A C R Sport Cup Tire Track Time/ Wear?

[1HOTV10]

Set up our 04 for track use. On the street personally I like the look of 18/19
wheels. And don't want to have to change the track alignment to 18" all around just to run three or four times a year. Changed the 04 to 3:33 gears which are close to 18" all around. Have Montons, Stoptechs, and all the other usual suspects on board. P S-2s are on for the street but they will be toast after two weekends of track use . In a real world I would like to share set of track wheels and tires to use on either of our cars if necessary . What have you A C R trackers
gotten so far on your Sport Cups? Options?

 

[Boxer12]

I ran about 5 sessions on my PSC's and switched to Hoosier DOT's.

 

[FastZilla]

I've got 5200 miles, 4 hours of track time. Not quite on the wear marks. Tires are starting to get a bit greasy but not too bad. Expect to get 2-3 more hours of track time out of `em, then in the trash they'll go. Have a new set in the attic that will go with me to TWS.

Hoosiers are cheaper but literally have NO tread - just a groove down the middle. I got caught in rain in the Cups - 40-45mph was it!

If you want a set of track only wheels save the cash and get the Hoosiers. For street & track get the Cups.

 

[1HOTV10]

Sounds like the Hoosiers are the ticket. Speaking of ticket DOT in California means Department of Ticket. California needs state $$$$$$ . Radar wars oh yea! To the track on a trailer or stealth runs with basically slicks on our ride. Let the games begin!!!
Thanks for the info! Glenn..........

 

[Catwood]

I've got 5200 miles, 4 hours of track time. Not quite on the wear marks. Tires are starting to get a bit greasy but not too bad. Expect to get 2-3 more hours of track time out of `em, then in the trash they'll go. Have a new set in the attic that will go with me to TWS.

Hoosiers are cheaper but literally have NO tread - just a groove down the middle. I got caught in rain in the Cups - 40-45mph was it!

If you want a set of track only wheels save the cash and get the Hoosiers. For street & track get the Cups.

4 hours of track time isn't much in 5200 miles it would seem. I don't think it's the track time that's hurting. I'd get a good 6+ hours on most of my "used" dedicated track tires. And I know of someone that got a track weekend then about 1500 street miles on a used set of Toyo's.

 

[CarDude]

I just placed an order for new Cups this morning. I have 3200 miles on mine, plus quite a few hours on the track.

 

[FastZilla]

It really depends on the track. 1 hr on one track may ware the tires like 3 hrs on another track. I put about 1.5 hrs of time on them at HTP which consumes tires - even at my moderate 1:53 lap times. At the local track it's nowhere near the wear but the track is much shorter and slower. Track surface, temp, etc. drastically effect the wear rate on tires. So it's hard to get an even comparison unless someone has the same usage as another.

 

[CarDude]

It really depends on the track. 1 hr on one track may ware the tires like 3 hrs on another track. I put about 1.5 hrs of time on them at HTP which consumes tires - even at my moderate 1:53 lap times. At the local track it's nowhere near the wear but the track is much shorter and slower. Track surface, temp, etc. drastically effect the wear rate on tires. So it's hard to get an even comparison unless someone has the same usage as another.

This weekend was fun...we just came back from the track a few minutes ago...dang it is so hot here. The heat kills the HP and the tires.

 

[fireball]

Wow. I don't get nearly the wear you guys are getting. My car has less than 5000 miles on it and I've gone through multiple sets of Cup tires. I did get pretty good wear at Infineon and Thunderhill. 1 set lasted more than 4 days but I get nowhere near that mileage at my home track in Calgary.

Having said that - I'm running under the track record for a street car on street tires. That's likely causing some extra wear but I still get nowhere the mileage the others are getting. It's a good thing they make more tires everyday!

They're closing my local track this fall so I want to keep at the track record and I want to hold it in perpetuity. It's important to me that the car remains stock.

Greg

 

[CCBrian]

Wow. I don't get nearly the wear you guys are getting. My car has less than 5000 miles on it and I've gone through multiple sets of Cup tires. I did get pretty good wear at Infineon and Thunderhill. 1 set lasted more than 4 days but I get nowhere near that mileage at my home track in Calgary.

Having said that - I'm running under the track record for a street car on street tires. That's likely causing some extra wear but I still get nowhere the mileage the others are getting. It's a good thing they make more tires everyday!

They're closing my local track this fall so I want to keep at the track record and I want to hold it in perpetuity. It's important to me that the car remains stock.

Greg

Greg, what were your times at Thunderhill?
Brian

 

[fireball]

Greg, what were your times at Thunderhill?
Brian

I need to check my binder with the printouts (from my Race Logic performance box)... I'll take a look tonight when I get home and post tonight.

I know it was over 2 minutes... and 5 seconds??? I need to check.

In any event it was my first time there and I'm sure there's a bit of time lost everwhere. Especially in the fast left hander on the 'backside' Can it be taken flat out in an ACR? I never managed it but with more track time I think I might be able to. I'm just dumb enough to try too. There's a ton of runoff there! Yee Haw!

One more thing. I think in 2 days I only had about 10 laps without catching someone that slowed my lap down. Just the same, my fast lap is my fast lap. No excuses.... OK, a few excusus.

Greg

 

[CCBrian]

I need to check my binder with the printouts (from my Race Logic performance box)... I'll take a look tonight when I get home and post tonight.

I know it was over 2 minutes... and 5 seconds??? I need to check.

In any event it was my first time there and I'm sure there's a bit of time lost everwhere. Especially in the fast left hander on the 'backside' Can it be taken flat out in an ACR? I never managed it but with more track time I think I might be able to. I'm just dumb enough to try too. There's a ton of runoff there! Yee Haw!

One more thing. I think in 2 days I only had about 10 laps without catching someone that slowed my lap down. Just the same, my fast lap is my fast lap. No excuses.... OK, a few excusus.

Greg

I was just courious...you were faster at Infineon that I was that first time out in the car. I have got under 2 minutes on my third track day out at TH...but that is my "home" track. I just got the STO/BP SCCA race record there in my Comp Coupe at 1.55.2 . Its just seat time. But for those who know Greg, he is fast.

 

[FastZilla]

I figure if you can drive on grease then you can fly on sticky tires! That track is awesome! I love the informal atmosphere there. I think my membership papers are going to find there way back to the track next month.

For the tire wear - 1700 miles of that was from San Antonio to HTP and back. Lots of hwy driving - tires last a long time just going down the hwy.

This weekend was fun...we just came back from the track a few minutes ago...dang it is so hot here. The heat kills the HP and the tires.

 

[SoCal Rebell]

I need to check my binder with the printouts (from my Race Logic performance box)... I'll take a look tonight when I get home and post tonight.

I know it was over 2 minutes... and 5 seconds??? I need to check.

Greg

That's not great, in 2003 at the OTC (Open Track Challenge) my co-driver and I turned a 2:02.xx on a stock motored, stock suspension 2002 GTS on Michelin MXXX tires (160 rating), Paul Mumford turned a 1:55.xx in a street Gen 2 on R3S03s, in Unlimited group.

BTW, it was with the 5a turn.

 

[CCBrian]

That's not great, in 2003 at the OTC (Open Track Challenge) my co-driver and I turned a 2:02.xx on a stock motored, stock suspension 2002 GTS on Michelin MXXX tires (160 rating), Paul Mumford turned a 1:55.xx in a street Gen 2 on R3S03s, in Unlimited group.

BTW, it was with the 5a turn.

I am sure you did but track is slower these days...they have cut the run off areas down and usually put big sand filled barrels up on some of the curbing we used to run over. I would say the track is now 2-3 seconds slower than it was in 2003...espeically this past year after it was repaved. He ran earlier in the year when it was only a few month old surface...it is slowly getting faster as its being used. The times everyone are turning are slower than earlier last year.

 

[YellowViperSRT10]

I've got 5200 miles, 4 hours of track time. Not quite on the wear marks. Tires are starting to get a bit greasy but not too bad. Expect to get 2-3 more hours of track time out of `em, then in the trash they'll go. Have a new set in the attic that will go with me to TWS.

Hoosiers are cheaper but literally have NO tread - just a groove down the middle. I got caught in rain in the Cups - 40-45mph was it!

If you want a set of track only wheels save the cash and get the Hoosiers. For street & track get the Cups.

I have put lots of miles on PSC and there is no problem driving them in the rain. I drove my car daily with them in the summer Florida crazy rain and flooding streets. They are still a street tire that is ok for rain. It is not great in rain but there is no need to drive 40-50 mph on them. They are totally safe for highway speeds as long as you are careful.

 

[CarDude]

Is it me or are the egos in this thread a bit large?

 

[fireball]

Greg, what were your times at Thunderhill?
Brian

I ran in the low 2:02's - getting a little better every lap...

Since it was my first time there they didn't put me in the fastest group so traffic was fairly heavy. In the 2 days I was there I only managed 8 clear laps. There was always someone in the way. Just the same, it's not like I wasn't learning the rest of the track when I had to pass someone.

FWIW the weather was cold and windy with the occasional spit of rain - but never enough to wet the track.

Id really like to go back again - that track is a blast. I just love that track.

Question. Is it possible to do the high speed 'kink' on the backside of the track flat out in an ACR? I didn't... but I think I can. I'm not sure.

Greg


BTW, ONE poster jumps in to say how crappy everyone else's times are and how fantastic their times are does not mean there's a 'lot of big ego's here'. 'Ego' - maybe. 'Ego's' - no.

There's a lot of varience at a race track. At my local track there may be a 2-3 second change from one day to the next - just on weather and track condition. These lap times are relative. Racing is not. Everyone is there on the same day, at the same time following the same rules. Fair and square.

 

[CCBrian]

Is it me or are the egos in this thread a bit large?

Yes, I think their might be an ego here. Most of us use forums like this to stay in touch with people we meet whom we might not get to see very often. We also use such comparisions not as ego drivers, but as bench marks to compare how our cars are running. I asked Greg for his times because I know he had a good setup on his ACR, and from being on the track, we were both good "club" racers. This type of banter isn't about who's faster, but what works.I was using a "rough track" set up on my ACR, and he was using a "smooth Track set-up". The fact that his first time out was equal to mine, tells me his set-up works well-in fact probably better on that track. Most of us will share these setup between ourselves-heck even non pro club racers help each other. So most of us talking on this forum is not about ego, but rather learning from each other.

 

[CarDude]

Yes, I think their might be an ego here. Most of us use forums like this to stay in touch with people we meet whom we might not get to see very often. We also use such comparisions not as ego drivers, but as bench marks to compare how our cars are running. I asked Greg for his times because I know he had a good setup on his ACR, and from being on the track, we were both good "club" racers. This type of banter isn't about who's faster, but what works.I was using a "rough track" set up on my ACR, and he was using a "smooth Track set-up". The fact that his first time out was equal to mine, tells me his set-up works well-in fact probably better on that track. Most of us will share these setup between ourselves-heck even non pro club racers help each other. So most of us talking on this forum is not about ego, but rather learning from each other.

If that is the case then awesome...it just comes across different but no big deal.

No harm no foul.

I do need help with my car's set-up. I haven't even checked the shock setup. But the car is feeling like it rolls and bouces too much. We just got in some scales and I need to set the car up for track use...

Please help me with set-up. I used to race karts (and drive with the throttle too much) and this car loves to push with the current set-up.

 

[SoCal Rebell]

I'm sorry I didn't mean to come off condesending. But when I heard track record and 2:05 I posted an observation. And it wasn't me that posted the 2:02, it was John Dearing my co-driver, I was at like 2:08 I haven't been to T-hill in a few years and I didn't know about all the work that was done on the track. I'm sure if I came up there with an ACR I'd get my ass handed to me, sorry for any confusion.

Ron

 

[fireball]

There's a lot of LOVE here!

Awesome.

As far as set-up. I've been playing a lot with my cars set-up and I have all the information at home (I'm at work) but from memory I have the car basically set to the ACR supplimental manual recommendations for a smooth track. I followed their ride height recomendations and have never changed them. Right now I have the compression and rebound set to '9' all around but I still need to test it. When I was a TH I had the compression set to 4 and rebound to 5. I had 23 psi front and 24 psi cold rear. I've been running this basic set-up most of the summer. I can check my books tonight but that's what I remember.
The car is fairly neutral with nice turn in and good rotation while trail braking with just a little push through the middle of the corner and on exit. I'd really like to get rid of the push. I occasionally measure my tread temps and I'm getting nowhere near the temps I'd like - I'm way low. The tire is, however, balling up nicely and visually looks correct. They're just not getting hot enough but I don't want to go lower with the pressures. I'm running about 34 to 35 psi hot.

I'm willing to share all my set-up and alignment info, I just need to look in my set-up book. I can do that tonight if anyone's interested.

Greg

 

[CCBrian]

There's a lot of LOVE here!

Awesome.

As far as set-up. I've been playing a lot with my cars set-up and I have all the information at home (I'm at work) but from memory I have the car basically set to the ACR supplimental manual recommendations for a smooth track. I followed their ride height recomendations and have never changed them. Right now I have the compression and rebound set to '9' all around but I still need to test it. When I was a TH I had the compression set to 4 and rebound to 5. I had 23 psi front and 24 psi cold rear. I've been running this basic set-up most of the summer. I can check my books tonight but that's what I remember.
The car is fairly neutral with nice turn in and good rotation while trail braking with just a little push through the middle of the corner and on exit. I'd really like to get rid of the push. I occasionally measure my tread temps and I'm getting nowhere near the temps I'd like - I'm way low. The tire is, however, balling up nicely and visually looks correct. They're just not getting hot enough but I don't want to go lower with the pressures. I'm running about 34 to 35 psi hot.

I'm willing to share all my set-up and alignment info, I just need to look in my set-up book. I can do that tonight if anyone's interested.

Greg

Me!!!! I need help with the setup!

 

[fireball]

I'll post it tonight when I have access to my book.

Something interesting though. I can see that the rear tires have rubbed the inside of the fender liner. I set the ride height as per the ACR manual but there's not an extra millimeter of space there!

Greg

 

[Brad04Mamba]

That's not great, in 2003 at the OTC (Open Track Challenge) my co-driver and I turned a 2:02.xx on a stock motored, stock suspension 2002 GTS on Michelin MXXX tires (160 rating), Paul Mumford turned a 1:55.xx in a street Gen 2 on R3S03s, in Unlimited group.

BTW, it was with the 5a turn.

No fair mentioning Mumford. Lets stick to times normal humans can attain.

 

[CarDude]

Thanks...I keep meaning to do some set-up changes...just busy.

 

[fastmd]

I am now running smooth track set-up, and tire pressures of 36-37 hot are working the best for me.

 

[Viper X]

Hey Glenn,

I'd avoid the "Cups" at this point as they are very expensive and don't really last very long or work that well.

If I were you, really just starting out tracking a Viper, I'd start on a good set of street tires and progress from there.

They will give you much better feed back, they'll get nosiy and let you know when you're going into a turn too fast before they let go.

The OE Gen IV PS2's are pretty sticky tires for street tires. You will get more than 2 track weekends out of your PS2's with a proper alignment. Call Jon B for more info and to buy a set.

As you gain experience, you can move up to stickier tires.

Hope to see you at the track soon,

Dan

 

[fireball]

Here's the set-up I used at Thunderhill. It's also the set-up I'm currently using sort of..... It may or may not work for you but it has me notably under the track record at my local track for a street car with street tires.

Camber front -2.3 degrees
rear -2.0 degrees
Toe front 2 minutes (total toe 4 minutes)
rear 1 minute

Castor +5.5 degrees

Ride Height front 106mm
rear 135mm

Compression front 6
rear 6
Rebound front 5
rear 5

Tire Pressure front 25 cold 33 hot
rear 28 cold 37 hot

Tire temps vary - but roughly front 120 after a cool down lap
rear 130 after a cool down lap

I hope this helps!

This is what I used at Thunderhill.

Greg

 

[FastZilla]

OK - It seems I'm the one with the most miles on the PSCs here, that I know of.

I found the limit of the PSC this weekend at TWS. Have 5800 miles on them and after 3 sessions I corded the rt frnt tire. The rears look worn evenly and still have a good bit of tread (drag radials for my RT!!!). Put the new tires on and dropped almost 5 seconds off my times - guess they were toast.

I did drop my cold pressures to 29f/28r to compensate for the greasy tire. Kept my times in the range. Seems for me I like 30f/29r cold. But who knows - I'm a newbe.

Summary:
~6 hours of track time
~5500 street miles