Z06 vs. 05 Viper (with 3 mods.)

[bluestreak]

Holy Crack Jacks!

Are you serious are you just plain dumb? My point is with the videos, how many races you think have gone down on the streets between a Vette and Viper that have never been recorded? The outcomes to every race, I would not know, but I know that the Vette does not win 1/2 the time.

Now you are just stabbing in the dark with your *** car references. Lets help you shoot yourself here. First, the Skyline, NOT FOR SALE IN AMERICA (Don't tell me that it is a Z with some extras, cause it is not). Not only that, have you seen a Skyline run in person before? I have many times, there is a local guy here with one and he brings it to the track all the time. And everytime he brings it, all you ricer punks' ******* get all wet. The thing runs 14s...high 13s 1/4 mile.

The NSX, do you know anything about this car? This car is a mid engine car that was built for handling, perferrably road racing. The car has no performance qualities in the 1/4 mile. That car has no TQ to shake a stick at.

The Z, I hope you are not talking about a 350Z, cause then you are a true ricer so get off this site. My LITTLE brother owns a 350Z, and it is a good girl car.

Now, finally, the FGT, do you know that the car is a S/C V8? Wow you out did yourself on that one, coming up with a car that can beat a Viper with a S/C.

BTW, you did not even finish you last sentence about betting money with Mitsu so I don't know what you are trying to say.

So don't even start with cars cause you have no clue about anything, let alone cars.

Back to the Vette, people buy cars such as Vettes and Vipers, 1st and foremost for the brand. It is called brand loyalty. Companies spend billions of dollars every year promoting their brand. I for one am a Mopar guy, eveything car I own is a Chrysler product. And that is the same reason why a GM would buy a Camaro before a Mustang.

Ok let end this because obviously you have no clue as to how things work. Answer this question with a yes or no answer.

Do you think that Vette guys would go buy a Mitsu for 70k if the performance was comprable to a Vette or maybe a little better instead of their Vette?

Determined not to be proven wrong? I am talking about prices you imbecile! There have been a few Skylines imported to the states and the guys that bought them paid 80k or more after shipping and all that. If you dont know anything about the Z06 then you shouldnt talk about it but the Z06 was made for road racing just like the NSX. It obviously was not made for drag racing with the traction management and weak rear end.

I have to assume you are joking because there is no way you could own a viper and be that uninformed. Vette guys arent gonna pay 70k for a mitsu, your right, MITSU GUYS WILL PAY 70K, for the fastest stock car under 180k. That is brand loyalty. What the hell are you talking about? do you even know? Your so dumb its aggravating. you keep trying to make points that are not relevant to the main point to save face.

I mentioned the Ford GT because it's the next cheapest car you can by that can beat the corvette in stock form. I'm done with you until you make a point worht responding to

 

[Fadi]

But has he taken into consideration that aftermarket wheels and exhaust drops can result in a weight loss of over 80 lbs for the Viper? (note I dropped 53.6 lbs with new wheels and Sport Cup tires and well over 30 lbs in exhaust)

By dropping the 80 lbs and adding 1 180 lb person in each car (I assume they are not driven by remote control) and only 475 hp is required to provide an equal 7.35 power to weight ratio. That is in the doable range for bolt ons. Agree?

I was talking about bone stock vs. bone stock. I can simply say " By removing the airfilter on the Z06 and getting a tune..." which, btw, would add about 30 rwhp and get rid of TM on the car.

What does it take for a Viper to push 490 rwhp to the tires? Are all the bolt on mods enough to do so?

 

[Fadi]

Now, finally, the FGT, do you know that the car is a S/C V8? Wow you out did yourself on that one, coming up with a car that can beat a Viper with a S/C.

Don't mean to get in on your UFC match with Blue, but, a Viper with a SC would DESTROY a stock GT. Just a FYI..

 

[GR8_ASP]

I thought the question was: what add ons does it take to make the Viper equal to the vette for the 1/4 mile (or acceleration in general). Does that ask anything about stock vs stock? NO! Did it ask ANYTHING about how/what to modify on a vette? NO!

And, for most car owners, except vette people, air cleaners and recalibrations are not BONE STOCK. Bone stock is as you buy it off the show room. Period.

So back to my point if you add wheels and tires (not necessarily more traction - Pilot Sports at 345x18) and light weight wheels, add a Mopar or Corsa exhaust and a few other minor things you could get to 475 RWHP while reducing the weight by 80 or 90 lbs. At that point I believe it would be very competitive with the stock Z06. Got it? That is the answer to the initial question on this post.

 

[Viper23]

[/QUOTE]

Determined not to be proven wrong? I am talking about prices you imbecile! There have been a few Skylines imported to the states and the guys that bought them paid 80k or more after shipping and all that. If you dont know anything about the Z06 then you shouldnt talk about it but the Z06 was made for road racing just like the NSX. It obviously was not made for drag racing with the traction management and weak rear end.

I have to assume you are joking because there is no way you could own a viper and be that uninformed. Vette guys arent gonna pay 70k for a mitsu, your right, MITSU GUYS WILL PAY 70K, for the fastest stock car under 180k. That is brand loyalty. What the hell are you talking about? do you even know? Your so dumb its aggravating. you keep trying to make points that are not relevant to the main point to save face.
quote]

Have you ever driven on the road course before? Wait, what the dumb question go post a video with a guy with his TC on while on a road couse and prove me worng. Go and asked people who have done it before you talk idiot. Who the heck has their traction control on when the road race?

That is my point *****, that is why they bought a Vette Z06 for 70K 1st and foremost because it was a Vette. You were the idiot that made a comment about no matter how the car looks, with that performance people would still buy it in a reply to my comment above.

So you answered my question, corvette guys would buy a 70K Vette. Then why the heck are you arguing with me. Vette guys pay 40-50k for a regular Vette, because it is Vette and are paying the mark-up for the performance. I never said the 70k price was not justified. It is the same reason I would buy a New Viper for 90k or maybe 100k with 650 N/A HP.

 

[GR8_ASP]

On a side note why is it that Vette people have such disdain for Viper people (and visa versa)?

When I drive and pass by a Ford GT, Ferrari, Lambo or similar vehicle I usually give and receive a wave. If we are parked somewhere we talk together about each others cars and generally get along well.

But not Corvette people. When we pass on the road they look away. When we park they avoid us. Why is that? The Z06 since its inception has been the closest car to the Viper in terms of cost and performance and yet the owners have the least in common. Strange.

 

[bluestreak]

Have you ever driven on the road course before? Wait, what the dumb question go post a video with a guy with his TC on while on a road couse and prove me worng. Go and asked people who have done it before you talk idiot. Who the heck has their traction control on when the road race?

That is my point *****, that is why they bought a Vette Z06 for 70K 1st and foremost because it was a Vette. You were the idiot that made a comment about no matter how the car looks, with that performance people would still buy it in a reply to my comment above.

So you answered my question, corvette guys would buy a 70K Vette. Then why the heck are you arguing with me. Vette guys pay 40-50k for a regular Vette, because it is Vette and are paying the mark-up for the performance. I never said the 70k price was not justified. It is the same reason I would buy a New Viper for 90k or maybe 100k with 650 N/A HP.

HAHAHAHAH Now I know you cant read. Traction Management system and traction control are two different things SLAPPY!!!!!!

And yes I have driven a Road Course several times and my instructor told me that if your TC (traction control for th people who cant comprehend) is cutting on you are doig something wrong. It's hard as hell to drive like that because I tried it but it does make some sense. Have you driven a road course before? Your last post suggest I go talk to someone who has so I guess that doesnt include YOU!

You were the one who said the car only sells because it's a vette which is wrong, it would sell with the same perfomance if its was a mustang, a viper, a skyline, a nsx, a WRX, a EVO, a Supra or whatever other performance car you can think of. You just need to admit that was an ass backwards comment.

YOU LOSE

 

[SnakeBitten]

Disregarding all the [******] that leaked into this thread the bottomline is that it will take ALOT to allow the current Viper to take down the new Z06...That is just the simple fact....Once you start mentioning changing rims and tires, Intake/Exhaust/Headers, gears, weight reduction, tuning etc you are going to be shelling out quite a few thousand dollars just to run WITH a Z06...If that isnt enough of a reality check for some of you than nothing else will...You are delusional...

Basic mods will only allow the Viper to "et" on par with the Z06 in the 1/4 but it will be killed on the highway...That takes nothing away from the Vipers allure....Im a Viper nut and I like its looks better than the Z06 but the Z06, stock to stock, is not just the better all around car, its also the better performance car period...No amount of clowning and putting it down is going to change that...You can throw all the [******] talking you want at the Z06 but when you hit the road [******] gets walked....

 

[bigmike32172]

LMAO! ok for everyone in this thread that keeps bickering please remember this old saying: "who is more of a fool, the fool or the one that argues with one?"

 

[Fadi]

I thought the question was: what add ons does it take to make the Viper equal to the vette for the 1/4 mile (or acceleration in general). Does that ask anything about stock vs stock? NO! Did it ask ANYTHING about how/what to modify on a vette? NO!

And, for most car owners, except vette people, air cleaners and recalibrations are not BONE STOCK. Bone stock is as you buy it off the show room. Period.

So back to my point if you add wheels and tires (not necessarily more traction - Pilot Sports at 345x18) and light weight wheels, add a Mopar or Corsa exhaust and a few other minor things you could get to 475 RWHP while reducing the weight by 80 or 90 lbs. At that point I believe it would be very competitive with the stock Z06. Got it? That is the answer to the initial question on this post.

I said what I thought it would take for the Viper to be even with the Z06. "Lankhoss" than said "I agree with Fadi", and then you said "But did he...". So, given the sequence of events in regards to the replies, and the fact that it is 7 pages later, I thought when you said "He" directly after "Lankhoss" has replied, that you were refering to me. Next time make it clear who you are refering to before you get all riled up.

And, as far as your conclusion, you are still short. If the Viper were to drop 80-90 lbs, that would put it at approx. 3300 lbs. At 3300 lbs, the Viper would still need over 475 rwhp to just match the power/weight of the Z06.

3380 / 475 = 7.11
3132 / 450 = 6.96

And this is not taking the Z06 optimal gear into consideration.

Like I said before, and just by looking at numbers, it will take about 500 rwhp for the Viper to beat a Z06 from a roll.

 

[Fadi]

On a side note why is it that Vette people have such disdain for Viper people (and visa versa)?

When I drive and pass by a Ford GT, Ferrari, Lambo or similar vehicle I usually give and receive a wave. If we are parked somewhere we talk together about each others cars and generally get along well.

But not Corvette people. When we pass on the road they look away. When we park they avoid us. Why is that? The Z06 since its inception has been the closest car to the Viper in terms of cost and performance and yet the owners have the least in common. Strange.

Lets not put ALL Corvette people in that stereotypical category. I am a car guy also, love all car makes (Yes, I do like Vipers, that is why I initially purchased it), and always get giggly when I see another great performing car/exotic on the road/parking lot.

 

[lankhoss]

So the Z06 could POSSIBLY be into the 10's without adding any horespower.....just drag radials and taking torque management off. I'm basing this off of posts made by Ranger. He was able to pick up .4 seconds in the 1320 with DR's with the C5 Z06, but only .1 with the C6. He said it was directly related to the TM. Also, even though the Vette has a lower final drive, the individual gears are very steep. The shift points are actually very similar.

Hey Lank:

Most of the things you mentioned are great except for the above. Either Ranger is a great driver or he is blowing smoke. Either way, this is the reason why all the Vette guys I have talked to say that their Z06 can run 10s, stock. Cummon guy lets be serious, there is Gen 2 guy on here with stock tires (I think) that runs low 11s and I am sure he is an awesome driver, but that doesn't mean that all Gen 2 can run low 11s stock. I don't disagree with you that the Z06 is a well made car and it is fast. I actually praise Mr. Lutz for building such an awesome car with all the things he put in it, but 10s with drag radials is maybe pushing it. Now if you said 11.000000001, I might believe you...

Actually, Ranger is an AMAZING driver. You should head over to Corvetteforum.com and do a search for his name. The guy knows how to drag race Corvettes better than anyone. He holds the world record for a stock C5 Z06 (11.8@116 I believe). So, yeah...you can't compare him to regular drivers. But what I was basing my comment on, was he said on the C5 he could shave .4 seconds off the 1320 with DR's. If you could eliminate TM, and he could shave .4 off the C6 Z06, I think it would be POSSIBLE for him to hit 10's. He has run an 11.31@127 completely stock. Ran an 11.21 on DR's. So, in theory, he MIGHT be able to hit 10.91 with DR's and no TM.

That's just in theory though, and I don't know if anyone else in the world would be able to do it lol

Edit: Also, to give you a little insight about why guys buy Corvettes. I suppose you could call me a "Vette guy," but I don't blindly just follow the name. I always think they look great, and you can't find a better all around performance car for the money. But I did NOT like the C5 at all. I would not have spent money on that car. Even though it had far better performance than the C4, I just didn't like it. When the C6 came out, my jaw dropped. I think it might possibly be the best looking Vette that has ever been made. But I would spend the same amount of money on another car if it performed and looked as good as the Z. I'll give you an example. In the early 90's when the Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4 came out, it was about 40K I think. Similarly priced to a Vette, and if I'd had the money back then, I'm pretty sure I would have bought one instead of a Vette.

 

[lankhoss]

About "Corvette Guys." Maybe I'm not actually a Corvette Guy, I don't know what constitutes one. I love them, but only because they always impress me, AND I love the styling. I don't love them, just because they are Corvettes.

That being said, I would absolutely wave at a Viper, and hopefully get to pull over and talk to the guy. They're one of my FAVORITE cars to see on the road. In fact, I accidentally destroyed a Viper one night 'cause I wanted to talk to the guy (was trying to catch up to him, he tried to hot rod it in front of me and wrecked). When I hear about how these Vette guys act, it amazes me. If that's how a lot of the guys are, no wonder so many people hate them lol

I will admit, and there are lots of threads about this on the Vette forums, the C6 drivers don't do "the wave" I don't know what the deal is, but ANY C5 or C4 will wave to me when I go by, but I've actually been up NEXT to a couple of C6's, and the guys won't have to me. Arrggghh

 

[PDCjonny]

Lankhoss is starting to talk to himself...

 

[lankhoss]

I'm a pretty good conversationalist!!

 

[Viper23]

Let me clear this misconception, I do not hate Vettes. Vettes are my 2nd (maybe 3rd after the FGT) sports cars. My whole point to posting is that everyone has their preferrence, usually it is brand loyalty, that is the deciding factor as to why they purchase the car. Now I am not saying that if you have a POS Vette that Vette guys would buy it for 70k. The same goes for any car. Saying that Vette guys would rather buy a Vette than anything else if it makes sense, because it is a Vette.

This goes back to Blue man...I did not ever say that a 70k car of any kind would not sell. In fact there are cars well over 70k that sells. If you read my 1st post, I said that the heritage of the Vette is what sells the car because at one time or another everyone wanted a Vette, me included because it has been around for so long and did so well. I will bet you this, if GM demolished the Corvette brand and put another tag on that car and called it something else, they would not sell as many of them. Because, to MOST Vette guys, they don't make anything else but Vettes. It goes back to the same thought that Mitsu guys buy Mitsu and Vette guys buy Vettes.

Never did I say anything bad about the Vette. It is not the Vette I dislike, it is some of the ignorant people that own them that always talk smack and have no clue. I don't claim to be the best road course guy or drag racer, but I have enough experience to know that drivers make the biggest difference.

Lank: To your above referrence about liking the styling and how it impresses you thats why you like the car. Isn't that whats makes a corvette a corvette, because of its styling?

That is why I made the comment that Ranger must be a awesome driver to do something like that.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Mine started at 3360 or 3380 lbs if I remember correctly. Do not count todays as the weight has been increasing. Who knows why though. I thought you owned a 2003???

As to the Vette people not waving. Maybe it is accentuated in a town where the OEM interest is very high due to jobs, family or friends. But it has emmed that way through the C5 and C6 period. An example would be we had a group of 50 Ford GTs and 11 Vipers all parked where old and new Woodward meet (the Sunday before the cruise). A Z06 went by a couple of times. No stopping, no talking, no wave and then drove off. Strange but fairly typical. And no I do not mean all owners by any means. Just the typical or more frequent ones I see.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Viper23. That was a point I was trying to make. If you ever see a group of people track therir car (road or drag) you will note the same basic car performs dramatically different depending on who is driving it. And because of that in general the best driver will win, moreso on the road course but to a strong degree on the drag track. On a simple autocross course I see nearly 20% difference between the best and pretty good drivers. And I am not including novices, but those who think they are all pretty good.

 

[Viper23]

Put it this way, like I said before I am not the best drag racer, my fiend in my car can run .5 to 1 sec faster on any given day. And he is not agressive by any means, he is a much better driver.

Now, on a 40-50 roll, I am sure it would be closer because I do not have to deal with the start.

With that being said, all else being equal, a stock Z06 is faster than a stock SRT-10. But the difference in performance can be EASILY compensated by the driver.

 

[lankhoss]

Have you guys heard of Wanted 1? He is the "drag master" for Vipers. I dug up these videos, thought you guys might like them. He and Ranger had a showdown and an interview one day. I can't remember what year his Viper is, but I know it's a Gen II. Check out his times!

http://www.learntodragrace.com/images/rangerwanted1.wmv

http://www.learntodragrace.com/images/rangerwanted2.wmv

Unfortunately, the interview video is down. That stinks, because both these guys are very knowledgeable about each car.

 

[bluestreak]

Viper23. That was a point I was trying to make. If you ever see a group of people track therir car (road or drag) you will note the same basic car performs dramatically different depending on who is driving it. And because of that in general the best driver will win, moreso on the road course but to a strong degree on the drag track. On a simple autocross course I see nearly 20% difference between the best and pretty good drivers. And I am not including novices, but those who think they are all pretty good.

I completely agree with your statement. GM, Ford, Dodge are only selling cars, they dont care who buys them, therefore any pompass **** with enough dough cna own one or all of them. I agree that the performance of the cars is close enough to make it a drivers race. As I said before I think I could have beaten lankhoss at the drag strip in an SRT his first time out but on the highway I dont know as I have seen him dust at least one SRT 10. I dont know what it had but I know the vette was stock. When I get my GTS that has about 475rwhp, you bet the first person Im gonna look for is Lankhoss or some SRT to gauge it's capabilities from. Of course he has 496 RWHP now so still a big advantage, but he is still a little wet on the track so I might be able to use some savvy and sneak a couple of wins in here and there.

 

[lankhoss]

Blue, that will be a blast. I imagine you'll be killing me out of the hole, and I'll be playing catchup.

I ran a stock Skyline from a dig last night, and I was spinning all the way up to 70+ mph and didn't catch him until 75 or 80mph lol

 

[Fadi]

Mine started at 3360 or 3380 lbs if I remember correctly. Do not count todays as the weight has been increasing. Who knows why though. I thought you owned a 2003???

No, I had an 04..

And the lowest weight I have seen for an SRT-10 vert is 3380 lbs.

 

[bluestreak]

Blue, that will be a blast. I imagine you'll be killing me out of the hole, and I'll be playing catchup.

I ran a stock Skyline from a dig last night, and I was spinning all the way up to 70+ mph and didn't catch him until 75 or 80mph lol

Dude I was only going consistant 2.0 60' times which isnt all that great. Once you get the hang of that car you will run 1.8' and 1.9's on the stock tires although with all the driving you do you might need some new tires by now. In fact I know the viper I'm getting needs some new tires so that's first up for me. Then brakes, then heads and cam.

 

[03CobraAV8R]

Blue, you're a damn good driver from what I've seen, can launch and powershift like a ****! lol. Can't wait to see your Viper when you get it.

Man, ***** that when I get my Cobra back I'll be the slowest bunch in our group with a feeble 520 RWHP, lol.

 

[Fadi]

But the difference in performance can be EASILY compensated by the driver.

I agree, and this isn't just true in regards to two cars that are close, it even relates to two cars that really aren't that close in performance. For example, when I had my 2001 C5 Z06, I raced a SRT-10 and beat it from a 40-140 roll. That SRT-10 is about 6 mph faster than me in just the 1/4, and after that it would just get worse for me, yet, I beat it from a roll. I still have this video and can PM it to you, if you would like.

Just goes to show you that driver is everything, even if the cars aren't close.

 

[Viper23]

Ok! Now since we all agree and we just have a group hug and end this thread...

I start first...sorry for all the name calling, it was un called for...lol. But it was sure fun, gave me something to do these past few days...

With that been said I will offer my help to Blue on the cam...I am putting together a N/A car now that should have over 600 RWHP (at least, I hope). And I have called around for a good cam, I have been told that this is the largest cam you can have without using an AEM or Vec 2 to tune that would not make the car sound wierd at idle. Let me know if you are interested...

 

[viper585]

I thought the question was: what add ons does it take to make the Viper equal to the vette for the 1/4 mile (or acceleration in general). Does that ask anything about stock vs stock? NO! Did it ask ANYTHING about how/what to modify on a vette? NO!

And, for most car owners, except vette people, air cleaners and recalibrations are not BONE STOCK. Bone stock is as you buy it off the show room. Period.

So back to my point if you add wheels and tires (not necessarily more traction - Pilot Sports at 345x18) and light weight wheels, add a Mopar or Corsa exhaust and a few other minor things you could get to 475 RWHP while reducing the weight by 80 or 90 lbs. At that point I believe it would be very competitive with the stock Z06. Got it? That is the answer to the initial question on this post.

That will do it. Or just slap in 3.55's. Not talking about life after the 1320...just to get to that point first.

 

[03CobraAV8R]

[Monty Python]Aaaaayee Fart in your general direction![/]

Man, this thread has been an outstanding source of entertainment. Good talk.

 

[Hiss]

It has been interesting-kind of hate to see it end.

You have heard the statement "glued to the tv" Ive been glued to the computer and this thread the last few days & nights. Oh man-maybe tonight I can get some sleep

We can talk a lot on how the two cars compare on paper, but I will agree in actual racing ,be it street or track, the driver makes all the difference in the world.

Ive had my 2006 coupe for 7 weeks, I had the opportunity at Elite Motors in Jonesboro Arkansas to drive the 2006 Z06 and the 2006 Viper Coupe. I chose the Viper. I really liked the torque of the viper ,but the style was really my deciding factor and I did get the viper for 16000 under invoice.

My decision was not made with loyalty to brand. In fact I thought sure I would get the vett. The vett was a tremendous car ,but after driving the Viper I had to have it, and I have not for a second regretted my decision.

Glad to see the making up on both sides-that takes class.