thebigsnake
Enthusiast
No wonder whoever they were chasing didn't want to be caught. They don't just give you a ticket but actually arrest you for speeding(?) in the land of the free.
A new danger for everyday drivers
- Thread starter SEASNAKE
- Start date
andrew8896
Enthusiast
Yeah, get a copy of that cruiser's video and post in on here!! I doubt they would agree to giving you a copy.. but then again if you offer one of them a Viper ride in return..
gthomas
Enthusiast
andrew, r u going 2 + da name 2 ur sig
Along the same line--- what if they were chasing a Camry or Honda?? HMMMMM-- Let's check all Honda and Camry owners too? What a buncha bs. I too dislike, (read that almost hate), cops. Most couldn't find their own ***'z if there was a bell attached. Most police work is after the fact. If not for stupid criminals-- they'd catch no one. Never let em in--period!!!!! John--venting again!!!
Warfang
Enthusiast
Now I've been involved in some high-speed chases (on the side of good, thank you), and half the times, the perp gets away. Wonder why I never see those on "World's Scariest Police Chases?"
I just LOOOVE the fake chopper pilot narrative: "We have a code-4... I repeat, we have a code-4." Makes me want to put a bullet through the teevee.
joe117
Enthusiast
Yup, they lied about having "reason to believe your car was stolen".
It doesn't even make sense if you think about it.
If they had been chasing a Viper with your tag number, they would think it was you that they had been chasing.
Why would they think someone stole your car?
But I don't think it's illegal for a cop to lie to a suspect. They can pick up two suspects and tell one that his buddy confessed.
Having the only blue Viper registered in your area might even be probable cause to come and talk to you, and even try to trick you into letting them see the car.
They probably really did think it was you driving.
As others have said, you would have been taken downtown if your car was warm.
I don't believe they could have made the case that it was you, even if the car had been warm, but I bet they would have taken you in for a little talk downtown.
You ducked a bad time because your car was cold.
They did trick you, but I don't think what they did was illegal.
I'm not saying that I like them or that they are fair. I just don't think they broke the law.
It doesn't even make sense if you think about it.
If they had been chasing a Viper with your tag number, they would think it was you that they had been chasing.
Why would they think someone stole your car?
But I don't think it's illegal for a cop to lie to a suspect. They can pick up two suspects and tell one that his buddy confessed.
Having the only blue Viper registered in your area might even be probable cause to come and talk to you, and even try to trick you into letting them see the car.
They probably really did think it was you driving.
As others have said, you would have been taken downtown if your car was warm.
I don't believe they could have made the case that it was you, even if the car had been warm, but I bet they would have taken you in for a little talk downtown.
You ducked a bad time because your car was cold.
They did trick you, but I don't think what they did was illegal.
I'm not saying that I like them or that they are fair. I just don't think they broke the law.
SEASNAKE
Enthusiast
I plan on calling the police in the morning to see if I can get the report. I want to read it to see what cause they had to go to my house and wake me, my family and my neighbors up. I think the whole thing was pretty lame. I believe they pulled up my tags and made up the information. No one could see a sapphire viper at night and think it was blue. They would have been looking for a black viper. If they could get my new address, then they could have gotten my new phone number and called me. It obviously wasn't my car, so I seriously doubt they saw the plates either. The more I think about it, the more PO'd I become. Unfortunately, I drive by the police station twice daily, so I will probably just let it go rather than face more unwanted attention.
Jay Herbert
Enthusiast
Hope you didn't have to get up early for work
Taking it to the track is the way to go now-a-days. A few weekends ago on a "spirited Viper cruise" one person did something VERY stupid, passed a minivan on a double yellow at a "excelerated" clip. Well folks, cell phones are faster than ANY Viper. Just a quick 911 call, and the whole group was met at the next town by the local Magistrate. On the way back? An officer at every bend in the road.
Your neighbor was ringing their car out in the middle of the night to avoid traffic, but more and more, law enforcement is trying to curb this practice. In Chicago, crotch rockets routinely run wild at 3AM, and riders are routinely killed in accidents. There is a full fledged effort to stop the night riders who seem intent on decreaseing the size of their gene pool.
Taking it to the track is the way to go now-a-days. A few weekends ago on a "spirited Viper cruise" one person did something VERY stupid, passed a minivan on a double yellow at a "excelerated" clip. Well folks, cell phones are faster than ANY Viper. Just a quick 911 call, and the whole group was met at the next town by the local Magistrate. On the way back? An officer at every bend in the road.
Your neighbor was ringing their car out in the middle of the night to avoid traffic, but more and more, law enforcement is trying to curb this practice. In Chicago, crotch rockets routinely run wild at 3AM, and riders are routinely killed in accidents. There is a full fledged effort to stop the night riders who seem intent on decreaseing the size of their gene pool.
Warfang
Enthusiast
I have to agree, but was the offense so heinous that the cops had to sacrifice their own credibility? So I should then always suspect that I am a suspect and that everything a cop tells me is a lie that tries to entrap me? I would have been more understanding if they said that I might be a suspect, because they remember seeing me with a similar car, but that they can clear me right there and then if I can show them that my car was cold.
I would lead the way, thermometer in hand, to show them the car's temp.
BLWNASP
Enthusiast
This is an interesting one. For those that have been arrested before this is pretty obvious. They came to your door because they thought you could have been the driver. Because it's nightime, more than likely they are ony really going to be able to tell it's a "dark" colored vehicle. They knew you owned a Viper and figured it could be your's. The only problem was they needed some reason to check/inspect your vehicle and have a reasonable cause/reason to wake you up. They did this in case you decide to pursue further action, they will only state that they pursued a possible stolen Viper and your's could have been it. They came by the house to "see" if it was stolen, or had you been driving. They simply are covering their ****.
I hear the riders of exotic sport's cars and especially motorcycles at night. I live near an open stretch of a Freeway entrance and hear vehicles opening up all the time.
It does seem the track really is the best place, as it always has been.
Bone up on your Voodoo skills.
I hear the riders of exotic sport's cars and especially motorcycles at night. I live near an open stretch of a Freeway entrance and hear vehicles opening up all the time.
It does seem the track really is the best place, as it always has been.
Bone up on your Voodoo skills.
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
No, they were fishing for a possible suspect, not covering anything. If they really thought the car was stolen, they woldn't have further asked to see if the engine was warm or not. I would have checked the garage by myself and told them if the car was there or not. Great break if it was stolen, the cops are there to take the report for the insurance, but don't expect for them to get it back. They are too busy writing J-walking tickets to old ladys
Warfang
Enthusiast
We all know exactly what they were doing and why... we don't need a recap with a different twist every 3 posts. It's all lazy cops thinking they're soo damn smart. Well that GED sure isn't proof of intelligence. Our country was founded against these practices perpetrated by the damn Brits and their mercenary soldiers.
joe117
Enthusiast
If you are ever caught at anything more than a minor traffic violation, don't talk to the cops.
Any questions that they ask are not designed to help you.
Had you been the driver of the car, the best thing to do would have been to not respond to their banging on the door.
But you were not the perp in this case and since you could get out of their attention by cooperating, you probably did the best thing.
I still believe that the cops had probable cause to come and talk to you and ASK to see your car.
I don't believe that they could have gotten a warrant to see your car.
Any questions that they ask are not designed to help you.
Had you been the driver of the car, the best thing to do would have been to not respond to their banging on the door.
But you were not the perp in this case and since you could get out of their attention by cooperating, you probably did the best thing.
I still believe that the cops had probable cause to come and talk to you and ASK to see your car.
I don't believe that they could have gotten a warrant to see your car.
gthomas
Enthusiast
Hmmm, what probable cause?
joe117
Enthusiast
"Hmmm, what probable cause?"
I think that if the cops knew about a single Viper in the local area, and they had been chasing a Viper that they thought was SEASNAKE's,
That would give them probable cause to come and TALK to him and ASK to see his car.
Look,
If because of some crime they were looking for a red van with some plumber's logo on the side, and they knew that there was such a van in the area, they might go TALK with the owner.
Following up a lead is standard police work.
I don't think the cops had any right to check his car to see if it was warm. He let them do that.
If he had said, "I'm going back to bed",
I think that would have been the end of it.
Remember, these cops didn't come to hassle an innocent man.
They really thought he was the one they had chased.
They could only go so far with the information they had.
They told a lie in order to see if they had the right guy.
If it had been a silver Honda, they couldn't treat that as probable cause, there's lots of them.
A Viper is different.
If they chase a blue Viper and you are the only one in town, they just might come TALK to you.
I believe they had a right to TALK to you if you would TALK to them.
I don't think they had enough for a warrant if you had told them to leave.
I think that if the cops knew about a single Viper in the local area, and they had been chasing a Viper that they thought was SEASNAKE's,
That would give them probable cause to come and TALK to him and ASK to see his car.
Look,
If because of some crime they were looking for a red van with some plumber's logo on the side, and they knew that there was such a van in the area, they might go TALK with the owner.
Following up a lead is standard police work.
I don't think the cops had any right to check his car to see if it was warm. He let them do that.
If he had said, "I'm going back to bed",
I think that would have been the end of it.
Remember, these cops didn't come to hassle an innocent man.
They really thought he was the one they had chased.
They could only go so far with the information they had.
They told a lie in order to see if they had the right guy.
If it had been a silver Honda, they couldn't treat that as probable cause, there's lots of them.
A Viper is different.
If they chase a blue Viper and you are the only one in town, they just might come TALK to you.
I believe they had a right to TALK to you if you would TALK to them.
I don't think they had enough for a warrant if you had told them to leave.
AviP
Enthusiast
Every profession has it's share of idiots. Cops just have a lot more.
Never allow the cops in without a search warrant. In this case, your location next to the cops made you a prime suspect. That's ridiculous. It is better to uphold your legal rights than let them walk all over you. I've been the victim of a bad cop in the past. I spoke to his supervisor and got things ironed out. DEFINITELY GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS. Because if you don't, you'll always live in fear.
Never allow the cops in without a search warrant. In this case, your location next to the cops made you a prime suspect. That's ridiculous. It is better to uphold your legal rights than let them walk all over you. I've been the victim of a bad cop in the past. I spoke to his supervisor and got things ironed out. DEFINITELY GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS. Because if you don't, you'll always live in fear.
Andrew/USPWR
Enthusiast
Thanks Joe. Finally another point of view.
I don’t know if I would say the cops had a RIGHT to come and question SEASNAKE's. I just think these were some cops using their personal knowledge of the areas autos to catch the person driving around like an ass before someone get killed.
Imagine a post were we’re praising some cops, that were on the ball, and catch some guy that ran over a little girl. Because the cops recalled where the bright green Honda with gold wheels and a NOS tank in the back lived. The cops took a shot and went to the guys house and caught him in his garage picking the little girls hair and blood out of his grill and now he’s in jail off the street.
I think we all need to give these cops a break. I know it take a certain type of personality to ever want to be a cop in the first place and they love the badge and all the power that comes with it. But thank God someone is willing to do it. I know “ for me” there’s no government perk or salary to get me to chase some armed crack addict down some dark ally in the middle of the night. These guys spend their 40 hour each week dealing with the worst type of people, day in and day out.
I think SEASNAKE's did the right thing. I would have thanked the cop for being on the ball and not just going back to the coffee shop for another jelly filled. But that’s me.
And no I’m not a cop, but if you don’t them, next time your in trouble call a hippie
I don’t know if I would say the cops had a RIGHT to come and question SEASNAKE's. I just think these were some cops using their personal knowledge of the areas autos to catch the person driving around like an ass before someone get killed.
Imagine a post were we’re praising some cops, that were on the ball, and catch some guy that ran over a little girl. Because the cops recalled where the bright green Honda with gold wheels and a NOS tank in the back lived. The cops took a shot and went to the guys house and caught him in his garage picking the little girls hair and blood out of his grill and now he’s in jail off the street.
I think we all need to give these cops a break. I know it take a certain type of personality to ever want to be a cop in the first place and they love the badge and all the power that comes with it. But thank God someone is willing to do it. I know “ for me” there’s no government perk or salary to get me to chase some armed crack addict down some dark ally in the middle of the night. These guys spend their 40 hour each week dealing with the worst type of people, day in and day out.
I think SEASNAKE's did the right thing. I would have thanked the cop for being on the ball and not just going back to the coffee shop for another jelly filled. But that’s me.
And no I’m not a cop, but if you don’t them, next time your in trouble call a hippie
gthomas
Enthusiast
They chased a viper, they did not think it was SEASNAKE's. It got away, and then they went to someones house who owns one a viper.
But they had more info than just a type/color of vehicle. The logo would be enough to go check talk to plumbing companies, or a vehicle in the area.
But even if there was one in the area, at someone's house, it would not be probable cause enough to even search the vehicle.
Ask some questions, that's it. As I've said before, it is not illegal not to cooperate with the cops, only to lie to them.
And after you say 'it wasn't me', don't answer anything else, nor let them search the vehicle.
Or, if they had the van color, and a specific logo, yes, that would be probable cause if it was directly linked from a crime. But not just because someone saw it drive by the area.
If it was directly seen at the crime they could/would easily get a warrant, as there is probable cause.
But, if it was seen passing the crime scene only, that would not be enough for a warrant.
Now, if the cops had seen SEASNAKE's viper (red van), with his tag (plumbing logo), they would not have been asking him anything. He would have been arrested, and then he would have had to come up with evidence he didn't do it (my car is not in the garage, it must have been stolen). Then you are still viewed with suspicion until more evidence shows up (your car stripped/punks arrested in it)
They had no reason to believe it was SEASNAKE.
They had no information other than a dark colored viper. And that it got away. That's it.
And then some nut said someone owns one down the street, let's go look to see if it was him.
They had to make up scenarios with little information, and then attempt to try to make it work.
If the car had been warm, the cops in the 5 cruisers would have jumped him. PERIOD! Why do you need 5 cruisers if you suspect a vehicle was stolen?
HAHAHA, you have no idea how funny that is. Let's see, if it was an ENZO, sure. Or another rare car, but not one that has a high yearly production run.
But at 3am, yeah only if bodily injury/major property damage occured.
Let's see, if it was a Z06, would that be probable cause enough to visit all Z06 owners?
They didn't know it was a blue viper, only a dark colored one. And was it even a viper, it could've been an s2000. People confuse them all the time.
And then double talk from you. Let's see, 'Anarchist has a right to take your car for a spin in you would let them take it for a spin'.
cop: BANGING ON DOOR
me: roll out of bed at 3am
cop: we have reason to believe your car was stolen
me: let me go check
me: (after returning from garage) nope, it's still there. why exactly would you believe it was stolen?
cop: we chased a car with your tag number, can I come in to see if it is warm?
me: hmmm, if you were chasing a car with my tag on it you wouldn't be asking me these questions, you would have arrested me after I told you my car is still in the garage. Yes, you can check it, when you have a warrant. good night and thanks for waking me up at 3am.
me: slam door
Cop Magnet
Enthusiast
Yeah. That's called police work. How do you know they did not think it was SEASNAKE's?? A strong hunch is enough to come and ask, as Joe117 states. They pretense they use to get in is justified, at least according to the US Supreme Court.
Let's all just agree now that they never thought the car was stolen. So quit arguing it as a point in any further discussions (all of you).
How many Viper's can there be in that area? Where do you draw the line between a Viper (rare enough) and an Enzo (never seen one)? And what happens when the aforementioned "bodily injury" occurs and the police admit they never followed up on a solid hunch like "there's a guy down the street who has one".
In the end, no one has anything to complain about here. These guys were doing their job and doing it well. Stop complaining about loss of freedom and fascism, etc (earlier posts, not the one quoted). When they beat down your door, drag you out of bed, take you in even though your car is cold, slap your family around, interfere with you at work, or lock you up for good for arguing your "rights" -- then you can say hello to what it is like to live in the OTHER 75% of the world. Count your blessings and move on.
I'm no cop lover, but I've learned to live a peaceful coexistence as property and family have become more valuable to me. You need them to do exactly what they did more than they feel like doing it for fun. When they don't look out for you in a more serious way that truly involves the Bill of Rights, you can then complain away and feel justified in doing so. This is not an issue of that calibre.
Andrew/USPWR
Enthusiast
It was probably just Tom Session clearing the carbon out of a customers car anyhow
gthomas
Enthusiast
Deduction would also go like this: lights out at the house, cars in the driveway, people inside are probably sleeping.
A strong hunch is enough to ask, but not going to a house at an unreasonable hour where by all appearances the people are sleeping, and you have no proof of them even doing anything wrong. I know, they are trying to build a case, but you still have the benefit of the doubt.
While legal, the Supreme Court also has said you are not obligated to cooperate with the police.
That was my point in my first post, they were there to arrest him. NOW, what evidence did they have?
My post stated that if there were bodily injury/major property damage, that it would be expected that they would show up and ask question, ask to see the car, etc..
If I'm not mistaken, that would be a felony, merely running/evading is a misdemeanor.
I haven't said amything about fascism, loss of freedoms, etc.. That's someone else.
So if someone did this in a Z06, it would be alright if the police knocked on every Z06 owners door. NOPE!
If you have evidence, then go, if not, then wait until a reasonable hour.
Cop Magnet
Enthusiast
Wow, you are missing my point totally (and I acknowledged the loss of freedom/fascism wasn't directed at you). There is nowhere in the law that states police have to wait till a reasonable hour to do anything. I'm not even sure how to respond to that argument! They had enough probable cause to ASK to see the car, whether there were lights on or not (and how do you know there were cars in the driveway?). The owner LET them see the car. His choice, and it worked out for him. YOU can tell the police to kiss off, sure. I'll defend your right to do so, in fact, just as I'll defend the role of the police in making REASONABLE search and seizure. Also, they were not there to arrest him...they were there in force to arrest him IF evidence of guilt was found. It was not, and they left. That's the system working properly. By the way, I like your sig, especially part 2!
gthomas
Enthusiast
Maybe we are both missing each others points.
Yes, there is nothing that says they have to wait to a reasonable hour. But in saying that, they had no probable cause that it was even him.
Yes the owner gave permission, yadda yadda ya, but to me, there was no probable cause that he was even the culprit. Hence, they should not have bothered him.
I like your pics, especially #4.
Yes, there is nothing that says they have to wait to a reasonable hour. But in saying that, they had no probable cause that it was even him.
Yes the owner gave permission, yadda yadda ya, but to me, there was no probable cause that he was even the culprit. Hence, they should not have bothered him.
I like your pics, especially #4.
Cop Magnet
Enthusiast
We are missing each others points, and I will let it go after this. Probable cause applies to search and seizure, not a request even if founded only on a hunch. The police can "bother" you even without probable cause. By bother, I mean knock on your door and ask you something, not beat you over the head with a baton -- or search your premises. You can be ********** about being bothered, and even file a complaint, but you have not had your civil or constitutional rights violated.
Later!
Later!
DEADEYE
Viper Owner
Probable cause might be to strong of a term. Reasonable suspicion requires less of a standard than probable cause. I think the question is was the suspicion reasonable. If they can articulate that it was indeed reasonable, then that's all they lawfully need. A few posters on this thread are assuming the worst and suspect wrong intentions on the police but the police were only doing the same.
wow
Enthusiast
Bottom line Seasnake it happenned, very sorry it did. my opinion is that further pursuit of this will definitley make a target of you; loud exhaust, no front plate, etc. I would read the report however. They will look for you if pursued. Worth it?? only you can decide. my 2c.
gthomas
Enthusiast
This is what they were going to do to SEASNAKE.
Warfang
Enthusiast
Wow... talk about scarey. If you're checking to make sure that the cops aren't abusing their power to cover for a lack of intelligence to do policework, then you should be afraid? Wait, I thought cops were supposed to enforce the law... so if one or five of them broke a law or two, the guy looking into it should be worried? That's sick.
They will look for you if pursued? You know how evil that sounds? Policework should involve a sense of objectiveness. There's a reason justice wears a blindfold. Having your feelings hurt and further abusing your powers at the guy exercising his right to check you out is just plain stupid. We have EVERY right to make sure that cops aren't bs-ing their way to make arrests, and shouldn't be afraid that they will exact revenge on you for making sure they are doing their job right.
Just as we should have no problem showing them the car was cold, they should have no problem with any one of us checking to see if their story is true. Last I checked, it IS an open society.
Cop Magnet
Enthusiast
Where's Ab? I recall he had a story about a cop who felt other than objective...
Viperfreak2
Enthusiast
Gthomas that video was great. The whole point is you should always do what the police tell you to do (within reason). THEN when it gets on video and to court, a judge will decide. The woman in the video got what she deserved. They tell you to get off the phone and get out of the car, they mean it.
