2003 SRT-10 Overheating

[RyanRC187]

All,

Thank you for checking out my thread. I hate to admit this, but after being incredibly reliable and using my 2003 Viper as a daily driver, she has begun to overheat.

It started yesterday evening on my way to meeting friends for dinner. I honestly didn't even notice until the red warning light came on indicating the temperature had reached 260*. I immediately pulled over, walked the few hundred meters to the restaurant, and allowed the car to cool while we had dinner. Upon returning I checked the coolant and it was very low - In fact it took an entire gallon bottle. I had hoped that would resolve the issue, but after having a friend follow me home without issue, I decided to sit in the car and allow it to idle for approximately 8-10 minutes. The temperature reached 240* before I decided to turn off the engine despite the 40* temperature outside.

After the short 10 minutes trip to the air station in the morning, I decided to ask a buddy of mine if he might know of anything that may help. We looked at it for about two hours and after replacing the relay, realized the fan doesn't seem to be working. That makes sense being that the car's temp remains relatively normal while cruising with our current colder temps, but overheats while sitting.

Is this a common problem? Any idea how much this might cost to fix by taking it in? I unfortunately work long hours and don't have time to do the work myself.

Thanks for your time.

 

[bluesrt]

if it runs cool and normal driveing it, check and see if the fan modual is working, probably bad... hydrolic part

 

[Steve-Indy]

Did your 03 need/get the cooling module recall ??

 

[RyanRC187]

Did your 03 need/get the cooling module recall ??

Not to my knowledge. How long ago did the recall occur? This is honestly the first time I've heard of it.

 

[Steve-Indy]

LONG time ago...serious implications...including steering rack if it fails completely.

Go here and follow directions:

http://www.dodge.com/webselfservice...recall&country=us&emailUrl=goToEmailForm('R')

UPDATE: Read this old thread:

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads...g-Pump-Noise.?highlight=cooling+module+recall

 

[RyanRC187]

LONG time ago...serious implications...including steering rack if it fails completely.

Go here and follow directions:

http://www.dodge.com/webselfservice/dodge/index.jsp?screenName=recall&country=us&emailUrl=goToEmailForm%28%27R%27%29

Steering rack? As in the power steering? I've been having issues with that area of the car as well recently.

Will do. Thank you so much!

 

[RyanRC187]

That sounds like it is definitely the issue. I'll be making an appt with the dealer today.

 

[Steve-Indy]

You MIGHT want to speak with Tom Sessions in NC before you pick a dealer at random.

 

[steve911]

It is relatively common for the power steering pumps in the Gen 3's to fail as they do dual duty to work the steering rack AND the Hydraulic fan module. I have an '04 and an '06 and both are on their 2nd pumps.

 

[TowDawg]

Mine was leaking from the pulley area a couple of months ago and I had to change it out. Pretty easy job to do. Just got loaner tool from O'Reillys to pull the pulley off the old pump and it put it on the new one.

 

[steve911]

The last one I got from Dodge came with the pulley already attached. It made an easy job even easier. Even though the Dodge pumps aren't lasting forever, I would rather buy new than aftermarket just in case there is a warranty claim.

Mine was leaking from the pulley area a couple of months ago and I had to change it out. Pretty easy job to do. Just got loaner tool from O'Reillys to pull the pulley off the old pump and it put it on the new one.

 

[TexasTorred]

You might also check with http://www.donscharfautomotive.net/ ......I[/url] had some vibration through the steering wheel that went away with a simple fluid change.....

Yes, I found out that the hydraulic fluid controls both the power steering and 'drives' your 'cooling module' (a.k.a. engine fan)......Sounds like this is your problem and they are not cheap either on the Gen III. (I think around $800). Maybe Scharf can find you a used one vs. brand new.

Best of luck

 

[Garron]

You might also check with http://www.donscharfautomotive.net/ ......I[/url] had some vibration through the steering wheel that went away with a simple fluid change.....

Yes, I found out that the hydraulic fluid controls both the power steering and 'drives' your 'cooling module' (a.k.a. engine fan)......Sounds like this is your problem and they are not cheap either on the Gen III. (I think around $800). Maybe Scharf can find you a used one vs. brand new.

Best of luck

Honestly this is a part I would not buy used. Although I have no proof of this I would argue many steering lines fail due to bad fans. I had a new customer with a 2003 that a local dealer replaced and warranted the power steering pressure line four times. I installed a new fan and line. It has been two years without problems.

For some reason the fans have a high failure rate in the Toronto area. I have replaced six this year due to noise and overheating. The 2005 and up came with the red ATF type of fluid from factory up here. We have been flushing it out for the correct MS fluid.

 

[Sonoman]

For some reason the fans have a high failure rate in the Toronto area. I have replaced six this year due to noise and overheating. The 2005 and up came with the red ATF type of fluid from factory up here. We have been flushing it out for the correct MS fluid.

The correct MS fluid? ATF+4 is the recommended fluid. Confused here...

 

[Garron]

The correct MS fluid? ATF+4 is the recommended fluid. Confused here...

The correct fluid is (MS-5931) and is not ATF

From the Chrysler service information (dealerconnect) is Recall C31 (viper fan recall)

Slowly fill the power steering reservoir with Mopar Power Steering Fluid
(MS-5931) (P/N 04883077) to the FULL COLD level. Leave the filler cap
off of the reservoir.

From the Chrysler service information (dealerconnect) for a 2006 Viper

POWER STEERING FLUID LEVEL CHECKING
WARNING: FLUID LEVEL SHOULD BE CHECKED WITH THE ENGINE OFF TO PREVENT INJURY FROM MOVING PARTS.


CAUTION: Do not use automatic transmission fluid in this power steering system.

The fluid level should be within the “COLD RANGE” listed on the dipstick when the fluid is at normal ambient temperature, approximately 21°C to 27°C (70°F to 80°F).

Before removing the power steering filler cap/dipstick, wipe the reservoir filler cap/dipstick free of dirt and debris. Do not overfill the power steering system. Use only Mopar® Power Steering Fluid (MS-5931), or equivalent in this power steering system.


The confusion started in 2003 when a Chrysler service bulletin (19-005-03) went out to service and parts dealers stating most 2004 Chrysler group vehicles are switching to ATF 4 for power steering fuild. 2003 and 2004 viper were included in the bulletin. It stated the factory fill was ATF

I believe the bulletin was incorrect but has fooled a lot people. If I the check the service information today for any model 2003 to 2006 viper it says to use MS-5931. It should be clear in color, if it is red you have the wrong fluid and you should flush it out.

Garrett

 

[Steve-Indy]

Hi, Garrett...please call me at ...-...-....

Thanks !!

 

[Garron]

Hi, Garrett...please call me at ...-...-....

Thanks !!

Hey Steve it was great talking to you.

Here is some reading. I really want to get to the bottom of this now. I will have to wait until after xmass to get a responce from Chrysler. (MS-5931) is Chrysler (P/N 04883077)

You can see Chucks responce, Looks like he is doing the same thing I am.


http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/643802-Steering-pump-fluid-spec-brands?highlight=power+steering

 

[viper04]

The correct fluid is (MS-5931) and is not ATF

From the Chrysler service information (dealerconnect) is Recall C31 (viper fan recall)

Slowly fill the power steering reservoir with Mopar Power Steering Fluid
(MS-5931) (P/N 04883077) to the FULL COLD level. Leave the filler cap
off of the reservoir.

From the Chrysler service information (dealerconnect) for a 2006 Viper

POWER STEERING FLUID LEVEL CHECKING
WARNING: FLUID LEVEL SHOULD BE CHECKED WITH THE ENGINE OFF TO PREVENT INJURY FROM MOVING PARTS.


CAUTION: Do not use automatic transmission fluid in this power steering system.

The fluid level should be within the “COLD RANGE” listed on the dipstick when the fluid is at normal ambient temperature, approximately 21°C to 27°C (70°F to 80°F).

Before removing the power steering filler cap/dipstick, wipe the reservoir filler cap/dipstick free of dirt and debris. Do not overfill the power steering system. Use only Mopar® Power Steering Fluid (MS-5931), or equivalent in this power steering system.


The confusion started in 2003 when a Chrysler service bulletin (19-005-03) went out to service and parts dealers stating most 2004 Chrysler group vehicles are switching to ATF 4 for power steering fuild. 2003 and 2004 viper were included in the bulletin. It stated the factory fill was ATF

I believe the bulletin was incorrect but has fooled a lot people. If I the check the service information today for any model 2003 to 2006 viper it says to use MS-5931. It should be clear in color, if it is red you have the wrong fluid and you should flush it out.

Garrett

Good info, thanks for posting

 

[Steve-Indy]

Good to speak with you, Garrett. It will be interesting to hear the official responses.

Merry Christmas

 

[cubican]

on an 03 can the fan be replace with an electric one, is there a way to bypass the hydrolics.

 

[Garron]

on an 03 can the fan be replace with an electric one, is there a way to bypass the hydrolics.

The computer controls a solenoid that directs oil to the fan. If it was not there you would have an engine light and a code. The fan system works well as long as nothing goes wrong.

 

[JoelW]

OK, just to throw more fuel on this fire. I went down to my local dealer and we looked up TSB's. The latest we could find says ALL vehicles, including the Viper, should use ATF+4. In the event your car has power steering fluid in it, it should be flushed and replaced with ATF+4. Don't mix the two - the reason for the flushing. Don't know if that is the latest, but we couldn't find one that contradicts this. Maybe you are fine with power steering fluid but the ATF+4 is synthetic and lasts a long time. I remember in a previous post on this, Dan at Viper Specialty recommended flushing on a regular basis to keep sludge and debris out of the system. So, there is another view. I'll try to get the TSB number.

 

[Sonoman]

More on this little debate: 2005 Owner's Manual clearly states "Power Steering Reservoir: ATF+4" on page 214 on 'Maintaining Your Vehicle'. Could someone check their 2006 Owner's Manual?

If the Chrysler dealer service information says one thing and the owner's manuals say another, that's a bit of a problem! I'd have a hard time switching to PS fluid on the basis of an Internet thread.

 

[GTS-R 001]

The Wizard told me that regular PS fluid should be used.

 

[Viper Specialty]

OK Guys, clean up time.

1. I think a lot of this confusion stems from the fact that Mopar makes a "PS+4" labeled as power steering fluid, but its actually ATF+4, and people internal to Chrysler didn't realize this when writing the TSB's. This is probably what is referenced [partially incorrectly] in the TSB's.

2. ALL 2004-2006 cars came with PS+4 [Red, ATF+4] factory filled. 2003's came with Mopar Power Steering Fluid [Clear].

3. MANY 2003 cars were changed to PS+4 during the recall. The key is performing a complete flush. As long as it is complete, you can technically use either fluid, but PS+4 is the better fluid IMO.

4. We advise doing a partial flush once a year to keep contaminant levels at a minimum. Immediately after running the engine, siphon the reservoir dry and refill. We are also working on a filter assembly that can be installed between the pump and fan to prevent contamination from making it to the fan or steering rack if the pump fails.

However, I will say that in virtually every case of a failure, the culprit is nearly always outside contamination, and then incomplete fix upon repair. For example, a leaky power steering line starts the chain of events. Then, the tech who replaces the line introduces dirt or something left from the manufacturing process. The system works fine for a while, and then the pump fails. The pump is replaced, and then the fan or pump fail again. Tail chasing commences. The same occurs when fluids are mixed accidentally. Sound familiar? Meanwhile, most cars which remain contamination free have ZERO problems.

 

[Sonoman]

Thanks, Dan. Are you the new Wizard?

Maybe this system should've had a FILTER somewhere in the line. Hmmm....

 

[Viper Specialty]

Thanks, Dan. Are you the new Wizard?

Maybe this system should've had a FILTER somewhere in the line. Hmmm....

Haha, that name is trademarked!

with regard to your second sentence... read my post again, we are working on it

 

[Garron]

OK Guys, clean up time.

1. I think a lot of this confusion stems from the fact that Mopar makes a "PS+4" labeled as power steering fluid, but its actually ATF+4, and people internal to Chrysler didn't realize this when writing the TSB's. This is probably what is referenced [partially incorrectly] in the TSB's.

2. ALL 2004-2006 cars came with PS+4 [Red, ATF+4] factory filled. 2003's came with Mopar Power Steering Fluid [Clear].

3. MANY 2003 cars were changed to PS+4 during the recall. The key is performing a complete flush. As long as it is complete, you can technically use either fluid, but PS+4 is the better fluid IMO.

Hey Dan.

The 2003 Recall lists MS-5931 (clear fluid) as the correct fill. Also my personal 2004 viper came with clear power steering fluid, But it is a February build (early 2004)

After a conversation with "Steve-Indy" I emailed Chrysler engineering on the matter and I am waiting for an offical responce. The power steering bulletin says to use ATF4 (MS-9602) in 2003 and 2004 vehicles, star parts says to use MS-5931 on 2003 to 2005 vehicles and ATF4 (MS-9602) in 2006 , the 2003 recall and the service information say to us MS-5931, So they all say different things about what fluid to use. The only thing I have been told for certain so far is not to use ATF4 (MS-9602) on anything that is 1998 and older due to the seals used on the older vehicles. They must use MS-5931 (clear).

I will post a responce on this forum when I get a reply. I think you maybe right about using either fluid (in 1999 and up) as long as it is drained completely. I just want it in writing.

 

[Viper Specialty]

For clarification, my post ONLY applies to Gen 3 cars, none of it was directed towards backwards supercedence into Gen 2. All Gen-2 cars should use the CLEAR PS fluid.

However, you may want to do some research into your cars history specifically. My personal Gen 3 was built in February of 2004 as well, the shop viper was built in late 2003, and another local customers car we have serviced since new that was a very early 2004, all have PS+4. I have yet to see a 2004 with the clear PS fluid come through here.

However, I can absolutely understand why the original recall, which applied to 2003 cars, would specify the clear fluid- the 2003's came with it, and to avoid contamination, they probably opted to leave the spec alone at the time. 2004-2006 did not come with the clear fluid, they came with PS+4. Star Parts is probably generic accross the board, perhaps 2006 is when all chrysler vehicles went to PS+4 or something- I wouldnt put any faith in what it says, especially given that its obvious wrong on the spec year break of 2005/2006. I have seen a multitude of mistakes on Star spec and their applications, years, etc. The Bulletin is newer than the recall, again confirming that PS+4 is the correct spec.

No matter how you slice it, PS+4/ATF+4 is the newer specification.

I still think this whole mess is the result of Mopar having the separately sold PS+4 fluid that is labeled as power steering fluid, rather than just saying in the specs that the PS fluid is actually ATF+4. Anyone who doesnt know better, will think that Power Steering +4 is the same thing as Mopar Power Steering Fluid, when its actually the same as ATF+4.

 

[Garron]

For clarification, my post ONLY applies to Gen 3 cars, none of it was directed towards backwards supercedence into Gen 2. All Gen-2 cars should use the CLEAR PS fluid.

However, you may want to do some research into your cars history specifically. My personal Gen 3 was built in February of 2004 as well, the shop viper was built in late 2003, and another local customers car we have serviced since new that was a very early 2004, all have PS+4. I have yet to see a 2004 with the clear PS fluid come through here.

However, I can absolutely understand why the original recall, which applied to 2003 cars, would specify the clear fluid- the 2003's came with it, and to avoid contamination, they probably opted to leave the spec alone at the time. 2004-2006 did not come with the clear fluid, they came with PS+4. Star Parts is probably generic accross the board, perhaps 2006 is when all chrysler vehicles went to PS+4 or something- I wouldnt put any faith in what it says, especially given that its obvious wrong on the spec year break of 2005/2006. I have seen a multitude of mistakes on Star spec and their applications, years, etc. The Bulletin is newer than the recall, again confirming that PS+4 is the correct spec.

No matter how you slice it, PS+4/ATF+4 is the newer specification.

I still think this whole mess is the result of Mopar having the separately sold PS+4 fluid that is labeled as power steering fluid, rather than just saying in the specs that the PS fluid is actually ATF+4. Anyone who doesnt know better, will think that Power Steering +4 is the same thing as Mopar Power Steering Fluid, when its actually the same as ATF+4.

Interesting, I will have to run the vin on my car and see the exact day my personal vehicle was built (no service history).

I am still not sold on the whole PS+4 or ATF+4 (Both are MS-9602) is the best fluid to use in everything. Back in 2005 the Grand Cherokee a very similar hydraulic fan that was operated by the power steering pump. It is very well documented that PS+4 or ATF+4 is not to be used and does not meet the requirments for that PS system. The fluid was clear from factory until they switched over to electric. We will have to see what Chryslers responce to my email and I hope they will fix the errors on dealerconnect.

Garrett