$8000 and 54 hours to install Stryker Heads, Cam and Headers??????

[Kevan]

$148 an hour

Pfft....that's nothing. Patent something if you want to feel real pain in the wallet.
My patent attorney is over $400/hr.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Ok, I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here. Labor based on some manual and reality are two different things. Sure, a head and cam swap can be done really quick. Is it done to perfection, NO. I did that exact job on my car, and I am not a seasoned tech, but I can tell you to do that job right it's no $2000 job. Did the guy do a perfect job, I don't know, but the fact that the pushrods were incorrect and other issues were discovered along the way tells me he was at least careful. All that work costs money, and the swap is not involving factory parts, which means lots of additional checks. Yes I think Eight Thousand dollars is a heck of a lot of money, but with issues and unfamiliar parts you became part of the learning curve.

While I would tend to agree, if a customer is part of a learning curve, they should know about it up front- and at least be offered some kind of a break because BOTH parties are benefitting from the work being done.

I would consider myself a well seasoned tech on these cars and engines, having built and designed dozens of Viper engine packages. This job, head & cam, is nowhere near a 54 hour job unless there is something else in the mix here. It is one thing as a hobbiest to take breaks, etc... but as a professional, he should not be BILLING those breaks. I am certainly guilty of the 5-day+ head swaps when business is slow or I have to deal with other things/no hurry, etc... but the customer certainly didnt pay any differently based on that. Did this include a boatload of tuning labor? Fixing up other tidbits on the car? problems with the components supplied? fitment issues? Etc. You can do a professional, double-checked, cleaned and ready to rock Head/Cam change in 25-35 hours, tops- and I am as anal as they come when assembling an engine. Also having to be considered here is that he was starting assembly with BRAND NEW heads- he didnt even have to clean up the old ones or disassemble/reassemble them.

I also have to say I wouldn't have nearly the problem with the "time" it took to complete if the labor price wasnt so high! 148.00 is a BIT on the high side I have to say... I only charge 99.00 an hour to work on a Saleen S7 Twin Turbo and other Super-Exotics! [granted my rates are due for an increase, but that will still only be a bump to 109.00 in 2009]

There has got to be a missing part of this puzzle, giving the guy the benefit of the doubt- even though it is extremely hard to do so based on the facts alone.

 

[plumcrazy]

did i hear this correctly ?

this is on a creampuff ?

you did strikers,cam,headers and didnt do the pistons and rods ?...please tell me i heard wrong

 

[viper spray]

Kaboomie!!!!!!!!!

 

[1BADGTS]

Ok, I'm going to throw my 2 cents in here. Labor based on some manual and reality are two different things. Sure, a head and cam swap can be done really quick. Is it done to perfection, NO. I did that exact job on my car, and I am not a seasoned tech, but I can tell you to do that job right it's no $2000 job. Did the guy do a perfect job, I don't know, but the fact that the pushrods were incorrect and other issues were discovered along the way tells me he was at least careful. All that work costs money, and the swap is not involving factory parts, which means lots of additional checks. Yes I think Eight Thousand dollars is a heck of a lot of money, but with issues and unfamiliar parts you became part of the learning curve.

To me at least a Viper is not the ideal car to learn to do a top end job on.(the guy turning the wrenches should have declined due to inexperience.)Have swapped heads and cam out of my 650 hp GTS (along with numerious total engine builds )more times then i can count .Paid less than 2 grand labor on the top end ,Exactly 5500 .00 Labor for the total rebuild on a blueprinted and balenced motor(just done last year).Any gearhead will tell you how much more time it takes to check tolerences,balence,use a torque plate ect.

 

[DAMN YANKEE]

Required reading......absolutely.....8,000 views and its the very first item listed out....

http://forums.viperclub.org/rt-10-g...en-collection-viper-tricks-traps-lessons.html

"SHOP/DEALERSHIP SERVICES – We ask how much things are going to cost and what we can expect to have done for that price. Don’t complain if you get a huge bill and never bothered to ask the price. Don’t complain if you get a huge bill and did ask for the price and they did all the work at that price. Mechanics respect people who say “What are you going to do and what will it cost me?”..they love people who don’t..but not in a way you would like."

 

[1BADGTS]

In NJ they make in real simple for everybody.On a written estimate the mechanic can not excede 10% of the written price or he eats anything over the 10%.

 

[dave6666]

Required reading......absolutely.....8,000 views and its the very first item listed out....

People that have burnt their hands on the stove are much more likely to never do that again.

 

[1BADGTS]

People that have burnt their hands on the stove are much more likely to never do that again.

Or at the very least get the estimate in writing .If the mechanic wont put it in writing (another NJ LAW-customer requests mechanic must give )then he is not the right guy to use.

 

[Tim]

Ok lots of confusion here so I need to clear this up. The hourly rate was $120.00 an hour and that is pretty much normal around here. Plumbers are making the same and kids at McDonalds are starting at $15.00 an hr. The mechanic spent the time on the car and I am sure it is one right so now it is the negotiation stage. There is $500.00 worth of parts etc that were not installed and that was an honest mistake and they are going to fix this. They are going to do something on the labour so let’s see where that ends up. I should know something by Friday. And no there is no written estimate and that’s my fault as I have always had a good relationship with the shop. But at least I have the car and I’m driving it.

I went this way so that I did not have to change the pistons and Jeff has machined the heads for 91 octane as that is all we have around here. Dan at DC Perf has sent me the programming for the car. They both have assured me that I won’t have to worry about the pistons. Sure the Super Charger would have been nice but I did not want to add a bunch more weight out the front and I did not want the expense to change the pistons. But looking at my bill now, a whole new rebuild by Arrow might have been cheaper.

So how does it go? Well I am down a tiny bit on power until I hit 3800 rpm buts that ok. Tames a bit of the torque out on the bottom end but once I hit 3800 rpm look out as she will break the tires loose and do the slither every time until I hit 2nd gear. Once in 2nd and she has hooked up this pulls like there’s no tomorrow and the same into 3rd and 4th and 140 mph comes faster than I ever would have expected. No question that I am now making some serious power. How much? I will know within a couple of weeks once I get it to the dyno and make a couple of pulls and get the data off to Dan and get this dialed in.

At an idle it sounds like a stroked 426 hemi idling on Nitro Methane in my garage with the door shut. It does not sound at all like a V10. This is a true V8 sound from the late 60’s and it is loud. On the road idling around with the top off it is ok and surprisingly it is not that loud but once I put my foot into it and pulling past 4000 rpm this thing barks and reminds me of a V8 flowing through and set of burnt out Walker Blue Bottles. She is going to get me a ticket but she is sweet............

I have the 3” Corsa exhaust with the Hi Flo Cats, Bellanger Headers, Stryker Heads with Jeff’s Cam with I believe a .629 lift and is degreed in, no bleed lifters, ported intake, 170 deg thermostat and DC Perf Tune. I will post some pictures later of the engine as it now matches the yellow paint on the car perfectly along with the dyno pulls and the final bill.

Tim

 

[Camfab]

Sounds similar to my combo, except my intake is not ported. I also run 91 but I suspect I'm running more comp. than you. My car makes significantly more power off idle right up till redline than before. I'm wondering if your ported intake and larger tube Balangers have something to do with that. Either way enjoy it! and yes the motor sounds completely transformed.

 

[Tim]

Have you dynoed you car?

 

[ViperTony]

Ok lots of confusion here so I need to clear this up. The hourly rate was $120.00 an hour and that is pretty much normal around here. Plumbers are making the same and kids at McDonalds are starting at $15.00 an hr. The mechanic spent the time on the car and I am sure it is one right so now it is the negotiation stage. There is $500.00 worth of parts etc that were not installed and that was an honest mistake and they are going to fix this. They are going to do something on the labour so let’s see where that ends up. I should know something by Friday. And no there is no written estimate and that’s my fault as I have always had a good relationship with the shop. But at least I have the car and I’m driving it.

I went this way so that I did not have to change the pistons and Jeff has machined the heads for 91 octane as that is all we have around here. Dan at DC Perf has sent me the programming for the car. They both have assured me that I won’t have to worry about the pistons. Sure the Super Charger would have been nice but I did not want to add a bunch more weight out the front and I did not want the expense to change the pistons. But looking at my bill now, a whole new rebuild by Arrow might have been cheaper.

So how does it go? Well I am down a tiny bit on power until I hit 3800 rpm buts that ok. Tames a bit of the torque out on the bottom end but once I hit 3800 rpm look out as she will break the tires loose and do the slither every time until I hit 2nd gear. Once in 2nd and she has hooked up this pulls like there’s no tomorrow and the same into 3rd and 4th and 140 mph comes faster than I ever would have expected. No question that I am now making some serious power. How much? I will know within a couple of weeks once I get it to the dyno and make a couple of pulls and get the data off to Dan and get this dialed in.

At an idle it sounds like a stroked 426 hemi idling on Nitro Methane in my garage with the door shut. It does not sound at all like a V10. This is a true V8 sound from the late 60’s and it is loud. On the road idling around with the top off it is ok and surprisingly it is not that loud but once I put my foot into it and pulling past 4000 rpm this thing barks and reminds me of a V8 flowing through and set of burnt out Walker Blue Bottles. She is going to get me a ticket but she is sweet............

I have the 3” Corsa exhaust with the Hi Flo Cats, Bellanger Headers, Stryker Heads with Jeff’s Cam with I believe a .629 lift and is degreed in, no bleed lifters, ported intake, 170 deg thermostat and DC Perf Tune. I will post some pictures later of the engine as it now matches the yellow paint on the car perfectly along with the dyno pulls and the final bill.

Tim

Tim, did you get bigger TB's to match your ported intake? As far as tuning is DC performance reflashing your PCM, SCT tune or Vec3? Can't wait to see the pics and please post your numbers when you can. Thanks - tony

 

[1BADGTS]

Better yet run the car and get the trap speeds (seat of pants feel only goes so far ).A worked Nat asperated gen 2 should make over 550 to the tire and trap in the approx 130 mph range on stock tires.You also have to check your air fuel as a bigger cam will make the car dump fuel at idle-TOO RICH(WASH DOWN CYL WALLS) .Specifically unless DC has a program for the specific mods- cam your running (they may )you will need some sort of a DFI

 

[Tim]

The TB's are stock. Will do a dyno run this week for my A/F mixture.