a little birdie says......

[kennyhemi]

stop taliking about the 6.1!!!!!!! its a 6.4 now!!!!!!!!! dont go backwards, its gonna be even slower... its bad enough you guys are even thinking about that.....lol

Thank you bluesrt! I was getting annoying with the 6.1 talk! Which brings up the question. Is a 6.4 half is much $$ as a 8.7 V10? I think if they were going to put a 6.4 in it you would have to strip down all the other performance goodies like suspension, brakes, steering, wheels. As well as less agressive outward apparance, alla corvette. which is what we don't
want a watered down viper. But we all know it sell more units and there goes exclusivity.

 

[kennyhemi]

1. What would you do with all the extra room insuide the engine compartment if you used a 6.4 engine? Cupholders?

2. With that said, I would not refuse a 6.4 engine or a 426 CI engine with forged internals and an Eaton supercharger system producing 800 HP/700 lbs of torque. ( Don't worry. Such an engine will never be in a Viper.)

Room for two BIGGER turbos!

 

[moldowan]

My thoughts on this is Listen to Bill Pemberton's birdie . Its a smart Owl compared to your chicken

we'll see ;-)

 

[ferraritoviper]

My thoughts on this is Listen to Bill Pemberton's birdie . Its a smart Owl compared to your chicken

Smartest post yet on this thread...imo.

 

[moldowan]

Smartest post yet on this thread...imo.

yeah my birdie has the same clout as bill.....not sure if making an assumtion like that equates to "smart" IMO, but you are entitled to your opinion. If i'm right i will laugh like hell, but truth be told i hope i'm wrong!

 

[moldowan]

three different trim levels..base (95K) mid (120K) hight (140K)........ one week to go.........LOL

 

[Chrissss]

........bs.........

three different trim levels..base (95K) mid (120K) hight (140K)........ one week to go.........LOL

 

[Smog Dog]

three different trim levels..base (95K) mid (120K) hight (140K)........ one week to go.........LOL

Will be interesting to see if this is true. One of the major dealers has told me we won't find out the price at the reveal. He did say the base price would be close to the 2010 and there are a lot of expensive options.

Bill

 

[PDCjonny]

three different trim levels..base (95K) mid (120K) hight (140K)........ one week to go.........LOL

140K will really help spur the used Lambo market.

 

[Pythonpete]

What the heck am I getting for an extra 55K? An Audi?

 

[mnc2886]

140K will really help spur the used Lambo market.

In my opinion, the used car market for higher end sport cars/exotics is huge competition for the new vehicles. I hope SRT realizes this. A price point over where the Gen IV ACR was is suicide for the new Viper.

 

[PDCjonny]

In my opinion, the used car market for higher end sport cars/exotics is huge competition for the new vehicles. I hope SRT realizes this. A price point over where the Gen IV ACR was is suicide for the new Viper.

I agree. In that pricing playground you could get a very nice low mileage 07-08 Gallardo and have a true exotic.

 

[AviP]

In my opinion, the used car market for higher end sport cars/exotics is huge competition for the new vehicles. I hope SRT realizes this. A price point over where the Gen IV ACR was is suicide for the new Viper.

+1. I see this scenario unfolding at this pricepoint. I think the dealers still sitting with "new" 2010 Gen IV inventory will be happy at this pricepoint. They will get to sell their stuff without a loss (no profit either). OTOH, they will not invest much in the Gen V and Chrysler will be forced to hand out huge discounts on the Viper. Sergio Marchionne will be pissed and kick Ralph Gilles butt appointing a new Fiat based successor. We will then get more Italian design input and get a hot looking car albeit with a mid-mounted V10. That's my fantasy Gen VI.

 

[Voodoo Rob]

What the heck am I getting for an extra 55K? An Audi?

Porsche has used this pricing strategy for years. Look at a base "911" and then look at the Mac daddy "911". There is a $125k or more swing in pricing. Is it good? Does it erode sales and degrade product? What marketing signals does it send to consumers? Could SRT pull this off while moving away from"Dodge" marketing tactics and techniques? Guess we will have some idea of what SRT has in mind next week if we are going to see a "build a viper" program some what like Corvette or if it is going to be a one drive train offering. Stir the *** with this thought, multiple V10s with different HP ratings and the goodies associated. NY may just be a reveal without significant info anyway.

 

[kdaviper]

I agree. In that pricing playground you could get a very nice low mileage 07-08 Gallardo and have a true exotic.

So what's the SAE definition of exotic again? Ohhh, that's right, there is none!
Not only this, but to say a car isn't worth a certain price without seeing the finished product or even knowing anything about the mechanical goodies is preposterous. What if the 140k is for a 900 hp turbocharged superveloche version? I'm not saying that'll be the price, or that's what you're going to get, but until you know exactly what the product is, you don't know exacltly what it's worth.

 

[TrackAire]

Lack of information at the NY reveal is why I'm not going....I don't just need to look at the car, I want to know all the specs, options, etc.

I think it may be too soon for SRT to have the final numbers by next week.

George

 

[PDCjonny]

So what's the SAE definition of exotic again? Ohhh, that's right, there is none!

There may not be an exact definition of an "exotic", but one thing for sure.
A Lambo is and a Viper is not by anyones definition.

 

[Paul Hawker]

Think the options way is the best.

Vettes offer several levels, with significant price point differences.

When Viper released the ACR, it was really the same car, but with significant track and cosmetic options. Better aero, brakes, suspension all added to the price. Those that wanted a base car were happy, and those wanting additional track performance could get the upgrade package. Seemed like everyone was happy, and Dodge was able to sell lots more Vipers.

These forums are full of individual requests (and some times demands) that SRT would do certain things regarding pricing and options. Seems like everybody has their idea of what would be the perfect Viper (for them), but it was obvious that variety of choice was really what was requested.

In earlier years, Viper only came one way. Long runs of only one color, with no options available was necessary for the factory to produce the quanities required at the right price. But as time went by, Viper got more and more flexible. They offered many more colors, radio choices, wheel choices, coupe/convertible choices, brake choices, suspension choices, stripe choices, interior package choices, and lots of special editions. Seemed like this was well received, as the forum started filling up with individuals that their choice was the best, and that the others had made foolish choices : >)

Believe this option of many choices is the way that Vipers will be produced in the future, and I believe that their future is bright indeed.

 

[ACR steve]

Jon - "There may not be an exact definition of an "exotic", but one thing for sure.
A Lambo is and a Viper is not by anyones definition. "


Usually agree with you and have your back .But even I must disagree here. Money no object you buy me a car I can’t sell itand must drive it. I take my ACR hands down over any Lambo. To me it’s anexotic tool in my hands. Lambo is just exotic

 

[PDCjonny]

The above is true Paul but the most important thing was there was only ONE motor per generation!
That's the difference between us and Chevy, Ford etc...a Gen 2 Viper had 450HP at a minimum. It might have more but it can't have less.
Hopefully the available options will only be in regards to the usual cosmetics and not motor options.

Steve no arguing an ACR's performance superiority over most every Lambo or Ferrari, that's obvious.
But a Viper is not an "exotic".

 

[kdaviper]

why don't you look up the definition of exotic. Actually, i'll save you the time. From Merriam Webster: 2. Strikingly, excitingly, or mysteriously different or unusual. That to me sums up the Viper's styling and performance attitude, and It's probably why you don't have a ZR1 parked in your garage instead of an ACR.

 

[SnakeBitten]

I always find the topic of the Viper being or not being exotic interesting. Its hand built, rough and raw, scarse, amoung the fastest cars of any price range, looks exotic in other words different from the norm etc. I grew up with that definition of exotic being used on the older 70's-80's Ferraris, Lambo's, Lotus's etc. Now you have an American car that fits that to a tee and its not exotic?

Over the years Ive seen many mags refer to it as exotic or American exotic etc. I believe that either side of this argument boils down to our individual opinion. I respect both opinions. Mine happens to be that the Viper is an exotic. Entry level exotic with hyper exotic performance on track.

 

[PDCjonny]

I'll grant you the 'American exotic" moniker.

 

[kdaviper]

Jon, perhaps the reason the Viper no longer seems exotic to you is that you've owned 4 of them. I'm lucky to see one in a year where I live and usually, I'm in Ft Wayne or Indianapolis when I do get a glimpse of one. I almost wreck every time I do :{P. That head-jerking lane-veering effect is why I will always see the Viper as an exotic.

 

[PDCjonny]

You could be right KD.
Just for the sake of debating (in fun) here are my main two points of why the current Viper isn't a true exotic.
Not talking about performance which is only part of the equation.

1. No car with an interior as cheap looking, as cheap feeling and made of the crappiest plastic like current Vipers can be considered an exotic.
My '10 stickered at 113K and the dashboard assembly makes Civic owners blush..now I know it's a race car for the street please no lectures. But there is literally spots where glue has oozed out and is visible..my god...it's bad...But even the lowliest 2004 Lambo has beautiful stitching, detailed interior great seats etc. It looks way better than any run of the mile assembly line car, not WORSE. Exotics always have great interiors. This is also why the ZR1 isn't an exotic as well.

2. Price. They didn't have a high enough MSRP to start with and the resale values are too low. Using a Gallardo as an example, you would be hard pressed to find even a 2004 with high mileage for less than say+-80K and that's a piece-o-crap. The depreciate to a point but they won't ever go below a certain quite high level. Gen 2 Vipers in decent shape can be had for 30K, that's not exotic pricing.

 

[Smog Dog]

You could be right KD.
Just for the sake of debating (in fun) here are my main two points of why the current Viper isn't a true exotic.
Not talking about performance which is only part of the equation.

1. No car with an interior as cheap looking, as cheap feeling and made of the crappiest plastic like current Vipers can be considered an exotic.
My '10 stickered at 113K and the dashboard assembly makes Civic owners blush..now I know it's a race car for the street please no lectures. But there is literally spots where glue has oozed out and is visible..my god...it's bad...But even the lowliest 2004 Lambo has beautiful stitching, detailed interior great seats etc. It looks way better than any run of the mile assembly line car, not WORSE. Exotics always have great interiors. This is also why the ZR1 isn't an exotic as well.

2. Price. They didn't have a high enough MSRP to start with and the resale values are too low. Using a Gallardo as an example, you would be hard pressed to find even a 2004 with high mileage for less than say+-80K and that's a piece-o-crap. The depreciate to a point but they won't ever go below a certain quite high level. Gen 2 Vipers in decent shape can be had for 30K, that's not exotic pricing.

Must say I agree with this, especially the part about price and depreciation. I also think Dodge was not trying to create an exotic....

Bill

 

[Voodoo Rob]

I agree with ViperJohn's points on this one. All well pointed out and that's why the Viper falls into the American Exotic category. In American terms its exotic but not on the worldwide scene. The interior is a big hurdle that needs to be addressed but the car has been a certain level for so long. If Gen V came out with a 200k price tag and a uber ultra interior would it make the car a worldwide exotic? The answer lies in another thread on our forum going on right now. "It will always be a Mustang no matter....". Think about it and support it for what it is.

 

[SnakeBitten]

You could be right KD.
Just for the sake of debating (in fun) here are my main two points of why the current Viper isn't a true exotic.
Not talking about performance which is only part of the equation.

1. No car with an interior as cheap looking, as cheap feeling and made of the crappiest plastic like current Vipers can be considered an exotic.
My '10 stickered at 113K and the dashboard assembly makes Civic owners blush..now I know it's a race car for the street please no lectures. But there is literally spots where glue has oozed out and is visible..my god...it's bad...But even the lowliest 2004 Lambo has beautiful stitching, detailed interior great seats etc. It looks way better than any run of the mile assembly line car, not WORSE. Exotics always have great interiors. This is also why the ZR1 isn't an exotic as well.

2. Price. They didn't have a high enough MSRP to start with and the resale values are too low. Using a Gallardo as an example, you would be hard pressed to find even a 2004 with high mileage for less than say+-80K and that's a piece-o-crap. The depreciate to a point but they won't ever go below a certain quite high level. Gen 2 Vipers in decent shape can be had for 30K, that's not exotic pricing.

Nice. Buuut on the interior cheapness part I know you seen Lotus? Even going back in the day to the older Lambos [pre Diablo of course], Ferrari's, lotus, Porsches etc those weren't the best interiors by far. Yet they were still exotic. You cant equate a much higher priced cars depreciation to a car far less expensive imho. An 85k GTS depreciates to 30k to me is pretty much ok. Its much older than the Gallardo and cheaper. The Gallardo is newer and 175k to 80k to me is a much larger depreciation no?

 

[PDCjonny]

Judging by the look of the latest teaser pic, they have taken care of point # 1....

 

[Voodoo Rob]

Judging by the look of the latest teaser pic, they have taken care of point # 1....

Agree on this point