Where are the reassurances?

[steve911]

I want to start this out by stating that this is NOT meant to be sarcastisic in any way shape or form. I repeat this is not meant to be sarcastic.

Unless I have missed the posts, I have not read any messages recently by the National VCA officers reassuring us all that Viper will remain.

For the past several months we have been advised basically to remain calm and the issues surrounding the continuation of Viper will work themselves out.

The silence is deafening. Some how I feel the lack of any updates by our officers is not a good sign.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled activities.

 

[ViperGeorge]

I've posted under a different thread "A thought for Chuck" that I think we need to be doing something to save Tator's and the Viper. Years ago the Mustang Club of America launched a campaign to save the Mustang. Because of the response of the club the Mustang was preserved in its current rear drive form. Heck the Mustang is probably the reason that Ford isn't in the same boat as GM and Chrysler. Why can't we do something similar to save the Viper? Fiat should listen if we speak loudly enough.

 

[WANTED]

I was ready to make a post on the same
subject and glad I read this pryor to doing
so. I feel the same, so now what VCA you
have told all of us you could not talk about
it, CAN YOU TALK NOW ?????????????

It's very frustrating for alot of us just
sitting on the side waiting. IMHO no
sale is forth coming and it's a guess as
to what will really happen with the VIPER
in the future.

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

I just tried to order a brochure on the 2009 Viper of Chrysler Canada's website and it is not even available neither is the option to build you own car....this does not bode well.....I don't like what I am seeing as it appears that this story could be near the end.

 

[ViperGal]

Quiet period?

 

[ViperGeorge]

Thankfully the Viper is still on the US Dodge site. I can still build my own but how long will it last if we stand by and let things take their course? I've had 4 Vipers (currently have two) and I would love to have a third. I've also got two Jeeps and have been thinking about a Challenger. If Fiat kills Viper I'll go back to Ford and I'll never buy a Ferrari and certainly never a Fiat. Unless ofcourse they preserve Viper.

 

[ViperGeorge]

I guess we're at a crossroads. We either move to save the Viper or we don't. I love this car and I've had great times with this club. Recently I won an auction of original concept designs for the Gen 5 car. Ralph Giles signed the designs and they are awesome. Hopefully this car or something even better will see the light of day but this is a pipe dream unless we do something. As for me I will write a letter to the CEO of Chrysler in a feeble attempt to express my passion. Maybe more of you will follow suit or maybe our club leadership will lead and help us all take action.

 

[AZMotorgod]

I too would love answers but I wonder if ANYONE can give them. I am only on my first Viper, a GTS but I would love to pickup a Gen IV vert someday. But I am wondering now if I will ever get the chance.

My guess is that Ford had a different situation on it's hands with the Mustang. If they were deciding whether or not to kill it, it's my guess that it would have been THEIR decision.

Due to the financial mess that Chrysler is in, they might not have any choice and may be forced to sell or (heaven forbid) liquidate Viper.

My hope, and maybe a small glimmer in an otherwise dismal situation is possibly any thoughts from the powers at VCA as to whether or not they have come to any conclusions on whether or not they will continue the club, magazine, VOIs, etc... if the Viper does get discontinued.

 

[ViperGeorge]

The business case for thr Viper has to be strong. Many Viper owners have multiple Chrysler products. We have been driven to own other Chrysler vehicles by our passion for the Viper. I am not prepared to give up on the Viper, the Club, or Chrysler. Fiat has to understand this if we present the argument but we need help to do this in the most effective way.

 

[99 R/T 10]

No offense to the VCA officers, but they don't know what the hell is going on either. We are all in the same boat and we all want the same thing. Either the Viper dies a proper death or it move on to the next level. We all know that there is no next level with this government we have now,so let it die with dignity.

 

[RoadiJeff]

I'm still waiting for the "<wink, wink> We can't tell you right now but wait until June 8" surprise announcement that will guarantee the future of the Viper.

It's now June 13.

 

[Warfang]

I asked similar questions to Herb in the GK forums.... waiting for a response. I still have some patience... not a whole lot, but there's really not much for us to do. It's out of our hands now.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

No fair posting after bedtime! First off, there weren't too many "THE SKY IS FALLING!" posts (other than the "Hemi" one) so we didn't think we needed to jump in with any reassurances. Indeed, a misplaced reassurance can often do more harm than good: Telling a perfectly healthy person that they "should probably be just fine" sets off all kinds of alarms if they hadn't even asked.

Now since you actually asked, here is an update/commentary we can give without violating any agreements we have in place:

1. Just a few days ago NOBODY - not even at Fiat or Chrysler, knew what would happen with the company, much less the Viper. Appeals, Supreme Court, yada yada. While I personally think we are pretty good, if anybody honestly expected us to have the scoop on those rulings and which way it would fall - not a chance.
2. NOT ONE national officer said anything about June 8th as it meant NOTHING to the Viper as far as we knew - no winks, no nudges. The conjecture flew and we had nothing we could publicly say to contradict it.
3. When the Fiat acquisition was signed just three days ago there followed several stories about "the Viper lives - for now" as part of the deal. We figured that was probably enough to keep people happy - for now.
4. We have NDA's in place that may or may not currently apply. Regardless, we must respect the manufacturer and not speak out of turn. The VCA has a LOT at stake going forward assuming the car does. We aren't going to risk that by violating the confidences to which we have been entrusted. Rest assured it is extremely painful not to be able to say anything - especially to the members that rightfully expect it. However if we want the considerations of the past to still come to the VCA in the future, we simply must honor those confidences today.
5. This is a totally unique time in the history of the car and of the club. No group of officers has ever faced the possible demise of the very car the club represents. Sure, similar rumors have been around forever - but not backed up with the platform being put up for sale, the manufacturer declaring bankruptcy, etc. We are doing the very best we can under the restrictions that have been placed upon us.
6. They did not make a 2009 brochure and you could never order one. The cars are readily available to be ordered (and thus will be built). I know as I personally ordered our next raffle car this past Monday - and already have the VIN.
7. "The Viper generated a 2008 profit of $16 million before taxes, interest, depreciation and amortization, Chrysler said in court documents", according to a recent Bloomberg article. Seems like it already makes a decent business case - profitability.
8. The VCA will continue on regardless of what happens with Viper production. Indeed, I expect we could actually grow as more people would seek to network for parts, memorabilia, get-togethers, etc. The VCA is the least of our worries right now as we are positioned very, very well for the future no matter what happens.
9. And finally, lest you feel you waded through this post with absolutely no payoff whatsoever, here you go: We are talking with Chrysler execs regularly, right up to the CEO level - this week included. They value the Viper and they value the VCA. One of the very, very top guys drives a Viper almost daily. Discussions regarding the platform are ongoing, potential buyers are still circling. No caskets on order that we know of.

And that, my friends, is about all we can say for now. No winks, no nudges - but a pretty good dose of cautious optimism if you care to accept it.

Respectfully submitted,

Chris

 

[Warfang]

Another excellent post, sir. For what it's worth, I never got a sense of the wink/nudge we got from the past. That is a lesson well learned.

That said, I do have to remind you the cons of being the guy in charge during tumultuous times. Everything leadership does will be scrutinized by everyone. Fair or not, it's on you... and I'd hate to paint you as Nero. You know the masses here are ready to tear anything apart... I can't say I don't feel the same way.

Good luck to you and your merry men. Let's hope you're all Winston Churchills and not fiddlers.

Long live the Viper!

No fair posting after bedtime! First off, there weren't too many "THE SKY IS FALLING!" posts (other than the "Hemi" one) so we didn't think we needed to jump in with any reassurances. Indeed, a misplaced reassurance can often do more harm than good: Telling a perfectly healthy person that they "should probably be just fine" sets off all kinds of alarms if they hadn't even asked.

Now since you actually asked, here is an update/commentary we can give without violating any agreements we have in place:

1. Just a few days ago NOBODY - not even at Fiat or Chrysler, knew what would happen with the company, much less the Viper. Appeals, Supreme Court, yada yada. While I personally think we are pretty good, if anybody honestly expected us to have the scoop on those rulings and which way it would fall - not a chance.
2. NOT ONE national officer said anything about June 8th as it meant NOTHING to the Viper as far as we knew - no winks, no nudges. The conjecture flew and we had nothing we could publicly say to contradict it.
3. When the Fiat acquisition was signed just three days ago there followed several stories about "the Viper lives - for now" as part of the deal. We figured that was probably enough to keep people happy - for now.
4. We have NDA's in place that may or may not currently apply. Regardless, we must respect the manufacturer and not speak out of turn. The VCA has a LOT at stake going forward assuming the car does. We aren't going to risk that by violating the confidences to which we have been entrusted. Rest assured it is extremely painful not to be able to say anything - especially to the members that rightfully expect it. However if we want the considerations of the past to still come to the VCA in the future, we simply must honor those confidences today.
5. This is a totally unique time in the history of the car and of the club. No group of officers has ever faced the possible demise of the very car the club represents. Sure, similar rumors have been around forever - but not backed up with the platform being put up for sale, the manufacturer declaring bankruptcy, etc. We are doing the very best we can under the restrictions that have been placed upon us.
6. They did not make a 2009 brochure and you could never order one. The cars are readily available to be ordered (and thus will be built). I know as I personally ordered our next raffle car this past Monday - and already have the VIN.
7. "The Viper generated a 2008 profit of $16 million before taxes, interest, depreciation and amortization, Chrysler said in court documents", according to a recent Bloomberg article. Seems like it already makes a decent business case - profitability.
8. The VCA will continue on regardless of what happens with Viper production. Indeed, I expect we could actually grow as more people would seek to network for parts, memorabilia, get-togethers, etc. The VCA is the least of our worries right now as we are positioned very, very well for the future no matter what happens.
9. And finally, lest you feel you waded through this post with absolutely no payoff whatsoever, here you go: We are talking with Chrysler execs regularly, right up to the CEO level - this week included. They value the Viper and they value the VCA. One of the very, very top guys drives a Viper almost daily. Discussions regarding the platform are ongoing, potential buyers are still circling. No caskets on order that we know of.

And that, my friends, is about all we can say for now. No winks, no nudges - but a pretty good dose of cautious optimism if you care to accept it.

Respectfully submitted,

Chris

 

[GBS]

At this point everyone is just speculating about Viper’s future. Now it’s in the hands of Fiat. VCA, the press or anyone outside of Fiat top management don’t really know what’s going to happen to the Viper. Even Fiat’s current plans about the car could change. As much as most of us Viper owners who care about the car would like to know what’s in its future there’s nothing we can do but wait and see what happens.

 

[ViperGeorge]

Chris,

Thanks for the post but I would ask you is there nothing else that the VCA membership can do to cement the future of the Viper platform? Would the new CEO dismiss 10,000 letters sent by loyal Viper owners? Could he dismiss these letters if we collectively included a run down of the Chrysler (and yes Ferrari) products we own? While I am certain that club leadership has repeatedly told both present and past management of our passion, the NDAs surely don't prohibit the rest of the club from communicating our desires to management. I would never ask the VCA leadership to violate any confidences entrusted to them under these NDAs, however, would not the voices of 10,000 speak louder than just those of our leadership?

I plan to send the CEO a letter describing why I believe Viper should continue and why it should continue as a Dodge. Fiat clearly understands the value of a high performance sports car or they would not have bought Ferrari or Maserati. They don't even seem to be worried about a little badge engineering (Enzo and that Masarati M12 thing). They also must appreciate that the Viper does not reduce the sales of Ferrari any more than Maserati does.

Realistically though my single letter will do nothing - but the club, if we run a well executed grass roots campaign, might just influence Fiat enough to insure the Viper continues. I'm also hoping that President Obama will allow free enterprise to continue and therefore not interfere with the prodcut decisions of the new Chrysler. If he does I'm living in the wrong country and Fiat will be convinced they made a mistake coming to Chrysler's rescue.

Also reespectfully submitted,

George

 

[steve911]

Chris,

thanks for the response. I like being updated regularly even if there may not be sunstantive information to pass along.

With regards to your comment though about only three days passing since the "merger" ( insinuating that there hasn't been lot of time to make progress), I have to add the I received in the mail from Chrysler 2 days after the merger a letter talking up the benfits of the merger that just occured, thanking me for my past purchases from Chrysler and a coupon for a 1000.00 off the purchase of a select Dodge or Chrysler vehicle.

I say this only that Chrysler has been planning for any one of a number of scenarios to occur and I am sure that Viper has been a part of those plans.

Do you know if the parts pipeline will improve now? To kill some time I ran lots of common Gen 3 & 4 random part numbers through Dealer connect and saw there were no assets to be had in the warehouses.

thanks

 

[Y2K5SRT]

With regards to your comment though about only three days passing since the "merger" ( insinuating that there hasn't been lot of time to make progress), I have to add the I received in the mail from Chrysler 2 days after the merger a letter talking up the benfits of the merger that just occured, thanking me for my past purchases from Chrysler and a coupon for a 1000.00 off the purchase of a select Dodge or Chrysler vehicle.

We got the same thing and noted it didn't count the merger as done, was signed by the ex-CEO (Nardelli), and was dated in May. Still pretty presumptive by them nonetheless.

As for the ongoing parts supply, we can only assume that is part of the overall platform disposition - we haven't heard anything specific about it yet.

George - By all means feel free to start that grassroots effort to save the Viper through a letter writing campaign. The VCA brass needs to walk a fine line promoting it specifically as such letters can invariably involve a heated one or two that reflects less than well on the club itself. For example, "Dear Dumb*ss- Don't be stupid - build the Viper forever or I will run over your cat! The VCA told me to write you." You will note that we took a similar stance on Tator: We worked behind the scenes to help as much as we could, but did not jump in the threads suggesting boycotts, etc. Again, we have to be very careful on our public position.

Warfang - So at VOI 10 in Detroit we had just arrived and the four officers were called into a meeting with the Chrysler brass to inform us of selling the Viper platform. Yours Truly immediately asked Bob Carroll if he would like to stay on as President. He declined.

In all seriousness, each and every one of us had a pretty good idea of what we were getting into early on. As has been pointed out several times before, the vast majority is simply beyond our control. That said, we are involving ourselves as much as is humanly possible - I have already had two platform calls this morning (Saturday) with folks that are involved outside of the VCA. We honestly don't know where it will end up at this point. All we know is that we have very carefully positioned the VCA and its members to be a part of the Viper's future, even if only as a "support group" for a discontinued model. Needless to say, we are very hopeful that it doesn't come to the latter.

 

[InjectTheVenom]

Like I said before in a different topic, Fiat would be extremely stupid to kill the Viper knowing that there is a Lamborghini connection with the original RT/10.
If they choose to preserve Viper, and with enough smartness they will, it would be the ultimate way to get back at the brand that was originally started by a Ferrari customer who was extremely displeased with Ferrari customer service.
With that last thing in mind, it IS a stupid move to cancel the Hemi.

 

[plumcrazy]

i just dont understand why ya'll need this info so badly. i dont even know why you guys really care so much....

I also dont understand why you guys need reassurance, it not like dodge is supposed to report you guys.

im obviously wrong.

 

[ViperGeorge]

I'm not looking for information or reassurances, I'm trying to come up with a way of influencing Fiat management to keep the Viper. Every successful company I know listens to their customers so why wouldn't Fiat? I'm glad our club's leadership has been in touch with Fiat and Chrysler's new management but I believe there is power in numbers. Maybe a petition or something would work.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

I believe there is power in numbers. Maybe a petition or something would work.

Better sooner than later...

(a wink just for you Warfang - but no nudge).

 

[Warfang]

Better sooner than later...

(a wink just for you Warfang - but no nudge).

I'm in San Francisco... winking at a guy means a whole lot different than in KS.

 

[Bobpantax]

I'd say the "or something" would be a large number of orders for the car. The problem is that for quite some time the circumstances have created a marketing problem. I have communicated with a number of potential buyers who said that they would buy if they knew, with certainty, that the Viper was going to continue. So the current status creates a viscious cycle. The New Chrysler people need to realize that there may be pent up demand out there for the car and all it needs fo it to be released is an announcement from them that the car will definitely be continued. In the alternative, they need to get a sale of the Viper Enterprise done before the delay hurts sales and price stability more than it already has. The bottom line appears to be that the Viper Enterprise is, from a dollar point of view, such a small part of the New Chrysler, that I doubt that anyone feels any urgency to do anything quickly other than take orders for the car and build them without clarifying the future status of the Viper. So, how about a friendly rally by all the Vipers within two hundred miles or so of the New Chrysler headquarters ( of course anyone else could also bring their Viper) with placards, etc. saying "SAVE THE VIPER", " AMERICAN MUSCLE FOREVER!!", "MY VIPER GETS BETTER GAS MILEAGE THAN YOUR SUV", etc. The national news would pick it up if it was announced ahead of time. All the placards should have the American flag in the background. I think such a rally would have a significant impact on the decision makers. The last thing Fiat needs now is to be viewed as "UNAMERICAN". So, if failing to save the Viper or find it a good home quickly is perceived as Fiat being UNAMERICAN, they could, by their inaction, cause themselves a significant marketing headache.

 

[Sittingbull101]

I'll never buy a Ferrari
Never say never.

 

[Warfang]

I'd say the "or something" would be a large number of orders for the car. The problem is that for quite some time the circumstances have created a marketing problem. I have communicated with a number of potential buyers who said that they would buy if they knew, with certainty, that the Viper was going to continue. So the current status creates a viscious cycle. The New Chrysler people need to realize that there may be pent up demand out there for the car and all it needs fo it to be released is an announcement from them that the car will definitely be continued. In the alternative, they need to get a sale of the Viper Enterprise done before the delay hurts sales and price stability more than it already has. The bottom line appears to be that the Viper Enterprise is, from a dollar point of view, such a small part of the New Chrysler, that I doubt that anyone feels any urgency to do anything quickly other than take orders for the car and build them without clarifying the future status of the Viper. So, how about a friendly rally by all the Vipers within two hundred miles or so of the New Chrysler headquarters ( of course anyone else could also bring their Viper) with placards, etc. saying "SAVE THE VIPER", " AMERICAN MUSCLE FOREVER!!", "MY VIPER GETS BETTER GAS MILEAGE THAN YOUR SUV", etc. The national news would pick it up if it was announced ahead of time. All the placards should have the American flag in the background. I think such a rally would have a significant impact on the decision makers. The last thing Fiat needs now is to be viewed as "UNAMERICAN". So, if failing to save the Viper or find it a good home quickly is perceived as Fiat being UNAMERICAN, they could, by their inaction, cause themselves a significant marketing headache.

It's hard to believe the Viper has even sold at all considering DC then Cerberus has treated the Viper a the ugly stepchild for the last 5-7 years. Barely an ad mentioning the Viper. Even a recent Chrysler branding commercial where they drive their "entire" lineup on screen... no Viper to be seen.

 

[Mopar488]

I still have my Viper and I am being more particular with it than ever, not knowing the future of it or parts, service, etc. I received the same letter from Nardelli promising warranty, etc. Considering everything recently, we bought my wife a Mustang GT vert. I really don't feel right buying a Fiat/Chrysler. I am old enough that I was around in the 70's to see what Fiat was then and I just can't stand the thought of them in control of Chrysler.

 

[ViperGeorge]

Bobpantax, I'm in MA but would drive to Detroit to be part of the rally you describe. In reality we just had one there for old management (VOI 10). I think at this point, particularly given Chris' ominous post above "better sooner than later, that we should open up a petition thread here in the General Discussion area. We should ask everyone to sign the thread and indicate how many Chrysler products they currently have and how many they have bought over the years. We can then send the thread to Fiat/New Chrysler. I'll take a shot at writing something to post later.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

given Chris' ominous post above "better sooner than later

Actually, I wrote that with optimism more than anything else...

 

[Warfang]

Actually, I wrote that with optimism more than anything else...

You can tell there was optimism by the twinkle in his eye as he winked.