ElDiablo Viper
Enthusiast
I'm wondering if DC will do anything in response to Ford GT adding 50 more HP. Also there is a rumor that in 05 Audi will bring their supercar with 600HP for ~100K.
When the next big change for SRT?
- Thread starter ElDiablo Viper
- Start date
fluffy
Enthusiast
They'd better. If there is nothing for '06, then the SRT will be playing third fiddle to the GT and the Z06. That would be an intolerable situation, especially considering the massive displacement advantage we enjoy.
Third fiddle? How? The Ford GT can't beat the SRT now..
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0401_vipandgt/index.html
and Chevy has a rep of "overstating" their cars performance.
fluffy
Enthusiast
MT apparently tested the 500hp version. The production GT is supposed to be 550 hp as tested by Car and Driver (I think it was them) where it ran an 11.6@128.
If the Z06 hits 500 Chevy won't have to overstate anything. Even if the Z06 only has 480 or 490hp it will still be enough to edge out the Viper.
Believe what you will, but DC needs to get working on some upgrades. 600hp should be the target by MY06 IMO.
SylvanSRT
Enthusiast
the 550 hp claim is new (w/in the last 2 wks)
fluffy
Enthusiast
No it wasn't. The numbers for the Viper were lifted straight from the high speed shootout in June, down to the 100th second and mph for the quarter. The GT was tested at a completely different time and under different conditions.
ElDiablo Viper
Enthusiast
Actually Motor Trend TV reported it plus their new commercial says that too.
Fluffy you've peeked my interest. I go to the Motor Trend mag and read..
(This is exactly the same article thats in the january issue)
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0401_vipandgt/index.html
They say that this is a "track test not a road test".On page two of the link above Motor Trend says "Although we attempt to keep things as equal as possible, our Viper was tested on what might have been a slightly grippier section of the test-track pavement." That leads me to believe that both cars are being tested at the same time.
However your right that the numbers are exactly the same as the June issue.
I guess we'll have to wait for production GTs' to come out for true head-to-head testing.
fluffy
Enthusiast
Possibly. I take it to mean that they realized that the pavement was stickier in the June heat. If they had tested them both at the same time, why not test them on the same stretch of track?
Something we can both agree on is that neck and neck is far too close. The Viper should destroy all comers. Come on, DC!!! Spend a little R&D on that 8.3 and give us some HP!!
I am joining the choir , and boy do we sound good at full voice. Oh, DC , hear us sing, we want the Snake to have the most bling-bling. So, up da power , we don't want no wall flower, and let's get the Vette and GT back to pushing up daisies. 600 hp is the figure we all lust after, we want to leave the others with so little power it's hardly worth our laughter. Build us a Snake of liters 8.3, a venomous beast that brings the rest to a bended knee. We have been the King ,and our voices all sing, let horsepower ring, build in some more bling-bling.
We want Mo-Powr, we want Mo-Par, we want Mo-Powr!!!
We want Mo-Powr, we want Mo-Par, we want Mo-Powr!!!
George Murray
Enthusiast
Competition is good for the breed.
I won't worry until they get close to my turbo Caravan...
I won't worry until they get close to my turbo Caravan...
Viperfreak2
Enthusiast
Turbo DIESEL Caravan....
Kai SRT10
Enthusiast
Look at the letters to the editor in the following issue. In response to a reader question regarding the performance numbers, the editor admits that the cars were not tested at the same time, and confirms that previous test numbers were used for the Viper.
Seems a bit ****** to me, as the article itself certainly was billed as a head to head contest.
Kai
SRT 10 2004
Enthusiast
not that it matters, but motor trend used the numbers from their 2003 viper, and called it the 2004, look at the pics, no red brake calipers=2003 model
Kai SRT10
Enthusiast
Notice that in the photos, the two cars don't ever even appear together, except in the one picture of the Viper's front fender and the GT's rear end, which looks suspiciously photoshopped, with the Viper's tires superimposed on the road.
Kai
SJT97GTS
Enthusiast
The Ford GT was not meant to compete with the SRT10. It was built to compete with Ferrari price range buyers. I hope the Viper is upped to 600hp, but I image the prices would be upped to $90-$100k.
At $100k, it would be in closer price range competition to the Ford GT -- and would manhandle both the GT and a 500hp Z06.
$70k is a huge difference when comparing the SRT ($80k) to the Ford GT ($150k). To me, the SRT is way too close in performance for someone to spend that extra $70k on a GT.
Use $30-$40k and TT your SRT...no comparison then!
PS-Not saying I wouldn't own a GT, but not at $150k...
At $100k, it would be in closer price range competition to the Ford GT -- and would manhandle both the GT and a 500hp Z06.
$70k is a huge difference when comparing the SRT ($80k) to the Ford GT ($150k). To me, the SRT is way too close in performance for someone to spend that extra $70k on a GT.
Use $30-$40k and TT your SRT...no comparison then!
PS-Not saying I wouldn't own a GT, but not at $150k...
Hisserman
Enthusiast
Good news, Sean, Ford announced that the price is now $140,000 (honest)! I know, still unrealistically high for most of us . . .
SJT97GTS
Enthusiast
Yes! At $140k, I'll take two! Woo Hoo!
Snakester
Enthusiast
It is decieving if they actually didn't run the two cars against one another because the article is written as if they were running head-to-head. 
There is a difference between the performance of the earlier Ford GTs and the later ones:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/11132003105848.pdf
The earlier prototypes were providing about the same performance as the SRT-10 Viper, and the later tests seem to add between 75 and 100HP to give it MUCH better performance.
I have also read the announcement that Ford's final power on the production GTs would be officially 550HP (and that's likely underrated). But they were looking at final durability and emissions testing with the Ford GTs with raised boost.
The list price may be $140K, but like the Ferrari 360 Spyder, Porsche GT2, and BMW Z8 I suspect that the actual purchase prices will be ranging between $160K-and $200K!
With all of that said, the Viper really needs a significant power boost to run with this new group of supercars.
With the high end of exotics like the Enzo, Porsche CGT, and SLR all being lightweight and spoting 600HP+, the Ford GT raising it's boost, and a 500HP AND 3100lb C6 Z06 looming, not to mention the possibility of a 500HP Mustang coming out in the same timeframe, The Viper needs to raise the performance bar.
I think that the SEMA "Carbon" Viper (shown as the ACR) is a very good idea of what is easily possible for the next generation Viper with N/A 625HP and 3200lbs.
I'm sure that PVO is well aware that the Viper MUST stay on top of the Corvette (or suffer the fate of the NSX), but I think that they will be carefully timing the news of the next power boost to the Viper (whether or not it comes in a new coupe body) either right before, or right after Chevy shows off the C6 Z06 and locks down the power/weight specs for sure at next year's Detroit auto show (Jan-'05).
Chrysler was able to keep their ME 412 a complete secret until it was unveiled, to everyone's surprise.
And I'm guessing that there will be a similar surprise due with the Viper as well.
-Dean.
There is a difference between the performance of the earlier Ford GTs and the later ones:
http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/download/11132003105848.pdf
The earlier prototypes were providing about the same performance as the SRT-10 Viper, and the later tests seem to add between 75 and 100HP to give it MUCH better performance.
I have also read the announcement that Ford's final power on the production GTs would be officially 550HP (and that's likely underrated). But they were looking at final durability and emissions testing with the Ford GTs with raised boost.
The list price may be $140K, but like the Ferrari 360 Spyder, Porsche GT2, and BMW Z8 I suspect that the actual purchase prices will be ranging between $160K-and $200K!
With all of that said, the Viper really needs a significant power boost to run with this new group of supercars.
With the high end of exotics like the Enzo, Porsche CGT, and SLR all being lightweight and spoting 600HP+, the Ford GT raising it's boost, and a 500HP AND 3100lb C6 Z06 looming, not to mention the possibility of a 500HP Mustang coming out in the same timeframe, The Viper needs to raise the performance bar.
I think that the SEMA "Carbon" Viper (shown as the ACR) is a very good idea of what is easily possible for the next generation Viper with N/A 625HP and 3200lbs.
I'm sure that PVO is well aware that the Viper MUST stay on top of the Corvette (or suffer the fate of the NSX), but I think that they will be carefully timing the news of the next power boost to the Viper (whether or not it comes in a new coupe body) either right before, or right after Chevy shows off the C6 Z06 and locks down the power/weight specs for sure at next year's Detroit auto show (Jan-'05).
Chrysler was able to keep their ME 412 a complete secret until it was unveiled, to everyone's surprise.
And I'm guessing that there will be a similar surprise due with the Viper as well.
-Dean.
Kai SRT10
Enthusiast
All the talk about changes to the SRT so far have revolved around horsepower. Fact is that horsepower upgrades are pretty easy to come by. Tweaks ranging from improved airflow to twin turbos can be had at any number of tuner shops for those who think their car is too slow. The big v-10 is a great platform for tuners. For a lot less than the price difference between the Viper and any of the other supercars, you can have a car that is faster than just about anything else on the planet with a little work. So, I'm really not that concerned about the Viper's lack of horsepower and speed. If I want it, I can get it. So far, I haven't felt the need.
Personally, the changes I would like to see are not horsepower related.
Here are the changes that I would like to see:
Seats that are adjustable in height. The forward-back adjustability is great on these cars, as is the pedal adjustment. However, you should have 1-3 inches of up and down (2 inches down, 1 inch up from stock) height adjustment in the stock seat. An inch of left-right pedal adjustment would be nice, too, for those of us with big feet.
"Sport hoops" that double as real roll bars. It's nuts that a car like the SRT-10 can't be taken to Viper days track events without an after-market roll bar. They need to beef up the stock hoops and make them "roll-worthy."
Taking this a step futher, make it easy to install a full aftermarket cage too, for those who want the full-on racer. The 2004 model has all the holes and cut-outs for the 6-point seatbelts making it easy to put this in. Just do the same thing for a cage, providing the reinforcements and cut-outs, so putting in a cage isn't such a huge production.
A better shift knob. The MGW first strike is SOOOO much better than the stock knob. It really should come standard.
Personally, the changes I would like to see are not horsepower related.
Here are the changes that I would like to see:
Seats that are adjustable in height. The forward-back adjustability is great on these cars, as is the pedal adjustment. However, you should have 1-3 inches of up and down (2 inches down, 1 inch up from stock) height adjustment in the stock seat. An inch of left-right pedal adjustment would be nice, too, for those of us with big feet.
"Sport hoops" that double as real roll bars. It's nuts that a car like the SRT-10 can't be taken to Viper days track events without an after-market roll bar. They need to beef up the stock hoops and make them "roll-worthy."
Taking this a step futher, make it easy to install a full aftermarket cage too, for those who want the full-on racer. The 2004 model has all the holes and cut-outs for the 6-point seatbelts making it easy to put this in. Just do the same thing for a cage, providing the reinforcements and cut-outs, so putting in a cage isn't such a huge production.
A better shift knob. The MGW first strike is SOOOO much better than the stock knob. It really should come standard.
There should be many changes made to the Viper in order to keep up with what seems to be the endless offerings of upcoming performance cars by manufacturers other than Dodge. Here are a couple of my opinions:
1. Offer a coupe with the same horsepower as the SRT and offer more horsepower if people want it on both the SRT and Coupe. Offer many of the SEMA show car options.
2. Add an option list (other than colors),so Viper buyers can make the cars more personalized to their own tastes. I like my Viper, but would have loved to have the opportunity to personalize my car. I think Dodge would sell more Vipers if they did this. It seems there are options available for just about every sports car, except VIPER.
3. The options should include many Interior, Exterior and Performance upgrades. There are plenty of Viper owners, including myself, that will gladly pay for options. On Dodges behalf, the options don't have to be overly complicated, like electronics and such.
Here are some examples I would like to see:
Interior:
Stainless Trim package (not the stick-on stuff), Carbon Fiber Trim Package, Colored stitching, Colored Seatbelts, Roll bar, Racing seats, 5 point harness, Two tone interior (like the Mamba) etc..
Exterior:
Stripes, Aero Package for SRT and the future coupe including rear spoiler, side and front splitters, maybe some lightweight body panels, choice of wheels, etc.
Performance:
A suspension upgrade package (street or Track), Factory horsepower upgrades (similar to the SEMA Car), Twin Turbo upgrade, Brake upgrade, Short throw shifter, and many more.
If Dodge is worried about the price of the Viper going up, they don't have to raise the price, just charge for options. If buyers want them, they will pay for them, just like every other sports car and super car out there. Viper owners already have one of the best sports cars on the market (both performance and price). If they want a super car, they will add options. Whatever the options cost, you can bet the Viper will be cheaper and be just as fast than any "supercar" that is currently out there or will be out there in the future. Dodge, you have the technology and knowhow , just get some b__ls and build us what we want,.....Please!!
1. Offer a coupe with the same horsepower as the SRT and offer more horsepower if people want it on both the SRT and Coupe. Offer many of the SEMA show car options.
2. Add an option list (other than colors),so Viper buyers can make the cars more personalized to their own tastes. I like my Viper, but would have loved to have the opportunity to personalize my car. I think Dodge would sell more Vipers if they did this. It seems there are options available for just about every sports car, except VIPER.
3. The options should include many Interior, Exterior and Performance upgrades. There are plenty of Viper owners, including myself, that will gladly pay for options. On Dodges behalf, the options don't have to be overly complicated, like electronics and such.
Here are some examples I would like to see:
Interior:
Stainless Trim package (not the stick-on stuff), Carbon Fiber Trim Package, Colored stitching, Colored Seatbelts, Roll bar, Racing seats, 5 point harness, Two tone interior (like the Mamba) etc..
Exterior:
Stripes, Aero Package for SRT and the future coupe including rear spoiler, side and front splitters, maybe some lightweight body panels, choice of wheels, etc.
Performance:
A suspension upgrade package (street or Track), Factory horsepower upgrades (similar to the SEMA Car), Twin Turbo upgrade, Brake upgrade, Short throw shifter, and many more.
If Dodge is worried about the price of the Viper going up, they don't have to raise the price, just charge for options. If buyers want them, they will pay for them, just like every other sports car and super car out there. Viper owners already have one of the best sports cars on the market (both performance and price). If they want a super car, they will add options. Whatever the options cost, you can bet the Viper will be cheaper and be just as fast than any "supercar" that is currently out there or will be out there in the future. Dodge, you have the technology and knowhow , just get some b__ls and build us what we want,.....Please!!
Hirohawa
Enthusiast
The GT is also a hands down winner in terms of styling. I hope that DC makes a coupe that looks like the concept car from 2000 with 600BHP and weighing in at 3000lbs.
It is sad that DCs most powerful car is not the Viper. Look how many MBs have more Horsepower than the new SRT 10 - the new AMG CL65 is a Twin Turbo V12 with 615bhp and IIRC 700+lbs of torque! This engine setup will be available with the new SL soon. And the new SLR is a SC 8 cylinder cranking out 600+hp. Maybe they need to send the Viper over to AMG for a factory performance solution.
DC needs to get on the ball and make the Viper a priority again, with better styling and power. People are already getting rid of 03 Vipers with big losses, this was unheard of when the RT/10 first debuted.
When the Viper came out in 1992 it dethroned the Corvette as King of the Hill.
2005 looks like there will be a new King of the Hill. All hail theFord GT.
Wake up DC and make the Viper the performance flagship for the company not the SLR.
It is sad that DCs most powerful car is not the Viper. Look how many MBs have more Horsepower than the new SRT 10 - the new AMG CL65 is a Twin Turbo V12 with 615bhp and IIRC 700+lbs of torque! This engine setup will be available with the new SL soon. And the new SLR is a SC 8 cylinder cranking out 600+hp. Maybe they need to send the Viper over to AMG for a factory performance solution.
DC needs to get on the ball and make the Viper a priority again, with better styling and power. People are already getting rid of 03 Vipers with big losses, this was unheard of when the RT/10 first debuted.
When the Viper came out in 1992 it dethroned the Corvette as King of the Hill.
2005 looks like there will be a new King of the Hill. All hail theFord GT.
Wake up DC and make the Viper the performance flagship for the company not the SLR.
matt lankford
Enthusiast
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the gt was recently dynoed and put 565hp to the wheels. i have a feeling a pulley change and computer tuning will net another 100rwhp
Viperfreak2
Enthusiast
565 to the wheels? on whose dyno, Fords? If that were true, 550 engine hp would be a gross under-rating. Your talking 650 at the crank!
ACRJUD
Enthusiast
I doubt the ford GT will have 560 wheel hp. Im sure the new coupe viper will get a hp upgrade just like in 96.
Word on the street is that the C6 Zo6 will have 500hp and weigh between 2700-2800 pounds.
Chevy might also make the Blue devil will sould have between 650-750hp but I hear it will be around 100 grand. If they make it.
Word on the street is that the C6 Zo6 will have 500hp and weigh between 2700-2800 pounds.
Chevy might also make the Blue devil will sould have between 650-750hp but I hear it will be around 100 grand. If they make it.
fluffy
Enthusiast
The C6 only dropped 50 lbs or so from the coupe, I seriously doubt that the Z06 will somehow drop an additional 400 - 500 lbs off of that. No way. Maybe 3000lbs.
Try here > http://www.f150online.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=149431
The Suavy guy is supposed to be an engineer on the build team.
Viperbran,
Options on a low volume production car equals huge $$$$!
Understanding a bit (VERY little) about the red tape involved in manufacturing automobiles, each and every accessory must be put through lots of legal, safety and DOT/emmissions testing. Each color change, both interior and exterior also involves mucho work!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the important aspects of our Viper passion, is the logical cost factor (can anyone say bang for the buck?) that our Vipers bring to us. We are driving an ultimate performance supercar (just read Motor Trend's test against the Ford GT, or any number of other Magazine comparison tests against even non-street legal track cars!) at a VERY modest cost (compared to all supercars that are anywhere in our specification league), with a heckuva unbeatable warranty to boot!
I believe what most Viper owners want is unbelievable horsepower and torque, but at the same LOGICAL, no brainer price point that has made us smile over this last "Viper Decade".... AND be able to debate the true superiority of the Viper to all those that we speak to who are unfortunately not yet behind our King of the Hill Snakes!
Keep the horsepower high, the price low, leave the "options" up to our creative, and passionate, Viper oriented aftermarket vendors, and make our next Viper faster, more trackworthy (is that even possible?) and absolutely on the fringe of being street legal because of its' bold, track oriented configuration of horsepower, handling, weight and durability!
Options on a low volume production car equals huge $$$$!
Understanding a bit (VERY little) about the red tape involved in manufacturing automobiles, each and every accessory must be put through lots of legal, safety and DOT/emmissions testing. Each color change, both interior and exterior also involves mucho work!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the important aspects of our Viper passion, is the logical cost factor (can anyone say bang for the buck?) that our Vipers bring to us. We are driving an ultimate performance supercar (just read Motor Trend's test against the Ford GT, or any number of other Magazine comparison tests against even non-street legal track cars!) at a VERY modest cost (compared to all supercars that are anywhere in our specification league), with a heckuva unbeatable warranty to boot!
I believe what most Viper owners want is unbelievable horsepower and torque, but at the same LOGICAL, no brainer price point that has made us smile over this last "Viper Decade".... AND be able to debate the true superiority of the Viper to all those that we speak to who are unfortunately not yet behind our King of the Hill Snakes!
Keep the horsepower high, the price low, leave the "options" up to our creative, and passionate, Viper oriented aftermarket vendors, and make our next Viper faster, more trackworthy (is that even possible?) and absolutely on the fringe of being street legal because of its' bold, track oriented configuration of horsepower, handling, weight and durability!
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