01 GTS Copper in oil and clatter.

[Indiana]

AZTVR has the right idea. It IS possible to replace all rod and main bearings WITHOUT dropping the crank or pulling the engine. The service manual actually has a procedure for doing just that. Having just done an In Car piston swap, checking the rods and mains is very easy to do...but bearings should not go bad at 30 some K miles so I would think there is probably a mechanical issue involved. The pistons are a press/interference fit (no bronze bushings). The actual bearing material my have bronze or a similar alloy under the grey layer. They are a soft metal alloy. If you are into that, the bearing is pretty much shot and to get visible particles in the filtered oil is a serious failure. But again, that just doesn't happen to a 30K motor. Also seeing as this vehicle has only been owned a short time, I wonder what the history behind it is. Before I pulled any heads, I'd drop the pan and diagnose from the bottom-up (pull the valve covers too since that is pretty easy and you can view the valvetrain action with a remote starter). When I pulled the pistons/rods on my 32K 01 GTS that had been running a ROE blower for 15K miles, the rod bearings were pretty worn IMO. Not into the bronze underlayment, but definatley had experienced some punishment (or course I had some detonation problems leading to a piston failure....it all goes hand in hand). I have had a few 100K motors with better looking rod bearings. Whatever approach you take, be logical, take notes, and eliminate potential causes one by one. Don't try and cover too many variables at the same time. And finally, don't be shy about digging into this motor. Its is really a simple design.

Thanks for the help. I will take my time.

Aaron

 

[GR8_ASP]

If its a rod bearing it will knock each revolution. If its a valve it will tap every other rotation of the crank. See if Napa has a mechanics stethoscope. Try to locate the problem before tearing into the engine.

I agree copper colored material is in all probability from a bearing. The approach to disconnect the fuel injector connector to find the problem cylinder is good. Also listening to the sound frequency and quality. Higher pitch means rod or pin, dull means main. A pin will also sound more like a double click that increases in sound magnitude with no load rev increases. A main is much more load sensitive. Good luck.

Also agree with the statement above that if it is a bearing to get the journal repolished or turned. Absolutely necessary.

 

[Indiana]

I would guess rod as I hear top noise and the motor turns over normal and with ease. I'm thinking droping the pan again and removing some bearing caps to see what we see.

 

[Indiana]

#2 rod bearing spun over. Time to pull the motor....

 

[EllowViper]

How is the rod journal on the crank??? Pics??

 

[gb66gth]

rod bearings, sorry to say. I spun one on a 300Zx a few years back. unfortunately, your looking at a full rebuild

 

[dave6666]

How many miles on the engine? Don't see where that has been mentioned.

 

[EllowViper]

5th post...30k all stock.

 

[Indiana]

How is the rod journal on the crank??? Pics??

Sorry no pics but it scuffed up the rod and the crank. Not crazy bad but I'm guessing I will need to replace the rod and turn the crank.. I'm working on pulling it this week.

 

[dave6666]

5th post...30k all stock.

Must be that damn font he uses...

 

[EllowViper]

Time to go forged !!!

 

[Indiana]

Are the rods forged on an 01? I know the pistons are not.

 

[99 R/T 10]

I want to say yes. Call Chuck Tator(914-763-3136) to be sure, but I believe the rods did not change until 2003. They should be all the same from 1996 thru 2002.

 

[Martin]

Maybe consider going with a full stroker build? I think I would - especially since it would make sense to upgrade the pistons anyhow, and a new crank isn't going to set you back too much... Couldn't hurt to throw on a set of Stryker heads while you have it apart, too

 

[99 R/T 10]

I can see it spiraling out of control already

 

[EllowViper]

LOL...we can be quick to spend other's $$$ can't we!!! Yes. Rods are forged.

 

[Martin]

LOL...we can be quick to spend other's $$$ can't we!!! Yes. Rods are forged.

The way I look at it is if something needs to get fixed, you may as well fix it right The labor is what keeps me from doing a lot of stuff these days, but if I have to tear the whole engine apart anyhow, then putting it back together with much more fun parts is a good investment.

 

[EllowViper]

..and that, in my book, is what I love the most about a Viper. It is such an easy car to wrench on. Very forgiving in many respects.