Getting ready to purchase a complete diff with an os giken locker for my Gen III. Would like to change the gear ratio at the same time. Do most people prefer the 3.33 or the 3.55 gear ratio on a Gen III street car that's running a paxton?
3.33 or 3.55 gears on a Gen III w/ Paxton
- Thread starter HANKFAN
- Start date
AbsolutHank
Enthusiast
I'd be a fan of me too!
3.33s
3.33s
RECOIL
Enthusiast
This upgrade is in my future too -- so I'd also like to know some opinions.
Steve
Steve
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
Had an 03 with Paxton and 3:55 gears. That thing would peal the rubber off those run flats without a second thought.
When the 3:55's blew up, I switched back to the stronger 3:07's and liked the way the supercharger had a chance for some long, strong pulls.
The car felt stronger with 3:55's, but was also a bit frantic.
3.33 might just be the Cinderella gear with the Paxton.
Of course stickier tires could change all that, but then more things tend to break.
When the 3:55's blew up, I switched back to the stronger 3:07's and liked the way the supercharger had a chance for some long, strong pulls.
The car felt stronger with 3:55's, but was also a bit frantic.
3.33 might just be the Cinderella gear with the Paxton.
Of course stickier tires could change all that, but then more things tend to break.
venomred
Enthusiast
Giken with 3.33 is perfect for the track w/my modified '08 SRT-10; most tracks can be driven in 3rd and 4th. 3.55 may be great for the street but would require using 5th on the track and I would be concerned with the 5 to 4 downshift; I feel much more confident with the 4 to 3 downshift. On the street, the 3.33's are much easier to drive than stock, particularly at lower speeds. Acceleration is noticeably improved with the Giken (which really digs in and is solid feeling). The Giken is a great investment regardless of your decision on the gears.
dave6666
Enthusiast
I have the OSG on a Gen 2 - no Paxton or other mods like that. 3.73 gears but 3.45 effective ratio with my 20's. If I had your HP I would stick with 3.07's. With my puny engine gears are needed.
Black Moon
Enthusiast
I'm running 355s on mine and after the first 100 miles I wish it had more power or came in earlier. Great in the lower gears but 4-6 are a bit lacking.
SilveRT8
Enthusiast
Great post, I'm also debating between 3.33 or 3.55 for a Gen4 with a few mods. Ginken or Quaife ?
Then I think of keeping the stock 3.07, but the next day the question comes back.
Then I think of keeping the stock 3.07, but the next day the question comes back.
ILLSMOQ
Enthusiast
Had 3.55's, traded that third memeber for another that had a quaife and 3.33's.....
love the quaife but I liked the 3.55's better.
love the quaife but I liked the 3.55's better.
DPViper
Viper Owner
Had a Paxton with 3.55 and loved it! The Paxton comes on late and the 3.55 really helped.
Ghoust
Viper Owner
I just did 3.55s on my paxton car pulls like a freight train. Took a buddy out for some pulls with it. Check it out......
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.
challenger&viper
Viper Owner
Found this on YouTube
See the links below for comparison :
08 Viper Coupe (4:10 gear) vs 09 Viper Conv (stock )
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DiwOIZ5SU1g
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cwRqHMEpawk
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fcTrDzc4K90
See the links below for comparison :
08 Viper Coupe (4:10 gear) vs 09 Viper Conv (stock )
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DiwOIZ5SU1g
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cwRqHMEpawk
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fcTrDzc4K90
Black Moon
Enthusiast
Videos 1 and 2 are useless since cars started in different gears. Last video shows a clear difference. Obviously the 410 is faster. I put a stock gear in mine for a track session and will be going back to the 355's as fast as humanly possible. Stock gearing *****, 355's are a hand ful but very controllable with a Paxton. 333's might be a good balance. If I had the funds I'd change 5th and 6th before I changed gears away from the 355's. If your Paxton is relatively stock 625-675 hp go with the 355's. Much more hp would need a taller gear.
sssammm
Enthusiast
I have a gen 3, Quaife and 3.55's
SHEVIPER
Enthusiast
I'm having 3:33's put on mine right now. I track my car, and it was the opinion of everyone I asked, that 3:55's would be too much with the Paxton.
FangZ
Enthusiast
I first put 3.55 in, then a Paxton a year later. I don't track the car, but enjoy it on spirited drives. I have no comparison to a longer ratio, but I really love the 3.55-Paxton combination.
I have a Giken differential with the 3.07. I like the combo for the road course and the street. I would not want first gear to be any quicker. It is almost too much now. I toyed with the idea of going to a lower ratio for awhile but decided against it. Where are you located? Perhaps you can meet up with someone that has a Paxton and a 3.33 diff and feel the difference. It really does not matter what we think. It's a matter of what feels right for you.
345s-bspinnin
Enthusiast
I disagree. Video 3 is as useless as 1 and 2. Why would anyone start in 2nd gear when going 30-35 mph in stock geared car? That is clearly 1st gear range. Assuming that traction isn't limited, the stock geared car will pull on the 4.10 geared car who was in 2nd gear.
345s-bspinnin
Enthusiast
Plenty of opinions in this thread, and not a single person with any real data or proof. Here is the best simplification I can possibly make.
Torque multiplication is created via the mechanical advantages of gearing. In a car, the drive line mechanical advantage is defined by transmission gear ratio * final drive ration/ tire size. Need a better picture, search in Wikipedia or "how stuff works"
Here is mathematical representation of that 3rd video. (Bigger number wins)
At 30mph, stock geared, 2nd gear = 1.78 * 3.07 / 27.2 = 0.201
At 30mph 4.10 gears, in 2nd Gear = 1.78 * 4.10 / 27.2 = 0.268 <<<<WIN
Obviously win by the geared car since its multiplying the torque by a higher number. However, on that same case, if the stock geared car would have been in 1st gear, this would have been the results at the start of the race:
At 30mph, stock geared, 1st gear = 2.66 * 3.08 / 27.2 = 0.300 <<<<WIN
At 30mph 4.10 gears, in 2nd Gear = 1.78 * 4.10 / 27.2 = 0.268
Let's keep the race going, at 60mph, the 4.10 geared car is still in 2nd gear, while the stock geared is also 2nd:
At 60mph, stock geared, 2nd gear = 1.78 * 3.08 / 27.2 = 0.201
At 60mph 4.10 gears, in 2nd Gear = 1.78 * 4.10 / 27.2 = 0.268 <<<<WIN
However, by 70mph, the 4.10 geared car has to shift to 3rd gear. Results
At 60mph, stock geared, 2nd gear = 1.78 * 3.08 / 27.2 = 0.201 <<<<WIN
At 60mph 4.10 gears, in 3rd Gear = 1.78 * 4.10 / 27.2 = 0.1.96
MORAL OF THE STORY: There isn't a "right" gear. There simply isn't a transmission ratio or final ratio that give the best performance at all speeds. It does not exist, its always a compromise. You will never see rock crawling guys using land speed record gearing, or vise-versa. Do your math, and pick the gear that's best based to suit your driving style or racing circuit. Period.
Torque multiplication is created via the mechanical advantages of gearing. In a car, the drive line mechanical advantage is defined by transmission gear ratio * final drive ration/ tire size. Need a better picture, search in Wikipedia or "how stuff works"
Here is mathematical representation of that 3rd video. (Bigger number wins)
At 30mph, stock geared, 2nd gear = 1.78 * 3.07 / 27.2 = 0.201
At 30mph 4.10 gears, in 2nd Gear = 1.78 * 4.10 / 27.2 = 0.268 <<<<WIN
Obviously win by the geared car since its multiplying the torque by a higher number. However, on that same case, if the stock geared car would have been in 1st gear, this would have been the results at the start of the race:
At 30mph, stock geared, 1st gear = 2.66 * 3.08 / 27.2 = 0.300 <<<<WIN
At 30mph 4.10 gears, in 2nd Gear = 1.78 * 4.10 / 27.2 = 0.268
Let's keep the race going, at 60mph, the 4.10 geared car is still in 2nd gear, while the stock geared is also 2nd:
At 60mph, stock geared, 2nd gear = 1.78 * 3.08 / 27.2 = 0.201
At 60mph 4.10 gears, in 2nd Gear = 1.78 * 4.10 / 27.2 = 0.268 <<<<WIN
However, by 70mph, the 4.10 geared car has to shift to 3rd gear. Results
At 60mph, stock geared, 2nd gear = 1.78 * 3.08 / 27.2 = 0.201 <<<<WIN
At 60mph 4.10 gears, in 3rd Gear = 1.78 * 4.10 / 27.2 = 0.1.96
MORAL OF THE STORY: There isn't a "right" gear. There simply isn't a transmission ratio or final ratio that give the best performance at all speeds. It does not exist, its always a compromise. You will never see rock crawling guys using land speed record gearing, or vise-versa. Do your math, and pick the gear that's best based to suit your driving style or racing circuit. Period.
Paul Hawker
Enthusiast
Gearing for a Viper is more of a matter of traction than power.
No matter what gear you have, the power will be the same. You trade off quicker accelleration for top speed.
That is why dragsters favor low gears, while road racers want longer smoother pulls, and salt flat racers get some really long gears.
Short gears are the most fun. They feel great and have the fastest throttle response. Biggest problem is when the tires cannot hook up, then you just go slip slidin' down the street in the lower gears.
New Gen V went to lower gears, but they also went to wider, more stickey tires. If you do not have the traction to handle the torque multiplication, shorter gears can get really dangerous really fast.
With Paxton, you can have the best of both worlds. You can have the smooth, long pulls of a tall gear for cruising around, and if you want the quicker throttle response, and tire shredding power, just raise the revs a bit by slotting down a gear.
No matter what gear you have, the power will be the same. You trade off quicker accelleration for top speed.
That is why dragsters favor low gears, while road racers want longer smoother pulls, and salt flat racers get some really long gears.
Short gears are the most fun. They feel great and have the fastest throttle response. Biggest problem is when the tires cannot hook up, then you just go slip slidin' down the street in the lower gears.
New Gen V went to lower gears, but they also went to wider, more stickey tires. If you do not have the traction to handle the torque multiplication, shorter gears can get really dangerous really fast.
With Paxton, you can have the best of both worlds. You can have the smooth, long pulls of a tall gear for cruising around, and if you want the quicker throttle response, and tire shredding power, just raise the revs a bit by slotting down a gear.
cubican
Enthusiast
I done the rear end gears best mod for the buck, but now that I got my new tr6060 with the new 5th and 6th I had to go back to 3.07 now is perfect. The gears are great but if you replace the T56 to the tr6060 the difference is night and day.
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Gear choice with a Paxton car depends on personal preference and other key variable like hp / tq, tires, diff, trans gear ratios, driver discipline, etc. as above.
After 40K Supercharged miles in a Viper, I've tried 3.55's in a Paxton car and didn't like all of the shifting and getting loose at 100+ mph can be tricky.
Best bet with a Paxton car is the stronger OE 3.07 gears IMHO.
You really should drive or get a ride in a Paxton car with the gears you are considering prior to buying if you can.
Dan
After 40K Supercharged miles in a Viper, I've tried 3.55's in a Paxton car and didn't like all of the shifting and getting loose at 100+ mph can be tricky.
Best bet with a Paxton car is the stronger OE 3.07 gears IMHO.
You really should drive or get a ride in a Paxton car with the gears you are considering prior to buying if you can.
Dan
Nine Ball
Enthusiast
My Paxton '06 is currently at 841 rwhp. Stock rear axle, stock 3.07 gears. 1st gear is pretty useless with this power level, no matter what gear you have in the rear. But, from a 60 mph punch - I'm glad I have the 3.07 gears because I still get a nice rpm range right when I nail it. This instant throttle response and torque usually has my car jumping out at least a car length against other competitors. If I had a higher gear ratio, I'd be shifting into 3rd almost immediately from 60 mph, and it wouldn't have the same jump responsiveness. Here is a vid from this past Sunday, doing a 60 mph to 160 mph paced run against a mid-9 second GT-R. I won by 1.5 car lengths.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTUvejqDwGk
Here is another run against a turbo Mustang that runs 9.50s - I beat him by 2 car lengths.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzgnKHLt2F8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTUvejqDwGk
Here is another run against a turbo Mustang that runs 9.50s - I beat him by 2 car lengths.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzgnKHLt2F8
345s-bspinnin
Enthusiast
Great runs Tony, and great example of using the right gear for your power level.
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Nine Ball and others with higher HP cars,
Nice runs.
My Paxton car makes about 925 rwhp, 860 rwtq, so our cars are pretty close.
I can actually get pretty hooked up in first if I roll into it from a low rpm roll. I run Hoosier A6s out back in 345 x 35 x 18 with a Quaife and 3.07s. While drag radials offer more grip, they are a bit soft in the sidewalls and can be less stable at speed, like over 120 mph.
I've had a couple of pretty good contests with modded GTR's too, which are very quick from a stop. They don't pull quite as hard up top as you demonstrated.
While watching your video, I noticed your left hand position on the steering wheel.
Something for you and others to try. Both of our cars spin up very quickly at WOT, so it's hard to hold the steering wheel with both hands. I've gone to planting / wedging my left elbow into the door and gripping the steering wheel at the "9 o'clock" position with my thumb above the spoke and onto the center section of the wheel with my fingers below it and under the center section. This grip has saved me a few times when hitting bumps or other road irregularities or having to slightly turn while accelerating at warp speed as it makes turning the steering wheel more difficult, and thus the car more stable.
Good luck,
Dan
Nice runs.
My Paxton car makes about 925 rwhp, 860 rwtq, so our cars are pretty close.
I can actually get pretty hooked up in first if I roll into it from a low rpm roll. I run Hoosier A6s out back in 345 x 35 x 18 with a Quaife and 3.07s. While drag radials offer more grip, they are a bit soft in the sidewalls and can be less stable at speed, like over 120 mph.
I've had a couple of pretty good contests with modded GTR's too, which are very quick from a stop. They don't pull quite as hard up top as you demonstrated.
While watching your video, I noticed your left hand position on the steering wheel.
Something for you and others to try. Both of our cars spin up very quickly at WOT, so it's hard to hold the steering wheel with both hands. I've gone to planting / wedging my left elbow into the door and gripping the steering wheel at the "9 o'clock" position with my thumb above the spoke and onto the center section of the wheel with my fingers below it and under the center section. This grip has saved me a few times when hitting bumps or other road irregularities or having to slightly turn while accelerating at warp speed as it makes turning the steering wheel more difficult, and thus the car more stable.
Good luck,
Dan
