Will the 2009 Viper get a HP boost to Head off the ZR-1?

[Vipermann]

Interesting ...I was just reading the May issue of 0-60 magazine (page 24):

"Unlike the Italian supercars that Chevy wants to compete with, the technology inside the ZR1 didn't trickle down from a sophisticated Formula One program. The engine is the Chevrolet LS9, a 6.2L V8 based on the LS3. It's not as sophisticated as the LS7 that powers the current Corvette Z06. Eaton developed a brand-new four-lobe, screw-type supercharger. Advanced for sure, but the LS9 is also heavier. Did Chevy do more with too much?..."

 

[Les Quam]

As the owner of a 2006 FGT I can unequivocally state that the engineering is most unimpressive. Engineering or lack thereof is more accurate. The last Corvette I owned was a 1991 ZR1 and it ran pretty good. The new ZR1 looks great and will give the Viper all it can handle and then some I suspect.

 

[black mamba1]

Before I start trolling this thread, I want provide a brief background so nobody thinks my opinion is biased. First, I am a proud owner of both a 97 Viper GTS and a C4 ZR1, and hold both Vipers and the Vettes near and dear to my heart. I've also been following the new ZR-1 very closely, and have read just about everything that's been written on the car. That said, I think some of the folks in this thread are in denial on a few things, and others might actually be on crack...

Those commenting on the new ZR-1 and the issues it will have with regards to RWHP, heat soak, traction, accelleration, cornering, etc. need to keep reading up on this car. I don't think many people realize the engineering that went into this car, most importantly the motor and the supercharger. It's probably as much or more than what went into the old ZR1, and the most I've ever seen for any car maker in terms of performance.

Below is a link to a thread on a ZR1 forum that has probably the most comprehensive report on the ins and outs of the ZR1 and its engineering (especially the drivetrain). I credit John Rovner, the owner of the forum and a long standing corvette and F-body tuner, with compiling it...

2009 ZR1 - Team ZR-1 Corvette Racers

The biggest thing I see on here is everyone talking about heat soak. GM addressed this with oil sprayer system that keeps the pistons cool, which happens to be one of my favorite features about the car. That is just the tip of the iceberg with what GM has done with this motor. Another amazing thing they've done is run an LS9 engine for 100 hours continuously at wide open throttle and done both simulated and real 24-hour track cycles similar to what the GT1 C6.Rs run on the dyno and in the car. There is also a rumor that the engine has undergone an endurance test similar to what Lotus & Mercruiser did to the LT5 engine on the old ZR1 and passed with flying colors.

I gotta tell you folks, you can forget heat soak, engine durability, and most of the other issues that have been brought up; GM has pulled out all the stops on this one and produced a car that is really over the top, and in my opinion will run circles around the Vipers.

This is GM's final Hail Mary with the big cube motors, and I anticipate Dodge may try to do the same, because the days of V8s/V10s is going away. We are going to start seeing smaller boosted applications thanks to EPA and CAFE standards our ******** government is imposing on the car makers.

I'd hang onto your Vipers folks, because if I were a betting man, I'd bet that the Viper's days are numbered... TCC Blog » Blog Archive » Dodge Viper Could Be History. These may be worth some cash some day if/when it goes away.

Again, this is my opinion, and we all know opinions are like a-holes, everyone has one and it stinks. But in this case, the proof is in the pudding, and if you take a closer look at the engineering behind the ZR1, it becomes easier to believe that the car is capable of living up to the hype.

Just my $.02.

Viper owners are like Marines, the best friends you ever had, or your
worst enemies...and like Marines, we tend to be a little bull headed and sometime our passion overcomes our ability to interpret facts (like Obama is leading McCain oops, sorry for that!).

I have said this over and over in this forum. Chevy drivers almost form a religion of their own. Chevys are more affordable than Dodges, Corvettes are more affordable than Vipers, more plentiful, many guys have had their first lay in Vettes...and those guys outnumber us over 1000 to 1. The passion and money the GM sinks into their Vettes should NEVER be underestimated. You think that Z06 surprised many Viper drivers...wait until this Zr1 hits the streets. Yes, 620 is underrated. Yes, traction will be its biggest problem, but we have already seen Gen 4 Vipers in here w/ 3:33 gears run 11.18. Imagine what a 640 hp Vette w/ 3:42's will run...expect high 10's guys....easy.

Yes, the ACR will kick the ZR1's ass on the track, but not in the 1/4 mile and definitely not in 0-100 or 0-150. From the factory the ZR1 will be king of the hill...until Dodge comes out w/ a comp coupe, a not street legal Gen 4 w/ headers and a cam and making some 675-700 hp. That car will run mid to low 10's and kick the snot out of everything except the Bugatti.

It is like the cold war. Chevy will outspend Dodge to get the oneupmanship they want...and we Viper owners simply need to be better drivers and do our mods to hold our own. After all, its what happens on the street that matters, not what the factories put out.

 

[jay01m]

Interesting ...I was just reading the May issue of 0-60 magazine (page 24):

"Unlike the Italian supercars that Chevy wants to compete with, the technology inside the ZR1 didn't trickle down from a sophisticated Formula One program. The engine is the Chevrolet LS9, a 6.2L V8 based on the LS3. It's not as sophisticated as the LS7 that powers the current Corvette Z06. Eaton developed a brand-new four-lobe, screw-type supercharger. Advanced for sure, but the LS9 is also heavier. Did Chevy do more with too much?..."

For them to say that the LS9 is not as sophisticated as the LS7 tells me they are idiots and should be doing some more homework before writing something as rediculous as that. Besides, that article was written in May of last year I presume, which if true, it was written long before the car and engine was even unveiled.

The LS9 is every bit as sophisticated as the LS7, only much more. I'd bet if you asked that author now, he'd be singing a different tune. As for weight, the ZR1 is less than 100-lbs heavier than the ZO6, which is nothing if you consider the SC, thicker bulk heads being a 6.3L motor, and considerable more HP, the power to weight ratio is far better than the ZO6. Not to mention, almost every single body part on the ZR1 was designed for weight reduction and aerodynamics, adding 25% more downforce over the ZO6.

I'll even argue that since the ZR1 is rolling on Michelin tires now instead of the GYs, has a totally different suspension system, has traction control and torque management, I'm willing to bet a driver will turn better lap times in the Z than in the Viper. Yes this is arguable because there is obviously no proof of this yet, but in time we may see if it is true or not. If the C6R can do it...

Just my $.02.

 

[GTSRboy2000]

I dont like when people automaticlly call the ZR1 'King of the Kill' because it hass 620 HP. Guess what the mustang GT.500 "KR" has named itself 'king of the hill' becasue it has 550 hp. The ZR1 is not king of the hill at all, oh WOW it has a whole 20 Horsepower more than the viper... In my book track times is all that is important. And the 08 ACR will demolish ANY vette in a track race. The ACR is already seconds a lap ahead of the 08 Viper (recent R&T track test) and im sure a 08 Viper is at least even with a ZR1 on the track, if not faster.

So to sum up what im trying to say is, the ZR1 is bit faster in a straight line, and the ACR is WAY ahead when it comes to (IMO the more imporant) track racing...And also factor in the ZR1 will cost more. So how does this all add up to the Vette being "king of the hill"? Why dont i just take a Honda Civic and soup it up to 980 HP and call myself king of the world? It takes alot more than HP to be a good car, I can sit here and go on and on about why the Viper is better, i mean who knows if there would even BE a ZR1 if the Viper hadnt been there first to 600HP..What about the fact that ZR1's are not Exotic at all? What are looks not important at all anymore? I guess thats what Vette guys think... sorry i have to vent. I think Vettes completly lack that passion that gets people (like me) into cars in the first place.. i dont care how much HP they jam into them

 

[Vipermann]

...Besides, that article was written in May of last year I presume, which if true, it was written long before the car and engine was even unveiled.

Actually, it's fresh off the press (just picked it up at B$N). It's says 'Spring 2008.'

 

[Bobpantax]

I'll even argue that since the ZR1 is rolling on Michelin tires now instead of the GYs, has a totally different suspension system, has traction control and torque management, I'm willing to bet a driver will turn better lap times in the Z than in the Viper. Yes this is arguable because there is obviously no proof of this yet, but in time we may see if it is true or not. If the C6R can do it...

In designing the suspension for the new ZR1, the Chevrolet engineers appeared to focus more on its quarter mile capabilities as evidenced by its "sit and squat" function with slow rebound for off the line starts. The articles I have read also state that Chevrolet intends the Z06 to remain the track car. Most importantly, the enormous difference in down force available between the ACR and the ZR1 means that the ACR will have capabilties in the corners significantly exceeding the ZR1 - just as the SRT engineers intended.

 

[jay01m]

Actually, it's fresh off the press (just picked it up at B$N). It's says 'Spring 2008.'

If that's true, then the author is diluted. He needs to go ask GM about the LS9. The LS7 is not more sophisticated. He needs to read more.

 

[jay01m]

I dont like when people automaticlly call the ZR1 'King of the Kill' because it hass 620 HP. Guess what the mustang GT.500 "KR" has named itself 'king of the hill' becasue it has 550 hp. The ZR1 is not king of the hill at all, oh WOW it has a whole 20 Horsepower more than the viper... In my book track times is all that is important. And the 08 ACR will demolish ANY vette in a track race. The ACR is already seconds a lap ahead of the 08 Viper (recent R&T track test) and im sure a 08 Viper is at least even with a ZR1 on the track, if not faster.

So to sum up what im trying to say is, the ZR1 is bit faster in a straight line, and the ACR is WAY ahead when it comes to (IMO the more imporant) track racing...And also factor in the ZR1 will cost more. So how does this all add up to the Vette being "king of the hill"? Why dont i just take a Honda Civic and soup it up to 980 HP and call myself king of the world? It takes alot more than HP to be a good car, I can sit here and go on and on about why the Viper is better, i mean who knows if there would even BE a ZR1 if the Viper hadnt been there first to 600HP..What about the fact that ZR1's are not Exotic at all? What are looks not important at all anymore? I guess thats what Vette guys think... sorry i have to vent. I think Vettes completly lack that passion that gets people (like me) into cars in the first place.. i dont care how much HP they jam into them

Wasn't GM the first to use the term "king of the hill" in the first ZR1? That isn't a rhetorical question because I'm not certain, but I think it was, and rightfully so. It broke 7 WORLD speed records, I believe 3 or 4 still hold today, and the ones that were broken weren't done until recently by the Shelby Supercar's S/C Aero.

Let's not even talk about the Mustang shall we? I think we can agree that the mustang hasn't earned the right to be mentioned in the presence of either the Viper or the Corvette. Has the Mustang ever won a track or ORR race ever?

The ZR1 would have been developed regardless of the new 600HP Viper. GM wasn't thinking about outperforming the Viper, but rather all supercars built worldwide.

If the ZR1 is not an exotic car, what is the definition of an exotic?

 

[jay01m]

I'll even argue that since the ZR1 is rolling on Michelin tires now instead of the GYs, has a totally different suspension system, has traction control and torque management, I'm willing to bet a driver will turn better lap times in the Z than in the Viper. Yes this is arguable because there is obviously no proof of this yet, but in time we may see if it is true or not. If the C6R can do it...

In designing the suspension for the new ZR1, the Chevrolet engineers appeared to focus more on its quarter mile capabilities as evidenced by its "sit and squat" function with slow rebound for off the line starts. The articles I have read also state that Chevrolet intends the Z06 to remain the track car. Most importantly, the enormous difference in down force available between the ACR and the ZR1 means that the ACR will have capabilties in the corners significantly exceeding the ZR1 - just as the SRT engineers intended.

GM did focus on launch capability, but also cornering. Tadge Juechter, Corvette's chief engineer, says himself that the ZR1 corners better than the ZO6. Not only that, the ZR1s magnetic selective ride control system reads the road at 1 millisecond intervals. It's the world's fastest reacting damping system, and helps the car corner at over 1G.

ZR1 Corvette Suspension - Team ZR-1 Corvette Racers

Sorry folks, I don't mean to ruffle feathers, but I just like giving credit where credit is due. I think too many people are underestimating the ZR1. This is a sick car! I really hope a car mag does a comparison soon, we'll all get to see how the ACR and the ZR1 line up.

 

[RTTTTed]

"If the ZR1 is not an exotic car, what is the definition of an exotic?"

An exotic car is a limited production CAR - not model. Sorry.

ZR1 is not KING OF THE HILL - that's the Viper - or Veyron if you don't include cost issues.

I can't believe a vette guy posted that we should read posts and opinions on a vette forum???? Why??? How cares, other than vette guys?

GM doesn't care about the Viper? The ZR1 vette was going to be built anyway??? Then why did the vette barely have over 200hp when the 400hp Viper was introduced? Why did the hp go up each and every time the Viper took a huge increase in hp? GM is trying to compete with the Viper - obviously. GM built the HHR truck because of the huge success of the PT Cruiser. GM builds minivans because of Dodge's success with the invention of the minivan. GM is a follower, not a leader. Superhcarger is because it worked so well for Ford, and GM can't get anymore power out of their Z06.

GM has always chased Dodge and Ford. GM never leads the way. Dodge goes racing and the Hemi, then the Winged cars and the Viper all got extra weight or banned from the track because they were TOO FAST. GM never made a car that could compete, nor does it want to.

I, like many of the Viper owners on this VIPER FORUM don't think Chev is much competition, although Ford used to be.

If GM ever builds a car that outshines a Viper, like the Viper kills off the Z06, we'll be surprised and amazed.

The new vette, when it comes out doesn't scare me ... or interest me.

Ted

 

[RTTTTed]

Oh, I forgot --- Traction Control,

Turn on the traction control and lose the race, even if it would have won without the traction control.

You didn't know that traction control applies the brakes? Take your Viper out for a run, dump the clutch and apply the emergency brake on full, it won't slow you down as much as a TC, but it should give you an idea of what TC does.

If you car has traction control, you turn it off if you want to win the race, not on.

Same thing with Electronic Controled Suspension, or the 'half system' called Stability Control. All that does is stiffen the shocks to decrease roll.

Neither systems do miracles or help the cars performance, they hinder it.

Ted

 

[Bobpantax]

GM did focus on launch capability, but also cornering. Tadge Juechter, Corvette's chief engineer, says himself that the ZR1 corners better than the ZO6. Not only that, the ZR1s magnetic selective ride control system reads the road at 1 millisecond intervals. It's the world's fastest reacting damping system, and helps the car corner at over 1G.

Interesting. But the differential in down force between the ACR and ZR1 is too great. The ZR1 will either lose it or its TC/Stability Control programs will kick in to slow the car down if a driver trys to corner at the same speed as the ACR. The SRT engineers were very much aware of what the ZR1 people were doing and believed at the time, and still believe, that they produced a streetable track car that exceeds the road course capabilities of the ZR1. The aerodynamic research that went into the ACR design was a key part of its development. One other thing. Can you honestly say that you think the looks of the ZR1 come anywhere close to the awesome looks of the ACR - especially in all black with a single red stripe? The ZR1 looks like one of the tricked out ricer vehicles we see on Nopi TV. An ACR is one of the most powerful, wicked, mean looking vehicles ever to leave a drawing board. I think that the Chevrolet designers missed their chance to make the ZR1 a true classic.

 

[jay01m]

"If the ZR1 is not an exotic car, what is the definition of an exotic?"

An exotic car is a limited production CAR - not model. Sorry.

ZR1 is not KING OF THE HILL - that's the Viper - or Veyron if you don't include cost issues.

I can't believe a vette guy posted that we should read posts and opinions on a vette forum???? Why??? How cares, other than vette guys?

GM doesn't care about the Viper? The ZR1 vette was going to be built anyway??? Then why did the vette barely have over 200hp when the 400hp Viper was introduced? Why did the hp go up each and every time the Viper took a huge increase in hp? GM is trying to compete with the Viper - obviously. GM built the HHR truck because of the huge success of the PT Cruiser. GM builds minivans because of Dodge's success with the invention of the minivan. GM is a follower, not a leader. Superhcarger is because it worked so well for Ford, and GM can't get anymore power out of their Z06.

GM has always chased Dodge and Ford. GM never leads the way. Dodge goes racing and the Hemi, then the Winged cars and the Viper all got extra weight or banned from the track because they were TOO FAST. GM never made a car that could compete, nor does it want to.

I, like many of the Viper owners on this VIPER FORUM don't think Chev is much competition, although Ford used to be.

If GM ever builds a car that outshines a Viper, like the Viper kills off the Z06, we'll be surprised and amazed.

The new vette, when it comes out doesn't scare me ... or interest me.

Ted

LOL an exotic is a limited production car? If that's the case and you think the Viper is an exotic, then all of the ZR1s are too. Take a look at the production numbers. There are far fewer ZR1s in the world then Vipers.

The "king of the hill" is the Viper or the Veyron? I can't believe you think the Viper is even in the same league as the Veyron. If you want to talk those high dollar cars, forget about the Vette or the Viper, they aren't even close!

I'm not just a Vette guy, I'm a Viper guy too, I own both a GTS and a ZR1! And the links I posted on here did come from a corvette forum, but the content is unedited striaight from GM, so there are no opinions as to whether or not the car is a better performer than the Viper or any other car outside of GM, just cold hard facts as to the engineering and makeup of the ZR1 and the LS9, nothing more. You don't have to believe whats in there, but it is fact.

I never said GM didn't care about the Viper, I said the ZR1 was built to compete with everything out there, not just the Viper. I won't disagree that the corvette was behind the power curve with the Viper for many years, that is very true, and was disappointing to me for many years as a vette owner. It was one of the reasons why I ended up buying a Viper (besides good looks).

However, if you think GM has been chasing Chrysler, why is GM doing far better in vehicle sales and profits, and why is Dodge on the verge of hacking the Viper from their car production lineup due to their inability to comply with CAFE standards, and why does the Corvette Racing Team's C5R and C6R have far better race records than Dodge's Viper? BTW, the C6R is a ZO6, so the Viper did not kill the ZO6.

If you're not scared of the new ZR1, I hope you have mods or a 2008 Viper, because if not, you're going to be disappointed. I wouldn't line up next to one in the streets if I were you.

If I were you, I'd be glad the Corvette is around. If it weren't for them, Dodge wouldn't have any incentive to improve on the Viper, nor any competition on the streets/race track.

Just my $.02.

 

[Vipermann]

If you're not scared of the new ZR1, I hope you have mods or a 2008 Viper, because if not, you're going to be disappointed. I wouldn't line up next to one in the streets if I were you.

I've said it before so I'll say it again:

The '08 Viper beats the Z06 period. The Corvette loses. The Viper is the better/faster car.

Any comparison to the ZR1, only applies to the ACR.

There is no issue about a Viper 'lining up next to a ZR1' ... sorry, but the ZR1 needs to take that up with the ACR. On the track, the ACR will win. In the street, the ZR1 will win. Frankly, they are two different cars -- the ACR, a track rat, and the ZR1, a luxo-domestic-exotic aimed at Lambos and Ferraris.

 

[wallbanger]

i think the zr1 and viper stack up very well with the high price exotics...i don't street race... but if i did line up my 08 against whatever and lost all i would do is "thumbs up and nice driving" to the other guy.... a loss doesn't change my income,, my marriage,,my kidss.... these are just cars we are talking about here not a life saving heart transplant...that being said enjoy the cars while you can,,,, the zr1 and 08 viper are old news in ten years but i still have a feeling the 08 viper will still be making my blood boil

 

[jay01m]

GM did focus on launch capability, but also cornering. Tadge Juechter, Corvette's chief engineer, says himself that the ZR1 corners better than the ZO6. Not only that, the ZR1s magnetic selective ride control system reads the road at 1 millisecond intervals. It's the world's fastest reacting damping system, and helps the car corner at over 1G.

Interesting. But the differential in down force between the ACR and ZR1 is too great. The ZR1 will either lose it or its TC/Stability Control programs will kick in to slow the car down if a driver trys to corner at the same speed as the ACR. The SRT engineers were very much aware of what the ZR1 people were doing and believed at the time, and still believe, that they produced a streetable track car that exceeds the road course capabilities of the ZR1. The aerodynamic research that went into the ACR design was a key part of its development. One other thing. Can you honestly say that you think the looks of the ZR1 come anywhere close to the awesome looks of the ACR - especially in all black with a single red stripe? The ZR1 looks like one of the tricked out ricer vehicles we see on Nopi TV. An ACR is one of the most powerful, wicked, mean looking vehicles ever to leave a drawing board. Ithink that the Chevrolet designers missed their chance to make the ZR1 a true classic.

You're assessments of the ZR1s cornering ability compared to the ACR might be correct, who knows. There is only one way to find out, and I hope to see the two get put to the test. I'd be surprised if ACR knew what GM was doing with the ZR1 6-months ago though, because the ZR1 was a well kept secret until it was unveiled. Perhaps ACR had good spies LOL. Don't know much about the aero technology ACR put into their car, I just know the ZR1s, and they definately put in a lot of work.

I'm not trolling on here saying the ZR1 is a better car than the ACR, all Ive been saying is that folks should read more on this car, because it is a special car that deserves recognition, and is definately a competitor to the Viper.

Do I think the ZR1 is better looking than the ACR? Not necessarily. I love the front end on the ACR, but not too fond of the rear end, and the wing is DEFINATELY ricer, but I know its a functional wing, so it's cool. The ZR1 is certianly not your average looking corvette, does have a few ricer stuff like the window on the hood which I don't like, and the carbon fiber, but I like everything else, and the interior is goregous.

To answer your question, I can't decide which one I like more, I think both look great. I would have to see both in person and drive them to decide. If I were to go just on looks, I'd probably choose the ZR1, but thats only because I can have it in blue or gun metal gray. If I could have the ACR in GTS blue with white stripes, I'd go for that.

 

[wallbanger]

Yea the zr1 in blue , white stripe without the chrome rims and transparent hood would be nice(i know it's a zo6)

 

[jay01m]

I've said it before so I'll say it again:

The '08 Viper beats the Z06 period. The Corvette loses. The Viper is the better/faster car.

Any comparison to the ZR1, only applies to the ACR.

There is no issue about a Viper 'lining up next to a ZR1' ... sorry, but the ZR1 needs to take that up with the ACR. On the track, the ACR will win. In the street, the ZR1 will win. Frankly, they are two different cars -- the ACR, a track rat, and the ZR1, a luxo-domestic-exotic aimed at Lambos and Ferraris.

Does the 08 Viper beat the 08 ZO6? Have there been comparisons and track tests yet?

Sure, the ACR and the ZR1 are fair comparisons, so when I say the Viper, I mean the ACR. Hopefully we'll get to see how they stack up when both hit the track. But you can't assume the ACR is going to win on the track, need to wait and see. But I do agree, the ACR is a track rat, while the ZR1 is a street machine aimed at the global car market.

 

[black mamba1]

Does the 08 Viper beat the 08 ZO6? Have there been comparisons and track tests yet?

Sure, the ACR and the ZR1 are fair comparisons, so when I say the Viper, I mean the ACR. Hopefully we'll get to see how they stack up when both hit the track. But you can't assume the ACR is going to win on the track, need to wait and see. But I do agree, the ACR is a track rat, while the ZR1 is a street machine aimed at the global car market.

The 08 Viper beats the 07 Z06 in every cateragory, and there are no changes to the 08 Z06.
Lets face it, the bragging rights come from who smokes who on roll ons and stop light to stop light. That is what the Zr1 is designed to excel at. BobPantax is right, the 1500 lb of downforce produced by the ACR will dwarf anything the Vette is able to manage, and the Zr1 will get smoked on the track. But, the track is not really where bragging rights come from...

Those of us who road race have seem BMW's and Infinitis smoke Vipers and Aston Martins w/ the right driver and mods, especially on technical tracks...but of course in a straight line or on a fast track like Poconos, its a different story.

If the Zr1 out accelerates the ACR 0-150 mph, it will be dubbed the new king of the hill by most of the sports car community

 

[RTTTTed]

"LOL an exotic is a limited production car? If that's the case and you think the Viper is an exotic, then all of the ZR1s are too. Take a look at the production numbers. There are far fewer ZR1s in the world then Vipers."

Kind of like a "rare" camaro you mean? Out of millions built, some of them are "special"? Like the 10 that came with "liquid chains"?

There is no "limited production corvette CAR" only limited production models. The Viper is a limited production CAR, including the ACR model.

Millions of vettes compared to 1500 Vipers average per year? Like comparing a vette to an Enzo?

My insurance company says that over 1500 per year can not get "Collector" status after 15 years.



"If the Zr1 out accelerates the ACR 0-150 mph, it will be dubbed the new king of the hill by most of the sports car community"

I supposed the magazines will agree with you. Not me.

 

[Vipermann]

Does the 08 Viper beat the 08 ZO6? Have there been comparisons and track tests yet?

I posted this a few months ago:

Here's the R&T test results (along with the MT and C&D numbers for comparison).

R&T did not test the Z06 side-by-side, so there was no comparison information except that R&T said, "The Tremec 6-speed now features larger gears, improved synchronizers and shorter throws that result in lever movements that are better than those in the newly refined Corvettes ... For racers, there are now provisions for adding an external transmission cooler. And that's really what the Viper is meant for -- racing..."

R&T:

2008 Viper:
0-60 .................... 3.7
0-100 .................. 8.4
1/4 mi ................. 11.9 @124.4 mph (same trap speed but slower time vs. MT looks like less aggressive launch, and shifting too soon for the 0-100 time)

Motor Trend:

2008 Viper:
0-60 .................... 3.7
0-100 .................. 7.9
1/4 mi ................. 11.7 @124.4 mph

2008 Z06:
0-60 .................... 3.7
0-100 .................. 8.2
1/4 mi ................. 11.8 @121.6 mph

C&D:

2008 Viper:
0-60 .................... 3.5
0-100 .................. 7.6
1/4 mi ................. 11.6 @126 mph

2008 Z06:
0-60 .................... 3.7
0-100 .................. 7.7
1/4 mi ................. 11.7 @125 mph

 

[jay01m]

There is no "limited production corvette CAR" only limited production models. The Viper is a limited production CAR, including the ACR model.

Millions of vettes compared to 1500 Vipers average per year? Like comparing a vette to an Enzo?

Car... model... talk about splitting hairs. Are we that self absorbed with Vipers here? If I was supposed to say the ZR1 is a limited production MODEL, ok I'm sorry, but does that really make any difference? Does anyone really think an inbiased party will say the ZR1 is a limited production "model?" Why do I think only Viper folks would make this kind of argument?

So I am guessing everyone here thinks because the ZR1 is a MODEL, it's not a rare CAR because it's just another vette. That's like saying the 1967 427 shouldn't be worth anything because vettes are a dime a dozen.

Ok, I'll give in, so the ZR1 is just another corvette, than we can go back to comparing the ZR1 to the regular Viper and not the ACR, right? LOL!

 

[RTTTTed]

Right the ZR1 is a model (option package) of a vette. The ACR is an option package of a Viper, which doesn't come in various assorted model packages like Z06, ZR1, what's the other ordinary vette??? I guess it really doesn't matter here at the VIPER forum.

Yah. you dould coompare the ZR1 to the ACR model, or the Z06 to the ACR, but why not compare the base vette to the base Viper? Because they're not comparable since the Viper is an exotic?

Maybe compare the Hurst Hemi 'cuda of 69 (just limited production model of millions of Barracudas built) to the ZR1? Both limited production models. Oh, the Hemi would win. Well then compare the vette ZR1 to the 427 vette you mentioned?

Ted

 

[488civ10]

With huge sums of money, anything can be achieved. Having said that, it would not surprise me if the ZR1 raises the bar. That is what is supposed to happen, right? Don't get me wrong, I want the ACR to administer the ZR1 a beatdown on the track, but it's not like chevy can't rent a wind tunnel or install aerodynamic aids. If Toyota or Honda wanted to, they could commit a ton of money into a halo car and produce a "King of the road."

This leads me to the most alluring aspect of the Viper (and I'm sure many fellow Viperholics would agree)... no amount of money can replicate the "soul" of a Viper. It is a simple, pure and beautiful creation, whether it has a bone stock heart, or a furious 1500rwhp pulse, we know it is something special. For me, that is why the Viper will always be king (like the 427 Cobra before it).

I almost feel bad for some of the vette crowd. Many of them just don't "get" it. Anyway, GM, hurry up and get your savior-vette into the showrooms. I'm ready for the ACR/ZR1 pay-per-view to start!

 

[Bobpantax]

but it's not like chevy can't rent a wind tunnel or install aerodynamic aids.

Extensive wind tunnel testing was used to develop the configuration of "aerodynamic aids" used on the ACR. The "aids" include the front splitter, hood ( the vents ), and the adjustable rear wing. Suspension tuning was also necessary. Your right. Chevy could also do this but it would require significant effort and probably increase the MSRP of the ZR1 by about $12,000. It would also alter the intended use of the ZR1. The ACR is a streetable race car. The ZR1 appears to be a high performance nannyteched, comfortable street car that can be raced but is far more suitable for daily driving than an ACR.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

What good is another 20 HP if it can't last a season tracking? Not to mention the fun of driving a driver's car vs electronic nannies?

 

[jay01m]

Wow, I had no idea how many folks on this forum keep the blinders on. GM puts out a monster MODEL that I'm willing to bet will reset the bar, and folks on here want to turn a blind eye and dismiss it as nothing. I suppose if you don't see the ZR1 pass you up, it didn't happen right? LOL Ok, I'm just poking fun at this point.

Bottom line, I just wanted to throw out there that GM has put out an amazing new MODEL with lots of innovative engineering whose performance is something to be reckoned with. I recommend as a CAR/MODEL guy that folks read and educate yourself on it before making snap judgments.

 

[Vipermann]

Wow, I had no idea how many folks on this forum keep the blinders on. GM puts out a monster MODEL that I'm willing to bet will reset the bar, and folks on here want to turn a blind eye and dismiss it as nothing...

Bottom line, I just wanted to throw out there that GM has put out an amazing new MODEL with lots of innovative engineering whose performance is something to be reckoned with. I recommend as a CAR/MODEL guy that folks read and educate yourself on it before making snap judgments.

Blinders? Well, that's a two-way street. No, we don't drink the Bowling Green Kool-aid here.

I think all the 'Model' talk has to do with the fact that, at it's core, the Z06 or ZR1 is a lot like a Mustang GT500 -- a very well built-up version of a lesser car to begin with. Funny how nobody dares to campare a 'base' Corvette with a Viper (see the point?)

As for reading, I'll admit I can't find reason to be that interested in the ZR1. I'm turned-off by the cheap add-ons like the clear hood window -- very cheesy. GM's new Camaro, if it ever gets built, is far more interesting.

 

[488civ10]

Spaaaaaaaartaaa!!!