2008 HP to beat Z06 ?

[ResumeSpeed]

...Jeeps by definition are supposed to be off-road vehicles.

By who's definition? How long has Jeep been building 2wd models? ALL Jeeps were not promoted as being "Trail Rated", the 2wd models did not of course qualify.

they are diluting their brand for a quick buck... a BIG marketing no-no.

You could just as easily say that they "diluted" the brand a long time ago with 2wd models... I give a LOT of credit to Jeep for offering such a diverse lineup of vehicles, there is something for everyone. It would be awful boring if all they offered was the Wrangler. And last time I checked companies ARE in business to make a profit.

Last I checked (unless it's changed), it tows less than 3000lbs, and they don't even reccommend you tow ANYTHING, hence where the exhaust it.

The rating is 3500 lbs, and there is not a single piece of literature or press release from Jeep anywhere that recommends against towing in the SRT8. In fact, Jeep SRT8 manuals and brochures list its towing specifications and Mopar will soon release the towing hitch package.

There's no utility other than grocery bags. Is it faster than the Cayenne? Yep, but the srt jeep can't even tow a Viper. What's the point? :roll

The point is performance. What do you think the percentage is of SUV buyers that take their vehicles off-road? And the percentage who tow? I for one could care less about off-road capabilty (been there done that), if I want to bounce around in the woods I'll buy an inexpensive Wrangler that I can beat the crap out of and not worry about getting dings and scratches. As for towing, like many owners I have no need as I don't own a boat. If I did I'd just use the wife's pickup.

 

[George Murray]

The point is FUN. My bud just bought an SRT-8 Jeep. I've driven it a few times. It's a blast. It's a bit unusual, and it'll go off-road anytime you want. Once.

 

[Warfang]

The point is performance. What do you think the percentage is of SUV buyers that take their vehicles off-road? And the percentage who tow? I for one could care less about off-road capabilty (been there done that), if I want to bounce around in the woods I'll buy an inexpensive Wrangler that I can beat the crap out of and not worry about getting dings and scratches. As for towing, like many owners I have no need as I don't own a boat. If I did I'd just use the wife's pickup.

If the point is performance... then quit wasting time and resource on gimmick vehicles and put it where it counts. You still remember what a Viper is right? DC doesn't seem to. Here's to hoping they come around.

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Warfang said....................





[/QUOTE]

Were you born yesterday? Jeeps by definition are supposed to be off-road vehicles. What soccer moms use them for is besides the point. What's important is that you should be able to take any vehicle branded a "Jeep" and go off road, not just putter around the mall. Even as of last year, Jeep touted the "Trail-Rated" badge, and proudly proclaimed ALL jeeps qualified. Now with the srt jeep and the compass, they are diluting their brand for a quick buck... a BIG marketing no-no.

Last I checked (unless it's changed), it tows less than 3000lbs, and they don't even reccommend you tow ANYTHING, hence where the exhaust it. There's no utility other than grocery bags. Is it faster than the Cayenne? Yep, but the srt jeep can't even tow a Viper. What's the point?

[/QUOTE]


Ummmm, in your own words "is it faster than the Cayenne, yep" I actually think THAT was the point, and it is selling like crazy, so I think they made their business case. Would I buy one due to the towing issues and the rougher ride than a Durango or a regular Cherokee, both of which would tow more than twice that much...no. Have a whole bunch of people who might have bought the Cayenne or th X5 bought it, yes, and that's why the business case was successful.

 

[Warfang]

Warfang said....................

Were you born yesterday? Jeeps by definition are supposed to be off-road vehicles. What soccer moms use them for is besides the point. What's important is that you should be able to take any vehicle branded a "Jeep" and go off road, not just putter around the mall. Even as of last year, Jeep touted the "Trail-Rated" badge, and proudly proclaimed ALL jeeps qualified. Now with the srt jeep and the compass, they are diluting their brand for a quick buck... a BIG marketing no-no.

Last I checked (unless it's changed), it tows less than 3000lbs, and they don't even reccommend you tow ANYTHING, hence where the exhaust it. There's no utility other than grocery bags. Is it faster than the Cayenne? Yep, but the srt jeep can't even tow a Viper. What's the point?

[/QUOTE]


Ummmm, in your own words "is it faster than the Cayenne, yep" I actually think THAT was the point, and it is selling like crazy, so I think they made their business case. Would I buy one due to the towing issues and the rougher ride than a Durango or a regular Cherokee, both of which would tow more than twice that much...no. Have a whole bunch of people who might have bought the Cayenne or th X5 bought it, yes, and that's why the business case was successful.

[/QUOTE]
It does what it advertises... like you pointed out, I didn't argue that. Is it making money... yes. But the Viper would make a lot more money too if they quit thinning out the resources for these gimmicks. It's easier to make something originally slow fast than it is to make something fast even faster. All I see is DC using their American brands to line their pockets through mediocrity, while pointing the cameras on their loss-leader German brands with vaseline-smeared lenses.

Every time I see a DC commercial where they tout how greatly improved Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep is because it has German engineering inside I want to tie down "Dr. Z" and cut his facial hair off with a rusty breadknife... the hubris bugs me. The good doctor forgot to mention MB has been plagued with bad electronics and a lower customer satisfaction than Hyundais recently.

But this all rests in the 08 model, so arguing about it really is moot. I'm just hoping to be made a jack@$$ when the 08 comes out. I couldn't be any happier to be so wrong.

 

[Snakester]

Again it depends on your perspective. I like performance cars, and currently DC is leading the pack with a complete line of go-fast SRT vehicles.

Comparatively Ford has just the Mustang/Shelby holding the Fort with SVT fading away and no more quicker Focus, Lightning, and the Ford GT's production over.

Chevy has the Corvette, Trailblazer SS, and a slew of SS-badged, V8 FWD sedans.

I'm not a huge truck fan anyway except for hauling the occasional fridge and sofa when moving, and I never thought that I'd own a SUV, but my wife wanted one.
It's AWD, but that's not for rock climbing, it's for rain, and maybe some mud, and a snow trip or two in the vehicle's lifetime.
Currently I have nothing to tow so that's a moot point.

I suppose that from pure-4X4-truck point of view, Jeeps are always supposed to be some close relative to the 40's military Jeep, being high off the ground, slow, handling like crap, riding like crap, with no HP, but tons of torque for pulling stumps out of the ground.

Sure there is an older history of 4X4s and Jeeps out there, but it has little/nothing to do with offering a balanced high performance vehicle with decent towing and off-road/all weather capability. Which is exactly what the SRT-8 Jeep does well.

That may be enough to get you upset at Jeep from straying from what you believe should be their total goals, but adding performance to a SUV like the Cherokee is the only part that makes the vehicle compelling to me beyond ordinary trucks.

Performance trucks and SUVs are anything but an anomoly, with the Lightning setting the path years ago, and the SRT-10 RAM setting it's own standard. And while those pickups are probably a better fit from your towing/off-road perspective, they are still too much gigantic and heavy trucks for my taste in being a reasonably driving, usable performance vehicle.

The X5, Cayenne Turbo, ML63, and others are offering performance SUVs that aren't ungainly, slow, gargantuan Hummers. And the SRT-8 Jeep matches their performance for a fraction of the price.

Does DC need to concentrate on making the Viper more competitive? Sure, and I think that offering a line-up of SRT performance vehicles from the Caliber to the Magnum, to the Challenger, to the Jeep, means that building performance cars (like the Viper) are important company-wide.

Jeep and Dodge still build a WIDE line-up of 4X4, diesel, off-road, towing beasts for those so inclined. In the same way that you can buy a base Caliber if you are looking for a practical economy car. But having SRT performance models means that they can also interest people like me, who look for performance as a qualifier right along with the vehicles other attributes.

If it is all just marketing fluff, and they abandon the Viper next year and instead add a 4-cylinder SRT Compass to the lineup then I'll be pissed right along with you.
But for now I think that things are looking up.

 

[Warfang]

If it is all just marketing fluff, and they abandon the Viper next year and instead add a 4-cylinder SRT Compass to the lineup then I'll be pissed right along with you.
But for now I think that things are looking up.

Despite my frustrations, I'm not much less optimistic than you are. I'm eager to see what Dodge has in store... hoping for the best, but if I get the worst, I really wouldn't be surprised.

 

[ResumeSpeed]

Snakester, very well put, I agree with everything you said. If the Jeep SRT8 was the ONLY Jeep model available then I would certainly understand the frustration from the Jeep community. Because of the success from widening the choices there is now "something for everyone" available from Jeep. You're right about Jeep going after the Cayenne, that was priority one and they pulled it off brilliantly. Who would have ever thought that a "Jeep" would be capable of the ET's it has pulled off? And that 0-40 it is so far the quickest of all SRT vehicles and second only to the Viper 0-60. Not too shabby for an "SUV". With its no-wheelspin neck-bending launches it is an absolute blast to drive.

I give the SRT team a lot of credit for what they have accomplished. Almost every vehicle has been a hit, and they are not done yet. In a few weeks we should find out what they have done power-wise with the 8.4L in the '08 Viper. Can't wait to see the numbers.