6-points vs 5-points PSA

[AZTVR]

TeamTech Motorsports - Racing Harness - Energy Pads

You can see more photos at TeamTech Motorsports

I'm very interested; but, their photos are terrible ! Tiny 200 or 400 square pixel photos that are hard to see. They do a terrible job of displaying their harnesses. Kind of like displaying your product 20 feet away from where the customer is allowed to view it from.

However, Jon, your descriptions are great.

 

[gb66gth]

Holy Crap
I have seen actual dead bodies floating the the Ganges river in India,a dead "holy man", looked 'em right in the face. And I tell you what, THAT was the most horrific thing I have EVER seen!

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

There is no such thing as 'overly safety conscious' in a racing situatiion.

Yes there is and this report is a good example of it. The purpose of the sub belt(s) is to hold the lap belt in place. When properly attached, both achieve the same objective. I've yet to see the advantage of adding a sixth belt to do the same exact thing the fifth belt does. Sell me, I'm all ears.

As for SCCA requirements, that's another can o' worms.

 

[JonB]

There was another thread on the topic of 6 vs. 5 points. I know JonB at Partsrack and Cory at Snakeoyl recommend 6s. JonB was pretty adament about it. None the less I purchased a new set of 5s and after seeing these pics I'm glad I did. I had to special order them. The pics are disgusting and almost caused me to lose my breakfast. Sure hope they could put that guy's nuts back in the can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonB - PartsRack
There is no such thing as 'overly safety conscious' in a racing situatiion.

Yes there is and this report is a good example of it. The purpose of the sub belt(s) is to hold the lap belt in place. When properly attached, both achieve the same objective. I've yet to see the advantage of adding a sixth belt to do the same exact thing the fifth belt does. Sell me, I'm all ears. As for SCCA requirements, that's another can o' worms.

respectfully to CB and GB.....

This is NOT the opinion of an adamant JB. This is race-industry fact. Im not trying to sell, but increase awareness. The 5 or 6pt "Sub Belt" is short for "Anti-Submarine"......its purpose is to prevent your body from submarineing under your 4pt lap belts and steering wheel.

-- With 5pts.....in an OE seat, or even a race seat, in a rollover your legs will flail uncontrollably.

-- You can knee yourself in the chin. Open face helmet? Break chin and patella. Closed face? Break patella on helmet chin.

--The steering wheel can hurt / break your knees and legs.

--In a 5pt and OE seat, your body and pelvis WILL SLIDE FORWARD at speed til it hits the front-of-seat sub belt with a GRUNT and a SQUISH. [See STEVE911 post as to why] ****** and beanie mash. Padded 5pt helps, but the sudden stop is still inevitaable.

--If the seat tracks break, as they did on Tommy Archer in a real-word Gen 2 ACR test, or the seat-back breaks, the damage can become life threatening as it was for Tommy. Tommy's ribs broke at the BACK of his spine, not the front. Lung was punctured. Tommy's arms flailed, and he said he was a split-second away from rolling the car over his out-the-window, flailed arm. Now, he uses arm restraints or window nets.

Since then, SRT has recommended 6pts or 7pts in all SRTs-VCCs. So does SCCA and most all REAL race-sanctioning bodies. Forget 'club' okee-dokee winks. SRTs are designed and pinned for 6pts...not 5s. A 5 could even be a jury-rig in some way for an SRT.

However, if you upgrade to a 6pt, it will hold you down and back in the seat. Legs wont flail. Even if the seat tracks break, it holds you AND the seat, down and back. By design.

If you are content to be LESS safe, choose a 5pt....[hell, why not a 4?] It should NOT be price......we offer a 6pt [which is quite easier to install,] and costs only $20 more!

Some day, we can chat about AIR BAGS in harness-equipped cars on track !!!!

ps.....Im not an 'expert' but as a 1st-responder I have pulled 3 drivers from flaming race cars since 1993. None were Vipers. "Driver OUT--Driver OUT--DRIVER OUT!" still plays in my head. I have attended many serious track wrecks, and I have attended 5 serious Viper wrecks, one as a 1st-responder rescue. I have been acquainted with 50+ more, and involved with several litigation cases. I am NOT trying to sell ANYONE on a $20 upgrade.


Jon

 

[JonB]

I have the team Techs in my Gen 3 (6 point). ..... readjusted and now I am confident I wont have the same problem.

On another note, I was always told if you have a 5 point harness, the crotch strap needs to be as vertical as possible and that is why the racing seats have the slot cut into them in the seat base so that the crotch strap can come up through. On a street car seat, the strap goes out horizontally a ways before going down to the floor. This will allow "some" submarining before being "caught" by the crotch strap. The amount will vary depending on the person and the seat design. Additionally, There is also seat crush or deformity to worry about during an impact with the crotch strap. What I mean is a person will have the harness adjusted tight statically. In a collision or wreck the seat will deform around the front edge where the crotch strap makes the bend from horizontal to vertical because of the significant forces exerted during a crash.

I have seen this on several occasions when I worked racing events as a paramedic. Again I want to stress these were on OEM seats and not purpose built racing seats. Thanks for listening.

THANK YOU STEVE for your EXCELLENT 1st-hand analysis and explaination.....

 

[ViperTony]

Unless I'm missing it, quite possible, the TeamTech website has no information on how to install their 6 point RamPac harness in a Viper...any generation. What is required to install this harness in a GenII? I assume if I bought one from JonB, they would come with a set of installation instructions?

 

[JonB]

VCA MEMBERS like you have illustrated upgrades, Janni Cone did the Gen 2. Follow the 5-pt process, but DELETE THAT 5th STEP! No need to install the 5th anchor between your heels. Pt #5 & 6 snap to the 3-4 lap anchors. EZ!

PartsRack can include printed Gen 2 instructions or CD rom Gen 3-4. Doris in our office installed her own 6pts in her RT/10 Pace Car......

 

[ViperTony]

Are these write ups approved by Team Tech? I ask because other manufacturers like Schroth produce detailed instructions for their seat belts including what the proper angles should be, seat position, etc, etc. I ask because I want to make certain the belts are installed properly and per the specific manufacturer's instructions. I plan on getting the Team Tech belts before my next track day. Thanks.

 

[JonB]

TeamTech wrote the paper instructions that JANNI followed and then illustrated. TeamTech filmed the VHS tape at FREC in conjunction with SRT.....and the later CD rom that came from it as well.

When the feds recalled all 1998-2000 OE 5-pt Viper harnesses, ONE company was allowed to provide warrantee-reimbursed replacement harnesses til Mopar got new stock in 18+ mos: PartsRack.

We do know Viper Harnesses, thanks...