2001 GTS Mods and tune

[Erick]

Hey all, another Viper owner here. I’ve made a few posts here and there already but never properly introduced myself. A little over a year ago I picked up a 2001 Viper GTS, yellow and black. Since then I’ve done most of the maintenance a new-used owner should: Fuel filter, spark plugs, wires, oil change, coolant change, engine mounts, power steering vented, and some other crap I’m sure I forgot. Generally the car has been amazing, but I have to admit that I really was underwhelmed with the sound of the stock exhaust…so through the recommendations of a few others I went to Todd at A&C Performance.

Long story short I ended up going with American Racing Headers and Hi-flo cat paired up with a Corsa cat-back. I also had him put in the 708 cam, new roller rockers, and of course had him tune it. Just got it back today, and the car is completely different from when I dropped it off. Sounds amazing and the power difference is off the charts!

I hadn’t done a dyno before I dropped it off but I’ve seen enough sheets for stock Vipers to know about where the car was at. After the install of the parts the car was putting down 441, after the tune the car is now putting down 494rwhp on the dyno consistently. Todd dealt with constant questions before doing the work, constantly updated me while doing the work, and delivered way more then I was expecting at the wheels (and the dyno runs were on a hotter day too) for a great price.

Rarely do I actually take the time to post up a review on someone because I find most service that people call ‘great’ to be nothing more than above average these days, but I have to give Todd and his crew props on their entire operation.

 

[scoobie]

Welcome Erick! I'll bet it doesn't sound like granny's car anymore!

 

[Erick]

You aren't kidding about that. My neighbor has a Porsche Turbo with exhaust and I've been sick of his exhaust overpowering mine if we're both messing with our cars...definitely can hold my own now.

 

[SquadX]

Ive talk with Todd in length on some viper mod stuff and, like many other vendors here, was very helpful and I'd never spent a dime with him. Be lucky to have sound advice near you as the closest to me is over a 1k miles away.

 

[martyb]

Very nice, 494rwhp is almost too good too believe with just headers, exhaust, rockers and a 708 cam. I have rockers, exhaust, stock manifolds and factory cam and I am at about 450rwhp on my 01 GTS. Congrats, post up a sound clip!

marty

 

[Russ M]

I have heard of this Todd at A&C Performance, they are located on the corner of Fantasy & Island.

But welcome to the club.

 

[costanZo]

How much is the 708 cam? Is that the best to get? I'm going to be buying Belanger Headers, roller rockers and new wires this summer and of course having a tune afterwards and oil change when it needs it. I'm already running K+N Dual FIPK which is basically a newer airbox with filters, smooth tubes, RT hi-flow cats, and corsa exhaust. My goal was to try and hit around 500rwhp without any super charger or turbo. I've already read people get their headers ported. How much horsepower gain do you get from that? Also, how much does it cost?

Hey all, another Viper owner here. I’ve made a few posts here and there already but never properly introduced myself. A little over a year ago I picked up a 2001 Viper GTS, yellow and black. Since then I’ve done most of the maintenance a new-used owner should: Fuel filter, spark plugs, wires, oil change, coolant change, engine mounts, power steering vented, and some other crap I’m sure I forgot. Generally the car has been amazing, but I have to admit that I really was underwhelmed with the sound of the stock exhaust…so through the recommendations of a few others I went to Todd at A&C Performance.

Long story short I ended up going with American Racing Headers and Hi-flo cat paired up with a Corsa cat-back. I also had him put in the 708 cam, new roller rockers, and of course had him tune it. Just got it back today, and the car is completely different from when I dropped it off. Sounds amazing and the power difference is off the charts!

I hadn’t done a dyno before I dropped it off but I’ve seen enough sheets for stock Vipers to know about where the car was at. After the install of the parts the car was putting down 441, after the tune the car is now putting down 494rwhp on the dyno consistently. Todd dealt with constant questions before doing the work, constantly updated me while doing the work, and delivered way more then I was expecting at the wheels (and the dyno runs were on a hotter day too) for a great price.

Rarely do I actually take the time to post up a review on someone because I find most service that people call ‘great’ to be nothing more than above average these days, but I have to give Todd and his crew props on their entire operation.

 

[plumcrazy]

there are much better cams avail than the 708 and especially if you do head work. call greg good for detailed info.

 

[ACPERFORMANCE]

I had to shoot a quick post about Erick's car.

It is hard to believe the numbers. It was for me also. I have had Gen2's with head work not even cross the 500 mark!

When I did run the car with more or less the factory tune, it made 441 with an 11.3 af at best. With timing tweaks and 12.9 af. The car was a whole new ride. Most Gen2's with the same mods usually yield about 465-475 on my dyno.

Unfortunately I didn't get a before dyno on this car because my Tech was TOO Efficient! As soon as the car came in I had to leave the shop for a bit, before I got back, he had the Motor out! Too top it off, The car was rolled outside, engine bay cleaned and detailed because it was less than showroom clean and we're pretty particular. (and I didn't charge Erick for this, we just like to have the best finished product that we can. Proof is in the finished product. Not only performance, but being sanitary.

It seems nobody ever goes well over and beyond when it's for free or contains no huge price tag! I guess that's where I differ.

I definately don't live on Fantasy and Island But I can be found at the junction of Performance, Service and Honesty.

I wont try to convince the world why some cars dyno strong and others extremely weak, but I do try to get the most out of every car.

Todd

 

[Russ M]

Your dyno sounds about 40 hp high, mind want to get it calibrated. Vipers dont like 12.9 afr btw, there are detonation issues especially at the peak torque area. Besides there is no power worth mentioning to be gained from 12.0 to 12.9 on stock heads.

Far as the other stuff goes thats simply amazing you pulled the motor out to clean it and the engine bay? Thats way above and beyond and very impressive, not many would even consider it.

 

[Erick]

I'm sorry about whatever it was that caused you to have such a negative attitude about this Russ, and I'm not sure why you are posting given what you have contributed but the facts remain the same.

1. I've got multiple runs on his dyno that have yielded standard results for some time now.
2. The simple feel of the ride is completely different, and awesome.
3. Even if his 'dyno sounds about 40 hp high', he provided me with great work and excellent customer service and some insane GAINS.

As far as your unnecessary negative comments about the engine bay, the engine was out because of the work they were doing on the engine itself.

 

[jrod_okc]

Your dyno sounds about 40 hp high, mind want to get it calibrated. Vipers dont like 12.9 afr btw, there are detonation issues especially at the peak torque area. Besides there is no power worth mentioning to be gained from 12.0 to 12.9 on stock heads.

Far as the other stuff goes thats simply amazing you pulled the motor out to clean it and the engine bay? Thats way above and beyond and very impressive, not many would even consider it.

Every time i see your post it is Negative, either calling bull**** or other. Get a grip dude

 

[Dom426h]

I assume we are not talking about a Dynojet dyno cause those #`s do look about 40 high. Your at around 460 dynojet SAE like me and everyonelse with the same mods. And most of the power comes from the headers&exhaust. No tune is adding 50hp.

Great setup. 708 w/headers is how all vipers should sound IMO

 

[Russ M]

My comments are meant to be helpful not negative, isnt that the point of a forum to help people with stuff that you know about?

Im not one to blow sunshine up anyones ass when I see something done should I just ignore it and let the members pay for it? I have been doing this stuff for many many years on a far higher level than most here, at least the ones that speak up. Just because I do not try to sell you anything or have anything to do with the industry does not mean my experience is surpassed by them.

Todd is a nice guy, but my comments were spot on his dyno is off and his tuning is a bit on the lean side especially if he is using a tail pipe sniffer which means that 12.9 is more like a 13.5:1. Tuners like to always go 12.9 for some reason thinking that its best and it almost never is. Certain cylinder heads will make more power when run leaner, but the OEM viper head is just not one of them.

 

[ACPERFORMANCE]

"his tuning is a bit on the lean side especially if he is using a tail pipe sniffer which means that 12.9 is more like a 13.5:1. Tuners like to always go 12.9 for some reason thinking that its best and it almost never is."

Actually I have done these tests Russ. Your completely off on this. If a tail pipe sniffer reads 12.9, than chances are the Header **** will be seeing about 12.5 with a high flow cat, or usually .3 to .4 richer. I have yet to see a car read 13.5 at the header and be richer at the pipe after it goes through the cat.

I have done so many systems, especially the American Racing Headers and high flow cat combo's. I know the variance from tailpipe to header. My tuning is from seat time. I'm not sure if you do your own tuning, but many stock head NA Vipers like "in the neighborhood" of 12.6 at the Header. and that is not too lean for a NA Viper.

Todd

 

[Atppilot]

Nice work Erick, I agree with you; Todd does a great job and is spot on honest. Last week he and I worked through my post build tune(SCT). I was previously experiencing a significant surge at about 2200-2500rpm. The first tune out of the box the surge was next to gone. A couple of nights ago he and I sat on the phone for about an hour shifting a couple items around on the tables(Idle & decel fuel). Todd works long hours in the shop making sure all are happy. Good on him!

 

[coupe]

Certain cylinder heads will make more power when run leaner, but the OEM viper head is just not one of them.

Please elaborate on this statement...Which cylinder heads? Why? Why not the viper head?

 

[Russ M]

Please elaborate on this statement...Which cylinder heads? Why? Why not the viper head?

You would need someone like Greg Good to chime in here to explain, but it has a lot to do with the design of combustion chamber. I have spent days on the dyno with my car and multiple other vipers when AEM was designing the unit for our cars. They ran all sorts of air/fuel mixtures to see what the engines like.

Just to give you an example on my car from 11.9:1 to 12.9:1 there was maybe 5hp difference. However on the other extreem of that the GMC 4.3 motor found in Syclone/typhoons would make big power when you took them to 13.5:1 were talking 100hp gains from 11.9:1.

Todd,
Cats are the first thing I get rid of on a viper. Not for the power gains but for the enjoyment of the vehicle. Cant enjoy a car that has 130F temps in foot wells and 300F side sills after 5min of hard driving.

What are you using as an air/fuel analyzer and sensor when it comes to header **** readings? Your results are complete opposite of what real world test show on every wide band monitor I have ever used in comparison the the Dynojet tail pipe sniffer.

AEM does all my tuning, I can do it but prefer to have pro's do it for me always ends up being cheaper and safer that way. My weekend warrior tuning job will never match that of someone who does it for a living 8 hours a day every day.

 

[ACPERFORMANCE]

"My weekend warrior tuning job will never match that of someone who does it for a living 8 hours a day every day."

I do not use Dynojet. I use Dyno dynamics which seems to be spot on with my aem units.

Some people need to pass emissions here and retain their cats.

Todd

 

[martyb]

You would need someone like Greg Good to chime in here to explain, but it has a lot to do with the design of combustion chamber. I have spent days on the dyno with my car and multiple other vipers when AEM was designing the unit for our cars. They ran all sorts of air/fuel mixtures to see what the engines like.

Just to give you an example on my car from 11.9:1 to 12.9:1 there was maybe 5hp difference. However on the other extreem of that the GMC 4.3 motor found in Syclone/typhoons would make big power when you took them to 13.5:1 were talking 100hp gains from 11.9:1.

You are talking NA vs FI when comparing your viper with a syclone/typhoon(unless your viper is FI). Leaning out an FI car is going to produce much more power I believe.

 

[Russ M]

My viper was NA and is now TT that still does not change anything though regarding been there done that.

We need to get Greg is here to teach us why this happens, now I am curios as well.