890 rwhp/840 rwtq ( LETHAL 750 + Heffner SCi )
- Thread starter THEMASH
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RedSnakeGTS
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That's most impressive -- congrats! If 488ci + boost is good, 550ci + boost is, well, gooder
However -- stating:
"Heffner now has the 2 most powerful SC only cars out there."
"Lately there have been way too many claims of big #'s with no dyno sheets to back it up!", and
"If there was any doubt before, it should be becoming clearer that Jason Heffner makes the best supercharger system Bar None!"
is absolutely an invitation for a flamefest. Trying to say "oooh, but this isn't a war" right afterward is pathetic and insufficient.
To set the record straight, this is first SC-only Heffner car which is more powerful than either my or Roof's DLM car. I am not sure of where this "two most powerful" factoid came from? By way of example, here's a dyno sheet from my car from a while back, with the old setup:
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Amusingly, my car made more torque and almost as much HP as the 550ci Apex/Heffner car, and more HP + way more torque than GaryA's car. And this is with the small blower and 15 PSI boost. I've seen Roof's dyno sheets (post coming shortly) and his is similar but a touch stronger than mine was. In retrospect, I clearly should have done some dyno pulls with the big blower @ 30 PSI, just to put an end to this sort of BS. Rest assured I won't repeat that error
So... THEMASH, congrats on your car and go have fun with it! Heffner - keep putting out good systems and raising the bar; Doug needs some competition to keep him innovating
Ben, on 5/30 you posted on the dyno sheets portion of the board this same sheet and said it was for 16 PSI. On this post, you say it is for 15 PSI. Which one is it?
Ben, in the past, I have had a great admiration and respect for your car and your posts, but I have seen some things lately that, quite frankly raise the B.S. flag as far as I am concerned.
Ben, you said, "In retrospect, I clearly should have done some dyno pulls with the big blower @ 30 PSI, just to put an end to this sort of BS. Rest assured I won't repeat that error
What kind of a statement is this? You already said that the wheelspin was so bad at 26 PSI that the dyno could not read the power. Right? What good would a 30 PSI pull do?
I also expressed my opinion that there is definitely a diminishing marginal return in going from 15 or 16 PSI to 26 or 30 PSI especially if the intercooling capacity remains untouched. Your "extrapolation" of 1140 RWHP is an insult to everybody's intelligence.
Ben, you said, "Amusingly, my car made more torque and almost as much HP as the 550ci Apex/Heffner car, and more HP + way more torque than GaryA's car."
Let's see here, according to your previous "extrapolation" of 29RWHP increase per additional 1 lb boost....... Gary's car made 844 RWHP and 792 RWLBS/FT on 12 PSI. So for 3 more PSI(15 total PSI), that should make +87 RWHP and TQ. 844+87= 931 RWHP, 792+87= 879 RWLBS/FT. If we go 16 PSI, the car should make 960 RWHP and 908 RWLBS/FT.
==> "Amusingly", with either the 15 or 16 PSI route, this "should" easily be more power than what your car made at 16 PSI.==> But then they will also get into the "dangerous" area where the wheels simply slip and nothing can be proven anyway! ==>I do not think it will make this much due to the natural laws of physics with the diminishing marginal returns of RWHP increase per pound of boost increase, but we will see.
Ben, you said, "I've seen Roof's dyno sheets (post coming shortly) and his is similar but a touch stronger than mine was."
I said,"Lately there have been way too many claims of big #'s with no dyno sheets to back it up!"
==>You posted your small # dyno sheet for the 16 PSI, I would like to see something like the 19 PSI pull or whatever you got for a reading on the 26 PSI run. That would be interesting!
David posted last weekend about his 850 RWHP and 900 RWLBS/FT, I am surprised to still not have seen the sheet posted. If you have seen it, surely you posess the technical wizardry to get it posted here, please put it up I would love to see David's sheet, he is one hell of a nice guy!
==> So if you did not post the big dyno sheet and David's has not yet been posted, why do you object to my observations of the facts?
I am sure I will get flamed big time here but I am sick and tired of people with big egos and great reputations pushing the big B.S. wagon hoping people will believe their B.S.
Ben, you said, "The rest of you -- keep it factual, and don't post BS, or I'll have to smack ya down..."
==> Ben, you very well might be the one needing a smackdown.......
Here is some smack for you my friend: My favorite Ben Treynor post(On his video) 60-110MPH..."Next time I'll use the nitrous"... That was the funniest thing I ever saw! When I get my car back I will teach you the meaning respect with the creation of the baddest a$$ supercharged Viper video known to mankind! You will beg me for mercy!
Ben, I think you are a great guy, but you are out of line here and you should not always think you have to be #1 HP top dog here.
==>Repeat after me.............."It's OK not to have the highest HP Viper in the world."
Remember, "You are good enough, you are smart enough...... and doggone it, people like you!"...... No matter HOW much RWHP you posess. Trust me.
P.S. I can't believe I missed this early this morning: You said,"Trying to say "oooh, but this isn't a war" right afterward is pathetic and insufficient"
Like I said earlier to Maxey, THIS IS A THREAD ABOUT A MAN AND HIS HEFFNER SUPERCHARGED MONSTER. It is not a DLM comparo post.
==>If you want to start a war and boost your ego, why don't you start a thread titled: Ben Treynor_ "King" of the supercharged weenies...... Just don't do it on this thread, ok? Repeat after me, "This is a Heffner thread........."
AMEN BROTHA'
TOOOFST
Enthusiast
Paolo,with these posts your in the running for "VCA SMACK DOWN"championship.Although you should apologize to Mr,Ben Treynor,it's wrong to make a grown man cry 
Larry Macedo
Enthusiast
Very impressive, Mash! Congrats on your numbers, Sir.
Torquemonster
Enthusiast
The MASH
I wouldn't worry too much about those Skyline's in Saudi unless they are backed by professionals dedicated to winning (which takes skill and setup more than just dollars)
All the ones I've seen - once they get into the 8's they're like prima dona's - will pull out a blinder then break something and can't back it up.... if it came to a series - my money would be on you. At least the Viper should last a days racing!
Also - those running 8 seconds are not street cars like yours - they are more like Pro Street. They turn 10,000rpm and are not at home getting groceries.
There's also comfort in knowing that the 1000+hp engines in those Skylines cost more than your Viper! so go get-em
I wouldn't worry too much about those Skyline's in Saudi unless they are backed by professionals dedicated to winning (which takes skill and setup more than just dollars)
All the ones I've seen - once they get into the 8's they're like prima dona's - will pull out a blinder then break something and can't back it up.... if it came to a series - my money would be on you. At least the Viper should last a days racing!
Also - those running 8 seconds are not street cars like yours - they are more like Pro Street. They turn 10,000rpm and are not at home getting groceries.
There's also comfort in knowing that the 1000+hp engines in those Skylines cost more than your Viper!
so go get-emtreynor
Enthusiast
**SIGH**
This whole thread reminds me of why I generally avoid flame-starter topics -- they bring out the worst in everyone. Paolo and I haven't had a beef before this thread, and I doubt we will after it (at least until I run a bazillion PSI and don't post a dyno sheet ).
So - I'll just restrict myself to the facts:
Fact: to the best of my knowledge, Mash has the most powerful SC-only Viper. His car runs on pump gas.
Fact: to the best of my knowledge, I have the second-most powerful SC-only Viper. My car has a fuel cell which uses 103-octane unleaded. My car has run 143 MPH in the 1/4 on SC only.
Fact: to the best of my knowledge, Dr. Roof has the 3rd-most powerful SC-only Viper. His car also runs on pump gas. David's car has run 142 MPH in the 1/4 on SC only.
Fact: to the best of my knowledge, GaryA has the 4th-most powerful SC-only Viper. His car also runs on pump gas. Gary's car has run 142 MPH in the 1/4 on SC only.
I trust we can now get back onto a more level footing for future discussions.
This whole thread reminds me of why I generally avoid flame-starter topics -- they bring out the worst in everyone. Paolo and I haven't had a beef before this thread, and I doubt we will after it (at least until I run a bazillion PSI and don't post a dyno sheet
).So - I'll just restrict myself to the facts:
Fact: to the best of my knowledge, Mash has the most powerful SC-only Viper. His car runs on pump gas.
Fact: to the best of my knowledge, I have the second-most powerful SC-only Viper. My car has a fuel cell which uses 103-octane unleaded. My car has run 143 MPH in the 1/4 on SC only.
Fact: to the best of my knowledge, Dr. Roof has the 3rd-most powerful SC-only Viper. His car also runs on pump gas. David's car has run 142 MPH in the 1/4 on SC only.
Fact: to the best of my knowledge, GaryA has the 4th-most powerful SC-only Viper. His car also runs on pump gas. Gary's car has run 142 MPH in the 1/4 on SC only.
I trust we can now get back onto a more level footing for future discussions.
TOOOFST
Enthusiast
Hey T,just when the fun starts you get political,now i've got to pay the premium at the Tyson fight to see some ear biting.
Can you imagine how much RW the S/C car people can make if all the boost went through the motor
Can you imagine how much RW the S/C car people can make if all the boost went through the motor
2BADD 4U
Enthusiast
Next thing you know people will be catergorizing there cars by color. As far as I know, I have the....most powerful Sapphire RT south of I-20, east of I-55, north of .....rd, and west of .....rd.
You guys crack me up. Someone will always find more power or a way to say that they have more.
Let me know when someone breaks into the 9's. Until then I guess we will all just look at graphs. No flame. Just my honest opinion. I think all the cars are great, I would just like to see performance #'s to match.
2BADD 4U
Enthusiast
I guess I'll just have to head south to Texas like my Pa. Viper Brothers did.......(and visit a certain tuner) and SMACK ALL YOUR AZZZZZSSS
I find it VERY interesting that the 2 Vipers that DOMINATE the Numbers .....do not even post here, they rule, and they know it, they DO NOT have to get an ego boost by BRAGGING about it on this board. LIKE I SAID BEFORE .......THEY "WILL" BE RUNNING 8 SECONDS THIS YEAR
stop your whining
J Smith well said!
I find it VERY interesting that the 2 Vipers that DOMINATE the Numbers .....do not even post here, they rule, and they know it, they DO NOT have to get an ego boost by BRAGGING about it on this board. LIKE I SAID BEFORE .......THEY "WILL" BE RUNNING 8 SECONDS THIS YEAR
stop your whining
J Smith well said!
HP
Enthusiast
I guess someone will have to put a progressive controller on a S/C -
and go kick Kents @ss!
and go kick Kents @ss!
Kent1: "Have any of you ever thought about getting Supras? Some of them also like to have discussions on who is the biggest dyno queen while their cars are slow at the track."
==>I wouldn't consider low-10 second Vipers slow. A 9-second S/C Viper is only a matter of time.
Kent1: "Fact - there are all motor Vipers (No SC, no NOS) that are quicker in the 1/4 mile than the quickest SC Viper."
==>Who? What? When? Where?
Kent1: "Fact - not a single SC Viper with or without lots of NOS has run in the 9's. Meanwhile another form of forced induction, twin turbos has run an 8!"
==>The twin turbo that ran in the 8's had an automatic. That's a race car, not a street car.
Kent1: "Fact - I am sick about hearing how great you guys think your SC Vipers are. If you like them then hey thats great. But quit telling me how awesomely fast they are when there are over a dozen other Vipers out there that go to the track on a regular basis and run 9's all day long and all without SC's."
==> A dozen? Please list them. And besides, who cares if you're sick about hearing how great these SC cars are! Now go away you mental midget.
==>I wouldn't consider low-10 second Vipers slow. A 9-second S/C Viper is only a matter of time.
Kent1: "Fact - there are all motor Vipers (No SC, no NOS) that are quicker in the 1/4 mile than the quickest SC Viper."
==>Who? What? When? Where?
Kent1: "Fact - not a single SC Viper with or without lots of NOS has run in the 9's. Meanwhile another form of forced induction, twin turbos has run an 8!"
==>The twin turbo that ran in the 8's had an automatic. That's a race car, not a street car.
Kent1: "Fact - I am sick about hearing how great you guys think your SC Vipers are. If you like them then hey thats great. But quit telling me how awesomely fast they are when there are over a dozen other Vipers out there that go to the track on a regular basis and run 9's all day long and all without SC's."
==> A dozen? Please list them. And besides, who cares if you're sick about hearing how great these SC cars are! Now go away you mental midget.
Daffy Duck Viper
Enthusiast
Personally, I enjoy hearing how great supercharged Vipers are. They ARE great! Hello, it's a Viper, isn't it?
We're all here to talk/share/learn about great things having to do with a great exotic: Viper!
We're all here to talk/share/learn about great things having to do with a great exotic: Viper!
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2BADD 4U
Enthusiast
Right On Daffy!!! ALL VIPERS are great, stock with 450 hp or tuned to 1200 hp, lets all enjoy and learn from each other, and maintain our status as Viper owners
Best, Dave!
Best, Dave!
Tom Welch
Enthusiast
With regard to Kent1 and his comment about a motor only Viper thats quicker than the quickest SC only Viper. This is a correct statement.
SW ran a 10.04 at BG last month with a motor only Viper GTS. How big was the motor....I don't know.
I know I'm gonna get slammed for this, but I kind of feel like I have to agree with Kent with regards to the SC bloating. And believe me.....I can bloat myself...LOL....but some of you folks take the cake!
Think of how ********** you SC guys would be if I came on here every day and posted another customers dyno sheet that exceeds 950 ft/lbs of rear wheel torque at only 3200 RPM. Its a fact, and I know you can't beat it, but we are not on here shoving it down everyones throats. Nor are we arguing with the rest of the Nitroused Viper community. A few folks like MaxedGTS used to hijack every post that I made. I got sick of it and went to the track and layed down the number. Now I see Max cannibalizing his bretheren....where will it end for you folks?
In case you don't understand what I'm trying to point out about the countless, useless threads, lets recall some of the latest threads...
Viper world come vote for us..........(2) seperate threads..these threads would have merit to our community in competition with competitive brands of vehicles, it just seems to the untrained eye that two SC guys are again attempting to divide the SC Viper community. Maybe I read this wrong..and If so, I apologize in advance...anyone else have a thought?
--- Viper and a motorcycle (at least 10 threads in the last 60 days)
Most Powerful SC............(several recent threads)
My SC is better than your SC.......(several recent threads) some of which are continuing to degrade the ethical standards of this website.
My SC Viper Dyno Sheet........(several threads)and most of these turn into flame wars...LIKE THIS THREAD IS..and amazingly enough you guys are heckling each other over less than 20 freakin horsepower!
There are more, but you get the point and I'm tired from a 9 hour flight.
I'm not gonna make these comments without also offering a solution..First off, most of these threads should NOT be on the general discussion forums, but located in the dyno sheets forum or off topic forums.
I suggest, as many already have, that you high HP SC ONLY dyno queens get to the track with your hired gun drivers/astronauts and lay a number down. Its been long enough..wouldn't you agree??
If you don't like that suggestion...for the obvious reasons, I suggest that the board moderators create a supercharged page and direct all these threads to that area.
Just my thoughts..
Tom
P.S. I have yet to meet a SC Viper tuner that I didn't like. Some of the flaming of these individuals on this forum is tastless and not conducive to continued improvement of these complicated devices. The industry should thank guys like Larry Macedo and Sean Roe...not bash them for being pioneers! Nitrous/propane is here today and here to stay because of my thick skin, determination, no quit attitude and the strong economy of 5 years ago.....Economic times have changed and not everyones skin is as thick as mine. Don't run off our pioneers of future products.
SW ran a 10.04 at BG last month with a motor only Viper GTS. How big was the motor....I don't know.
I know I'm gonna get slammed for this, but I kind of feel like I have to agree with Kent with regards to the SC bloating. And believe me.....I can bloat myself...LOL....but some of you folks take the cake!
Think of how ********** you SC guys would be if I came on here every day and posted another customers dyno sheet that exceeds 950 ft/lbs of rear wheel torque at only 3200 RPM. Its a fact, and I know you can't beat it, but we are not on here shoving it down everyones throats. Nor are we arguing with the rest of the Nitroused Viper community. A few folks like MaxedGTS used to hijack every post that I made. I got sick of it and went to the track and layed down the number. Now I see Max cannibalizing his bretheren....where will it end for you folks?
In case you don't understand what I'm trying to point out about the countless, useless threads, lets recall some of the latest threads...
Viper world come vote for us..........(2) seperate threads..these threads would have merit to our community in competition with competitive brands of vehicles, it just seems to the untrained eye that two SC guys are again attempting to divide the SC Viper community. Maybe I read this wrong..and If so, I apologize in advance...anyone else have a thought?
--- Viper and a motorcycle (at least 10 threads in the last 60 days)
Most Powerful SC............(several recent threads)
My SC is better than your SC.......(several recent threads) some of which are continuing to degrade the ethical standards of this website.
My SC Viper Dyno Sheet........(several threads)and most of these turn into flame wars...LIKE THIS THREAD IS..and amazingly enough you guys are heckling each other over less than 20 freakin horsepower!
There are more, but you get the point and I'm tired from a 9 hour flight.
I'm not gonna make these comments without also offering a solution..First off, most of these threads should NOT be on the general discussion forums, but located in the dyno sheets forum or off topic forums.
I suggest, as many already have, that you high HP SC ONLY dyno queens get to the track with your hired gun drivers/astronauts and lay a number down. Its been long enough..wouldn't you agree??
If you don't like that suggestion...for the obvious reasons, I suggest that the board moderators create a supercharged page and direct all these threads to that area.
Just my thoughts..
Tom
P.S. I have yet to meet a SC Viper tuner that I didn't like. Some of the flaming of these individuals on this forum is tastless and not conducive to continued improvement of these complicated devices. The industry should thank guys like Larry Macedo and Sean Roe...not bash them for being pioneers! Nitrous/propane is here today and here to stay because of my thick skin, determination, no quit attitude and the strong economy of 5 years ago.....Economic times have changed and not everyones skin is as thick as mine. Don't run off our pioneers of future products.
HP
Enthusiast
Daffy Duck Viper
Enthusiast
Well I can understand the latest points being made here, and well made are the points, but I don't see that a separate section for supercharged-only Vipers is necessary. Nobody is being forced to read any of the threads on this forum. Nobody is being forced to get all bent out of shape because they have no control over what they allow themselves to read. Don't read it if you don't like it. I, for one, enjoy reading about the supercharged Vipers. It's exciting. I love hearing the enthusiasm. It is inspiring. I think it's great that so many can get into their Vipers so much. It's alive to them, and a special part of their life. What's wrong with that? Why should a separate section be created for that? This is just another case of people letting their lack of control ruin it for the rest of us.
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Paolo Castellano
Enthusiast
John, You have a good point here. I plan to do so when I get my car back even though I could care a less for the 1/4 mile. I prefer the standing mile myself.... It is way more fun than the 1/4.
Answer me this as I am not really up on all the facts of the turbo cars: How many turbo cars have run a 9 on boost only and a 6-speed? One?
You said, "Fact - there are all motor Vipers (No SC, no NOS) that are quicker in the 1/4 mile than the quickest SC Viper."==> This may be the case but I would guess the NA Viper was set up suspension-wise for the 1/4 and was driven by SW(Probably one of the best Viper 1/4 Milers). I honestly think there are 2 problems with the supercharged Vipers going nines:
1. The drivers are nowhere as good as SW. Take David Boggs for example: David is one of the only supercharged guys with the balls to run his own car. He is doing a phenomenal job driving the supercharged monster, as well as anyone could who has done it for as little time as he has.==>There is NO WAY he could possibly match the seat time of an SW just yet. Nor could I for that matter, enough said.
2. The other thing is the climate: Heffner has winter like I do in Chicago. We are at a disadvantage for seat and track time compared to the Texas crowd. Doug Levin told me he really focuses his time on building reliable cars that have to work well 1,000's of miles away from him in all different conditions. Do you really think he is into the 1/4 like the tuner who is to remain nameless?
You said, "Fact - not a single SC Viper with or without lots of NOS has run in the 9's. Meanwhile another form of forced induction, twin turbos has run an 8!"
The first part of this statement I have already answered.
If you think that putting in a powerglide auto, lightening the car, adding twin turbos AND nitrous to make an 8 second pass is an apple to apple comparison to any supercharger car out there, you are on crack==> Remember, you should never smoke something named after a part of your a$$! I sure as hell hope that thing ran an 8!
Just remember this, eventually even a speed governed to 155 MPH luxury car will pass that 8 second car! Should the TT auto Viper driver feel bad? I would venture to say a resounding........ YES!
It all depends on what you want to do with the car....
Heffner's supercharged car ran quicker in the 1/4 and faster than the H******** TT did in Motor Trend and made more RWHP on the SAME boost. So what is to say that with all that extreme(And in my opinion worthless{namely the auto tranny}) modifications that there would not be a supercharged Viper running as fast or faster than the TT one.
I know you will say that someone should just go out and do it with a supercharger car....... But if you have not figured it out yet, there is nobody here in the supercharger camp who wants to make a blower car with an abbortion auto tranny and a 200 shot of N20. I guess we all have more class than to throw on the N20 to get a quick ET, Thank God!
You also said, "TAKE YOUR SC TO THE TRACK AND LAY DOWN A NUMBER THAT WILL IMPRESS EVERYONE (9.99 would be a nice place to start, 9.50's would really impress a lot). UNTIL THEN, JUST HAVE A TALL CUP OF "SHUT THE F**K UP"."
Johnny(H): Like I told the other earlier interlopers: Repeat after me, " This is a Heffner thread..........."
==> I think(and I think I am not alone) That YOU are the one who should have the tall cup of "shut the f**k up" maybe you should go to a classy truck stop where you get free refills so we never have to hear your **** again! Looks like you will be needing a name change again, your carriage just turned into a Douc**bag! Bye bye now,...... aaahhhlrighty then!
P.S. I really mean no disrespect towards the owner of the auto tranny TT N20 Viper. It is an awesome piece of work and is definitely the way to go for a fast ET in the 1/4. It is just that the supercharger guys are not as ********* for the 1/4 as the PA/TX guys are; Nor did we claim we were better in the 1/4. We were just discussing dyno sheets when John Hwhoever just wanted some personal validation and to make us feel bad about no nines yet.
Tom Welch
Enthusiast
HP,
It is late........maybe I should have just went to sleep..LOL
Daffy,
Your point is well taken. Again, I suggest that the threads like this one be moved to their appropriate section of this site. this thread should have been with the rest of the dyno sheet threads...that way maybe some of the high temperature exploits would not be in the general forums section, where most of this sites 1,000,000+ monthly visiting folks click to first.
You said you like to read about SC Vipers. So does everyone, I just don't care to read about a fellows car, then see the competitors customer from down the street beat him down in a reply to his post. So with that said, its not as simple as "just don't read it if you don't like it" and believe me, I skip right over most of the SC beats Space Ship and motorcycle threads.
Tom
"If we had some Ham, we could have some HAM and EGGS, IF we had some Eggs"
It is late........maybe I should have just went to sleep..LOL
Daffy,
Your point is well taken. Again, I suggest that the threads like this one be moved to their appropriate section of this site. this thread should have been with the rest of the dyno sheet threads...that way maybe some of the high temperature exploits would not be in the general forums section, where most of this sites 1,000,000+ monthly visiting folks click to first.
You said you like to read about SC Vipers. So does everyone, I just don't care to read about a fellows car, then see the competitors customer from down the street beat him down in a reply to his post. So with that said, its not as simple as "just don't read it if you don't like it" and believe me, I skip right over most of the SC beats Space Ship and motorcycle threads.
Tom
"If we had some Ham, we could have some HAM and EGGS, IF we had some Eggs"
Daffy Duck Viper
Enthusiast
Tom, can't argue with any of that. Threads that should be in the dyno sheet section, well, should be in the dyno sheet section!
Who's in charge here?!! Damit!
Tom, stop reading these infernal threads. Go to bed.
Who's in charge here?!! Damit!
Tom, stop reading these infernal threads. Go to bed.
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HP
Enthusiast
Paolo, the clean up man, brought out the sledge hammer.
AWESOME!
AWESOME!
Paolo Castellano
Enthusiast
Tom, I understand your post and exactly where you are coming from. I love all your posts and how you do not take **** from anyone. I call you periodically and shoot the **** about various things. You are a cool and reasonable guy. I have this to say:
I think there are nitrous guys, 1/4 mile guys, street racing guys, road racing guys and...... there are a$$wipes,... wait...that is a whole different post.... Anyway, there are a lot of different kinds of people who want different things out of their cars....... There is NO SINGLE SOLUTION that will accomodate everyones desires, budgets, form and function. Therefore I believe everybody should do what makes them happy...period!
I think the fundamental problem you have understanding the supercharger guys is that you are such a ********* drag racer who goes to the track and makes a pretty darned impressive # for a very reasonable price. You go to the track with the right amount of nitrous, you do your thing very well(embarrassing those poor vettes like you did last year=>shame on you!). For you that works.
For someone on the street who has done a couple of hard runs and has lower bottle pressure and is slower because of it and gets spanked by someone on the way to getting the refill, this is not a good thing! I am sure you would concur. ==> This is where the supercharger comes in handy.(This is the kind of guy I am) I am not enamored with the lower power from reduced bottle pressure prospect or the N20 backfires that seem to happen to a lot of guys.
Now the next part of your post is spot on.....I agree with you 100%
=> The supercharger guys bickering about a bunch of B.S. that they will not remember as a significant part of their life if their life were flash before their eyes!
I just like to see the facts and had throw up the B.S. flag on Ben because I felt the whole documentation/empirical proof was seriously geting out of hand. I think you are right about breaking ball$ of potential pioneers. Look how a certain tuner gave Levin and Heffner a hard time when they were doing piggyback fuel systems for forced induction while THEY were using the Motec.........==> Well, it is good to see that price competition and stellar levels of customer service to do the right thing has given rise to the NEW Viper Supertuners who do it better and make more HP than the original ones for less $$$$$$$$$. Now you do not even hear of some of the original high price/low HP tuners anymore because they have either eliminated themselves from the market pricewise or from negative customer service practices or a little of both!
I am proud of Sean Roe for all of the good products he has innovated and brought to the marketplace! It looks like Larry Macedo is getting good press and doing quality work even though he endorses the tuner who can not be named on this board! That tuning he did for that UtahViper's car was beautiful!
==> I think the new guys always have to take a beating at first until they build a loyal following, that's just the way it is!
I think the good ones are all great for whatever niche they provide. No tuner can do it all! You all by now know which one is my favorite without my saying it!
Good luck all and Vipers rule!
I think there are nitrous guys, 1/4 mile guys, street racing guys, road racing guys and...... there are a$$wipes,... wait...that is a whole different post.... Anyway, there are a lot of different kinds of people who want different things out of their cars....... There is NO SINGLE SOLUTION that will accomodate everyones desires, budgets, form and function. Therefore I believe everybody should do what makes them happy...period!
I think the fundamental problem you have understanding the supercharger guys is that you are such a ********* drag racer who goes to the track and makes a pretty darned impressive # for a very reasonable price. You go to the track with the right amount of nitrous, you do your thing very well(embarrassing those poor vettes like you did last year=>shame on you!). For you that works.
For someone on the street who has done a couple of hard runs and has lower bottle pressure and is slower because of it and gets spanked by someone on the way to getting the refill, this is not a good thing! I am sure you would concur. ==> This is where the supercharger comes in handy.(This is the kind of guy I am) I am not enamored with the lower power from reduced bottle pressure prospect or the N20 backfires that seem to happen to a lot of guys.
Now the next part of your post is spot on.....I agree with you 100%
=> The supercharger guys bickering about a bunch of B.S. that they will not remember as a significant part of their life if their life were flash before their eyes!
I just like to see the facts and had throw up the B.S. flag on Ben because I felt the whole documentation/empirical proof was seriously geting out of hand. I think you are right about breaking ball$ of potential pioneers. Look how a certain tuner gave Levin and Heffner a hard time when they were doing piggyback fuel systems for forced induction while THEY were using the Motec.........==> Well, it is good to see that price competition and stellar levels of customer service to do the right thing has given rise to the NEW Viper Supertuners who do it better and make more HP than the original ones for less $$$$$$$$$. Now you do not even hear of some of the original high price/low HP tuners anymore because they have either eliminated themselves from the market pricewise or from negative customer service practices or a little of both!
I am proud of Sean Roe for all of the good products he has innovated and brought to the marketplace! It looks like Larry Macedo is getting good press and doing quality work even though he endorses the tuner who can not be named on this board! That tuning he did for that UtahViper's car was beautiful!
==> I think the new guys always have to take a beating at first until they build a loyal following, that's just the way it is!
I think the good ones are all great for whatever niche they provide. No tuner can do it all! You all by now know which one is my favorite without my saying it!
Good luck all and Vipers rule!
Paolo Castellano
Enthusiast
Paolo, the clean up man, brought out the sledge hammer.
AWESOME!
Hugh, I will have you know that I was the best sweeper when I was a bellman at the hotel! LOL!
Paolo Castellano
Enthusiast
Johnny, That's all you have to say to me after getting smoked???????
=>If you were the best there is at talking smack, THE WHEEL WOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN INVENTED!
Veery, fahunny......=>Special Won-Ton Soup fah him!
Repeat after me, "This is a Heffner thread......."
If you were spanish, I would call you JORGE!!!!!! Hit the road Jack!... er I mean uh...John!
P.S. Heffner has two f's in it, not one! "Call me SIR godamm!t"
Tom Welch
Enthusiast
Paolo,
Thanks for the kind words. I am a ********* "proof is in the pudding" kind of person. I try not to grate this against people, so please don't think that I was attacking you. We are all proud of our accomplishments, but it just seems as of the last few months, that a certain segment of the Viper community, SC owners/tuners, have risen up seemingly against each other and I don't feel that it does any of you any good. LET ME SAY THIS....I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST SUPER CHARGERS OR TURBOCHARGERS. Heck, I'm considering installing a Paxton on my own Viper and possibly one on top of our latest creation..one my customers 550 CI with Two Stages of spray.
As for different kinds of acceleration tests, the 1/4 mile is the most common timed test and 1/4 mile tracks abound our nation. There is nothing wrong with a salt flats racer, but most folks don't have the open road for these types of tests(most of us go from traffic light to traffic light). This is the main reason why I choose the 1/4 mile. It sets a standard measuring point that leaves no unknowns...even density altitude correction can be factored.
Any Viper owner can race the 1/4 mile and its no secret that the stock clutch and stock gears are best for these events...especially in highly modified Vipers. With that said, a simple set of drag tires will net ANY Viper its best elapsed time and MPH. I'd like to think that you folks could put together an event where you unstrap them cars from the drum, bolt on a "community set" of purners(Im sure Dr. Roof would pony up his)and find out who is the MAN..err SC Viper Man.
Take care,
Tom
Thanks for the kind words. I am a ********* "proof is in the pudding" kind of person. I try not to grate this against people, so please don't think that I was attacking you. We are all proud of our accomplishments, but it just seems as of the last few months, that a certain segment of the Viper community, SC owners/tuners, have risen up seemingly against each other and I don't feel that it does any of you any good. LET ME SAY THIS....I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST SUPER CHARGERS OR TURBOCHARGERS. Heck, I'm considering installing a Paxton on my own Viper and possibly one on top of our latest creation..one my customers 550 CI with Two Stages of spray.
As for different kinds of acceleration tests, the 1/4 mile is the most common timed test and 1/4 mile tracks abound our nation. There is nothing wrong with a salt flats racer, but most folks don't have the open road for these types of tests(most of us go from traffic light to traffic light). This is the main reason why I choose the 1/4 mile. It sets a standard measuring point that leaves no unknowns...even density altitude correction can be factored.
Any Viper owner can race the 1/4 mile and its no secret that the stock clutch and stock gears are best for these events...especially in highly modified Vipers. With that said, a simple set of drag tires will net ANY Viper its best elapsed time and MPH. I'd like to think that you folks could put together an event where you unstrap them cars from the drum, bolt on a "community set" of purners(Im sure Dr. Roof would pony up his)and find out who is the MAN..err SC Viper Man.
Take care,
Tom
Torquemonster
Enthusiast
Anyone for coffee and donuts?
I was aware of the two NA cars you mention here. I was only trying to point out that your statement made it sound like NA cars as a rule beat out the S/C cars. My car ran a 10.20 so that would mean only one NA car is faster.
I stand corrected on the number of 9-sec nitrous cars. As far as the 8-second car goes, if you take out the automatic it would no longer be an 8-second car. It's an awesome feat, but it's not really comparing apples with apples.
First of all, nobody is forcing you to read these threads. You can "vote" with your fingers and choose to ignore anything that is clearly marked with S/C or dyno results in the title.
Second, as I seem to recall, you are one of the last people who should talk about hijacking threads and self-congratulatory posts.
Also, I don't see any problem with people discussing performance results (of the dyno -OR- timeslip variety). If you take away all the threads that you mentioned above, this forum would be a lot less interesting around here lately.
Gerald
Enthusiast
Hey! Leave my motorcycle and Viper thread alone! I at least got a video of it and will get more! Would you rather see what polish us S/C'ing folks use to keep all the chrome and aluminum clean?
G
Would you rather see what polish us S/C'ing folks use to keep all the chrome and aluminum clean? G
