06 coupe vs C6 Z06

[Twister]

While I agree with you...

I belieave in the law of averages..

If you have one or two guys run 127-128 mph in a negative 1500 DA...But everyone else runs 123-126 mph..I just dont see how you can legitimatly say that car is a 127-128 mph car...1 or two guys did it in the best air imaginable...

The Gen3 SRT10 on the other hand has had many many many guys run 122-123 mph..Half that list is in this range....in this case the law of averages says you probally really can run a 122 or 123 mph run in a Gen3...

The Gen4 list..While quite a short list..Has what..3-4 guys that have trapped 129 mph...Your saying your car went 129 mph not 127 so I have to correct that....But if you have 3-4 guys who have hit 129 mph on a car that has only been out for two years then their is a good chance you can actually run a 129 mph trapp...

Again I belieave in averages as a representation..Not a one time fluke or amazing negaitive 1500 feet DA's..

The Vette has 1 guy running the 128 on the list and one guy running the 127 on the list...The reste are all 122-126 mph...

Dont you find that to be a huge spread..When you have a bunch running 122-123 mph and then a guy running 128 mph?????????????????

BANSHEE claims his stock gen3 SRT10 went 124 mph..

We can play that game all day were someone in a negaitive DA went 3 plus mph faster than everyoneelse in the world...Or we can look at what they really run..

 

[1BADGTS]

While I agree with you...I belieave in the law of averages..If you have one or two guys run 127-128 mph in a negative 1500 DA...But everyone else runs 123-126 mph..I just dont see how you can legitimatly say that car is a 127-128 mph car...1 or two guys did it in the best air imaginable...The Gen3 SRT10 on the other hand has had many many many guys run 122-123 mph..Half that list is in this range....in this case the law of averages says you probally really can run a 122 or 123 mph run in a Gen3...The Gen4 list..While quite a short list..Has what..3-4 guys that have trapped 129 mph...Your saying your car went 129 mph not 127 so I have to correct that....But if you have 3-4 guys who have hit 129 mph on a car that has only been out for two years then their is a good chance you can actually run a 129 mph trapp...Again I belieave in averages as a representation..Not a one time fluke or amazing negaitive 1500 feet DA's..The Vette has 1 guy running the 128 on the list and one guy running the 127 on the list...The reste are all 122-126 mph...Dont you find that to be a huge spread..When you have a bunch running 122-123 mph and then a guy running 128 mph?????????????????BANSHEE claims his stock gen3 SRT10 went 124 mph..We can play that game all day were someone in a negaitive DA went 3 plus mph faster than everyoneelse in the world...Or we can look at what they really run..

Your trying to take average runs from drivers who have NO WHERE NEAR THE ABILITY of a Smith or a Furman to get the most out of a car. Since the same driver holds records FOR THE Vette and the Viper are you trying to say that his 10 second runs in the Vette were a fluke but not the Viper.Once someone does something ONE time better than everyone else ever has its called a record and thus becomes the gold standard to beat .

 

[ENY7]

I love this discussion by the way, living in Bowling Green with a Viper.

One thing that hasn't been touched here is the fact that the Z06 motor is way more "hopped up" than our Viper motors. I'm speaking on potential per cubic inch or what the facotries squeezed out of them. That's really one big reason I bought the Viper, reliablity. I've had 700+ horse drag boat motors smash valve springs, blow up, catch fire and plenty of other stuff and know all about trying to keep something together when it's radical.
And have the bloody nuckles as testimate. The vette motor isn't "drag boat" extreme but it's closer to it's limit and closer to running into trouble than the big ass V10's are.
These Vipers have way more potential than the small block V8, obviosully, with 8+ liters, which also means they aren't being stressed as much as the vette motor when we dog on em. (I'm talking stock)
That was a big weight in my decision towards the viper. Also I've got 3 freinds with Z06's and they have all had clutch trouble. Nothing really really serious but something I wouldn't want to have to deal with for sure.
Plus the Viper really starts a conversation if your looking for exotic. That would be a no brainer.
I decided I can live with giving up a few 10th's of a second in a drag race who cares. I bought a feakin road course style car not a drag car. If I wanted a drag car I'd of built a 69 Dart.
"To each his own" though, and I still like Vetts regardless.
I had my first top down cruse yesterday in 60 degree weather so I'm still a little pumped up.

 

[bushido]

I love this discussion by the way, living in Bowling Green with a Viper.

One thing that hasn't been touched here is the fact that the Z06 motor is way more "hopped up" than our Viper motors. I'm speaking on potential per cubic inch or what the facotries squeezed out of them. That's really one big reason I bought the Viper, reliablity. I've had 700+ horse drag boat motors smash valve springs, blow up, catch fire and plenty of other stuff and know all about trying to keep something together when it's radical.
And have the bloody nuckles as testimate. The vette motor isn't "drag boat" extreme but it's closer to it's limit and closer to running into trouble than the big ass V10's are.
These Vipers have way more potential than the small block V8, obviosully, with 8+ liters, which also means they aren't being stressed as much as the vette motor when we dog on em. (I'm talking stock)
That was a big weight in my decision towards the viper. Also I've got 3 freinds with Z06's and they have all had clutch trouble. Nothing really really serious but something I wouldn't want to have to deal with for sure.

So true, and the very reason why I am keeping my Z motor stock..

 

[Twister]

Your trying to take average runs from drivers who have NO WHERE NEAR THE ABILITY of a Smith or a Furman to get the most out of a car. Since the same driver holds records FOR THE Vette and the Viper are you trying to say that his 10 second runs in the Vette were a fluke but not the Viper.Once someone does something ONE time better than everyone else ever has its called a record and thus becomes the gold standard to beat .

and this is where we will disagree every single time...did Jamie run the 10.9 at 128 mph in a stock C6Z06....Yes he did...Did jamie have NUMEROUS track outings and 1/4 mile passes in the car...Yes he did..Did Jamie have an extremely negaitive DA...Yes he did...Is that Z06 time of 128 mph a solid 3 mph faster than just about all the other C6Z06 guys?????Yes it is...


Now look at the Viper run of 10.9 at 129 mph...it was jamies first time ever at the drag strip in that car!!!!!...the da was NOT in the negaitives..And not only that but quite a few people have tied jamies 129 mph and a few have hit 130-131 mph DEAD STOCK...

IM NOT MAKEING THIS STUFF UP..HE BEAT HIS BEST EVER C6Z06 TIME THE FIRST TIME AT THE STRIP IN HIS VIPER...AND THE 129 MPH TRAPP SPEED ISNT EVEN SPECIAL...IT'S BEEN DONE BY MANY..I CANT STRESS THAT ENOUGH

 

[1BADGTS]

and this is where we will disagree every single time...did Jamie run the 10.9 at 128 mph in a stock C6Z06....Yes he did...Did jamie have NUMEROUS track outings and 1/4 mile passes in the car...Yes he did..Did Jamie have an extremely negaitive DA...Yes he did...Is that Z06 time of 128 mph a solid 3 mph faster than just about all the other C6Z06 guys?????Yes it is...


Now look at the Viper run of 10.9 at 129 mph...it was jamies first time ever at the drag strip in that car!!!!!...the da was NOT in the negaitives..And not only that but quite a few people have tied jamies 129 mph and a few have hit 130-131 mph DEAD STOCK...

IM NOT MAKEING THIS STUFF UP..HE BEAT HIS BEST EVER C6Z06 TIME THE FIRST TIME AT THE STRIP IN HIS VIPER...AND THE 129 MPH TRAPP SPEED ISNT EVEN SPECIAL...IT'S BEEN DONE BY MANY..I CANT STRESS THAT ENOUGH

A record is a record YOUR GRASPING AT STRAWS .So your also saying Jamie IS A LIAR IN THE THREAD that he states the cars were basically even (i think he of all people should know ) case being he stated the Viper was maxed out at 10.9 .Please dont make me call him to get him to respond to this as his comments on the subject ARE QUITE CLEAR AND AGAINST EVERYTHING YOUR SAYING

 

[lonestar]

Stop thread hijacking, this thread was supposed to be about the Gen III vs Z06

Have you run at Road Atlanta yet?

 

[Achilles99]

Not being a drag racer, I can see what you both are saying. 1BadGTS is saying that a record is a record, even if it's done only once out of 100 times.

Twister is saying that the more people who can repeat the task, the more reliable the car probably is at reaching that number.

Being a road racer, I would prefer to have a car that Twister is describing. If I had the choice to run lap times in car 1 of 1:28's 9 times out of 10 (and a 1:27 1 out of 10), or run car 2 at 1:26 1 time out of 10 but 1:30's the rest of the time, I'd choose car 1 even though car 2 was faster during one run.

Car 2 holds the record fastest time, but car 1 will win races more often.

I think that's Twister's point. I guess it just depends on whether you want to be the absolute fastest once, or consistently fast most of the time.

 

[Achilles99]

Have you run at Road Atlanta yet?

Yeah, I got my SCCA license from Road Atlanta 10 years ago lol. I've run it dozens of times, but no more! Track is too dangerous.

 

[lonestar]

Yeah, I got my SCCA license from Road Atlanta 10 years ago lol. I've run it dozens of times, but no more! Track is too dangerous.

I meant in your Gen III? Yes, lots of concrete walls there.

 

[Achilles99]

Nope, not willing to risk the Gen III there. That track is very unforgiving, and it doesn't have to even be your fault. Someone leaks oil, and you're into a wall. Someone spins out and changes your line, you're into a wall.

It's not a matter of if you wreck at Road Atlanta, it's a matter of when.

And yes, I've wrecked at Road Atlanta. Several times Some my fault, some not. Nothing like seeing someone's wheel coming at you when you are going towards turn 10 at 140+ mph.

 

[plumcrazy]

Evan smith and Jaime furman are gods !

 

[1BADGTS]

Not being a drag racer, I can see what you both are saying. 1BadGTS is saying that a record is a record, even if it's done only once out of 100 times.

Twister is saying that the more people who can repeat the task, the more reliable the car probably is at reaching that number.

Being a road racer, I would prefer to have a car that Twister is describing. If I had the choice to run lap times in car 1 of 1:28's 9 times out of 10 (and a 1:27 1 out of 10), or run car 2 at 1:26 1 time out of 10 but 1:30's the rest of the time, I'd choose car 1 even though car 2 was faster during one run.

Car 2 holds the record fastest time, but car 1 will win races more often.

I think that's Twister's point. I guess it just depends on whether you want to be the absolute fastest once, or consistently fast most of the time.

The problem is to take average times from drivers who dont have the ability to drive a car to its potential is absurd .For THEIR DRIVING ABILITY ONE CAR MAY BE EASIER TO TURN A BETTER TIME WITH than another- that in absolutely no way means thats what the car is capable of in the hands of a professional.The above is the exact problem one faces when you get to these power levels on street tires.

 

[Achilles99]

Why is it absurd to take times from "regular people"? I'm not a professional, and neither is 99% of the people who buy these cars.

I don't buy my cars for pros to drive, I buy them for me to drive. So, for me the car that gets consistently better times by people who are most like me ("regular people") is the faster car, at least for my intended purpose.

 

[Nine Ball]

Records do not prove which car is the best. It just proves who has the most seat time or driver skill, and who was fortunate enough to have access to a sticky dragstrip during excellent weather. A lot of favorable variables on one day.

One of these days, 1BADGTS will be involved in a thread without mentioning Evan Smith. One of these days

 

[CCBrian]

My expeience with my 06 FE Coupe and friends with 2006/07 Z06's were I was faster due to driver. Pretty equal cars on the track-ZO6's are slightly faster out of the hole but from say 60 mph roll the Viper was slightly faster...barely.Remember there are production tolerences in new cars as well so no two are alike. Now a Gen 4 will walk away....

 

[1BADGTS]

Why is it absurd to take times from "regular people"? I'm not a professional, and neither is 99% of the people who buy these cars.

I don't buy my cars for pros to drive, I buy them for me to drive. So, for me the car that gets consistently better times by people who are most like me ("regular people") is the faster car, at least for my intended purpose.

The issue was what is faster if you want to modify to say whats is faster in the hands of an saverage driver fine

 

[1BADGTS]

Records do not prove which car is the best. It just proves who has the most seat time or driver skill, and who was fortunate enough to have access to a sticky dragstrip during excellent weather. A lot of favorable variables on one day.

One of these days, 1BADGTS will be involved in a thread without mentioning Evan Smith. One of these days

The SAME driver holds all the records( a common test criteria is established )MAKE EXCUSES HOWEVER YOU WANT A RECORD IS A RECORD.

 

[PDCjonny]

One of these days, 1BADGTS will be involved in a thread without mentioning Evan Smith. One of these days

Smith and Furman MUST be great drivers, they have to drive with 1BAD hanging off their *********.

 

[Twister]

Lay off 1Badgts..HE SEEMS TO BE A TRUE ENTHUSIAST..hE JUST ROOTS FOR THE WRONG CAMP IS ALL

 

[1BADGTS]

Smith and Furman MUST be great drivers, they have to drive with 1BAD hanging off their *********.

I cant wait to meet you at an event .We will see who is hanging off whos ********* .Wait hold on you dont go to events (unless hiding on the computer is an event )

 

[1BADGTS]

Lay off 1Badgts..HE SEEMS TO BE A TRUE ENTHUSIAST..hE JUST ROOTS FOR THE WRONG CAMP IS ALL

I dont root (HELL i have driven, raced, had mag tested owned more Vipers than you can shake a stick at )i just tell it like it is .Alot of people just dont like to hear or accept the truth about certain things esp if they own that certain thing.I give you credit if it was geographically feasable for you to attend something like a test session to SEE FOR YOURSELF if what iam saying is true i think you would.Other on here would NEVER DARE to do such a thing as it would BURST THEIR BUBBLE.

 

[shooter_t1]

Smith and Furman MUST be great drivers, they have to drive with 1BAD hanging off their *********.

+++++++++rep

 

[WILDASP]

1BAD,
The question Achilles asked related to running on a road course, NOT a drag strip. He made that clear, and he has clarified it further since. I believe I told you before, that most of us who track are NOT drag racers; therefore, we really don't care which car does what on a drag strip; what we are concerned with is how the car stacks up in our chosen environment; we no more care what the record time for car X on a drag strip is, than YOU care, what the record time for car Y at the Nurburgring is. The one has NOTHING to do with the other (if it did, the ZR-1 would hold the production record at the Ring, which it does not). Entirely different environment, entirely different skill set, entirely different car qualities desired.

In short, drag racing is YOUR universe; you've made that quite clear, and if you believe that 1/4 mile times are the end-all-be-all of motorsport, that's fine with us; however, I do think we'd all be happier, if you stuck to your universe, and let us track guys stick to ours. Fair enough?

 

[1BADGTS]

What are you telling me this for OTHERS brought it up way before i did.

 

[Nine Ball]

I tell it like it is too, since I own both cars. I don't sugarcoat the facts, or my own track experiences. I report what they run, good or bad. 1BADGTS also does the same thing. This being a Viper site, many people just can't accept the outcome of these internet comparo discussions. They'd rather poke fun, talk about how common and bland Corvettes are, preach to the choir about Vipers being great cars, etc...

I've set plenty of GM LS1 drag racing records along the way, since 1998. Logged thousands of quarter-mile passes. That being said, I still like road racing much better. No name dropping required. Evan Smith. Oops, I let that one slip, must be contagious. Evan Smith. Damnit, I did it again.

Please please please please challenge yourself to quit bringing up Evan every time you get into a discussion. Your points will be taken more seriously

Tony

 

[TAILWAG]

I tell it like it is too, since I own both cars. I don't sugarcoat the facts, or my own track experiences. I report what they run, good or bad. 1BADGTS also does the same thing. This being a Viper site, many people just can't accept the outcome of these internet comparo discussions. They'd rather poke fun, talk about how common and bland Corvettes are, preach to the choir about Vipers being great cars, etc...

I've set plenty of GM LS1 drag racing records along the way, since 1998. Logged thousands of quarter-mile passes. That being said, I still like road racing much better. No name dropping required. Evan Smith. Oops, I let that one slip, must be contagious. Evan Smith. Damnit, I did it again.

Please please please please challenge yourself to quit bringing up Evan every time you get into a discussion. Your points will be taken more seriously

Tony

EXACTLY. It seems that the only people that say it like it is, are the people that own AND DRIVE both cars. 90% of the people here bench race based on cubic inches or on magazine stats. It is pretty entertaining though.

 

[TAILWAG]

Someone brought a VERY interesting point though. In drag racing, all you want is just ONE damn good run. In road racing, you want to be fast BUT CONSISTENT...even in a 10 lap race...it does not matter if you set the fastest lap out there...(unless you are running an autox lol)...it is the consistency throughout EVERY lap that will determine the winner...and this is NOT a matter of car, this is a matter of driver.

 

[1BADGTS]

EXACTLY. It seems that the only people that say it like it is, are the people that own AND DRIVE both cars. 90% of the people here bench race based on cubic inches or on magazine stats. It is pretty entertaining though.

My personal favorite is when they grossly overpay some tuner for a chasis dyno number and benchrace that part number against their friends car and proclaim the car with the higher number faster .

 

[WILDASP]

Someone brought a VERY interesting point though. In drag racing, all you want is just ONE damn good run. In road racing, you want to be fast BUT CONSISTENT...even in a 10 lap race...it does not matter if you set the fastest lap out there...(unless you are running an autox lol)...it is the consistency throughout EVERY lap that will determine the winner...and this is NOT a matter of car, this is a matter of driver.

Well, there's that, and then too, there's the matter of driving style and "feel". Just as a "for instance", I had both the C6Z06, and the 06SRT Coupe. I found I usually ran about the same times on a road course in both, but felt a bit more comfortable in the Viper; to me, it felt more predictable and consistent. Tony, on the other hand, found the Vette to be "more a point-and -shoot" car on a road course. I'd guess that's a difference in driving style, preferred feel, or maybe both; and that's just it; when the performance is very close (which it is), it's going to come down to what setup a driver prefers. For that matter, you and I might want a pretty different setup in the same car, even if we were running comparable times on a road circuit; that's a good argument for adjustable suspensions, air pressure adjustments, and so on. It's not that one setup or another is inherently superior, just that individual drivers vary in technique.