Gen 3 supercharger system Questions

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eaks

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Hello all,

I bought my 04 Mamba Viper a year ago. I am considering doing a paxton kit on the car. I would like to install myself and then hopefully work with a tuner to get it dialed in for fueling (I live in Calgary Alberta high altitude). I have seen kits that are tuner kits and also kits including tuning. I also have called and spoke with Davenport about pricing for a full kit installed by them.

What is required for the tuning on these cars hopefully without going standalone? What are the fueling requirements (I would plan to tune on 94)? I am looking at a couple used kits as well that might be my best bet but the one I see doesn't have any fuel upgrades or tuner/tuning.

Goal would be around 700hp if possible. I am sure later on there can be additional upgrades/pulley changes, and possible engine work.

Any comments on the above?
 
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Dan Cragin

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The complete kit comes with tuning and gets the engine up to about
670hp. An aftermarket throttle body can get you another 10hp.
A bigger air to water cooler will make the power more repeatable. If you
dyno test the car, the air fuel can be optimized with a new calibration
for the JTEC engine controller. You just need to log the airfuel and fuel
pressure when testing.

These engines are knock sensitive and the pistons are weak, so stock
boost and a colder plug is advisable.
 
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eaks

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Is the JTEC part of HP Tuners? I am a bit confused about that one. I think for now I would sit on the base setup (670hp). To run this I should be good with just tweaking to the ecu for fuel and run a colder plug? Any additional info on the JTEC tuning?

For the 670 this is all fine with the stock fuel system?

Thanks for the info
 
MoparMap

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The JTEC is the ECU that is already in the car (JTEC = Jeep Truck Engine Controller). The earlier cars had SBEC (Single Board Engine Controller) ECUs and the later ones had the Venom ECU (no clever acronym for it as far as I know). The JTEC controllers can be flashed with something like an SCT handheld tuner and maybe some other means, so you would need something like that to get a tune onto the stock ECU.
 
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eaks

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Thank you for the info MoparMap. Going back and forth on pricing for the unit so we will see if we make a deal or not.
 
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Badsnek

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a gen 3 stock bottom end maxes out around 750 whp. With that being said full exhaust, upgraded fuel system (do not run the Paxton FMU, buy bigger injectors and get a bigger in tank fuel pump) and watermeth kit normally nets you between 700-725 whp. You do not need a standalone. You can have it tuned safely on HP tuners. It only costs $50 to unlock a gen 3 computer. You only need to go to a standalone if you do engine work and want more boost/power.

If you want videos or pictures shoot me a message. My white mamba did 720 whp and my buddies white mamba did 726 whp and we have the same set ups and used the same tuner. Can also hook you up with the tuner and any parts you need.
 
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eaks

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Thanks a lot. I will send you a pm with my email and hopefully we can chat and get some details from you?
 
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Dan Cragin

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You can make big power with the Paxton System, but the engine really is the weak link. I developed all the Viper SC systems with Paxton, supplied all the test vehicles and did our own durability tests. The standard kit, as supplied worked very well and was safe.

Small changes can be made to the FMU mechanical disc's and we have a calibration for the production ECU, using production software tools that
improves overall performance safely. Torque management, WOT enrichment
delay and cooling fan on/off duration are modified.

Adding headers or removing the cats will reduce power output on the stock
Paxton kit. The reduction in backpressure lowers peak boost from 9psi to 7psi. A next smaller pulley size is required to realize more power, which will need a tensioner modification to reduce belt slip at high rpms.

A lot of power can be tuned in with water/****. The additional fueling and
cooling of the air charge allows you to run more ignition timing. Problem is,
any failure of system will cause engine failure. If you run low on water/****,
the pump fails or gets weak, your done. You can add a failsafe with warning
light and wideband system that retards the timing, but that can be a big expense. On a forged engine you can get away tuning for power, but on the
stock motor we only tuned the system for consistent power during heat soak.

On forged engines, running 15 psi (Max with Novi 2000) we could see 900 plus wheel hp. Bigger injectors, fuel rails and a complete fuel system upgrade were needed. Full exhaust without cats (they wont last). The production computer could be tuned to support this. Charge cooling upgrades were needed for repeatable power with heat soak. At this level,
driven hard, clutch and driveline upgrades were needed.

Hope this helps, your experience may vary.
 
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eaks

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Dan Cragin said:
You can make big power with the Paxton System, but the engine really is the weak link. I developed all the Viper SC systems with Paxton, supplied all the test vehicles and did our own durability tests. The standard kit, as supplied worked very well and was safe.

Small changes can be made to the FMU mechanical disc's and we have a calibration for the production ECU, using production software tools that
improves overall performance safely. Torque management, WOT enrichment
delay and cooling fan on/off duration are modified.

Adding headers or removing the cats will reduce power output on the stock
Paxton kit. The reduction in backpressure lowers peak boost from 9psi to 7psi. A next smaller pulley size is required to realize more power, which will need a tensioner modification to reduce belt slip at high rpms.

A lot of power can be tuned in with water/****. The additional fueling and
cooling of the air charge allows you to run more ignition timing. Problem is,
any failure of system will cause engine failure. If you run low on water/****,
the pump fails or gets weak, your done. You can add a failsafe with warning
light and wideband system that retards the timing, but that can be a big expense. On a forged engine you can get away tuning for power, but on the
stock motor we only tuned the system for consistent power during heat soak.

On forged engines, running 15 psi (Max with Novi 2000) we could see 900 plus wheel hp. Bigger injectors, fuel rails and a complete fuel system upgrade were needed. Full exhaust without cats (they wont last). The production computer could be tuned to support this. Charge cooling upgrades were needed for repeatable power with heat soak. At this level,
driven hard, clutch and driveline upgrades were needed.

Hope this helps, your experience may vary.
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation. I have been in touch with multiple emails to/from badsnek and he has given me a lot of information.. The supercharger kit should arrive this week and I also ordered the snow performance stage 2 **** kit which will be installed at the same time.. I have talked to havik and they will do a remote tune for me.

I would be happy with 650whp and that is my goal.. I will try and take pics and detail the install and tuning progress of the car..

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and suggestions.
 
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Badsnek

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Dan Cragin said:
You can make big power with the Paxton System, but the engine really is the weak link. I developed all the Viper SC systems with Paxton, supplied all the test vehicles and did our own durability tests. The standard kit, as supplied worked very well and was safe.

Small changes can be made to the FMU mechanical disc's and we have a calibration for the production ECU, using production software tools that
improves overall performance safely. Torque management, WOT enrichment
delay and cooling fan on/off duration are modified.

Adding headers or removing the cats will reduce power output on the stock
Paxton kit. The reduction in backpressure lowers peak boost from 9psi to 7psi. A next smaller pulley size is required to realize more power, which will need a tensioner modification to reduce belt slip at high rpms.

A lot of power can be tuned in with water/****. The additional fueling and
cooling of the air charge allows you to run more ignition timing. Problem is,
any failure of system will cause engine failure. If you run low on water/****,
the pump fails or gets weak, your done. You can add a failsafe with warning
light and wideband system that retards the timing, but that can be a big expense. On a forged engine you can get away tuning for power, but on the
stock motor we only tuned the system for consistent power during heat soak.

On forged engines, running 15 psi (Max with Novi 2000) we could see 900 plus wheel hp. Bigger injectors, fuel rails and a complete fuel system upgrade were needed. Full exhaust without cats (they wont last). The production computer could be tuned to support this. Charge cooling upgrades were needed for repeatable power with heat soak. At this level,
driven hard, clutch and driveline upgrades were needed.

Hope this helps, your experience may vary.
Click to expand...
I just want to add that my car made 661 whp with factory exhaust and no watermeth. I did not have a boost gauge at the time so I am not certain, but it should have been making 9 PSI as you stated.

When I had the full belangers headers back exhaust done (without cats) and watermeth added, I now dyno’d 720 whp. However, like you said, my Paxton kit is being utilized less and now only steadily seeing 7 psi with it occasionally spiking 8 psi. With that being said yes the watermeth kit I went with has fail safes and warning/caution lights that notify you if you are low on fluid and if there’s an issue with the pump/system. Adding the watermeth significantly helped with my heat soak issues as well. Very happy with how she sounds and performs now.

Thank you for all the work/help you’ve done for the community!
 
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