating ) to accomodate factory muffler or corsa & will be doing before / after testing for an article BBG is writing for Snake Eyes Magazine. Bye the way Laguna Seca has noise level requirements so this will be great data on stock muffler vs. corsa.

Point being if you or others want to speak with this Viper owner on his thoughts of performance level changes, I am sure we can arrange after installed & tested. I say this so you can get the scope from a non bias source. Guys like this do their do diligense before purchasing.

To respond to an earler post that these headers are 95% track use, not correct! The ARH Gen 4 Headers are now setting the standards for the next generation in Viper Performance in TRQ / HP gains. Order with a set of metal substrate high flow cats then bolt up your stock muffler & you won't be disappointed.

Thanks for your consideration & any question don't hestitate to contact us.

[email protected]


=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=

 

[THEMASH]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

The oil seperator reduces the knock threshold of the engine by keeping oil and oil vapor from entering the intake manifold. Oil vapor promotes knock, if the engine knocks (pings or detonates) then the computer will pull timing lead and that hurts the power.

Same as a catch tank? I want one... Price ? PM me please..

 

[Art 138]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

Same as a catch tank? I want one... Price ? PM me please..

When I pulled the intake manifold for the porting I noticied oil runs inside; I have a catch can on my Hemi Jeep SRT 8; I would opt for one on the gen IV also.....

 

[SilveRT8]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

When I pulled the intake manifold for the porting I noticied oil runs inside; I have a catch can on my Hemi Jeep SRT 8; I would opt for one on the gen IV also.....

I have one on the SRT8 Jeep also, here's a pic, it's the round can with the 2 rubber hoses, next to the rad cap:

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Nader]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

Those are impressive numbers for a GenIII but from what I have heard is that arrow rebuilds run 5%-10% stronger than the engines from the factory. Did you do a baseline on the engine first? There are many on this site that have said that there isnt much benefit to headers on a GenIII. Also can you talk a bit about dealing with the heat issue when using headers on a genIII? I have heard several stories of burns O2 wires and melted hoses plug wires...

I am interested if those numbers are accurate.

Gentleman,

GEN 3 American Racing Headers Stepped 1 5/8" to 1 3/4" long tube 5 into 1 race merge collector. Fresh Gen 3 on engine dyno @ Arrow Racing. Bone stock engine / bone stock controller / delete cats. Take notice of the excellent trq band & hp numbers. This is what got everybody's attention ( SRT / Mopar ). With a properly modified controller their is definite power gains to be had!

Arrow Racing is SRT's authorized Viper Engine Builder.

RPM / TRQ / HP
3500 552.9 368.5
3600 539.6 369.9
3700 542.0 381.8
3800 553.2 400.3
3900 561.3 416.8
4000 568.2 432.7
4100 568.4 443.7
4200 567.7 454.0
4300 565.0 462.6
4400 573.8 480.7
4500 575.3 492.9
4600 575.9 504.4
4700 574.1 513.8
4800 567.2 518.4
4900 564.3 526.5
5000 560.5 533.6
5100 556.6 540.5
5200 553.7 548.2
5300 542.6 547.6
5400 535.3 550.4
5500 526.4 551.3
5600 513.3 547.3
5700 503.8 546.8
5800 487.2 538.0
5900 479.4 538.5
Max 575.9 551.3

=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=

 

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

Nader,

I'm sure that Arrow will be very pleased to hear that the general perception to the Viper Nation is that their blue printing procedures work ( produce power ). They take pride in their engine developement programs as witnessed.

Great questions. We all were assured that this fresh build for our testing was built to factory specs ( bearing clearences, camshaft, controller, ect ). When we arrived the engine was fired up & went for an approximate 2 hour break in period, which included heat cycling.

All dyno runs done same morning, same engine, same dyno by Arrow Racings enginers & scrutinized by the SRT crew. They were very surprised that we made more TRQ from 3500 rpm on up, than the competitors design!

Dyno run 1, Bone stocker delete cats - Baseline
Dyno run 2, Bone stocker w/ARH 1 5/8 to 1 3/4 delete cats - baseline
Dyno run 3, Bone stocker w/competitors headers delete cats - baseline

I won't post competitors results, out of respect for their company. I only state our ARH test's empirical data. ARH stepped header made more TQR / HP through out the entire power band on testing day.

I own a Gen 3 Viper as well & believe in header upgrades with out doubt. Yes our Vipers run hot, under the hood especially around town type driving. I have lost o2 wires aswell due to heat & movement of exhaust under excelleration. I have not personally burnt any spark plug wires because I am carefull to have heat shields installed & wire paths secured to correct locations.

Solutions:
Always check o2 wires before reinstalling to make sure in good condition & thermal wrap. This small expense will help to prevent such issues that are inheriant in our Vipers design.

Spark plugs wires should be routed back with care & spark plug heat shields properly set in place ensuring no contact on headers.

You may have to zipp tie your hoses and wiring harness to ensure no contact with newly installed headers. Don't hesitate to stop into your local speed shop & purchase some high heat thermal tape for insurance on those to close for comfort areas that we all will encounter.

By taking the time to do a clean install & double & triple checking your work you should have a successful trouble free upgrade, no matter what brand you favor.

I wil post the stock dyno baseline run later this evening.

Don't hesitate to contact me for additonal info & thanks for your questions.

[email protected]

=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=

 

[Boxer12]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

You can hear what Belangers sound like from the cabin in this vid-

[media]http://vimeo.com/10880517[/media]

You can hear what ACRXs sound like in this vid (dyno & track)-

2010 Dodge Viper ACR-X | The Viper ACR-X is a combination of the record-setting, street-legal Viper ACR and the championship-winning Viper Competition Coupe.

 

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

Here we go Gentleman as promised,

Dyno Run GEN 3 Bone Stock w/factory exhaust manifolds, delete cats, w/stock controller @ Arrow Racings Facilty Base Line for test purpose. Again the AHR headers out performed all others that day on torque & hp throught out the whole usable power band!

RPM / TRQ / HP
3500 531.7 354.3
3600 522.6 358.2
3700 528.7 372.5
3800 538.8 389.8
3900 547.3 406.4
4000 553.0 421.2
4100 552.1 431.0
4200 545.8 436.5
4300 545.1 446.3
4400 552.3 462.7
4500 553.3 474.1
4600 555.9 486.9
4700 556.1 497.7
4800 547.4 500.3
4900 544.0 507.5
5000 537.2 511.4
5100 532.8 517.4
5200 530.1 524.9
5300 522.4 527.2
5400 515.3 529.8
5500 505.9 529.8
5600 498.7 531.7
5700 487.1 528.7
5800 475.7 525.3
5900 468.6 526.4
Max 556.1 531.7

=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=

 

[Dan Cragin]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

We have new larger oil seperator we are about to prototype. Once tested I will post up pictures and pricing!

 

[ACRsnake]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

the ARH can always be coated .

 

[viperbilliam]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

Bad Boyzz Garage:

Why don't you use a flex joint used by the factory? Will not using it cause problems down the line?

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

The Laguna Seca record was set with an ACR and Belanger Headers ----gotta go with Lou and a company that has been helping the Viper Community for as long as I can remember.

 

[Malu59RT]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

The Laguna Seca record was set with an ACR and Belanger Headers ----gotta go with Lou and a company that has been helping the Viper Community for as long as I can remember.

Are you sure? I've seen that statement a few times, and it's always corrected as using the factory headers. Otherwise, you would be misleading people who believed a factory ACR set the production car record at Laguna Seca, as the Belanger's are NOT the production header used in the ACR.

 

[Martin]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

The Laguna Seca record was set with an ACR and Belanger Headers ----gotta go with Lou and a company that has been helping the Viper Community for as long as I can remember.

When asked about what the SRT team did to prep the car for the record, they said that they just did some suspension adjustments and then "drove it onto the truck". I always took that to mean that it was a completely stock car. I know that I'd personally be a bit bothered if we found out that the car wasn't really a "production" car when it took the record...

 

[bushido]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

the ARH can always be coated .

No need for coating. I have no heat issues with them whatsoever. On the track, or on the street, and I don't even have heat shields on them..

 

[plumcrazy]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

gotta go with Lou and a company that has been helping the Viper Community for as long as I can remember.

i dont know about records but i agree with bill on this one

 

[Nader]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

OK so when comparing those two dyno sheets I get a max TRQ increase of 23.8 and HP 23.3. Not bad. That means around 18 HP and TRQ to the wheels. Respectable. Now what about below 3500? Do have statistics below 3,500? Why wouldnt you start lower especially when on an engine dyno?


RPM TRQ+ HP+
3500 21.2 14.2
3600 17.0 11.7
3700 13.3 9.3
3800 14.4 10.5
3900 14.0 10.4
4000 15.2 11.5
4100 16.3 12.7
4200 21.9 17.5
4300 19.9 16.3
4400 21.5 18.0
4500 22.0 18.8
4600 20.0 17.5
4700 18.0 16.1
4800 19.8 18.1
4900 20.3 19.0
5000 23.3 22.2
5100 23.8 23.1
5200 23.6 23.3
5300 20.2 20.4
5400 20.0 20.6
5500 20.5 21.5
5600 14.6 15.6
5700 16.7 18.1
5800 11.5 12.7
5900 10.8 12.1

Here we go Gentleman as promised,

Dyno Run GEN 3 Bone Stock w/factory exhaust manifolds, delete cats, w/stock controller @ Arrow Racings Facilty Base Line for test purpose. Again the AHR headers out performed all others that day on torque & hp throught out the whole usable power band!

RPM / TRQ / HP
3500 531.7 354.3
3600 522.6 358.2
3700 528.7 372.5
3800 538.8 389.8
3900 547.3 406.4
4000 553.0 421.2
4100 552.1 431.0
4200 545.8 436.5
4300 545.1 446.3
4400 552.3 462.7
4500 553.3 474.1
4600 555.9 486.9
4700 556.1 497.7
4800 547.4 500.3
4900 544.0 507.5
5000 537.2 511.4
5100 532.8 517.4
5200 530.1 524.9
5300 522.4 527.2
5400 515.3 529.8
5500 505.9 529.8
5600 498.7 531.7
5700 487.1 528.7
5800 475.7 525.3
5900 468.6 526.4
Max 556.1 531.7

=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=

 

[FastZilla]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

Now what about below 3500? Do have statistics below 3,500? Why wouldn't you start lower especially when on an engine dyno?

Not to be a smarty pants but go drive a Gen4 and you'll understand. Below 4k rpm they are anemic - exact opposite of a gen 1 & 2. Get them above 4K and you better be hanging on!

 

[FastZilla]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

I obviously have no idea what I'm talking about but it's my firm opinion that until the computer is "cracked" the only gains you will see will be what the computer doesn't see....

...meaning the parts presently available are not able to be fully utilized because of computer limiting based upon "safety" related features programmed in. Until the different headers can really be "tested" unrestrained by the SRT programming in the stock/Mopar computers then you are really searching for which header can "fool" the computer the most - not which header produces the most power.

IMO your money will be best spent on a Mopar ECU (for the throttle response and ability to utilize 93 octane) & a cat-back exhaust system (so you get the good sound). You gains will be respectable and you will only be out $2k. Might as well put on the $150 worth of smooth tubes and K&N for $150 and spend around $2200.

Wait a few more months until someone cracks the computer (figures out how to suppress/control the knock sensor) then dump the other $3500 on the headers and HF cats, $500 on the intake porting/polishing.

$6000 (plus installation) for a "complete" system & approx 30hp 25tq or.....

$2000 (plus install - no money wasted/lost) for a "partial" system & approx 25hp & 20tq....

...but what do I know....It's your money.

I can already hear the flames coming....

 

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

Gentleman,

At BAD BOYZZ GARAGE we have an Exclusive Partnership with JET-HOT High Performance Coatings, the number 1 name in the industry. This means if you require thermal coating, we will provide for you the grade that best fits your application.

JET-HOT is now using exclusive nPowered nanotechnology in it's coatings which make them perform better, last longer and out shine others. There is only 1 JET-HOT!

Our program goes as follows:
JET-HOT Color Coat Satin Black 1600 degree
JET-HOT Extreme Sterling - Brilliant High Luster Silver Finish 1700 degrees
JET-HOT 2000 Semi Rough Texture Flat Black 2400 degree

We are offering an introductory special for the month of April of on all coatings. Please don't hesitate to inquire on pricing.

[email protected]

=DISTRIBUTORS OF POWER=

 

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

Nader,

SRT & Arrow Racing did not test below 3500 rpm. No favortisms. From reading ealier posts 3500 - 5200 would constitute mid range real world performance driving. The finished results were the ARH headers won.

As far as the ARH Gen 4 headers go the results are even better! Higher compression, bigger valves, longer intake runners. Just beggin for long tube 5 into 1 merge collector.

Great question.

 

[Nader]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

I own a genIII and the comparison I posted detailed the dyno runs posted from AR for the gen III. Sorry I neglected to mention that. There Is some documentation from SRT that compared the TRQ curves of each generation. While there was a small dip I'm the gen IV curve, it is hardly anemic.

Not to be a smarty pants but go drive a Gen4 and you'll understand. Below 4k rpm they are anemic - exact opposite of a gen 1 & 2. Get them above 4K and you better be hanging on!

 

[TrackAire]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

About 5 weeks ago I got to see the new ACR-X header in person during the Viper Clubs Sacramento Chapter meeting at the Sac Auto Museum. The header really looks outstanding from a fit and finish point of view. The two piece design makes a lot of sense. What nobody is talking about is the actual collector and exhaust spike to route the gases from each cylinder. A couple of car builders that were touring the museum saw me looking at the units and commented on the design and the nicely done spike. I'm not a header expert so I listened and they explained how the gases get routed and also how the spike helps with reversion and scavaging on a long tube system like this.

Toddy also had actual videos of the Arrow Racing facility (very nice set up, looks more like a lab than a tradition rebuilding shop) and the actual dyno runs on the Gen III motor they were doing their testing on. It was cool to see the SRT guys checking it all out and watching the needle climb as the V10 made its multiple dyno runs. Now getting to witness a new product and testing at Arrow (and meeting all the technicians and SRT guys) would make a very cool raffle prize. Between seeing the design of the header, it's stainless steel construction and its approval and blessing from SRT, I ordered a set.

Regarding stainless steel vs steel, until 5 weeks ago, I thought Belangers were stainless steel due to the price. I was suprised to find out they are steel and coated. Now if anybody can claim that steel is superior to stainless steel for an exhaust system, you've really got me scratching my head. I can't think of one modern high performance car that doesn't have stainless steel exhaust manifolds from the factory. Heck, even my wifes new Sequoia has stainless steel exhaust manifolds. Lighter weight and less corrosion are real world factors that stainless steel provides. Apparently Dodge feels the same way as my 2009 came with stainless steel manifolds.


Six years ago we had to do testing for a product mounted under hood and heat was a concern. The vehicles were full size SUVs and Pickups. What we found is once the vehicle got to 50 mph, the under hood heat was within 10 degrees F of the outside ambient temps. Now I don't know what the under hood heat of my Viper is at 50 mph (I may actually test it this summer), but the vehicles we tested had no hood vents, no under body belly pan or aero features like our Vipers do. The temps will obviously be higher in stop and go traffic or at long idles. For this reason, I'm doing a Jet Hot thermal coating in black. I'm not a fan of shiney headers (I think they kind of look cheap and out of place under the hood of the all function Viper) but love the all business look of the black pipes. The reality is heat is very easily controlled with thermal coatings so the steel vs stainless steel heat issue is a mute point. JonB claims in his Belanger sales special post that stainless runs 220 degrees hotter...I can't see that, especially if the stainless steel header is coated. I'm a customer of JonB's but I do feel his post regarding the advantages of steel headers does not make sense. JonB, have you had a chance to see the ACR-X headers in person?

If the Belanagers had gone on sale 6 weeks ago, I might have bought those instead but found out about the ACR-X headers. Once I googled Amercian Racing Header and found all the positive feedback from Corvette, Camaro and GTO owners, I felt very positive about my decision. Apparently having uncoated stainless steel headers has not caused any of those running them to post issues.

Compared to a year ago, I'm happy that we have at least 3 high quality header manufacturers to choose from. Hopefully other manufacturers will develope more products for the Vipers. (hello Gen IV computer tuners, please break the codes )

Cheers,
George

 

[eucharistos]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

almost skipped reading this thread

good info all

 

[FastZilla]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

I own a genIII and the comparison I posted detailed the dyno runs posted from AR for the gen III. Sorry I neglected to mention that. There Is some documentation from SRT that compared the TRQ curves of each generation. While there was a small dip I'm the gen IV curve, it is hardly anemic.

IMO a gen 3 pulls harder to 4500 than a gen 4.

 

[Nader]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

I am not sure to 4,300 but I know it does on the low end.

IMO a gen 3 pulls harder to 4500 than a gen 4.

 

[Viper X]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

A couple of thoughts for the group's consideration:

As many of you probably know, the shocks supplied with the comp coupe are Moton Motorsport Shocks. The shocks supplied with the ACR and ACRX are made by KW. When I made a few calls, I found out that the KW's on the ACR were quite a be less costly per car than the Motons. You can draw your own conclusions on why Dodge chose to do what they did.

Now, I don't know but the same may be true of the headers selected for the ACRX. I do know that the headers selected by Dodge for the comp coupe are Belanger Headers and AR style headers have been available long before the comp coupe was built.

If the American Racing Headers (actually long tube, stepped headers are not a new design but an older design) were less costly to Dodge than the Belanger Headers, you may have the reason that Dodge selected them for the ACRX. This doesn't mean that the AR headers don't perform well, but as Dan Cragin says, you may be splitting hairs.

I do have it on good authority that Belanger Headers were used on the ACRX at Laguna Seca to set the record lap time, so one has to wonder why Dodge would switch headers for the production car.

I'm glad we still have the opportunity to choose the products we want to buy and hope it lasts .....

Dan

 

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

Gentlemen,

Here's my thoughts after reading all of our post's & comments. It's pretty kool to see that we all have a die hard passion about our Vipers, tuners, vendors & preffered performance product lines. I really respect that about our Viper Nation & see that the VCA provides a great venue for us to talk & debate all points of view.

I guarantee one common fact about us all ( when we see a Viper ACRX-Track for the very first time, run up on us at a track event, or in the pits getting tweaked, or at VOI, I bet we'll be picking up our jaws )!! It is the Best of the Best we would all agree that Viper has to date ever rolled off the assembly line after almost two decades of Venom.

Sorry guy's I can't resist, Check under the hood!!

RAT-TA TA TATT!
SEE YOU AT THE TRACK!!

 

[BAD BOYZZ GARAGE]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

Bad Boyzz Garage:

Why don't you use a flex joint used by the factory? Will not using it cause problems down the line?

The header replaces the factory flex pipe & primary cat locations. The headers long tubes snake their way into the tunnels and provide a very sound structure that supports the exhaust pipes from the turnouts to the end of the muffler where a hanger is placed for support & exhaust tip adjustments.

If installed correctly by rechecking fastners to ensure trq specs after a few heat cycles ( nice & tight ) your upgrades should be trouble free.

Great question Viperbilliam.

 

[PaViper]

Re: Whats better Balanger headers or ACRX headers?

When asked about what the SRT team did to prep the car for the record, they said that they just did some suspension adjustments and then "drove it onto the truck". I always took that to mean that it was a completely stock car. I know that I'd personally be a bit bothered if we found out that the car wasn't really a "production" car when it took the record...

I am curious about this as well, does anybody know the facts on this