ZF-8HP90 Transmission / V-10 Viper Engine

[JAMES L SAUTER]

Greetings everyone. My 1st post, so be gentle !!

ZF-8HP90 8-Speed Auto Transmission / V-10 Viper 3rd or 4th Gen Engine
WILL THEY MOUNT TO EACHOTHER??

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[steve e]

You would need a adapter plate that you would have to fabricate your self which is not that hard if you have a Machine shop, Not sure if any company makes one, the next problem is its electronically controlled, you would need to have a stand alone ECU made for a Viper. So my answer is maybe.

 

[MoparMap]

With enough time and money I'm sure it's possible. You could check with Quicktime. They make all sorts of bellhousings and might have something, though I guess they probably deal more with clutch cars than autos as the bellhousing is often part of an automatic transmission.

 

[steve e]

Yes money can fix or make anything

 

[JAMES L SAUTER]

Next question....

What mad scientest would know HOW to do this ??

 

[MoparMap]

I think the biggest issue is just finding the conversion adapter to bolt the two together. That would be the first hurdle. Second would be if there is an independent computer that will control the transmission on its own (vs one that also runs the engine). Lastly would be actually fitting it in the car. I guess maybe that should be first, but if you didn't already have one sitting around I'd want to know I could bolt it up and control it before buying one to test fit. You might be able to get a foam mock-up version of one cheap.

 

[JAMES L SAUTER]

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Well, I went and bought the engine.. now to see if the ZF is going to work.

 

[MICHAEL WILSON]

I've done quite a few engine swaps mostly LS based but I will tell you this when I went from a standard aod transmission to a more modern 6 l e 90 it cost me more to do that swap than to do the entire engine. You need to think of things like torque converter a stand-alone computer room under that car. Like the guy said before with enough money you can do it but I truly don't think you know what you might be getting yourself into. You should price out a torque converter you might be a little shocked also you have to think of things like with that 8-speed it's like a double overdrive transmission so when you're in 8th gear the car is going to be completely balless you'll have to do something about the gears in that rear end

 

[MICHAEL WILSON]

I also forgot to mention what about the paddle shifters? There's a company that sells them for a GM but not too sure about that tranny it's pretty new not a lot of aftermarket support

 

[MICHAEL WILSON]

I think your bellhousing problem would probably be one of the easier things you would go through it's just a hunk of metal you could have that fabricated it would cost you a lot but I'm sure it could be done

 

[MoparMap]

I've done quite a few engine swaps mostly LS based but I will tell you this when I went from a standard aod transmission to a more modern 6 l e 90 it cost me more to do that swap than to do the entire engine. You need to think of things like torque converter a stand-alone computer room under that car. Like the guy said before with enough money you can do it but I truly don't think you know what you might be getting yourself into. You should price out a torque converter you might be a little shocked also you have to think of things like with that 8-speed it's like a double overdrive transmission so when you're in 8th gear the car is going to be completely balless you'll have to do something about the gears in that rear end

I wouldn't worry about the ratios that much. Not sure what the final overdrive on the 8 speed is, but the original overdrive on the Viper 6 speed is 0.5:1. Most of the extra gears in transmissions are between existing ratios to keep the engine closer to the highest efficiency point. The Viper isn't exactly a rocket in 6th, but the engine has no problem pulling the car along at low rpm either.

 

[JAMES L SAUTER]

After a little more research it looks like the stock Nag1 transmission will hold up to the V10, and no crazy wiring/computer issues

 

[MICHAEL WILSON]

That is a very wise decision you could have easily doubled the the cost of the swap if you stayed with the 8-speed. I was seriously thinking about putting a Gen 4 V10 in my BMW Z3 coupe

 

[JETSTAR]

I have looked at this several times and the problem you will run into is the the depth of the transmission oil pan.
If you take the center of the crankshaft and measure to the bottom of the engine oil pan then measure the center of the transmission to the bottom of the transmission oil pan.
You will find the transmission oil pan is about 3" lower or more.
The Viper doesn't have the room.
The rear mount Trans like the Vette is the best option but that's a whole new level of fabrication
It can be done but not easily.

 

[MoparMap]

I have looked at this several times and the problem you will run into is the the depth of the transmission oil pan.
If you take the center of the crankshaft and measure to the bottom of the engine oil pan then measure the center of the transmission to the bottom of the transmission oil pan.
You will find the transmission oil pan is about 3" lower or more.
The Viper doesn't have the room.
The rear mount Trans like the Vette is the best option but that's a whole new level of fabrication
It can be done but not easily.

So maybe this is a super dumb question and probably even more money involved, but is there such a thing as a "dry sump" automatic? Seems like it would be possible to do, but I'm not sure I've ever heard of it being done. Would be an interesting way to address the low ground clearance issue, assuming you can find a spot for the fluid tank.

 

[JETSTAR]

Automatic transmissions by nature have pans, fluid from the clutch packs and drums drain from top to bottom . The valve body is even well below the centerline. It has been done in the past but always with major modifications.
I may revisit it again when I have some free time.

 

[genM5]

i dont mean to bring up old topics, But a friend of mine makes a standalone 8hp controller that can work with any ecu, factory or aftermarket.
I currently have a fully built 8hp75z behind my n54 in my 335i. it runs amazing and is waaay faster than the 6hp was. my car makes about 920whp and pure drive train solutions built the 8hp75 for 1500hp, so far it holds up great. anyways, im about to stuff a gen5 viper engine in my e60 bmw mated to an 8hp95 awd track hawk transmission. maxxecu will be controlling the engine/ can bus and factory modules while the standalone tcu controls the transmission and transfer case. With the software you can tune the line pressures, slip points, rpm points, etc its fully tunable and you can even turn off the transfer case making 100% rear wheel drive with no damage to any moving parts. I Figured i would reply here since im about to machine the viper to dodge 8hp adpater plate and have the tcu working with any factory can system.

if anyone needs 8hp standalone info www.turbolamik.eu
it has a full diagram of wiring pinout, one could easily wire it to the dodge viper, the swap parts are the hard part since nobody makes it.

Ill check back here and post again when i have the adapter and torque converter/flex plate situation sorted out.

if anyone is interested in the cad/cam files for the adapter parts , ill give them out for free. id like to see a 1500hp turbo viper with a built 8hp transmission run down the air strip, it would be light years faster than the 6 speed cars.

Cost of stock 8hp70 on ebay = $400
cost of standalone tcu = $2000

for about 3k you could 8hp swap wth stock 8hp70 and hold 750 ft lbs (average viper owner)

for about 5k you could do the 8hp90 swap and hold 900ft lbs (supercharged viper owner)

for 12-15k you could do pure drivetrain solutions stage 2-3 8hp70 or 8hp90. their 70 is good for 1400ft lbs 1600whp, the their 8hp90 good for 1800ft lbs 2000+ whp. (calvo and the boys)

thats about half what it costs to do a built trans for a big turbo viper.

 

[spiritedcadaver]

Registered just to say I would be interested if you get the adapter and torque converter/flex plate sorted out.

 

[genM5]

as soon as i get one cut and test fit, and make sure its good i will share the info here for free.

 

[spiritedcadaver]

Any progress on this?

 

[BadAzp]

I know https://www.soundgermanautomotive.com/contact/

Has been looking into making this happen for us ram srt-10 and other resto mods.
I dont know the depth of the work yet or if someone stepped up to be the guinea pig.
Ground clearance would be a major concern for the cars but if you have a car and a ram.......
My interest is to get rid of the 48re in the qc so it pulls better when towing the rc to the track.

 

[viper 10907]

I know this is an older thread, but have there been any updates on someone making an adapter plate to mount a 8 speed to the V10? I have an '05 Ram SRT10 QC and would love to drop 8 speed ****** in it.

 

[my427cobra]

Always interested to learn stuff. So a question to James and viper 10907.

Why an 8 spd automatic? The Viper engine has so much torque you could drive around with a 2 spd Powerglide. LOL

I fully appreciate the advantages of an automatic. But why that one?

There have been some 20 plus Vipers converted to automatics under the guidance of John Donato, the Vipers Transmission Engineer. They have used GM automatics.

A fully preped TH700R4 4 spd (with overdrive) using a fully manual, constant pressure valve body can be built to handle 800 hp and gobs of torque. And no TV cables or computer.

And adapter plates are readily available.

Just wondering.

Cheers
Greg

 

[MoparMap]

I could see using a newer one just for the sake of efficiency. Old automatics pretty well sucked when it came to transferring power effectively. It used to be that automatics sucked more power out of a drivetrain than manuals, but that gap has really closed over the years. I do agree that 8 speeds feel like too much to me, but that's on anything but a semi truck with only 2000 rpm to work with.

 

[Trans Doc]

What is the reason for the auto conversion ?
I've seen many conversions where the lower frame rails were cut out to make room for the auto trans conversion. Not a good idea. Most all of the ones I've done, been involved with, were for owners with left leg issues but still wanted to drive there Viper. Very little notching to the rail and the stock belly pan installed