2001 yellow/black GTS on eBay warning......

[Toby]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2448647011


I did a lot of snooping and this car was been wrecked in the right front. I do not know to what extent but it was bad enough to have a lot of the front end replaced. Hence the reason why the front end looks so clean.


I received this information first hand from someone who knows the cars history.

The eBay auction claims it was never wrecked.


Buyer beware!

 

[Lawrenzo]

Wow, the insurance company got Serious's bumblebee back together in a big hurry

 

[sbkim]

this is starting to worry me - so how does one ensure you are not getting a rotten apple... he is even backing it with carfax etc. $hit, this car even has narrow gaps by the facia/hood... mine doesn't ...

 

[bwhitmore]

I was going to say, it looks prety darn clean to me. The dude even claims $5,000 carfax accuracy, apparently not wrecked enough to make it a salvage, or even have been reported on carfax.

I mean, cars do get wrecked, I know we all would love for this not to happen, but for those who can't afford the prestine stuff, as long as it isn't a salvage and the repair is acceptable or maybe even better, it may not be too bad.

 

[Vipermed 97.01]

I was going to say, it looks prety darn clean to me. The dude even claims $5,000 carfax accuracy, apparently not wrecked enough to make it a salvage, or even have been reported on carfax.

I mean, cars do get wrecked, I know we all would love for this not to happen, but for those who can't afford the prestine stuff, as long as it isn't a salvage and the repair is acceptable or maybe even better, it may not be too bad.

As long as the insurance co. was not involved it will not show carfax,hence the car fax assurance,this is all alleged of course

 

[dwhitt]

Carfax is shaky at best. My dad did over $10,000 of damage to his PT Cruiser GT when it had 500 miles on it and was one month old. Car had major front end damage but insurance company would not total unfortunately. Carfax to this day shows this car as completely "clean". Worthless piece of paper in my opinion. Do not put too much faith in Carfax.

We sold the car soon after and fully disclosed what happened to the buyer.

 

[bwhitmore]

As long as the insurance co. was not involved it will not show carfax,hence the car fax assurance,this is all alleged of course

Exactly my point, how could someone do "a lot" of front end damage to the car and not involve an insurance company, or better yet, avoid a police report.

Maybe it went something like this...

Rich Viper owner says to wife, "Well honey I just wrecked the Viper, quick go get the truck we'll pull it home in the cloak of darkness. I was considering just paying the $500 deductible to get it fixed, but I would much rather pay for this out of pocket..."

I think not.

 

[rich v.]

ok, as a dealer and a personal friend of the seller, here is my unbiased opinion.
1: carfax is truly worthless, but they have scared the public into swearing by them. i have had cars with no paintwork come up with an accident , and cars that have been wrapped around a pole and hit by a bus with no accident and a clean report.
2: he is a wholesaler, he is not a franchise dealer like woodhouse asking all of the money for his car. an 01 gts for under $50k, that is a good deal to anyone looking for a newer viper for a good price. i bought my 01 rt/10 with 14k for $48k wholesale, so i think this is pretty reasonable (paintwork or not) i do not know the car personally or asked him its history, but i know he would not sell a frame damaged vehicle on ebay.
3: lastly, there is no way that any dealer can know the entire history of a car with every little thing that has happened to it.

 

[Viper Specialty]

I noticed the plastic protectors are missing off the bottom bumper edge... typical of a repaint.

(I dont know what it is, but SOMETHING about that car just looks more awesome than usual... Yellow hasnt looked that good in a while! must have been the perfect time of the day...lol)

 

[sbkim]

Final GTS - can you explain to me about the missing plastic protectors? where exactly is this?

 

[VENM8R]

Final GTS - can you explain to me about the missing plastic protectors? where exactly is this?

I believe he is talking about this area:

That 'dirty' pic is due to a monster pothole that was made by the city during 'improvements' in our neighborhood and then left unmarked.

 

[sbkim]

venm8r - great pict. thanks. Yes, I see it on mine - thin clear plastic... You guys are amazing about knowing all these details!! WOW

 

[jkracer9]

If I were in the market for another yellow I would be on a plane, the photos show a very clean Viper. Fly out find a Viper Tech and if the car is that clean and put together tight it would be a great edition for someone. Rub your hands over the stripes, factory sticks out and some repaints are flush.
Good Luck and maybe you will find this Viper under your Christmas tree.

 

[Casey]

I think for $48k it is worth a couple hundred bucks to;

1: find a auto. inspector online and pay the $100-150 for a full inspection and report sent to you. They do like 1,000,000 pt inspections now-a-days, so you will know every inch of the car.

2:fly out to see the car, have lunch with the seller and you will know what's up. And if you are not a Mechanic, have the inspection done while you are there!

3: if the car is CLEAN after this and you find out you don't want it, PM me, I would be forced to buy this one!!

4: if the car has had some previous damage, but repaired to near perfection w/warranty still valid, then buy the car, go get your $5,000 bucks from Carfax, and you just got a great car for $43k!!

Good luck! Let us know what is learned! Looks to me like the hood and front have both be repainted, but still looks good.

 

[Jerome Sparich]

Notice where the car is located?

Notice where I live?

<----------------------

I was to see the car yesterday, but the seller never did call me back after we first spoke and I questioned him on the car.

I do not think he knows about the damage that was done to the car. He even went as far as to tell me that I know more about it (Vipers) than he does. This from just me asking him some questions about it the previous day.

The history of the car is shaky at best. Read again what Toby had to say.

 

[Achilles99]

As long as the insurance co. was not involved it will not show carfax,hence the car fax assurance,this is all alleged of course

Exactly my point, how could someone do "a lot" of front end damage to the car and not involve an insurance company, or better yet, avoid a police report.

Maybe it went something like this...

Rich Viper owner says to wife, "Well honey I just wrecked the Viper, quick go get the truck we'll pull it home in the cloak of darkness. I was considering just paying the $500 deductible to get it fixed, but I would much rather pay for this out of pocket..."

I think not.

Actually, I know someone personally who did just that. Keep in mind that, if given a choice, most people would rather pay out of pocket for an accident than get dropped from their insurance company (which could have been the case here). The reasoning... why not eat a few thousand here, instead of losing insurance coverage and risk totaling the car later.

 

[bwhitmore]

Actually, I know someone personally who did just that. Keep in mind that, if given a choice, most people would rather pay out of pocket for an accident than get dropped from their insurance company (which could have been the case here). The reasoning... why not eat a few thousand here, instead of losing insurance coverage and risk totaling the car later.

You're kidding right?

I mean let's take a poll of people who have actually been dropped from their insurance company. You have to be one heck of a career bad driver, and that in itself requires a certain degree of talent.

At the very least I can understand your insurance premium going up. You see what I am getting at here... because unless that car skidded off the road and crashed into a "money tree," I doubt the rise in insurance premium would offset todays repair costs, especially on a Viper.

 

[rich v.]

from a dealer's point of view, i think you guys are a little rediculous. it is missing the little guard at the bottom and you all think that wrecked. i guess none of you guys has had your front bumper repainted. because these never hit speedbumps or driveways. and all of your cars that you bought from woodhouse or anyone else has never been painted or worked on, they are all like new creampuffs. even if it has had the bumper painted or the hood repaired, does that now mean it is worthless? what should it be $30k? the car's retail value is well over $50k and i'm sure that most of you paid more that $50k for your 00 and newer GTS's.
it is not the dealers responsibilty to disclose anything about repaint or repair. he would have to disclose frame damage, or salvage, or flood, or reconstuctive title. you are all being way to over critical of this whole situation. i would bet money that the car is a good car (certainly looks great!) and that who ever buys it will have an awesome automobile and will love it!

 

[Toby]

Ridiculous uh? Do some more research on this car before you continue with your yapping.

Here are a few tidbits on this car...

It had almost 12,000 miles put on it...IN THE PAST 5 MONTHS.

The warranty repair mileage #'s don't jibe with registration mileage #'s either when you compare dates.

It has some pretty strange warranty repairs listed as well.

The car was driven over 2000 miles before even put into service.

This car was hit hard in the right front. I didn't base it off some stupid sticker...I talked with the dealer WHO FIXED IT and confirmed it was hit hard in the right front.

Critical? Sorry but if I am going to lay out 50K for a Viper...it's going to be up to my standards...not some desperate used car salesman's "its a great car" mentality.

 

[Casey]

it is not the dealers responsibilty to disclose anything about repaint or repair

You can't be serious! If not legally reponsible, he is 100% morally obligated to disclose information like this!

If I bought a car from a dealer or even a private seller and later found out it was previously hit and repaired, I would be not be happy. Even if it was still a nice car. As this info is an important factor in my decision to purchase a car or not, and how much I want to pay for it!

 

[BADVENOM]

I think Rich V. comments are the reason why buying used cars from certain dealers can be a very dangerous proposition, right up there with dealing with general contractors...

Adam

 

[Toby]

FYI...the eBay auction SPECIFICALLY states..."Never in an accident"

I can see a dealer not knowing about every detail about cars they sell...but what you don't do is represent a car this way without doing some basic research.

If you don't know....don't make the claim.

 

[RedSnakeGTS]

Toby is 100% right on this one. how typical of rich to jump to his "buddies" defense . i dont think the question is if the car is woth 48k, it is the fact that it is misrepresented on EBAY, carfax, and by the seller. all of which is BULLSH!T!

 

[SapphireGTS]

Doesnt the dealer only needs to disclose information if asked.

 

[FranciscoR.]

Maybe, but I would imagine there has to be some liability if they are knowingly selling a car that is unsafe. Questions asked or not, how could someone sell a car, knowing the car shorts often, and then the owner drive away, electrics short and something happen, then not carry any blame?

 

[0260in3]

Just curious. Does anyone know if Carfax has ever paid out the $5,000 for a bad report? This seems like it would be a pretty good test case since the evidence appears to be quite clear. Maybe they only pay if it was totaled out.

 

[rich v.]

Toby, so i guess the car's been clocked and hit by a Bus? 12k in 6 months, SO!! maybe one owner babied it and the last drove the balls off it, like that means anything. also, do u think that if he doesn't know about any secret history (like you do) he needs to disclose it? also, what is your definition of "hit hard"? and why do you seem to have such a chip on your shoulder about dealers? people are people, no difference whether they sell cars or work at wendy's.
Casey, a dealer is 100% not legally responsible to disclose any paintwork or non "frame" damage. if it has had the frame damaged, then yes, he has to say, but if not then it is only moral. and i'm sure all you guys are 100% moral.
Adam, all car dealers are the same. i guarantee that woodhouse dodge has sold vipers and hundreds of other cars that have had paint work or been in a fender bender and not told the customer.
RedSnake, if he was a scumbag junk dealer, i would not mislead my other peers, he is not. he wholesales 100 cars a week easily and is highly respected in the automotive industry.
Sapphire-again, only moral here. no legality unless there was frame damage.
Fransico-he can not sell a car that is unsafe. again only frame damage has to be disclosed.
again guys, these are the facts, like it or not, that is how the world works, cars, houses, boats, bikes, it doesn't matter!! i don't benefit one way or the other and if it was any other dealer, the facts would still remain the same. "if" the car has been in an accident(as toby claims he knows) and it has been fixed correctly and looks perfect then how much does it matter. tell me that all of you would sell your viper after it has been in an accident and fixed correctly?!?! anyone who says yes is a liar or has way too much money.

 

[Casey]

Rich, legally responsible or not. If I ask a dealer if the car has ever been damaged or repaired, and the dealer tells me NO, when in fact he knows it has been, he is wrong. In my opinion and everyone elses! But there would be no need as I would have the car inspected anyways, dealer or not!
Would I sell my Viper if I had a little paintwork, NO! But if I did, I would tell the buyer about it IMMEDIATELY, and show him pictures, paperwork, etc! As I document every addition and change to my car.
And that is why VCA members help each other out in situations like this, because we want to know help each other get what they expect out of their Viper!
Is this Car in question worth $48k? Sure! Would I want it if it has been wrecked NOPE!

 

[viper585]

I think the only problem is that in the ebay ad,he states no accidents.This should not be stated unless known.He is either mis-leading,or taking what the previous owner told him to be factual.He is wrong in both cases.Many sellers use the "appears to me to have never been in an accident".I think its a good looking car,and fairly priced.The real history on most cars is hardly ever known.

 

[Toby]

Toby, so i guess the car's been clocked and hit by a Bus? 12k in 6 months, SO!! maybe one owner babied it and the last drove the balls off it, like that means anything. also, do u think that if he doesn't know about any secret history (like you do) he needs to disclose it? also, what is your definition of "hit hard"? and why do you seem to have such a chip on your shoulder about dealers? people are people, no difference whether they sell cars or work at wendy's.
Casey, a dealer is 100% not legally responsible to disclose any paintwork or non "frame" damage. if it has had the frame damaged, then yes, he has to say, but if not then it is only moral. and i'm sure all you guys are 100% moral.
Adam, all car dealers are the same. i guarantee that woodhouse dodge has sold vipers and hundreds of other cars that have had paint work or been in a fender bender and not told the customer.
RedSnake, if he was a scumbag junk dealer, i would not mislead my other peers, he is not. he wholesales 100 cars a week easily and is highly respected in the automotive industry.
Sapphire-again, only moral here. no legality unless there was frame damage.
Fransico-he can not sell a car that is unsafe. again only frame damage has to be disclosed.
again guys, these are the facts, like it or not, that is how the world works, cars, houses, boats, bikes, it doesn't matter!! i don't benefit one way or the other and if it was any other dealer, the facts would still remain the same. "if" the car has been in an accident(as toby claims he knows) and it has been fixed correctly and looks perfect then how much does it matter. tell me that all of you would sell your viper after it has been in an accident and fixed correctly?!?! anyone who says yes is a liar or has way too much money.

You are missing my whole point of this thread...your defensive posture to "protect my industry and friends" is doing nothing but digging a whole for yourself. Just look at the reaction of other posters.

The fact is...the car has been damaged and repaired...the ad clearly states it has not. You act as if that’s no big deal…it happens all the time. Well…maybe in your world but not in mine. I happen to hold things like honor, truth and morality very close to the way I live and can see a deceptive attitude in you and in the eBay ad a mile away.

Also there are just too many "gray areas" with this car for me not to post the info and inform people. I never told anyone to not buy the car...I just stated facts. Maybe someone will read this and say...cool thanks for the info…but I still want it. At least the consumer was properly informed.

There is nothing secret about the cars history either...a few simple phone calls will tell you everything you need to know. You should know this...just punch the VIN up in your little box and do some searching yourself. Also...the use of that thing on your desk called a phone…it works wonders as well.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder about dealers...what I have a problem with is ANY company that represents a product, has no idea what it is and quite frankly...is hiding the truth.