SSpeed Racer
Enthusiast
Not sideways it had to be forward the thumping noise did not start till after the ABS light came on and I was on the brakes in a straight line.
ABS?? THEN WHY DO I HAVE A FLAT SPOT?
- Thread starter SSpeed Racer
- Start date
Leonard Knight
Enthusiast
I'd have the ABS checked out. On my 2001 they had to replace the module in the front for the same reason. Brakes worked but no ABS.
Ulysses
Enthusiast
Having ABS does not mean that you cannot lock them up.
your abs was not working- hence the flat spot.
i have never managed to get flat spots with abs-equipped cars? the pulsing is so fast that i dont think you can get enough friction to get flat spots. unleast you are going really really fast in which case even fast pulsing results in locked wheels for 10-15 yards at a time...
alex
02 gts
few other cars
i have never managed to get flat spots with abs-equipped cars? the pulsing is so fast that i dont think you can get enough friction to get flat spots. unleast you are going really really fast in which case even fast pulsing results in locked wheels for 10-15 yards at a time...
alex
02 gts
few other cars
GTS Dean
Enthusiast
You need better fluid and more airflow thru the wheel wells. Try some AP600 and report back. http://vca1.viperclub.org/ubb/Forum14/HTML/010536.html#6
Ulysses
Enthusiast
The Viper ABS system has a slight delay before it activates. About a second.
Beyond what Dean said, consider this:
ABS does pulse pretty quickly, on the brake, off the brake ... etc. But if you were going to lock them up without ABS, you are locking them up with ABS. Lock up, off the brake, lock up, off the brake, ... etc. At lower speeds, the result is no flat spot, at higher speeds, flat spots. This is magnified with the initial delay that is experienced when the pedal is first applied in a ABS situation.
Beyond what Dean said, consider this:
ABS does pulse pretty quickly, on the brake, off the brake ... etc. But if you were going to lock them up without ABS, you are locking them up with ABS. Lock up, off the brake, lock up, off the brake, ... etc. At lower speeds, the result is no flat spot, at higher speeds, flat spots. This is magnified with the initial delay that is experienced when the pedal is first applied in a ABS situation.
SSpeed Racer
Enthusiast
I have Motul in with has a pretty high boiling point. I just went to a new brake fluid that has a higher boing point than Motul and is less expensive and far less expensive than the Castrol.
Funny thing I did not even notice the tire locking up. There was no indication at all. Just a light on the dash and then no brakes!! I guess that's where that second come in to play.
I am going to have the system checked out. I remember earlier in my sessions that when I was hard straight line braking that the tires would skip but I thought that was a natural reaction to the abs. And I used that to its full potential!!!!
Funny thing I did not even notice the tire locking up. There was no indication at all. Just a light on the dash and then no brakes!! I guess that's where that second come in to play.
I am going to have the system checked out. I remember earlier in my sessions that when I was hard straight line braking that the tires would skip but I thought that was a natural reaction to the abs. And I used that to its full potential!!!!
Jake654321
Enthusiast
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May I ask which brake pads you were using. Factory, green stuff, etc?
ACR Larry
Enthusiast
JD,
Are you going to be at Willow Springs next week? If so, get that thing fixed before you smash into some unsuspecting granny driver like me on the track. Jenkins set me up with fresh Motul and the Porsche air deflectors. Maybe you better see him soon.
Larry
Are you going to be at Willow Springs next week? If so, get that thing fixed before you smash into some unsuspecting granny driver like me on the track. Jenkins set me up with fresh Motul and the Porsche air deflectors. Maybe you better see him soon.
Larry
K Adelberg
Enthusiast
Maybe its time to start driving your Impala again. The Viper is too much car for you.
John, after a point the stock brakes are just going to overheat regardless of fluid or ducting. I may be wrong, but I think by engaging the ABS all the time you are actully creating more heat. Proper threshold braking will result in shorter time on the brakes.
Time for a brake upgrade! Stop Tech to the rescue.
John, after a point the stock brakes are just going to overheat regardless of fluid or ducting. I may be wrong, but I think by engaging the ABS all the time you are actully creating more heat. Proper threshold braking will result in shorter time on the brakes.
Time for a brake upgrade! Stop Tech to the rescue.
SoCal Craig
Enthusiast
I agree with Ken. You need bigger/better brakes and a cooling duct kit. Glad you're okay.
SSpeed Racer
Enthusiast
Hey guys... I was a Buttonwillow this weekend to experience running Configuration 14 counter clockwise. I have run this track lots of time the Clockwise formation and have had great success...but this day was a disaster!!!
My first session I went off track BIG TIME from the esses into the sweeper and again in the buttonhook this is where I realized I had a problem.... going into the buttonhook I broke once at the kink lifted and then broke again in the straight except this time I had NO BRAKES!! Went straight off the track.
2nd session, I went out decided to focus and not go as fast...(yea right!) by the 4th lap I was entering Lost hills ready to brake and I had NO brakes... ( can you say pucker effect at 100mph)ABS light came on. I made it through the turn and noticed a thumping noise so I thought I had flat so I made it back to the pits checked.. no flat tire. Noticed that the caliper on the driver side was smoking BAD. I decided to cruse around the pits to cool the rotors down and the thumping was still there. Then I noticed the FLAT spot on the passenger front tire. It was all the way to the cords!!
I thought that by having ABS you would not be able to flat spot a tire?
How can this be??? anyone, anyone
Thanks for listening
My first session I went off track BIG TIME from the esses into the sweeper and again in the buttonhook this is where I realized I had a problem.... going into the buttonhook I broke once at the kink lifted and then broke again in the straight except this time I had NO BRAKES!! Went straight off the track.
2nd session, I went out decided to focus and not go as fast...(yea right!) by the 4th lap I was entering Lost hills ready to brake and I had NO brakes... ( can you say pucker effect at 100mph)ABS light came on. I made it through the turn and noticed a thumping noise so I thought I had flat so I made it back to the pits checked.. no flat tire. Noticed that the caliper on the driver side was smoking BAD. I decided to cruse around the pits to cool the rotors down and the thumping was still there. Then I noticed the FLAT spot on the passenger front tire. It was all the way to the cords!!
I thought that by having ABS you would not be able to flat spot a tire?
How can this be??? anyone, anyone
Thanks for listening
Magicboy2
Enthusiast
Perhaps the flat spot is not from sliding forward on the tire, but sideways?
Vic
VCA Venom Member
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Ken A., JD's signature line says he's already got the Stop Tech rotors, so are you recommending bigger calipers?
Brad Manhattan Beach
Viper Owner
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vic Rough:
Ken A., JD's signature line says he's already got the Stop Tech rotors, so are you recommending bigger calipers?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Vic:
Ken probably means that he should go to the 2 piece Aerorotor kit (at least for the fronts).
Brad
Ken A., JD's signature line says he's already got the Stop Tech rotors, so are you recommending bigger calipers?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Vic:
Ken probably means that he should go to the 2 piece Aerorotor kit (at least for the fronts).
Brad
SoCal Rebell
Enthusiast
Don't worry John I'll teach you how to drive that car next week at WSIR
. John uses Brakeman pads, for those who don't know him he's wicked fast on the track but is harder then anyone I know on brakes & rotors. I've been after him for quite a while to go to the Stoptech big brake package, well John do you think it's time?
BTW welcome to the Viper Flat Spot Club you get special membership because you had ABS unlike us 2000 and older owners.
BTW welcome to the Viper Flat Spot Club you get special membership because you had ABS unlike us 2000 and older owners.
SSpeed Racer
Enthusiast
Man... you come to this page for advise and you just get slammed!!! YIKES!!
Big brakes are what I am looking for but not yet.
Larry.. I will be there and the car will be fixed by then. I am looking at new calipers and they should be here by Monday. I will be ready.
Ken... The Impala huh... I'll tell you what I will bring out the Impala I will drive it for a few laps and I will let you drive... lets see who gets around the track the fastest!!!
But the I am still waiting on the 383 stroker to be built correctly.
Vic Yes he means the Stop tech system which is calipers and large 14" rotors.
My biggest question is will I ever fell a brake locking up?? Like I said i never felt it... is this common?
Flat Spot Regional Director!!!
Big brakes are what I am looking for but not yet.
Larry.. I will be there and the car will be fixed by then. I am looking at new calipers and they should be here by Monday. I will be ready.
Ken... The Impala huh... I'll tell you what I will bring out the Impala I will drive it for a few laps and I will let you drive... lets see who gets around the track the fastest!!!
But the I am still waiting on the 383 stroker to be built correctly.
Vic Yes he means the Stop tech system which is calipers and large 14" rotors.
My biggest question is will I ever fell a brake locking up?? Like I said i never felt it... is this common?
Flat Spot Regional Director!!!
luc
Enthusiast
John,
are you still on street tires?
Yes,you should feel a brake/tire locking up,at least if it is for more than a fraction of a second.
Without arguing the + side of ABS,especially in the rain,my opinion is that they don't belong on a race car.
Goingt fast on a race track is all about car control and being SMOOTH.
When you have ABS and you can brake as hard that you want without the risk of locking up tires,you don't learn about brake modulation,treshold braking and weight transfer as well than on a non ABS car.
Also as the ABS valve open and close to relieve caliper fluid pressure,you loose some of the feel of what a brake pedal can tell you about your car handling,traction,etc.
John, be carefull, you are a good driver and are starting to go faster and faster,you are pushing the limits of a stock Viper and should think about some better safety equipment,roll cage,fire sysyem,etc.
Basically you are reaching a point where a street car used as a race car become a compromise.
Take care.
Luc.
are you still on street tires?
Yes,you should feel a brake/tire locking up,at least if it is for more than a fraction of a second.
Without arguing the + side of ABS,especially in the rain,my opinion is that they don't belong on a race car.
Goingt fast on a race track is all about car control and being SMOOTH.
When you have ABS and you can brake as hard that you want without the risk of locking up tires,you don't learn about brake modulation,treshold braking and weight transfer as well than on a non ABS car.
Also as the ABS valve open and close to relieve caliper fluid pressure,you loose some of the feel of what a brake pedal can tell you about your car handling,traction,etc.
John, be carefull, you are a good driver and are starting to go faster and faster,you are pushing the limits of a stock Viper and should think about some better safety equipment,roll cage,fire sysyem,etc.
Basically you are reaching a point where a street car used as a race car become a compromise.
Take care.
Luc.
Andrew2KRT10
Enthusiast
I have locked up many ABS cars, most recently in my Dakota, and I have been in many ABS cars that have lost thier brakes. So, it does happen.
