2000 Vipers are no creampuffs

[Toronto_ACR]

Where do some people get this crap that a 2000 VIPER is a creampuff. I have been reading about the 00 cars not being as fast. My 2000 ACR dynoed last year at 422rwhp and the run right after that was 414rwhp completely stock. So what is the crap with creampufs. My friends 2000 GTS beat many cars even a more modified venom 600. Yes I agree that car must have had a problem but still my friends and my 2000 VIPERS are no creampuffs and neither is any other 2000 model.

 

[SoCal Rebell]

Only narrow minded Viper owners with yellow stripes think that!!!!!!

 

[BWoodbury]

I gotta agree with the big guy here. When we did our local dyno day I don't remember a single 2000 / 2001 that pulled anything in the 400's.

Compare my numbers to SloCal's. If I only gained 5 rwHP from a set of Belanger headers I would not be happy.

The '96's kick ***!!! (and it you're Big Jim they get more too)

 

[jwwiii]

Smackie Chan;

Your comments on 01' performance interested me. I had a Silver 98' RT-/10, and I now own a new 01' Yellow RT/10.

For me, the 01' feels like the stronger Viper, and is much less "jerky" around town. I changed the rear-end gears on my 98' to Mopar .355's and it really helped the around town feel. Both of my Vipers have the Mopar cat/back, tubes, K&N's.

I feel that my 01' is really a better machine, although I have not dynoed it yet. It sounds like your 01' is noticeably different in performance. How many miles are on your 01'? Mine really seemed to wake up and get stronger around 1500 miles. You said that you had your tech check it out. Did he/she have any reasons for the performance change aside from the cam feel?

Just curious so I can have mine checked out too. So far, nothin' but smiles from me on my 01'. Maybe I just got a really strong one. Keep us posted if you find the reasons behind the perf difference.

Sincerely,

Jim Wallace

 

[jwwiii]

Smackie Chan;

I forgot to mention in my post that the performance on my 01' felt so good that I did not bother to change the rear-end gears like on my 98'; I only did tubes, K&N's and the Mopar exhaust.

Matter of fact; the 01' pleased me so much that I questioned my tech as to whether he spaced out and put my .355's in the 01'. He did not.

What do any other owners out there think about the performance differences between the 98' and the 01'? Anybody else owned both years in question and care to comment? I am curious after Smackies post.

I would like to improve the sound of the 01' further with headers, but the risks still concern me. I am trying to get over my wussiness on further mods!

Jim Wallace

 

[BobK898]

My '01 R/T did 424 RWHP with smooth tubes and filters as only mods. So much for the slow stuff. I do agree that the cam may be affecting the potential of exhaust mods that were seen in earlier years.

 

[RickV2K]

there was someone on here that mentioned their exhaust gaskets were upside down...resulting in a 3/16 inch obstruction of exhaust exit....which i'm sure robbed him of some hp. i've heard of anywheres from 5 to 20 hp differences between exact cars. it sure wouldn't hurt to check your gaskets. at a recent dyno outing my car had the most hp of others there with the same mods as me....due to the 32,000 miles on my car. there were some less driven acr's and others there in the 380's & 390's. and it was quite hot and humid. i noticed some pretty dejected lookin owners there. but you know what they say........nuttin like a good driver to make up for less hp.

 

[viperdrummer]

Yeah, yeah my 00 is so slow I can't stand it. D-C better stop making these cars slower each year. Nice try 96 + owner-conspiracy therorists. 00-01 owners-don't be so gullable. Take a 96 out for a spin then try a 00-01 and see which one you would rather drive fast or slow. No offense, my 96 brothers and sisters --we are one after all in Viper world, but sometimes these posts get a little silly.

 

[viperdrummer]

And, furthermore, "Big Jim", if my Viper tech hadn't told me how big you really are, I would take you out for a thrashing after that comment.

 

[jamie furman]

The tighter pistons probally need a few more miles on them to get some clearance to run as good as the old ones did when new, but I have seen some newer 2000 and up cars run good and make good numbers on the dyno once they got about 2 thousand miles.I know jason heffner put his 2000 on his new dyno and made some impressive numbers stock and some small mods picked up another 5 to 10%.

 

[Matt M PA]

I have to chime in on this one. I have had a '94 RT, '96 GTS, and now a 2000 GTS. The 2000 is without a doubt the strongest Viper I have owned. I still did the smoothies, K&Ns, and the rear exhaust Snake Oyl set-up. I can't say that the difference is quite as noticeable as it was between the '94 & the '96, but this car is stronger. That said, each one of them had their good points (which is a while other story)...but the 2000 is the strongest. One other thing...the best magazine ET I saw was on a 2000....around 11.79 @ E-Town, NJ with a stock RT.

 

[K Adelberg]

I hate to say it but I agree with Smackie! My 2000 is surely not the monster my 97 was. I don't have any dyno numbers but have plenty of track time in both to tell, well when my Sean Roe death brakes didn't try to melt my 2000.

I miss the wild cam shaking 97.

WAR 2000/2001 whiners!!!!

 

[getbit]

My 2001 dynoed at 402 rwhp bone stock with 2000 miles on a HOT and HUMID Houston,TX. Day!
I will be trying again soon with my headers, exhaust, carbonfibre airbox and hiflow cats.

My 1999 GTS dynoed (again on a hot, humid Texas day) 428 RWHP with K&N's, catback exhaust, and a vec-1 by Sean Roe.

We shall see soon the difference.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

I guess one thing that would be interesting is to compare the "early" 2000's to the ones that were produced after the slight redesign (different cylinder sleeves after the first +/- 200 cars). Mine was an early car and seemed strong - 414 rwhp bone stock. With tubes, filters, and Snake Oyl rear muffler delete it turned 436 rwhp (torque was a pretty solid 483 at the rear wheels).

While I never owned an earlier Viper (dang it), I will say that I too liked the "lopey" cam that made the car shake and rumble like the best of the old muscle cars. I think the new "detuned" cam has resulted in poor performance improvement for exhaust mods such as headers. Sorry, but gaining 16 rwhp for $3K does not interest me in the slightest. While I would like to get my car over 450 rwhp, I don't think it will happen without spending some pretty major bucks. Even still, I am pretty happy with the power my car has (Arrow rebuild in November/December) and think it would compete well with any other year with similar mods. Now it just needs a better driver to prove it on the track (1/4 or twisties).

Chris

 

[MichaelP]

Ahhhhhhhh you might want to reread some of the posts. They were made by people who own BOTH of them and they are giving their experiances.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by viperdrummer:
Yeah, yeah my 00 is so slow I can't stand it. D-C better stop making these cars slower each year. Nice try 96 + owner-conspiracy therorists. 00-01 owners-don't be so gullable. Take a 96 out for a spin then try a 00-01 and see which one you would rather drive fast or slow. No offense, my 96 brothers and sisters --we are one after all in Viper world, but sometimes these posts get a little silly.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

[FikseGTS]

I haven't driven a 2001... but I can tell you that I raced a 2001 with archer headers and borla catback..... my 1996 has edelbrock headers and borla catback... from a roll, I had em by a couple car legnths... consistantly....


Brooks

http://viper.dragtimes.com

 

[Matt M PA]

dcooley...ya know what I remember most about the '94 being better than the '96 GTS I had at the same time? The seats were much better, as was the relationship between the pedals, shifter, wheel. The car was just more comfortable. (If there was only a way to tilt the seat bottom on my 2000 it would make a huge difference.) All that said, the suspension/handling of the newer cars is better. So, like i said before...advantages to each Viper.

 

[ronviper]

I have a 2000 red gts cream puff, that said it has showen many previous year vipers it's tail lights. Also it has sent many lumpy big blocks home crying, i am extremely pleased with my cream puff only problem i have is keeping my butt out of it. I have 8 second buicks race car, low ten high 9 second street turbo buick but this is the best all around car period. It has looks, performance, handling and braking with a wicked pull up to 5800 rpm. This is no weak sister, no two car is the same i am sure there are weak 96's to 2000 and very strong one's also so please do not paint all 2000 with the same brush.

 

[Toronto_ACR]

The only advantage that the older Vipers have is that they have forged pistons. Even Hennesey has stated many times that the 00 and up cars made more power. Like I said before my creampuff dynoed at 422rwhp the first time and 414rwhp the second time right after with no cool down. I have a not to gentle and soft creampuff.

 

[Ron Hickey]

I put 40,000 miles on my 97 GTS and replaced it with an 01 GTS. I agree with everyone else that the 01 is a much smoother ride. Both cars were/are basically stock, except for filters & hoses. (Oh yeah, the 01 has a Snake Oyl rear pipe. That's good for, what, 3 HP?). I sold the 97 to my roommate, so I have had the opportunity to drive them both back-to-back. The 97 feels stronger than the 01. My favorite Viper demonstration ride is to mash the go pedal in 2nd gear on an entrance ramp at about 35 mph. In the 97, the result was an instant BANG of power as the car leapt forward. In the 01, the BANG is missing, and the power seems to come on more gradually. I now have 9000 miles on the 01, and it definitely runs better now than it did at 4000 miles. It ran better at 4000 miles than it did at 2000, and better at 2000 than it did at 1000. (Incidentally, I followed the 1000-mile break-in procedure to the letter.)

Both cars will be dynoed this fall. I am expecting HP numbers in the 415-420 range for the 01; I will be disappointed if it's less.

 

[Tom and Vipers]

Can anyone repost the difference in cam specs?

Thanks
Tom

 

[Mike Brunton]

I've driven a '97GTS a '00GTS and an '01GTS. I own a '98GTS.

When I drove the 97, it felt identical to my car. Blindfold me and I wouldn't know which I was in. The '00 and '01 are alot different. The clutch pedal is soft as butter... the shifter is very very soft too, and the car is a lot less "violent" during acceleration. I think this all combines to make it feel slower.

HOWEVER, having said that, it seems like '00+ Vipers dyno all over the board. Some of the stronger #'s come from '00+ and so do some of the weaker #'s. We had a '00 that did not break 400RWHP on it's best dyno run with about 2500 miles on it (if I remember right). I think the 00+ Vipers take a lot longer to "loosen up".

Having said that, I drove a buddy's '00 GTS and it definitely was not as fast as my car. In my 98, when I hit the gas, the car just MOVES. It's almost scary (well it is scary really). It will roast the tires anywhere in 1st gear, and often in 2nd too. This '00 GTS would not even light the tires up on throttle in 1st gear. Now, that might just be the tires being stickier or something, but it just didn't feel as fast as I thought it would be.

For whatever that anecdotal evidence is worth...

 

[Sean Roe]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K Adelberg:
I hate to say it but I agree with Smackie! My 2000 is surely not the monster my 97 was. I don't have any dyno numbers but have plenty of track time in both to tell, well when my Sean Roe death brakes didn't try to melt my 2000.

I miss the wild cam shaking 97.

WAR 2000/2001 whiners!!!!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ken,
Please provide documentation that you were physically injuried, near death or died in your 2000 Viper because of the brake components you purchased from me. You're using my name, so I'm requesting that you either publish legal proof of your statement (hospital bills, death certificate, etc.), or delete my name and your reference about me from your post.

 

[Kid97GTS]

Sean,
The issue was thoroughly played out in previous threads (before they mysteriously disappeared), and the way I recall it ending is that Kenny said the system failed, and his mechanics concurred. You disputed the reason for the failure and told him to return the parts which you would then try to resell. That didn't sound like a completely satisfactory solution. Are there new developments that shed light on the real cause of the problems (i.e., design defect, driver error, track conditions, etc.)? If so, please share them with us. I really don't think anyone is out to "get you," but it is disturbing to think that a system offered by a supplier that many owners trust to provide safe, reliable products supposedly failed on the track. So what is the scoop?

Anyway, in the spirit of giving, I'll stay out of this until you guys can resolve it or whatever - to show my good faith, I'll even delete the above post. Have a good weekend.

Finally, does this mean you aren't coming to Nevada?

<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Kid97GTS on 09-01-2001 at 11:38 AM</font>

 

[Sean Roe]

kid97GTS,

First off, yes, I'm going to the Viper Days event in Nevada. I was hired as a driver coach for some of the west coast racers. I am flying out there and was not going there to compete in my car.

Second, there's a tremendous amount of public misinformation about the brakes on that customers car. We just got the parts from him 4 weeks ago, inspected them, came to some preliminary conclusions and sent the parts to the manufacturer for further analysis. Unfortunately, the mounting studs were cut off the brake booster by the mechanics removing the brake system from the customers car and there are some parts missing, so it has caused a delay in testing and evelauation. We asked the customer for additional parts and information and are waiting on his reply.

I will post a full report with all documented facts, including photos, when the analysis is complete and after the customer has been informed. Just because I don't post on the VCA board about it doesn't mean I'm not in contact with the customer or am not working on it. I have had correspondence with him two times this past week.

Thanks for removing your post. After the post above that uses my name is taken out, I'll remove these posts too. Now, what's your name?

 

[Kid97GTS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sean Roe:
Now, what's your name?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you seen "Glengarry GlenRoss" - Alec Baldwin's speech, in particular? If not, rent it. That's my answer.

 

[VIPERESS]

Excuse me, but my 2000 GTS "CREAMPUFF"

can kick A$$!! I have owned a 98 RT/10. I now have a 96 GTS as well as my 2000 GTS. I will say that there is definitely a major difference between the 96 and the 00. The 96's wild cam makes the car feel like it should, rumbling and shaking, shifter handle shaking at an idle!!It definitely seems to have much more "get up and go" then the 00 and, for sure, sounds a 100x better than the 00 (I have never dynoed either, and both are completely stock), but you can definitely feel the difference. The 00 has 5500 miles the 96 has 3500 miles on it. I will also say, I too have noticed better performance with the 00, as the mileage increases. In contrast, the 98 RT/10 (with 9500 miles on it when I sold it, last year) was sort of inbetween the other two years, it did not have the muscle feel, or sound that the 96 has, but it was not quite as refined as the 00, it too seemed to have more power than the 00. The 00 is for sure a more comfortable ride, and may be more refined, and sounds a little milder...but, by far, is no "CREAMPUFF"!!!
Have a wonderful day!
Laura

 

[VIPERESS]

Hey Rick,
Check out my new signature, what do you think?

 

[TacDoc]

Read my post A WEEKEND IN VETTELAND. I took my '00 GTS to the vette festival this weekend, ran a best 12.7 @ 115mph bone stock. Beat all but some seriously modded Vettes.

Greg
96 RT/10
00 GTS

 

[SnakeBitten]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TacDoc:
Read my post A WEEKEND IN VETTELAND. I took my '00 GTS to the vette festival this weekend, ran a best 12.7 @ 115mph bone stock. Beat all but some seriously modded Vettes.

Greg
96 RT/10
00 GTS

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Arent those numbers you posted kinda low for a GTS? Thats more like Z06 numbers from what Ive seen.....The earlier GTS's did 12.0-12.1 @ 118-119mph......Im not saying anything about you being a Creampuff

just wondering if maybe you didnt get a good launch....