Will Hennessey Vipers Become Collectors Items?

[snowmann]

I was wondering if a Viper with a Hennessey package will greatly increase the value of a Viper in say 25 years? Mostly how would this value compare to a stock ACR? Do you guys/gals think this might fall in the same catagory as the famous Shelby GT500 Mustangs someday? Just wondering what others think. I would appreciate no bashing on Hennessey in this post (I know someone is itching to say something bad about him, but I think he has been beat up more than enough in every other post about him).

Thanks.

 

[ElDiablo Viper]

So what is the point of making a post about him again? He deserves a lot more than jut getting beat up on the forum.

To answer your question...he's reputation lives on and I'm sure that the car will be worth less because of that. Because you'll never know if the parts in the car were replaced for older ones or not.

 

[J DAWG]

I personally don't think they will be worth more, but it all depends on the buyer. There are so many tuner packages out there that perform equally or better than his. Back then it was a big deal to have a special edition car released. Now there seems to be a new one everyday and rather than a specific name, I feel people want solid performance. But who knows what the future holds.

 

[LETHAL GTS]

"So what is the point of making a post about him again? He deserves a lot more than jut getting beat up on the forum."

I agree, why give him the exposure.
Personaly, I won't buy one simply as a matter of principal.
So to answer your question, it isn't worth anything to me.

 

[BigCarrot]

hahahaha!

 

[CarDude]

Never...it may have some present value, but it will not have a long-term value, as collectors look for "untouched" vehicles. As I have been told, "its All in the VIN". If the VIN doesn't tell the story, its not worth listening to. Of course a car's history or owner may change this opinion...e.g. one of Elvis' Cadillacs, etc...

 

[Torquemonster]

The answer lies not in the past, but in the future.

Businesses, like lives, can be rebuilt on a platform of integrity. No one is in a position to say that John could not do that, those that do say so, say a lot about themselves. He may not, or he may.

Time will tell. Some will never forget, but Johns future is not in their hands, its in his.

I've read most of the threads and felt the intense hatred and anger out there. If I'd been ripped off I'm sure I'd be angry too, but all that aside... if HP survives this, and rebuilds goodwill with a whole new customer base by giving them good cars, backing up with good service and honouring fair warranty work... the cars still have the potential to become legends and collectors items. There's no doubt he can make a super product.

There may be others who can match his quality, but no one holds a candle to his marketing ability. The big money doesn't suffer fools lightly, but nor do they care about the past, they care about now and their personal interests. If HP caters to them, it could do well, and good luck to HP if they can pull it off - it'd take a bunch of guts. No one else has stepped into the gap in the public eye, and until they do and over-shadow HP cars, the posibilities are still there for him.

Personally, I think he has a chance. You can't build a crap TT1000 without it showing up really quick. Nothing like 1000hp to show up some flaws. If those cars stand up - its a big endorsement. There's one or two others out there who may offer a limited warranty on 1000hp, but they'd be holding their breath.... any engine can pop at power levels well under that and just one would hurt the builders bank more than a bit. I know it'd make me careful building one.

 

[joe117]

I think CarDude has it right. Look at the vintage Corvettes. The most desirable cars are untouched, unrestored, no mods. A well known car such as the Shelby GT500 Mustangs is probably not a good comparison since that was not a mod, it was a production model. I don't think the Viper with a Henn****y package will be looked at as anything other than a Viper that isn't stock and that will be the kiss of death for a collector car.

 

[randall]

Tourquemonster,
marketing means nothing if you don't have product or service to back it up.i think Doug Levin has all the work he needs and desires,his customers word of mouth is good enough.all of my own customers come from word of mouth referrals and i currently have a wait list.i do work in all fifty states and eighteen countries and do not employ one salesman nor do i advertise.

 

[LETHAL GTS]

"There may be others who can match his quality, but no one holds a candle to his marketing ability."

That's funny, I guess bad publicy is good marketing now?

"There's one or two others out there who may offer a limited warranty on 1000hp, but they'd be holding their breath.... "

Are you suggesting that HMS is giving warranty on his TT1000?
This is too funny!
If so, I wonder what price one must pay for such a warranty.
By the way, a warranty is only as good as the person or company standing behind it.
This is kinda like going out and giving warranty on a stereo you stole.

Look I don't have anything against you, but you say you haven't felt the wrath of John yet either.
You should try looking into my buddys eyes when he tells you about how he got screwed for 70K.

By the way, people don't change that easy. Especially one who has dug his hole as deep as this guy.

My self, honesty, integrity and morals have a whole lot more value to me than ANY Viper!

You asked!

 

[snowmann]

So from what I am hearing, a stock ACR will probably be worth more than a 1000TT Hennessey Viper... I guess I could see that... good point about the Shelby and VIN comments...

 

[SEASNAKE]

No, but they may become court exhibits.

 

[Torquemonster]

Some fair comments made.

Bigfoot - you are right, I've not had to look into anyones eyes over this - and I'm sure it'd make an impact if I did. Your last comment about intergrity not for sale I relate to totally buddy... please don't think I was suggesting the lack of it was ok given time - its just that I have seen people change, and so am not willing to become part of the jury, but time will prove everything.

Randall - no one can argue with a full order book - that's great! Public perception/profile is what i was referring to and if the business you have is as big as you want it - you don't need it - you have the perfect situation of being where you want to be.

It may even be fair to say that a large public following does not translate necessarily into sales as 99% of enthusiasts are tire kickers without the funds to buy one, and those with the funds will probably ask around.... so there you have it for the enthusiast market. The big money market however does pick up people from targeted marketing efforts and they do like the comfort of magazine testing, good media profile etc. A good profile in the media can't hurt if the cost is reasonable.

e.g. One of you super tuners should get a write up in the Robb Report (not just an advert) - take them for a spin in a 1000hp Viper and market to them properly - you'll get noticed by many who have jets for transport and have not considered a Viper yet. But make sure the car won't run into problems on the day they won't like that. That article will generate sale. Who's up for it?

 

[viperrt96]

I will probably start a whole other flame here but oh well...

I will never compare Vettes to Vipers but I will compare Callaway to Vettes as is Hennessey to Vipers(I think-let me explain). I owned a Callaway TT a few years ago and bought it with the hopes of it being a collector car. Mind you GM endorsed Callaway and it was a B2K option package and backed with a factory warranty that all GM dealers serviced. So I considered this as something more than just a supertuners car. The market trend never seem to be that kind to Callaway or its owners(I know). I sold mine and decided driving a car is much more fun than collecting one. I still keep a eye on the market just for the mere entertainment of it all. Where does Hennesey fit in with this. I would be willing to bet that Hennesey cars will be no more to vipers than Callaways are to vettes. A nice car and rare(somewhat-limited numbers)but considered no more than an option. Just my own opinion.

 

[Bugeater]

lol. I wouldnt (and didnt) buy one if his name was associated it! His cars are worth far less to me because of his lack of integrity. I guess you could lose the stickers and hide the fact it had mods performed by him, but I also feared getting one of those cars that he had "swapped" stock parts or worse...

I wouldnt want to own his car anymore than say owning OJ's white bronco.

 

[Birvini]

I would not consider buying a car that had anything done by Hennessey. Period.

 

[RobHook]

Hmmm...We're talking about 25 years in the future so is the Callaway argument valid? Didn't Callaway start in the late 80's? If so, maybe we're not seeing the real impact on those prices yet.

Going back a little further, wouldn't the Hennessey Viper be more comparable to the Yenko Camaros or Cooper Minis of years past? If history sees it this way, then yes, they will be more collectible and more valuable. Presently real, documented Yenko Camaros are fetching close to the 100K mark.

The other thing is, Hennessey Vipers were all over the trade press for several years. Other than the reliability snafus early on, they usually tended to clean up the competition pretty well. Those articles, and those impressions, may survive 25 years into the future better than the bad publicity that, as far as I can recall, existed mostly on the 'net rather than in the trade press. (Is that accurate?)

Now, on the other hand, I propose that we, gentlemen (and ladies) are creating the Viper's history right here, right now. Years ago people relied on articles and factory specs to research older cars. In 25 years, it will be the archived tomes of the internet to which the enthusiast turns. In the future it will be the "Grandson of Google" search engine that will offer up the very facts and testimony that we write here today as the history of the Viper's early years. Right now this is, by far, the best source of first-hand Viper information the 'net has and that will probably be recognized in those far-off searches.

So, the answer isn't written yet and we may, in fact, be writing that answer right now. So be careful what you say...the 'net doesn't forget.

Actually...maybe there is a way to find out what the answer will be. Does anyone here still own a DeLorean?

--Rob Hook

 

[Daffy Duck Viper]

Simply put, unless the negative Hennessey name fades, his reworked Vipers will be worth less than other Vipers no matter how far into the future we go.
-Daffy

 

[randall]

i would not buy a used Callaway with the mindset that it has had the crap ran out of it,maybe this is why the resale has never been strong?i assume the same would apply to a highly modded vipers?

 

[NCVCA]

Kindof like a Delorean. Valueable because the developer/designer went to ]]errr[[ I mean might go to jail.

Even factory upgraded cars like Mercedes AMG and BMW M cars have had a hard time in long term incremental appreciation. I think the problem is people assume (probably correctly in most cases) that these cars were driven harder and in worse shape with parts that are harder and more expensive to find/replace.

I wouldn't pay anymore for a Hennessey modified car. Resale w/o OEM bosy is diminished and the car isn't legal for any class of racing short of SPO/SPU or Unlimited where there are always bound to be faster cars.

So even though some have thrown down impressive HP/TQ numbers I think it's more of a poser car than a practical car for street/track and logterm value appreciation.

Sorry this is a boring post. I'll try to be more exciting.

 

[painexpert]

Re: Will [******] Vipers Become Collectors Items?

I believe they will be worth much LESS because of his poor reputation.I am very relieved that I sold my [******] car,

 

[Martin D]

Re: Will [******] Vipers Become Collectors Items?

Hey all - I dont know how much exposure this thread is still getting, however, I can relay to you my real-world experiences with a bonafide Venom 650R.

When I am out and about I do get a consistent number or WOW that is a Hen nessy car, cool....comments. I also get the - Hey I heard H. M. S. has a bad reputation. But honestly, I get far more positive comments. It would seem to me that the general public is either not aware or not concerned with his current reputation. Further, I would also say, that only the true car buffs even know what a 650R means. So really, who knows what will happen in the future. I certainly have given up on my car having any real value - I have over 50k miles on it now. Finally, all over Atlanta people know of my car. It is certainly the real deal - and a street terror.

So, I have said my peace.

Regards,

 

[SylvanSRT]

Re: Will [******] Vipers Become Collectors Items?

Callaway and (*****) in the same sentence! Callaway has proved his ability on numerous cars camaros, alfas(yes), vettes and others i cant remember. He has also ran race cars in numerous venues in the US and Europe. He has done development for OEM companies. I have not heard ANY stories about him screwing people. If you remember the Sledgehammer vette of years ago it was the fastest street legal car for a while. I would not even use these two names together except to show the polar oppisite nature of these two men and their integrity! I know a guy w/ two Callaway's both camaros, do you know anyone who has done business w/ (********) more than once!

 

[MichaelP]

Re: Will [******] Vipers Become Collectors Items?

Hey all - I dont know how much exposure this thread is still getting, however, I can relay to you my real-world experiences with a bonafide Venom 650R.

When I am out and about I do get a consistent number or WOW that is a Hen nessy car, cool....comments. I also get the - Hey I heard H. M. S. has a bad reputation. But honestly, I get far more positive comments. It would seem to me that the general public is either not aware or not concerned with his current reputation. Further, I would also say, that only the true car buffs even know what a 650R means. So really, who knows what will happen in the future. I certainly have given up on my car having any real value - I have over 50k miles on it now. Finally, all over Atlanta people know of my car. It is certainly the real deal - and a street terror.

So, I have said my peace.

Regards,

I think you actually prove the point you are trying to DISPROVE>

Especially when you say "It would seem to me that the general public is either not aware or not concerned with his current reputation. Further, I would also say, that only the true car buffs even know what a 650R means."

The general public are not the people buying Vipers, it is car buff who are.