*** - Z06 still faster

[Vipera]

Sad when exclusitivity is more important that speed. I remember when the Viper had both, hopefully it will once againe. But the second you settle for "Who cares if the Viper is slower, it's "just" a Vette" then you already lose....

And being a Lamborghini owner, many Ferrari/Lambo owners say the same about Vipers.......my point is it's all relative.

Ya know, I try to be a nice guy and poke some fun at a totally insane post...

I was ready to send a ferocious blast your way, but instead my therapist said I should count to ten...thousand. It seemed to work.
As I have been an avid Viper owner, 3 in fact, as well as a Venom, and a Lambo like my new friend Mopar. I NEVER would settle for 2nd in anything! Get a grip, it was a humorous reply!!! I think this whole thing about I'm .1 sec faster than you, as written in "Road & Track", is all BS. Until I see it at the track in competition, I will never believe it. Vipers have always and will always be King of the hill. We all know that, and that's why we will be forever fending off these "wanna be" Viper owners, and loving it.

 

[Wicked]

You guys kill me with this stuff. I mean are you seriously going to continue talking about the Z06's roofs falling off forever? As far as I've heard the problems have been fixed.

I've never seen the Corvette Crowd saying "Who care's if it's a Viper when the *** breaks on all of them" What was the 03 warranty issue, cam shaft or some other issue.

I have no doubt the new Viper will be faster then the Z06, however it doesn't make it a better built car. Better built Engine Yes, car No. I can list 100 things that made my 06 Vette better then my 06 Viper, but as many of you stated, I went to the Viper because you don't see them everyday. I can tell you, I don't know a single issue on a Corvette that can make it be in the shop longer then a week. I've had two issues that took 31 days to fix!

Jason

 

[2000_Black_RT10]

My last project was a 572 c.i. / 9.4 L Hemi, there is no replacement for displacement.

Toss a supercharger or twin hairdryers on the V10, there is more potential in a Viper engine period.

The new SS is not normally aspirated, can you imagine if the SRT chose to add some pressure..

Chrysler reigns in power, look at top fuel, etc.. the next best thing I would like to see from Chrysler is a V10 Hemi.

 

[Whoaa]

As Vipera mentioned earlier, who really cares about 0-60 times. Any car can be made to be relatively quick up to 60 with sticky tires and gearing.

 

[SnakeBitten]

I also dont know how there are still people that think the acceleration between the two is close...check the 0-150mph times....Not even remotely close...Z06 gets there in almost 4 seconds sooner....Not close straightline.....On the circuit track however, its close....Kinda like the Gen II vs the C5 Z06.....GTS/RT10 would hand it its ass in straightline acceleration but its a drivers race on a roadcourse.....

 

[Mopar488]

Even if the Z06 is faster?, I will tell you of a recent experience I had a couple of weeks ago at a local hot rod hang out for mainly muscle cars. I pulled in and there was a sharp new black ZO6 center stage, hood open, star of the show. I pulled in with my nearly 12 year old B/W GTS and it was getting a lot of attention, even one of the ZO6 groupie girls couldn't help but tell me I had a pretty car. I felt kind of bad stealing some of the thunder from the Z, but the two cars are not in the same class no matter how fast the z gets. A corvette is still a corvette and a Viper is a Viper.

 

[Disturbed]

3130 @ 505hp = 6.198

3400 @ 600hp = 5.666

For the viper to have the same p:w ratio as the vette (6.198) simply take that number x 600hp. That comes to 3718.8


Even when you factor in gearing. It will not make up for that much of a loss. And we haven't even started to talk about TQ yet. C6Z06 < 08 Viper.


I have no idea why anyone(unless the are a vette lover) would think that the new viper isn't going to hand the vette it's a$$ on a silver platter. We haven't even gone into the new tires, trans and re-calibrated suspension yet. It was close before, but it's just going to be a blow out now.

 

[SnakeBitten]

3130 @ 505hp = 6.198

3400 @ 600hp = 5.666

For the viper to have the same p:w ratio as the vette (6.198) simply take that number x 600hp. That comes to 3718.8


Even when you factor in gearing. It will not make up for that much of a loss. And we haven't even started to talk about TQ yet. C6Z06 < 08 Viper.


I have no idea why anyone(unless the are a vette lover) would think that the new viper isn't going to hand the vette it's a$$ on a silver platter. We haven't even gone into the new tires, trans and re-calibrated suspension yet. It was close before, but it's just going to be a blow out now.

I have no doubt that the new Viper will beat the Z06 in the straights....But keep in mind that the Z06 got revised suspension for 07 which makes it even better in the turns...In a recent test it shaved almost 3 seconds of a lap of VIR over the 06 Z06 due to the better suspension according to C&D.....Thats around 3 secs faster then the SRT coupe they tested a few months earlier....So the handling advantage may not be much if any for the new Viper but depending on track it should beat the Z06.....I dont think it will be a blow out on circuit tracks and I think it will be close acceleration wise up to about 130mph then the Snake will take over....The Vettes gearing will make it a close race for anything under that mph imho....

No Im not a vette lover persay Im a carnut.....Just looking at it from the outside looking in...Dont own either car...But I think with minor tweaks Chevy can match the Viper with a little bump in power to around 530-540hp....Obviously not talking about the SS....Either way I hope the Viper regains the king of the hill title but I doubt it will relive its outright dominance over the Vette anymore...Those days are long gone. Us guys that were around in the begining are spoiled because of the Gen I-II dominance on street or track.....Ive long since realised that that gap will no longer fly at GM.......They are just as serious as SRT.....This competition has already made both of them world beaters in there class....I love it

 

[George Murray]

If it matters to be a tenth quicker, just don't order stuff like those pu$$y nav systems and the like on your '08. Then, after taking delivery, rip out the carpet, headliner, trunk liner, eat nutri-system colon blow chow for a while, then wash it down with Mr. Clean Auto-Dry. Chevy weight advantage nullified.

 

[Vipera]

George,
You need to buy a few more Vipers!! LOL

 

[RTTTTed]

A viper is a Viper. They're all fast.

A vette is just a car unless it's a Z06. If Chrysler made a 5L Viper it would make the rest of our 8L cars look bad. They didn't.

I've seen 3 Z06's learned to stay away from vettes with Viper tires on them while driving my Stealth R/T TT, at least until I get my new Turbos on it. While driving my sc'd Viper I don't worry about any other cars.

A magazine I read said that the Z06 was getting a supercharger to build 650hp. Good for them. Maybe next year I'll need to worry about adding a bigger supercharger? I have dreams of an 08 supercharged Viper in my garage at night, lol.

Add a supercharger to the 08 - if GM does - and what hp numbers should we expect, 8-900hp?

The magazine also said that Ford stated that the '08 GT will also produce 650hp.

Chrysler developed Turbo cars with the 2.2L to a fine art. The Turbo 1 engine made nearly double the n/a engine's hp (154 compared to 84) and the limited production TIII engine made 224hp.

I imagine if they wanted to Chrysler could build a reliable TT 8L that would be insane.

When I put my Viper in the local car show it was only 4 spots away from an '02 vette. Hardly anyone even looked at the vette. They were all looking at my Viper, and I took home the trophy!

Ted

 

[Vipermann]

Mags and some owners have gotten the Z06 to do 11.3-11.5 @ 125-127 mph with one that I know of [Ranger] that has gotten 11.0@ 129mph......The 08 has to surpass those [non Ranger] numbers to be king of the hill....

Also the Car and Driver Lightening lap test of a few months back have the Viper .5 slower than the Z06 around VIR 4+ mile course....That was the 06 Z06 they tested the Viper against......They were both around the 3:01 mark....Very close

The new issue out now has the 07 Z06[revised shocks etc] hitting the Lightening Lap....No Viper this time just the GT3 and Turbo Porsche and AWD R8 as its only serious challengers....The 07 Z06 did 2:58 secs....First car to break the 3 minute mark and it absolutely destroyed the Porsches and Audi......So the 07 Z06 is more potent and may actually give the 08 a serious run...The 07 Z06 hooks better and corners much better than the 06 Z06.....Teh 08 has its work cut out for it.....

BTW non of the other cars beat the Vipers time from the last Lightening Lap....yes not even the GT3 Porsche....They were close though....The 08 only real competition it seems will be the Z06 and maybe the GT2 Porsche that is about to be released...

... ummm, true ... but the '06 Viper could have made up that road course difference just with better, non-run-crap tires (like the '08 will have, even without the HP and other improvements) ... and,

when you're down to .5 sec a lap diff on a 4 mile course ... it's really a driver's race, even at that point ... a good driver vs. avg driver would equal 2-3+ second difference per lap

finally, a 700HP Corvette SS? who cares. it's all blower at that point and it will only be a very limited-production, token/magazine car anyway, and everyone know's GM will be trading away reliability to do that ... Dodge could do it too if they wanted (800HP+?), and any Viper owner can do it too ... a V-10 (c-o-n-v-e-r-t-i-b-l-e) with 600HP n/a? sign me up.

 

[SnakeBitten]

... ummm, true ... but the '06 Viper could have made up that road course difference just with better, non-run-crap tires (like the '08 will have, even without the HP and other improvements) ... and,

when you're down to .5 sec a lap diff on a 4 mile course ... it's really a driver's race, even at that point ... a good driver vs. avg driver would equal 2-3+ second difference per lap

finally, a 700HP Corvette SS? who cares. it's all blower at that point and it will only be a very limited-production, token/magazine car anyway, and everyone know's GM will be trading away reliability to do that ... Dodge could do it too if they wanted (800HP+?), and any Viper owner can do it too ... a V-10 (c-o-n-v-e-r-t-i-b-l-e) with 600HP n/a? sign me up.

Run what you brung....The Z06 has crappy tires from factory too....And you are not getting what Im saying....06 to 06 its a drivers race as Ive said. .5 could be made up by taking a better line here or there no need for tire change etc...Its a dead heat...But the 07 Z06 was faster by almost 3 secs than both the 06 Z06 and 06 Viper.....I still believe had C&D brought back the Viper/FGT in this latest test they would have cracked the 3 min barrier as well...I think the learning curve of the track and the cars paid off the second time around....All the cars they brought back did phenomally better...Come on now a GT500 is within 2 secs of a Viper on VIR....And check out the regular Vette...A 6 sec improvement...I dont buy there story of gremlins etc in the first test...They just learned the track and cars better this time around...

BTW hope you noticed that the Viper/Z06/Ford GT were all faster than the Porsche 911 TT and GT3 which comes with race rubber.....Gotta love how far American sportscars have come....

 

[NHL2133]

A viper is a Viper. They're all fast.

A vette is just a car unless it's a Z06. If Chrysler made a 5L Viper it would make the rest of our 8L cars look bad. They didn't.

I've seen 3 Z06's learned to stay away from vettes with Viper tires on them while driving my Stealth R/T TT, at least until I get my new Turbos on it. While driving my sc'd Viper I don't worry about any other cars.

A magazine I read said that the Z06 was getting a supercharger to build 650hp. Good for them. Maybe next year I'll need to worry about adding a bigger supercharger? I have dreams of an 08 supercharged Viper in my garage at night, lol.

Add a supercharger to the 08 - if GM does - and what hp numbers should we expect, 8-900hp?

The magazine also said that Ford stated that the '08 GT will also produce 650hp.

Chrysler developed Turbo cars with the 2.2L to a fine art. The Turbo 1 engine made nearly double the n/a engine's hp (154 compared to 84) and the limited production TIII engine made 224hp.

I imagine if they wanted to Chrysler could build a reliable TT 8L that would be insane.

When I put my Viper in the local car show it was only 4 spots away from an '02 vette. Hardly anyone even looked at the vette. They were all looking at my Viper, and I took home the trophy!

Ted

Which ever mag. you were reading from has no credibility (IMO) if they say there with be a 2008 GT. The GT had a two year run that ended last year. That means no 08, and no 650hp.
The whole supercharged "super vette" is likely misinformation as well. Depending on what magazine you read, and which month you read it, you'll hear horse power numbers from 600 to 700, and engine sizes from 6.8 to over 7. And they all say they have a reliable source. Basically, no one knows anything about the "super vette" and I still think the whole thing is.

 

[Wicked]

I don't think we'll see a super vett. I think we'll see a C7 and the powerplant they are testing will go right into the new Z06. They are saying they will do a new body style for the corvette in 2010 and if that's the case why would they come out with a Blue Devil for 1 MY. Even if the Vett comes out in 2011, I just don't see them doing all that work for a 'Super Corvette' and have it for 2 years. Not seeing it.

Jason

 

[Vipermann]

The current C6 Vette will be around until at least the 2112 model year. The C5 lasted 8 years, and that was a quick turn-around for the Vette. The C4 before that lasted something like 15 years without a total change. There have been pictures of a Z06 with a blower floating around for a while, and talk of a Blue Devil for years, so it's very possible GM could bring out an 'SS' to keep the C6 design alive for the last few years of it's run, since it is going to be here for a while.

Still, any SS Vette will be a blower design in a $100K+ car that starts with a base price in the $40s -- no thanks -- I'm glad there are no $40-something 'base' Vipers.

 

[black mamba1]

DC is not worried at all about the current z06 nor any so-called upcoming Corvette SS or Blue Devil or anything like that. The SRT guys started working on the 08 Viper in 2005, in response to what they knew was on the horizon, the current Z06. The 08 Viper has a much higher red line, and very restricted VENOM programming to meet emissions, yet it still produces 600 hp...one can easily ascertain that w/ less restrictive programming alone you might be close to 630-640 hp or more. The 08 even has a dip in the torque curve at low rpm vs the 03-06, this means better traction in my view along w/ better tires. 90 plus horses, better tires, higher red-line. All this translates into CONSISTENT 08 factory Viper times of very low 11's in the 1/4 mile. The gap will widen significantly in the 1/2 mile and mile w/ the current Z06 from the extra power.
NOW, about this so-called Blue Devil Corvette...again DC is not worried. They admitted the 08 was produced in only 2 yrs, a very rushed schedule for a new Gen Viper. But they are still working and tweaking things, and they say that no matter what GM makes, they will be ready to top it! (see Viper quarterly mag)
Take it easy guys, I ran across a 06 z06 yesterday on open highway. He heard my exhaust and decided not to play, the competition never knows how poisonous any of our snakes are!....VIPERS ARE STILL VIPERS!!

 

[Vipermann]

Mags and some owners have gotten the Z06 to do 11.3-11.5 @ 125-127 mph with one that I know of [Ranger] that has gotten 11.0@ 129mph......The 08 has to surpass those [non Ranger] numbers to be king of the hill....

Ahemm ... a lot of hype, and some to be taken with a grain of salt. Here's a real world post from a vette forum about 12+ sec 1/4 mile times for an '07. And here's "Ranger's" response (so professional, as not even to be compared with normal 1/4 mile times):

July 2, 2007:
"...Went to drags at Fontana yesterday with the 07 (C6) with some interesting and curious results...Made four runs with DA between 3500 & 4700...Temps between high 85 to 98 degrees on the last run...Smoking hot all day which made the cars' temp at launch of 210 or higher on all runs...60 fts from 2.04 to 2.10 ... ETs were 12.41, 12.20 12.11 & 12.10 with a best MPH of 123.24 ..."

"...I've posted many times that I've data logged my passes in an effort to better understand the car's reaction to different driving techniques. When you do that, you learn many things without ever altering the PCM file.

So, log some passes with power shifts; then log some passes without power shifts. Compare the log files to determine the PCM's reaction to each. A good tuner will alter the settings that bring on the power-shift penalty I observed. Ranger"

 

[black mamba1]

Vipermann, I am not surprised by the Vettes problems. I rented an 06 conv. Vette w/ 200 miles on it for my wife while in Vegas. On the second day the convertible top malfunctioned. I simply do not think you can mass produce a car w/ 500+ hp. Cars like that should be hand made by specialists, not part of some transformer type assembly line. just my opinion!

 

[trumper Z06]

Vipermann, I am not surprised by the Vettes problems. I rented an 06 conv. Vette w/ 200 miles on it for my wife while in Vegas. On the second day the convertible top malfunctioned. I simply do not think you can mass produce a car w/ 500+ hp. Cars like that should be hand made by specialists, not part of some transformer type assembly line. just my opinion!

Hhmmm... The C-6 Z06 engine is hand assembled at a seperate engine plant.

The Z06 has many "Unique" parts which include the transmission and rear end assembly. All the chassis hardware is torqued and checked a second time... then a paint stripe is applied.

IMO... the C-5 Z06 was pretty much a stock C-5 with a more powerful engine and an upgraded suspension. I owned two of them so I have hands on experience. The C-6 Z06 is an entirely different animial... about the only items that are "standard C-6" are in the interior.

On a road course... the C-5 Z06 would stick with any of the stock Vipers... it really came down to the driver. Having instructed for Viper Days since 2001... I've been there & done that. The C-6 Z06 has Major improvements and is really in a different league !!!

Let's see what the 08 Viper brings to the track...

Additional horsepower without a major chassis upgrade won't enable the 08 Viper to surpass the current Z06 !!!!

 

[PDCjonny]

Typical Vette second class citizen mentality.
The Vette gets the edge in horsepower for two years, and it "KILLS" the Viper in every respect. The Viper comes back and reclaims the horsepower title along with many other refinements, and it's a "drivers race".
Face it, Vettes are back to second place where they belong.

 

[trumper Z06]

Typical Vette second class citizen mentality.
The Vette gets the edge in horsepower for two years, and it "KILLS" the Viper in every respect. The Viper comes back and reclaims the horsepower title along with many other refinements, and it's a "drivers race".
Face it, Vettes are back to second place where they belong.

Hhmmm... and what experience do you have...driving the two brands on a road course???

Yep.... that's what I thought !!!

None... right !!!

 

[Alexarz]

For what it is worth, I bought an '06 Viper coupe (1st Viper for me) and always had vettes before that. I could have bought a Z06 but found the Viper to be of much higher quality and with far more performance potential (plan on Heffner turbo). A week or so ago, I saw some Z06's at a dealer near my house so I wandered in. I got to talking to the salesperson and he took my information and approved me for a loan (my Viper was paid for in cash). I told him I would think about it. The following week, I bought a 2000 GTS with only 12k miles on it (the one in my avatar). I preferred a 7 year old Viper, albeit in great shape, over a new Z06. It's a far more beautiful, better made automobile.

 

[PDCjonny]

Hhmmm... and what experience do you have...driving the two brands on a road course???

Yep.... that's what I thought !!!

None... right !!!

Same as you when talking about the 08 Viper ******, none.
How bout you head back to oldmanvette.com where you came from?

 

[trumper Z06]

The threads title is " *** - Z06 still faster " !!!

~ Half the posts here are off topic:

Gee... the viper is more... Rare... must be a steak addit

Z06's look like all the other Corvettes... there's major differences, some visible/some not !!!

If I mod my viper... it's faster... Hhmmm... Vettes have been known to be modded too !

Etc. and so on !!!

Some of you guys are in Denial... those who actually take it to the track (ie. road courses, events like Viper Days)...

Know that stock vs. stock, the C-5 Z06 vs the Viper, it came down to the driver!!!

The new C-6 Z06 is much improved and really is...

in a different League !!!

We ALL are waiting for the arrival of the 2008 Viper, and waiting to see what it can do... ON A TRACK !!

 

[trumper Z06]

Same as you when talking about the 08 Viper ******, none.
How bout you head back to oldmanvette.com where you came from?

A little "touchy" there...

huh Cupcake !!!

 

[Viper X]

Z06 boy,
_________________________________________________________
"On a road course... the C-5 Z06 would stick with any of the stock Vipers... it really came down to the driver. Having instructed for Viper Days since 2001... I've been there & done that. The C-6 Z06 has Major improvements and is really in a different league !!!"
_________________________________________________________

Yes, the C-6 Z06 is in a different league than the C-5 Z06. I've seen many more of the C-6 Z06's blow up at the race track. If you're planning to do a road course with a C-6 Z06, bring it on a trailer!

_________________________________________________________
"Additional horsepower without a major chassis upgrade won't enable the 08 Viper to surpass the current Z06 !!!!"
__________________________________________________________

The current 2006 Viper is already at least equal to the current Z-06 on a road course, depending on the driver. I had no problems beating up an several C-6 ZO6's in my (old) 2001 GTS ACR. Add 100 hp to the 2006 Viper and a revised shock / tire combo as planned and there's very little chance for the vette with equal drivers. Time will tell.

 

[black mamba1]

The threads title is " *** - Z06 still faster " !!!

~ Half the posts here are off topic:

Gee... the viper is more... Rare... must be a steak addit

Z06's look like all the other Corvettes... there's major differences, some visible/some not !!!

If I mod my viper... it's faster... Hhmmm... Vettes have been known to be modded too !

Etc. and so on !!!

Some of you guys are in Denial... those who actually take it to the track (ie. road courses, events like Viper Days)...

Know that stock vs. stock, the C-5 Z06 vs the Viper, it came down to the driver!!!

The new C-6 Z06 is much improved and really is...

in a different League !!!

We ALL are waiting for the arrival of the 2008 Viper, and waiting to see what it can do... ON A TRACK !!

ok, enough of this nonsense.

Anybody who has been to the track knows that there are highly modded Audi S-4's, Toyota Supras, Evo's, even BMW M3's that can embarrass the crap out of a Z06 or a Viper. At Limerock one of the instructors had an Infiniti G series car w/ 500 rwhp! He stomped many of the Vipers out there that day.

My point is that you can take just about any sporty car and w/ enough $$ and mods get it to do some amazing things speed wise.....BUT.....that is not why we buy certain sports cars. The Z06 is an amazing sports car...but so is the BMW M3, but neither of them will never hold the nostalgia or fit the exotic nature of a Viper. The fact of the matter is that the Viper will ALWAYS be much more exotic, and w/ a little tweaking will stomp the snot out of the Z06...but then u can tweak the ZO6, just like you can tweak the Infiniti G....it can just go on and on...that is why we have some 1500 hp Vipers out there now!

But, no matter how much someone tweaks their sports car, there is only one and only one Viper.

Period.

 

[trumper Z06]

I like the hp competition, keeps things alive

Will be interesting to see how the Blue Devil runs against the '08 Viper

Had to go to one of the earlist posts... to find one...

ON TOPIC !!!

Until we see an 08 viper on the track...

It's all conjecture !!!



Enough of this back slapping... fanny patting... viper admiration society.

I think I'll wait to see what the 08 can do... ON A TRACK !!!

Adios...

 

[Vipermann]

Had to go to one of the earlist posts... to find one...

ON TOPIC !!!

Until we see an 08 viper on the track...

It's all conjecture !!!



Enough of this back slapping... fanny patting... viper admiration society.

I think I'll wait to see what the 08 can do... ON A TRACK !!!

Adios...

Hey trumper, don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out ... fess up, you're a Vette fanatic, 'posing' to objective here. You helped at Viper days? doing what? setting up cones?

You say you've owned two C5 Z06s and claim they can keep up with an SRT on a track? What kind of track? autocross? maybe. But any long road course with decent straights, no way jose. And you must be talking about a modded C5 Z06, as nearly all of them are.

I also owned a C5. Highly modded. It was a POS compared to my '05 Viper. I've also tracked both cars. They're not as close as you say.

And the most obvious: you used this in nearly all of you posts ... you're mighty proud of yourself trashing Vipers here, huh?