Why I think the GTS will be $125,000

[mnc2886]

This forum section has been a little dull so I thought I'd do some fun math. For anyone curious...no I don't have a financial background, but I do fiddle with some financial stuff for work. So, here is some fun math. All assumed by the way.

48 Month Run of 1800 Units Per Year
Intial Development Cost - $120,000,000 (based off inflation from the $50,000,000 budget for the Gen I + Inflation + higher alotment for development)
W.A.C.C. - 12%
G&A - 12%
Monthly Operating Costs (Includes Build Cost [50% and 5% budgeted for warranty claims]) - $8.268MM
Escalation of Operating Costs - 2%
Average Sale - $105,000 (assumes 2/3 sales consist of base price SRT @ $95k and 1/3 sales consist of GTS sales price of $125k)

All this jibberish equates to a 34.79% IRR and $70,234,054 NPV before taxes, if all 1800 units for 48 months sell. I just assumed Fiat wants a 25-30% IRR since Ralph has mentioned the need for the Gen V to make money, unlike prior generations.

Again, I don't have a financial background. If anyone does, I'd love to hear what you think.

 

[Newport Viper]

I think they should release the Vert. ASAP!!!!!! I live in SoCal and still have hair.

 

[Jog]

You forgot to carry over the "1" in your calculations........LOL!

 

[mnc2886]

You forgot to carry over the "1" in your calculations........LOL!

HAHA!! Actually, I really wanted to create this thread for reference when the real price is announced. So, one more time....

$95,000 Base SRT
$125,000 Fully Optioned GTS

 

[bad viper]

Think 125 is about right with modest options.
They'll charge it if they can!

 

[George Farris]

Base is about right at $95K.

Little high on the Loaded GTS.

Less than $120K.

 

[mnc2886]

Base is about right at $95K.

Little high on the Loaded GTS.

Less than $120K.

I hope you're right. Ralph said it didn't need to make very much. Maybe the GTS will be $115k. However, he has made comments in several interviews that seemed aimed at bracing us for a higher price.

 

[Allan]

Why shouldn't it be 125K + ?..... If the new car is as great as all the hype, looks stunning, is reliable, and is competing with and going after a higher end market, why would it be a discount supercar? Fully loaded ZR1's are around 130K, why should the Viper be so much less? Ferrari's are more than that, and there is a waiting list for those things. They dropped the 'Dodge' moniker so now you aren't buying an overpriced Dodge, your buying an 'SRT' brand exclusive supercar. If the product is 'worth it' , then why would it have to be some ghetto low-buck bargain basement discount ride. -For guys that couldn't afford the Corvette?

 

[BigDawg]

Why shouldn't it be 125K + ?..... If the new car is as great as all the hype, looks stunning, is reliable, and is competing with and going after a higher end market, why would it be a discount supercar? Fully loaded ZR1's are around 130K, why should the Viper be so much less? Ferrari's are more than that, and there is a waiting list for those things. They dropped the 'Dodge' moniker so now you aren't buying an overpriced Dodge, your buying an 'SRT' brand exclusive supercar. If the product is 'worth it' , then why would it have to be some ghetto low-buck bargain basement discount ride. -For guys that couldn't afford the Corvette?

The Viper is a great entry level exotic, it's about $500k short of being an entry level supercar. I appreciate your passion, but let's be realistic here. The answer to your question is "dance with the one that brung ya". It basically means stick with the formula the created your success. Deviate too far and you'll shoot yourself. The Viper has always been a bargain American exotic. Who gives a **** what the ZR1 costs. The ZR1 isn't even an exotic, it's just a fast sports car that hardly looks different from the $50k base. As far as Ferrari and the rest of the pack, the Viper really doesn't compete with any of them, nor does it (will it) steal their buyers away. Sure there are some exceptions. The Viper tyically appeals to a very small niche market, this couldn't be more evident in the magazines overall distaste for the car. Even when they give it respect, they still through back door condescending remarks in. That is the Viper.

 

[mnc2886]

The Viper is a great entry level exotic, it's about $500k short of being an entry level supercar. I appreciate your passion, but let's be realistic here. The answer to your question is "dance with the one that brung ya". It basically means stick with the formula the created your success. Deviate too far and you'll shoot yourself. The Viper has always been a bargain American exotic. Who gives a **** what the ZR1 costs. The ZR1 isn't even an exotic, it's just a fast sports car that hardly looks different from the $50k base. As far as Ferrari and the rest of the pack, the Viper really doesn't compete with any of them, nor does it (will it) steal their buyers away. Sure there are some exceptions. The Viper tyically appeals to a very small niche market, this couldn't be more evident in the magazines overall distaste for the car. Even when they give it respect, they still through back door condescending remarks in. That is the Viper.

Don't forget to mention that comparison to a ZR1 is futile because those things didn't sell until they were discounted hard.

 

[Alabaster Mamba]

The Viper is a great entry level exotic, it's about $500k short of being an entry level supercar. I appreciate your passion, but let's be realistic here. The answer to your question is "dance with the one that brung ya". It basically means stick with the formula the created your success. Deviate too far and you'll shoot yourself. The Viper has always been a bargain American exotic. Who gives a **** what the ZR1 costs. The ZR1 isn't even an exotic, it's just a fast sports car that hardly looks different from the $50k base. As far as Ferrari and the rest of the pack, the Viper really doesn't compete with any of them, nor does it (will it) steal their buyers away. Sure there are some exceptions. The Viper tyically appeals to a very small niche market, this couldn't be more evident in the magazines overall distaste for the car. Even when they give it respect, they still through back door condescending remarks in. That is the Viper.

I agree 100% with Allan about the pricing of the Viper. SRT is not making the Viper to have incredible performance specs only to give the car away. That is why they have different models to choose from. In fact, with the new marketing of Viper and new enhancements, they are looking to increase the visibility of the car to more potential buyers. And as for the part about comparing it to the ZR1? Why would SRT leave money on the table? The Viper is an incredible car and as such is not going to be given away as some people would hope. There are new targets to add to the demographic of the potential new Viper owner that SRT is looking to add. They are looking to add an upscale appearance as well as incredible interior to appeal to this new buyer base as well as include the buyers who already have fallen in love with the Viper. Case in point, you will always have people that love Corvettes. Some will have to buy the base model to get one while others can upgrade to the Z06 or step up even more so into a ZR1.

Basically what Allan is saying is "Why water it down when you can command a better price for a better product.".

 

[Alabaster Mamba]

Don't forget to mention that comparison to a ZR1 is futile because those things didn't sell until they were discounted hard.

They sold plenty at MSRP. GM did just like every other manufacturer and that is to discount them after the initial group of buyers bought theirs and the newness wore off. Shoot, a fully loaded Z06 right now is close to $100k.

 

[Smog Dog]

This forum section has been a little dull so I thought I'd do some fun math. For anyone curious...no I don't have a financial background, but I do fiddle with some financial stuff for work. So, here is some fun math. All assumed by the way.


Average Sale - $105,000 (assumes 2/3 sales consist of base price SRT @ $95k and 1/3 sales consist of GTS sales price of $125k)

Interesting fun. I think the SRT price will be 100K with zero options. I also think GTS sales will be 2/3 or slightly more of total Viper sales. I think the 125K price for the GTS could be about right with some options. Base GTS price will be less.

Bill

 

[Paul Hawker]

Are you guys talking about sticker price or street price?

Over the Viper's history, sometimes it sells for over sticker, and sometimes under sticker.

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

137k for a fully loaded GTS MSRP

 

[shooter_t1]

137k for a fully loaded GTS MSRP

This. Before the gouge pricing (MAP) starts.

 

[Smog Dog]

137k for a fully loaded GTS MSRP

Wouldn't surprise me at all---fully loaded.

Bill

 

[BlknBlu]

the car will be more because of the interior. period.

Bruce

 

[SADVIPER]

HAHA!! Actually, I really wanted to create this thread for reference when the real price is announced. So, one more time....

$95,000 Base SRT
$125,000 Fully Optioned GTS

I'd pay that in a blink for fully optioned GTS.







but it's never gonna be 125!

 

[commandomatt]

I'd pay that in a blink for fully optioned GTS.







but it's never gonna be 125!

You would pay 125 in a 'blink' but not consider 135 or 137.........?

If someone is willing to buy something for 125K, then another 10K is really not a big deal.

Its not all about the price. If the car is as good as promised....it will sell.

Matt

 

[ferraritoviper]

137k for a fully loaded GTS MSRP

I guessed $150k+ for me loaded...after various taxes, headers and a custom paint job

 

[terminator02]

Why shouldn't it be 125K + ?..... If the new car is as great as all the hype, looks stunning, is reliable, and is competing with and going after a higher end market, why would it be a discount supercar? Fully loaded ZR1's are around 130K, why should the Viper be so much less? Ferrari's are more than that, and there is a waiting list for those things. They dropped the 'Dodge' moniker so now you aren't buying an overpriced Dodge, your buying an 'SRT' brand exclusive supercar. If the product is 'worth it' , then why would it have to be some ghetto low-buck bargain basement discount ride. -For guys that couldn't afford the Corvette?

So with this logic are you cool with the GTS being 200K? It therefore is still a bargain compared to the Ferrari's of the world and is not a "bargain basement dodge." Since the ZR1s (which are still 50k vettes with adjustments) go for 120+ shouldn't the viper still be a baragin at 200K?

At the end of the day you and the OP and everyone else are griping over a difference of 10K. Ferrari owners are laughing at this and I think if anyone has to complain about a car being 115k or 125k shoudn't even consider buying the vehicle. After all, at this performance, world class interior, exclusive design, heritage and rarity....who cares about 10,000 bucks.

U mad?

 

[Newport Viper]

Wouldn't it be better logic in the economy we are in, to price it super, super low ($75ish-80?) and steal future Corvette (Z06, ZR1) sales all day long? Or, is the Viper owner base really that good for a 1,000 sales a year + 800 ++ newbies in this market, year after year, at $125? ( I hope so!) There has to be 10 times more buyers at $80 then $125. I just don't see tons of buyers at $125+

whats it cost to make the Viper anyways?? hmmmmm......

 

[ZYellow01RT]

There has to be 10 times more buyers at $80 then $125.

So...then there should be 100 times more buyers at $8K, right? I get your logic, but lowering the price drastically like that changes the whole "exclusivity" factor of the Viper. We don't want to end up in the same boat as the Corvette. One at every street corner.

 

[ACRucrazy]

I can't wait until this stupid price speculation is over.

 

[Coloviper]

As SRT will not be producing more than 2,000 per year, I serious doubt they will be on every corner. I mean we are lucky now if we even see another one when we drive and there are over 25,000 of them out there total. But I get the point of exclusivity as most other cars in my mini collection are 1 of 1 and if there were two I would be nervous.

 

[Mister Viper]

Hmmm. Interesting math. But remember that Lutz asked for $100M, and was only given $50M from Iacocca. So the balance was amortized. (this my recollection, subject to correction by Roy Sjorberg, or others who were actually there!

Your math of what it costs to develop the Gen 5 Viper is sadly shy of what you might believe... you can thank your government for much of this... and you might ask yourself: if they aren't representing your Viper interests, just who's interests do they represent, anyway?...

 

[Mister Viper]

No comment, from the Home Office. But we can tell you this: we consider the Viper to be America's Supercar, bar none. When America wins wars (which is always, if we try), noone questions the cost-efficiencies of fighter jets. For a reason: fighter jets, and Vipers, are matters of national pride, and less about the cost to produce additional units.

The Viper Nation is comprised of some of the smartest, most street-credible racers out there. And you guys know that you get what you pay for. The Gen 5 Viper makes no excuses. None. It will be America's Supercar, again! The full carbon fiber and hot-formed Aluminum body will amaze you - when you add 40 hp, and remove 150 lbs, you get a VERY good thing! This is almost better than you-know-what!...

 

[Paul Hawker]

It seems to me that there is going to be a Viper for every pocketbook...

$25,000 ******/fixer upper Gen I
$30,000 Nicer Gen I
$35,000 Great Gen 1 or Good Gen II
$40,000 Better Gen II Blue/White or Good Gen III
$45,000 Nice Gen III
$50,000 Great optioned, low mileage Gen III
$55,000 In the Wrapper Gen III or beat Gen IV
$60,000 High mileage 08
$65,000 Good Gen IV
$70,000 Low mileage Gen IV
$75,000 Left over 08/09
$80,000 Left over 09/10
$85,000 Low mileage ACR
$90,000 Left over ACR 08/09 Red
$95,000 Left over ACR popular color.
$100,000 Left over 10' ACR
$105,000 New base SRT 2013
$110,000 Left over ACR special edition (Ring car, etc)
$115,000 Loaded up SRT 2013
$120,000 Base GTS 2013
$125,000 Loaded GTS 2013

While I realize that some of these numbers are going to be a bit off, with some getting great deals, and others paying a bit more to get just the Viper they want, I believe the concept is that most everyone can get a Viper. The size of the check they write will determine the Viper they can drive.

Note. I am not an expert on Viper pricing, but just did this off the top of my head to note that while Chrysler can price the cars any way they want, it is up to the buyer to determine how deep they will go into their checkbooks (payment stubs) to drive the Viper of their dreams and desires.

 

[mnc2886]

No comment, from the Home Office. But we can tell you this: we consider the Viper to be America's Supercar, bar none. When America wins wars (which is always, if we try), noone questions the cost-efficiencies of fighter jets. For a reason: fighter jets, and Vipers, are matters of national pride, and less about the cost to produce additional units.

The Viper Nation is comprised of some of the smartest, most street-credible racers out there. And you guys know that you get what you pay for. The Gen 5 Viper makes no excuses. None. It will be America's Supercar, again! The full carbon fiber and hot-formed Aluminum body will amaze you - when you add 40 hp, and remove 150 lbs, you get a VERY good thing! This is almost better than you-know-what!...

Soooo...what is the development cost?