2012/2013 Viper

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

No longer a pure drivers car when the computer nannies are helping, right Chuckie

That's absolutely true. It's sad when the masses who have a gazillion cars to choose from ruin things for the purists who only have one car that fits their needs.

 

[Bobpantax]

As long as we will be able to turn it off if needed, I do not think ESC interferes with a purists use of the car. If Dodge produces a car that looks like the ME4 -12 that weighs under 3000 pounds and puts out 700 or more horsepower with a dyno chart showing power distribution similar to or better than the current car for under 100K, it would be a winner.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

As long as we will be able to turn it off if needed, I do not think ESC interferes with a purists use of the car. If Dodge produces a car that looks like the ME4 -12 that weighs under 3000 pounds and puts out 700 or more horsepower with a dyno chart showing power distribution similar to or better than the current car for under 100K, it would be a winner.

It does interfere - initial cost, maintenance, work around, weight. We want simplicity. Many of us work on our own cars. We don't want the added time and expense of maintaining a nannie we didn't want in the first place and is the opposite of what the Viper is about.

Non-purists don't know about any of that. Non-purists bought a Viper because it wasn't a Vette or wasn't a Ferrari or wasn't a Porsche and love the reputation it has and then want to change the very thing that gave it that reputation. A few years after ownership they will move on to the next flavor-of-the-month and the purists will be left with a nannie car.

I see the kit car market expanding in the near future. The downside is the fickle wanna-bees will then muckup that market too and require nannies on all Cobras. I guess at that time the purists will have to settle for shifter karts.

 

[RevHeat]

I am with Chuck...

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[C.Hermsen]

While I agree that there should be no TCS of any sort on a viper, its for different reasons. I would HATE to see the Viper become the next Corvette, where anyone and everyone buys one because its the "cool" thing. I feel that the rawness of the Viper is what's keeping it such a rare car.

I highly doubt adding TCS is going to add anything to the cost (maybe a couple hundred $$, but on a 100k car, I think you could swing it). And as far as weight, what's a traction control system REALLY weigh? 5lbs? Cut out a Big Mac a week and you'll make that back up. As far as maintenance/simplicity goes, I don't really see a tcs getting in the way of working on your own car..and I've never heard of one breaking, either.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely don't feel TCS has any place on a Viper, I just think some of the points as to why not are pretty moot.

 

[ViperGeorge]

Sneaky Pete,

Lets keep the Viper going as long as we can and enjoy it, as for the future, we all do not know what our future brings, ENJOY......... the moment and not save it for someone else.
I am open to all and lets do what we can to keep this car alive.
my 2 cents

FLX109

A BIG +1. Why anyone wants to kill the Viper just so their existing Viper will be worth more is beyond me. Just look at the prices of 65-68 Shelby Mustangs, they're still going up even though Shelby continues to turn out new ones. Heck he even makes new old ones with his continuation series. You don't have to kill the Viper for older ones to gain in value. Shelbys went down in value for many years before they started to go up. They went up when those of us that were kids at the time made enough money to buy the dream cars of our youth. Same will happen with a Viper.

 

[Bobpantax]

It does interfere - initial cost, maintenance, work around, weight. We want simplicity. Many of us work on our own cars. We don't want the added time and expense of maintaining a nannie we didn't want in the first place and is the opposite of what the Viper is about.

Non-purists don't know about any of that. Non-purists bought a Viper because it wasn't a Vette or wasn't a Ferrari or wasn't a Porsche and love the reputation it has and then want to change the very thing that gave it that reputation. A few years after ownership they will move on to the next flavor-of-the-month and the purists will be left with a nannie car.

I see the kit car market expanding in the near future. The downside is the fickle wanna-bees will then muckup that market too and require nannies on all Cobras. I guess at that time the purists will have to settle for shifter karts.

I think you make a good point but budget considerations aside, there are purist drivers and purist drivers who do their own maintainence. Since I am not aware of any professional drivers that do their own maintainence, I think that one can be a legitimate member of the purist club without doing one's own maintainence as long as the process is understood.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

While I agree that there should be no TCS of any sort on a viper, its for different reasons. I would HATE to see the Viper become the next Corvette, where anyone and everyone buys one because its the "cool" thing. I feel that the rawness of the Viper is what's keeping it such a rare car.

I highly doubt adding TCS is going to add anything to the cost (maybe a couple hundred $$, but on a 100k car, I think you could swing it). And as far as weight, what's a traction control system REALLY weigh? 5lbs? Cut out a Big Mac a week and you'll make that back up. As far as maintenance/simplicity goes, I don't really see a tcs getting in the way of working on your own car..and I've never heard of one breaking, either.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely don't feel TCS has any place on a Viper, I just think some of the points as to why not are pretty moot.

You're entitled. Nonetheless, nannyless is what gives the Viper its mystique and attitude and those are the reasons so many posers buy them. If the death of the Viper is near it will be because of what the masses thought they wanted, not because of the purists.

 

[musclenutz]

I had created a front-engined "concept drawing" years ago. This old image has almost 12,000 views...

Here is the pic and the caption that went with it at that time (Sept. 2004).

"September 2004. The latest concept car to come out of Chrysler was the "ME Four-Twelve". The "ME" stands for Mid-Engine, and the "Four-Twelve" stands for Four turbochargers and Twelve cylinders... It makes an outrageous 850hp and it cuts the eye with its equally outrageous forward-thinking edgy design.




Perhaps - this is the new design language of the factory styling studio... Perhaps - this hard sculpted design is a hint at the direction of the next Viper.

The Gen IV Viper, by my guess, would be shown around 2010, pretty far off... Perhaps 850hp would seem "just right" for the Viper, perhaps a "non-retro" design would be desirable to set the Viper apart from its "competitors" at that time...

Anyway, here is my "concept sketch" of just what a 2010 Viper might look like if we follow the lead of the ME Four-Twelve.."

Very wild and hi-tech looking design and would be cool,but call me an old romantic...i love the existing style. Actually i think the gen 1 was most pleasing to the eye. All Vipers look great though. I wish our big companies had tended to business and were not allowed to sell out to foreign countries and comapnies. God Bless America...PLEASE!

 

[KNG SNKE]

I think I might have actually seen that concept car. Not the front engine mock up but the rear engine version, going to go look through my archives tonight to see if I have a photo of it. Pretty sure I do.

 

[KNG SNKE]

Found the photos. Was a nice looking car

 

[bigmack339]

Everyone is going retro, c'mon, bring the gen 2 back!

 

[viperbilliam]

You're entitled. Nonetheless, nannyless is what gives the Viper its mystique and attitude and those are the reasons so many posers buy them. If the death of the Viper is near it will be because of what the masses thought they wanted, not because of the purists.

I think the death comes about because there aren't enough purists to buy them - purist cars don't survive in the marketplace. In order for them to be profitable at very low production numbers, the unit costs would be too expensive for the average purist. Let's take the ACR-X - you like that car a lot, don't you Chuck? I like it a lot too but for me to BUY it, I might nanny it up too much. If we could street it just to meet the federal minimum, it would be still too much (probably $110K+)? If we could get it down to 60-75K, it would sell but enough to keep the dealer/mfr happy? This the business case Herb would have to make to Fiat.

 

[musclenutz]

Cool looking car, but it doesn't look like a Viper to me. I prefer the traditional styling cues of all the current generations. They could be freshened up a little in styling, but I'd like a more modern chassis with lighter weight in mind this time around. Shoot for 3,000 lbs please!

I agree,what's the sense of owning an American musclecar if it doesn't have American style? I hope they don't kill the Viper and replace with a European supercar.

 

[musclenutz]

Found the photos. Was a nice looking car

Gotta admit though...sure is wild looking!

 

[musclenutz]

As long as we will be able to turn it off if needed, I do not think ESC interferes with a purists use of the car. If Dodge produces a car that looks like the ME4 -12 that weighs under 3000 pounds and puts out 700 or more horsepower with a dyno chart showing power distribution similar to or better than the current car for under 100K, it would be a winner.

I don't think it is all about horsepower. I'll stick with my old Vipers and enjoy them. This reminds me more of a Chrysler Crossfire than a Viper. I guess everyone has their own ideas of what a Viper should be though,and more power to them.

 

[musclenutz]

I am with Chuck...

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Now this is a Viper!

 

[RTTTTed]

Now that the Viper isn't being manufactured - what's the fastest road car? Understand that the ZR1 is about equal with the new GTR? And the new already being driven by customers Audi R10 is out.

According to history Dodge ALWAYS builds the fastest/quickest car for cheapest so whatever comes out in 2012 it will be faster than everything else built everywhere in the world, same as always.

 

[lagalaxy13]

My take is this won't even be worth talking about in a few years. Fiat is going to walk away from Chrysler when they realize they can't make any money, because no one wants there other cars or rebadged Fiats. Chrysler will then go belly up.

 

[fqberful]

My understanding was that due to the bankruptcy the Viper development was halted. It seems the side impact airbags that will be required by our lovely govt isn't compatible with the current door design. Add that to the soon to be required nanny tech stability control and well, you have a car they can't legally sell for street use without a load of R&D time.

I completely agree, I'm a purist "No ABS, No Stability Control, NO PROBLEM"!!!

So far I'm optimistic but if the current regime continues to make war on our economy then I'd be thinking that Fiat won't bring it back because of cost. And since the govt and uaw own a piece it's also possible anything Fiat wants to do my be over ruled in favor of some high priced golf cart nobody wants.

 

[GreenVenom]

Looks like an Audi R8 from the side, top view reminds me of the Crossfire and the new Corvette prototype.

 

[97snk]

Everyone is going retro, c'mon, bring the gen 2 back!

+1, They need to the the squarish boxy look away and go back to the curves...

 

[Bobpantax]

+1, They need to the the squarish boxy look away and go back to the curves...

How about this? It sort of looks like a Gen II.

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[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I think the death comes about because there aren't enough purists to buy them - purist cars don't survive in the marketplace. In order for them to be profitable at very low production numbers, the unit costs would be too expensive for the average purist. Let's take the ACR-X - you like that car a lot, don't you Chuck? I like it a lot too but for me to BUY it, I might nanny it up too much. If we could street it just to meet the federal minimum, it would be still too much (probably $110K+)? If we could get it down to 60-75K, it would sell but enough to keep the dealer/mfr happy? This the business case Herb would have to make to Fiat.

Keeping in mind in this poor economy nothing is moving very fast if at all. However, given a good economy it isn't the lack of purists that keep Dodge from selling more, it's the federal regulations and CAFE standards.

 

[RTTTTed]

My take is this won't even be worth talking about in a few years. Fiat is going to walk away from Chrysler when they realize they can't make any money, because no one wants there other cars or rebadged Fiats. Chrysler will then go belly up.

Fiat can't walk away from Chrysler they onw 20%.

As far as "no one wants their other cars" Well as much as I agree with you it seems that a few people like their Ferraris. Some people even buy POSs like Prius's and Toyotas - imagine? I'm sure that Fiat being such an extremely large company is because so many people buy their cars - don't you agree?

Chrysler was "belly up" just recently. Obviously Dodge has improved from that already.

Ted

 

[lagalaxy13]

Fiat can't walk away from Chrysler they onw 20%.

As far as "no one wants their other cars" Well as much as I agree with you it seems that a few people like their Ferraris. Some people even buy POSs like Prius's and Toyotas - imagine? I'm sure that Fiat being such an extremely large company is because so many people buy their cars - don't you agree?

Chrysler was "belly up" just recently. Obviously Dodge has improved from that already.

Ted

How has Dodge improved? The trucks aren't even called Dodge anymore. They line is going to be Fiats. Chrysler is Dodge so not sure how you can say that. They went bankrupt because there product is crap & over priced. If it was so good it would have never happened. They want to sit around and let Fiat use all there stuff to make new Chrysler products. That doesn't show me a company that beilved in there product.

Fiat will not have a market here. Look at there past. They have been belly up a few times. Look at VW, they will be the largest automaker here in a few years and they have a terriable market here. Americans only buy certain things in bulk, and Fiat will not be one of them. Ferrai is the last thing that is keeping them afloat.

They will probably take the lost and sell it to Vw here in a few years.

 

[RTTTTed]

I'm sorry that you feel that way.

When GM built "crap" 305s, Chevettes, X bodies, Saginaw trans in their Z28s, Pickup fuel tanks outside the frames, etc. they because the largest corp in the world. Although Ford didn't seem to go bankrupt I don't think that's any recommendation for their products.

If you like the "Fastest Road Car in the World" you could buy an ACR? Yes, as usual Dodge built it. Also the quickest production car (Hurst Hemi 'cudas and Darts), worlds first passenger car to go faster than 200mph (67 Charger), world's fastest pickup, etc.

As far as I know VW bought Bugatti and now loses (according to TV) 3.5 million dollars every Veyron they sell.

Toyota was the biggest/best(?) company and look at where they'll be going after their cars have killed people (more than GMs exploding pu fuel tanks).

Dodge has stopped building the Viper although I hope the SRT engineers are working on the next one. Imagine that vette and Shebly GT500 will eventually get the Viper tires etc., expeically since the ZR1 has the Viper designed PS2 tires and Shelby 500 has the Viper desinged 6060 transmission. Guess GM and Ford will have to do their own parts design instead of just using the Dodge stuff.

Before quitting I would expect that Dodge would downscale and continue to build the best in the world. some of aren't really to 'keen' on buying "copycat" versions of Dodge parts installed into other cars.

Have you ever wondered why the Viper never copied vette parts? No supercharger from Dodge even though GM copied Ford's supercharger program, Dodge developed new technology that allowed the 8.4L engine to pass emissions and be produced.

Dodge won many awards for their camshaft technology and their Venom controller (Ford or GM win anything?). Dodge trucks ('09 & '10) won many awards for their storage designs (in cab and in box), awards for their new 5 link rear suspension, etc etc.

Guess their Truck is the world's "Best" too? What changes? I've only named the ordinary junk. What about that the 09 Hemi came out with 389bhp and 2mpg better than my '08 Hemi?

Not bad since I don't pay attention, eh?

Ted

 

[Viper Grenade]

I drive lots of rental cars. Up until the new taraus in the line ups...the 300 was the best full size car you could get. Also if you take note the interior is so much better than it used to be.

now back to the Viper

Dodge is on the right track with the SRT-10's and ACR(ACR-X). SRT's for the street, ACR for weekend racers and ACR-X's for all out racing. Give the SRT a twin turbo and the ACR's a few versions of a N/A V-10.

I would still like them make a street legal comp coup body style. I will have to wait about 4 more years to get my hands on a "Hand-me-down" 2010 Viper ACR as the price is a bit high for a working class chump such as my self. I would rather have a used Viper than a new Vette/M3/C4S (cars in the $60k range new)

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

How has Dodge improved? The trucks aren't even called Dodge anymore. They line is going to be Fiats. Chrysler is Dodge so not sure how you can say that. They went bankrupt because there product is crap & over priced. If it was so good it would have never happened. They want to sit around and let Fiat use all there stuff to make new Chrysler products. That doesn't show me a company that beilved in there product.

Fiat will not have a market here. Look at there past. They have been belly up a few times. Look at VW, they will be the largest automaker here in a few years and they have a terriable market here. Americans only buy certain things in bulk, and Fiat will not be one of them. Ferrai is the last thing that is keeping them afloat.

They will probably take the lost and sell it to Vw here in a few years.

Their, they're, there.

 

[Canyon707]

Retune the computer to 700 hp thats what I think you will be seeing. Thats why the computer code is such a tight secret. That power is there to be had.