2001 yellow/black GTS on eBay warning......

[tealviper94]

I hate to tell you guys. BUt, carfax is useless when it comes down to reporting accident history. I know this for sure! I had a car that was in an accident, to were the whole back half of the car had to be repaired and repainted. This accident was reported to police and the insurance company and insurance paid for all the repairs. A year later I had a freind print a car fax on the car. it showed a clean history. NO Accidents. So if you are going to buy a car and your not familiar with autobody and how to check for old damage. then take it to a body shop and have them look it over. they can tell you within a few minutes if the car has had any major damage. just my 2 cents worth.

 

[tealviper94]

I did have question for Rich.V.
Why is it Ok when a dealer sells a car with body work and paint work and not disclose it to the buyer and charge them full price. When in return, say I take this same vehicle with the paint work and body work same condition. And take it and try to trade it in and the dealer checks it and say Oh well' this car has had body work and paint. we cant give you full price.
example 2000 honda S2000 purchase price 31000. price the dealer offered 19000.
Ok I'm all for people make money. but this was a plan screw job. Of couse I did not sell to him or that dealership. But it did piss me off of the double standard. So with this Viper if it has had damage. it is worth the whole sale price as retail. ya it stinks. but hey get over it!

 

[gthomas]

Is the viper in question serious'?

 

[MichaelP]

Quote for rich v.
"it is not the dealers responsibilty to disclose anything about repaint or repair. he would have to disclose frame damage, or salvage, or flood, or reconstuctive title. you are all being way to over critical of this whole situation.

BWAHAHAHAHA and you wonder why most Americans think used car dealers are the **** of the earth.

You are the kind of dealer that makes it more difficut for guys like Pemberton who is an ASSET to the profession. This is as opposed to you who is the typical scammer as evidenced by your being suprised that people would actually be concerned about paying 50K for a car which has been in an accident..

Oh PLEASE do tell us the name of your dealership so all of the members here can purchase our next car from you.

 

[rich v.]

michael, 1st off if you think that Pemberton is any different in disclosing paintwork and is an "ASSET" then you are sadly mistaken. i'm sure he is a nice guy and gives you all perfect cars for $.01 over what he paid. get real!!
i am not a car salesman, i never could do it. i am not a fast talking thief. i market all of our cars on the internet.
i am not surprised at you people for being concerned, i just think you, as do retail consumers, make too big of a deal over it. is the car worth less than retail if it has, yes of course it is. go to any, and i mean any, car dealer and ask them to tell you which and every car on thier lot has had paintwork, if it was in an accident, and where the damage was. i guarantee you that no one will do it, not pemberton, not bob's corner used car sales, no one!
teal viper-as for the whole s2000 thing, how old was it and how many miles were on it when you went to trade it in. honestly, right now an 00 s2000 is not worth over 20k wholesale with low miles. they only retail in the lower 20's. if it was the day after you bought it, then you were being ripped off, but if it was recently, then i don't think anyone was trying to screw you.
guys, overall, i can understand your concern, i have been in this business for almost 10 years and it just seems like normal everyday talk. and to hear it from outsider's really makes it sound much worse than it is. if the car is fixed correctly, then i can't see a reason to worry, honestly. not trying to make any enimies here, just giving the opinion of someone who does this everyday. you all can think what you want about this car, but i don't think that the dealer is doing anything intentionally deceiving or to put harm to anyone else. he may be nieve about the whole thing and not know its history and maybe next time he will not put "never in an accident" if he doesn't know. but just so that you all know, this post has spurred dozens of emails to him about this car's history.

 

[joe117]

Used car dealers are often borderline crooks.

The guy on ebay who says his car has never been in an accident is probably slick enough to know what he has to lose if he is less than truthful.
He probably has little to lose.

As I usually point out, I'm not a lawyer but I play one on the VCA site.
What would happen if he sold the car for $48k to someone who later found out that the car had been damaged and fixed?

If there were a legal action, wouldn't the return of the car and money paid be the max loss for the dealer?

I know there are states where it is a crime to not reveal some kinds of information about a car. Selling on ebay probably clouds that issue to the point where the seller has little to fear.

The yellow car is probably being misrepresented.
The seller can get away with it.
A used car seller with low morals.... Duh!

 

[fred]

I agree. Carfax has only limited value. They also, as a company, tend to mislead about their "Guarentee 100% Satisfaction". Just wait till you try to get your money back if not happy with the reports. They play all kinds of games with you and STILL will bill you anyway. Do not waste your money with them, IMO.

 

[kverges]

All I can say is if a dealer (heck any seller of any car) KNEW a car had paint work or accident damage, no matter how minor, and deliberately refused to disclose it in response to a DIRECT question, that tells me the dealer also KNOWS that this information will affect the price and therefore the information is IMPORTANT. Now if the history was uncertain on the car, that's different, but to fail to disclose information of any kind in response to a direct question is LYING, plain and simple and "everyone does it" does not make it right.

 

[Toby]

quote from rich v....

"maybe next time he will not put "never in an accident" if he doesn't know"


He has seen the light!


another quote...

"but just so that you all know, this post has spurred dozens of emails to him about this car's history"



GOOD! That's exactly why I started this thread...to inform.

I hope the car sells.

 

[ViperBing]

I think that by misrepresenting the car on Ebay, the winning bidder could also easily back out of the deal as the description of the car was incorrect.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Gosh Rich, I have never met you , nor would I presume to intrepret how you do business, but little old rubbards, Bobby W. and I, are absolutely stoopid enough to divulge everything about a Used car. We kinda found out by surprise, that folks want to know everything they can about a hand-built US Exotic called Viper, and as fellow owners we feel sorta comfortable at night making sure they know their car, inside and out, before they acquire it. We inspect every single car that comes in, and we change things based on our racing experience , not on DC service schedules -- which simply means we do alot of stuff early. The issue that a repair to a damaged Viper ,doesn't make any difference , if done right, is completely incorrect. The folks that have told us that it is a concern, are Viper buyers, not you and I. Silly me, I kinda think they are correct, since it is their money being spent. In the future if you would like to presume how we conduct business, how I live my life, when I let the dog out to whizz in my yard, please feel free to mosey on over to Nebraska -- heck I will even let you ride my tractor and pet the Sheep.

 

[Lawrenzo]

heck I will even let you ride my tractor and pet the Sheep.

Maybe the sheep aren't safe from this dealer

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Had to throw the Sheep thing in, as Bob is originally from Montana, and.......
well, you know the rest.

PS- I actually don't have a tractor, nor any sheep, but I do have a very lovely blonde who likes to mow the yard. I don't claim to understand it, but I do feel blessed!

 

[tealviper94]

teal viper-as for the whole s2000 thing, how old was it and how many miles were on it when you went to trade it in. honestly, right now an 00 s2000 is not worth over 20k wholesale with low miles. they only retail in the lower 20's. if it was the day after you bought it, then you were being ripped off, but if it was recently, then i don't think anyone was trying to screw you.

The car only had 7500 miles on it when purchased. ( Average retail at time 32 to 33) Accident 2 months later. Miles on car when taken to dealer 8300 miles a month after the repairs. I had taken the car back to the body shop 4 times to get everything Perfect. The only thing I missed checking was over spray under the back bumper and in the trunk were the carpet and trim covers all painted areas. and of course were did the dealer look! behind the carpet and the underside. I had the dealer give me an there quote and used it to go the insurance company to claim depreciated value due to the accident. Sure they paid a whopping $260.00.
If a car has any major paint work or body work done that is not factory then the car is not worth the value. Exceptions - classics and Antique restorations.

 

[Toby]

Amazing...the ad still states "never been in a accident"

 

[Sam 01 RT10]

Toby- If I remember correctly from when I sold my old car on Ebay, once a bid is placed, you can't edit your auction.
I do believe that if the seller knew about the damage it should be disclosed. However, if he is a wholesaler as he states, he may not have even had the car gone over that well, just cleaned up to turn it and sell it.
Just my .000000001 after tax.

 

[viper585]

Toby- If I remember correctly from when I sold my old car on Ebay, once a bid is placed, you can't edit your auction.
I do believe that if the seller knew about the damage it should be disclosed. However, if he is a wholesaler as he states, he may not have even had the car gone over that well, just cleaned up to turn it and sell it.
Just my .000000001 after tax.

You cant change the main text,but you can add revisions.they show up at the bottom of the ad.He hasnt done that yet.And he said "no accident".If the car wasnt gone over,why was that stated?

 

[Sam 01 RT10]

Toby- If I remember correctly from when I sold my old car on Ebay, once a bid is placed, you can't edit your auction.
I do believe that if the seller knew about the damage it should be disclosed. However, if he is a wholesaler as he states, he may not have even had the car gone over that well, just cleaned up to turn it and sell it.
Just my .000000001 after tax.

You cant change the main text,but you can add revisions.they show up at the bottom of the ad.He hasnt done that yet.And he said "no accident".If the car wasnt gone over,why was that stated?

Ooops, missed that. I had a buddy help me with my listing, so I was under the impression it couldn't be changed. My mistake.

 

[FranciscoR.]

I know it may sound neive of me but I got to ask. I know car salesmen ( used included ) are out there to make a buck. But why is it that so many people ( used inparticular ) are willing to sacrifice your safety for some money?

 

[cratica]

Guys,

I think if you read carfax's fine print you will see that the $5K guarantee is only guaranteeing their report is accurate, not that the car has never been wrecked. BIG difference. In other words, if it's been totalled and the total was never reported to the state, then carfax has no liability. They are only saying that their report shows an accurate title check.

Carfax is a scam, just as many .com companies were.